Beef General Thread

moy83 · 20-08-2014 10:57PM

Just a thought on KO weight and its restrictions , why dont Bord Bia run a campaign telling people that they can cut a steak in half or freeze half a big roast for a dinner in the middle of the week after the Sunday roast ?
****e like these conformity expectations and buy exactly what we want when ever we want it are the kind of reasons that has fruit and veg growers under pressure from supermarkets on price and why they end up dumping perfectly good produce because it doesn't look like a picture some advertising executive saw in a picture of said fruit and veg !
Will it get to a stage where a carcass will be rejected because the steaks don't match the template they have ?

I hope people see some real hunger that will make them appreciate a lump of meat when they get it .

We are supposed to have cattle that are fed on nice natural grass that can't be done in most countries yet we can't seem to sell it for **** all more than cattle loaded with growth promoters and packed into a feedlot and stuffed with cheap ould byproducts .

rangler1 · 20-08-2014 11:04PM

Base price wrote: »

I never made any reference to county officers and I wonder why you do??
I do however reckon that the IFA is hurting financially due to decreased levies collected from the EIF scheme. It is only logical and I base that logic on the number of posters on this very forum who stated that they have instructed the factories not to deduct same from their cattle. I presume there is a simular sentiment Nationwide and it is not difficult to extrapolate the figures.

In my opinion the break off groups have at least done more that I have and I commend them for that. They have gathered together in numbers, voiced their opinion, disgust and disapproval and they have been heard. They have also put it up to the IFA that we, the hands on farmers, are the IFA, not someone employed in Farm Centre or Brussles yanking our chains.

What other reason could there be for begrudging the levy.....I wonder
Do you think that Eddie Downey, Henry Burns or any of the rest of us on national exec are not hands on farmers....... we're not employed by IFA.
Electing farmers on to commitees and then not bothering to support them...that is the scuttling of every farm organisation.
If they're not making the right decisions, why did you elect them...and if they are making the right decision then why aren't they supported.
Could it be that it's just easier to criticise IFA than do anything yourselves:eek::eek: I can assure you I won't be cannon fodder and there's no one yanking my chain:cool:

just do it · 20-08-2014 11:18PM

moy83 wrote: »

We are supposed to have cattle that are fed on nice natural grass that can't be done in most countries yet we can't seem to sell it for **** all more than cattle loaded with growth promoters and packed into a feedlot and stuffed with cheap ould byproducts .

Bord Bia has done research that shows customers when asked say they look for things like country of origin, organic etc etc. But then when they assessed their buying habits it all boils down to one thing only... price

Robson99 · 20-08-2014 11:20PM

rangler1 wrote: »

What other reason could there be for begrudging the levy.....I wonder
Do you think that Eddie Downey, Henry Burns or any of the rest of us on national exec are not hands on farmers....... we're not employed by IFA.
Electing farmers on to commitees and then not bothering to support them...that is the scuttling of every farm organisation.
If they're not making the right decisions, why did you elect them...and if they are making the right decision then why aren't they supported.
Could it be that it's just easier to criticise IFA than do anything yourselves:eek::eek: I can assure you I won't be cannon fodder and there's no one yanking my chain:cool:

I pay membership to the Ifa.I get 75 Euro Discount from fbd and a night away for the missus. That is all I get out of the Ifa. I stopped the deduction they were taking at the factory as its an outrageous conflict of interest and they are doing absolutely nothing for me or any beef farmer. You are right I am better off doing something myself

TUBBY · 20-08-2014 11:29PM

The big news though is the reduction to 14mth for bulls. Surely this isn't viable as there isn't a hope in hell ya get a continental bull to fat score 2+ or better in 12 months. where was the warning for this.
i thought this round table ****e was to stop surprises like this crop up.

this is definitely another huge nail in an already well secured coffin. Looking at this and the factory price thread, when was the last positive post. It is reflective of the mood in beef.

Q. Dairy farmer next door roaring for land at 160 an acre and he minds it too or the other option is i stay at this crap.
all day long answer should be talk to dairy farmer. Problem is that's not what will happen.... Who is the fool then.

moy83 · 20-08-2014 11:31PM

just do it wrote: »

Bord Bia has done research that shows customers when asked say they look for things like country of origin, organic etc etc. But then when they assessed their buying habits it all boils down to one thing only... price

Aren't they great ! Any tool watching people in a supermarket can tell that customers are mostly concerned about the price they are paying
What im saying is BB should be teaching people how to extract value from our good quality beef and not telling farmers that the chops are a bit big or the fat is too yellow or he is a week over 30 mths so dont expect much money for that ould pensioner of a bullock .
From what I can see BB just puts a feel good label on a package of meat for the consumer and make up a load of mostly irrelevant rules that the factories use to beat cattle prices down with

coolshannagh28 · 20-08-2014 11:49PM

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

Processors intend to finish only the amount of cattle that are needed to control market. Understand that there was serious health issues with calves they bough this spring that is why they offloaded them to the idiots that bought them. If you have to pay for labour and shed costs it is unviable to rear calves to beef in any sort of intensive rate with out access to byproducts and definately not dairy or dairy cross calves

Processors are ahead of farmers demand is for smaller carcasses with a traditional breed label Ireland is full of continental cattle which the premium market doesn't want ,they will finish them at a loss until farmers cop on and make the structural changes I alluded to , processors do have access to byproducts and bear in mind they don't have to finish at farmers cost to make a profit .

Miname · 20-08-2014 11:50PM

could be off here but larrys playing the long game, hereford and angus to get rid of exporters, no bulls so all bullocks, not what the exporters want. tie all the farmerss up in knots for a few weeks, drop the arse out of weanlings buy in cheap just before the shortage comes so he has a back up for down the line and do it all again.
A lot of the part-timers arent going too bother with trying to push things next year, id say. theyll still have the ground and next spring want to put something on it so probably buy a heap of cheap bucket feds and give us all another glut in a few years.
Cattle have to be getting scarce, is he just getting the base down as low as possable before the rise. Nomad cattle and all that muck, there wont be a thing heard about it in a couple of months as their running out fast in Britain.

rangler1 · 21-08-2014 04:12AM

oldsmokey wrote: »

None of this seemed to trouble the lads milling around the Dawn and (i think) ABP tents at the Tullamore show...the brazen hoors were there in their glory knocking out free nasty tay and coffee, and there was no shortage of smiley happy farmers scoffing away..I couldn't believe my eyes.
I tore a strip off some young fella about the price they were paying for cattle, he got the helluva hop...I was obviously the only old whinging crank in the tent all day...
Someone said Larry was there too...unbelievable, the cheek...

We ran a meeting and invited the factories, over 100 farmers came, not one of them opened their mouth on the night, one farmer even shook hands with Padraig Browne as he was passing the front row.......I just said ffs and all the bs IFA take.
No one going to protests, no one will attack factory reps and now drinking tea with them in tullamore....

_Brian · 21-08-2014 07:52AM

rangler1 wrote: »

We ran a meeting and invited the factories, over 100 farmers came, not one of them opened their mouth on the night, one farmer even shook hands with Padraig Browne as he was passing the front row.......I just said ffs and all the bs IFA take.
No one going to protests, no one will attack factory reps and now drinking tea with them in tullamore....

What's the point in paying fees and the organisation lifting subs of killed cattle and milk too. And then slating the members for not speaking out to the factory reps.

No point in having a dog and barking yourself !!

Muckit · 21-08-2014 08:31AM

moy83 wrote: »

Aren't they great ! Any tool watching people in a supermarket can tell that customers are mostly concerned about the price they are paying
What im saying is BB should be teaching people how to extract value from our good quality beef and not telling farmers that the chops are a bit big or the fat is too yellow or he is a week over 30 mths so dont expect much money for that ould pensioner of a bullock .
From what I can see BB just puts a feel good label on a package of meat for the consumer and make up a load of mostly irrelevant rules that the factories use to beat cattle prices down with

I totally agree Moy. It's all in how it's presented. Puds in one of his last postings threw out some interesting facts also.... Beef is not as efficient to produce as chicken, pork etc.

Dah customers, it is a different product!
Beef, regardless of country of origin, will always be a premium product. It has to be because of the length of time it takes to rear it and the animals efficiencies at converting what it eats into meat. There is no miracle fast or cheap way to do it. Customers will have to make up their minds that they either want a little of a premium product eveey now and then or they do without. Which is fine too. 'Grass fed' beef is the creme de la creme. It is what we produce in this small country of ours. Why try cheapen a premium product?

Puds often throws out the one that you first make a plastic tray a certain size and then follow the ludicrous idea of trying to produce an animal who's meat cuts fit that tray! In his defence he's only churning back out what bb, tesco and the likes are trying to promote.

But here's the thing. A Steak as a single serving per person is old hat thinking.
Chopped up in thin strips and incorporated into a beef stir fry, one steak will feed 3+ people. I seen Kevin Dundon on tv, cook and claim one steak would feed a whole family!! (And it probably would depending on the steak!)

And here's the other thing. Steaks only make up a fraction of the total meat yield of the animal. Roasts, stewing pieces, mince etc make up much more. All these are even easier to portion control. God look at the Italians and rheir parma ham. The small thin slivers in a pack. You could throw the whole lot down your gob in the blink of an eye!!

If you aren't into all that new fangaled stir fry stuff, take a knife from your block and cut a big steak in two!! It'll still taste the same l guarantee you!

Perhaps l could see for restaurants that a whole steak per serving would be preferable, purely from a preconceived asthestics point of view, but there again in another way what would be wrong with half a steak? Roast half duck anyone?

onyerbikepat · 21-08-2014 08:52AM

I really think we need to get going with the whole 'Irish Beef' label. Similar to what Soctland did. Really push Irish Beef for what it is, a top quality grass fed, outdoor raised product, free of artificial hormones, antibiotics etc etc.
It really is a shame to see such a good product as Irish Beef being treated as little more than dogfood at the moment.

whelan2 · 21-08-2014 08:57AM

onyerbikepat wrote: »

I really think we need to get going with the whole 'Irish Beef' label. Similar to what Soctland did. Really push Irish Beef for what it is, a top quality grass fed, outdoor raised product, free of artificial hormones, antibiotics etc etc.
It really is a shame to see such a good product as Irish Beef being treated as little more than dogfood at the moment.

i think aldi are already doing a very good job on this.Plenty of advertising and in your face labels on meat products there.

Willfarman · 21-08-2014 09:13AM

rangler1 wrote: »

We ran a meeting and invited the factories, over 100 farmers came, not one of them opened their mouth on the night, one farmer even shook hands with Padraig Browne as he was passing the front row.......I just said ffs and all the bs IFA take.
No one going to protests, no one will attack factory reps and now drinking tea with them in tullamore....

It's not a simple one to solve. An oldish bachelor farmer in my locality went with an ifa delegation a local factory to talk to the manager and procurement agents about prices at the time.
It got heated. He said very little ,but one head the ball lost the plot and gave a big rant.

This farmer buys a nice few top qaulity Charolais bullocks and sets the bar in the local mart for these types. He gets them onto enormous weights.

Every time he contacted his agent for this local factory since they were "full"

I said · 21-08-2014 09:33AM

whelan2 wrote: »

i think aldi are already doing a very good job on this.Plenty of advertising and in your face labels on meat products there.

Dunnes are doing that with AA steaks in the black packaging.

jt65 · 21-08-2014 09:39AM

Mac Taylor wrote: »

Ladies & gentleman, I have no problem with anyone giving out or defending the ifa but can we actual concentrate on the problem in hand. We've been over and over the pros and cons of the ifa. We don't need another thread going down this route:eek:

again performance from our Mods. & I got a warning via pm for trolling in another thread

_Brian · 21-08-2014 09:46AM

I think there is too much flux in the beef market at the moment to be sure on one's next move, we're not in a position to go dairy.. We're taking the line of holding on with smaller numbers next year than this and previous years.

Banking money rather than using all to restock.. that way the land and the money will be there to stock up again if better prospects abound, not what we want but running to stand still is frustrating when we could stroll to stand still.

Robson99 · 21-08-2014 10:08AM

Muckit wrote: »

I totally agree Moy. It's all in how it's presented. Puds in one of his last postings threw out some interesting facts also.... Beef is not as efficient to produce as chicken, pork etc.

Dah customers, it is a different product!
Beef, regardless of country of origin, will always be a premium product. It has to be because of the length of time it takes to rear it and the animals efficiencies at converting what it eats into meat. There is no miracle fast or cheap way to do it. Customers will have to make up their minds that they either want a little of a premium product eveey now and then or they do without. Which is fine too. 'Grass fed' beef is the creme de la creme. It is what we produce in this small country of ours. Why try cheapen a premium product?

Puds often throws out the one that you first make a plastic tray a certain size and then follow the ludicrous idea of trying to produce an animal who's meat cuts fit that tray! In his defence he's only churning back out what bb, tesco and the likes are trying to promote.

But here's the thing. A Steak as a single serving per person is old hat thinking.
Chopped up in thin strips and incorporated into a beef stir fry, one steak will feed 3+ people. I seen Kevin Dundon on tv, cook and claim one steak would feed a whole family!! (And it probably would depending on the steak!)

And here's the other thing. Steaks only make up a fraction of the total meat yield of the animal. Roasts, stewing pieces, mince etc make up much more. All these are even easier to portion control. God look at the Italians and rheir parma ham. The small thin slivers in a pack. You could throw the whole lot down your gob in the blink of an eye!!

If you aren't into all that new fangaled stir fry stuff, take a knife from your block and cut a big steak in two!! It'll still taste the same l guarantee you!

Perhaps l could see for restaurants that a whole steak per serving would be preferable, purely from a preconceived asthestics point of view, but there again in another way what would be wrong with half a steak? Roast half duck anyone?

Excellent points muckit. Surely it cant be too hard to cut some meat with a knife. Should be in their interests to sell a bigger piece as cheaper to process. Also how many are actually buying a small piece of steak to feed one?? You can buy a bigger size of everything at a better cost per kg or litre

_Brian · 21-08-2014 10:17AM

Robson99 wrote: »

Excellent points muckit. Surely it cant be too hard to cut some meat with a knife. Should be in their interests to sell a bigger piece as cheaper to process. Also how many are actually buying a small piece of steak to feed one?? You can buy a bigger size of everything at a better cost per kg or litre

I agree... When we do have steak I want it so big it looks like it was cut off a woolly mammoth

, for the kids we buy a big steak and cut it in half !!

whelan2 · 21-08-2014 11:22AM

Robson99 wrote: »

I pay membership to the Ifa.I get 75 Euro Discount from fbd and a night away for the missus. That is all I get out of the Ifa. I stopped the deduction they were taking at the factory as its an outrageous conflict of interest and they are doing absolutely nothing for me or any beef farmer. You are right I am better off doing something myself

WOULD it be an idea to increase the yearly subscription fee and scrap the factory levies? That way the hold the factories/creameries have over price etc might be reduced.

Damo810 · 21-08-2014 11:52AM

whelan2 wrote: »

WOULD it be an idea to increase the yearly subscription fee and scrap the factory levies? That way the hold the factories/creameries have over price etc might be reduced.

What hold? The problem isn't the levies..The problem is that a number of prominent IFA and ex Ifa are in bed with Goodman and co.

I don't see what the Ifa can do here though? The factories are a private industry, they're going to keep trying to get their raw materials as cheap as possible, just like we as farmers do. We're the gobeens that keep supplying them though. Protesting will do no good..

whelan2 · 21-08-2014 01:07PM

Damo810 wrote: »

What hold? The problem isn't the levies..The problem is that a number of prominent IFA and ex Ifa are in bed with Goodman and co.

I don't see what the Ifa can do here though? The factories are a private industry, they're going to keep trying to get their raw materials as cheap as possible, just like we as farmers do. We're the gobeens that keep supplying them though. Protesting will do no good..

the hold that they will stop facilitating the ifa or what ever levies

Farmer Pudsey · 21-08-2014 01:35PM

Robson99 wrote: »

Excellent points muckit. Surely it cant be too hard to cut some meat with a knife. Should be in their interests to sell a bigger piece as cheaper to process. Also how many are actually buying a small piece of steak to feed one?? You can buy a bigger size of everything at a better cost per kg or litre

Sirloin is not the issue no body minds splitting a sirloin steak into two or three. The issue is Striploin and T-bones nobody wants a steak that needs to be cut in two. I think a lot of people have no concept of large steaks. In general Irish butchers kill heifers that grade O=/O+, and are 400-450kgs liveweight and kill 180-230kgs. In general an Irish butcher will not touch an animal over 450kgs.

So in general we have no conception of a steak off a 400kg animal or a roast of such an animal. People in general buy and eat the first bite with there eyes, that is the reality.

The real issue is that even when we produce cattle to spec the factory's penalise those cattle. The do not pay the premium price attached to those cattle.

Looking at the Rag today the The price of beef in the US and the UK is on par at 4.2/kg. Irish R grade steers are at 3.62/kg. Yes German and Netherlands are below us for young bulls, however the rest of Europe is 3.9/kg.

However the real Irony is the amount of cheap beef the factory's are processing, Fresian bulls are back at 3.2/kg, heavy bullocks suitable for the Italian and contenintal european markets are back at 3.6/kg and less. However where is the premium for lighter steers and heifers that make spec.

just do it · 21-08-2014 01:46PM

It's s**t being a price taker isn't it?

6 years of hard graft here turning this farm around. Huge investment (both money and time )in infrastructure, reseeding, paddock grazing, AI breeding. Finally I've a number of quality weanlings this autumn at good weights and I'll struggle to get, what, €900 average for them. And I'm supposedly intelligent!

Reggie. · 21-08-2014 01:52PM

just do it wrote: »

It's s**t being a price taker isn't it?

6 years of hard graft here turning this farm around. Huge investment (both money and time )in infrastructure, reseeding, paddock grazing, AI breeding. Finally I've a number of quality weanlings this autumn at good weights and I'll struggle to get, what, €900 average for them. And I'm supposedly intelligent!

Morale sapping alright

Charliebull · 21-08-2014 02:09PM

just do it wrote: »

It's s**t being a price taker isn't it?

6 years of hard graft here turning this farm around. Huge investment (both money and time )in infrastructure, reseeding, paddock grazing, AI breeding. Finally I've a number of quality weanlings this autumn at good weights and I'll struggle to get, what, €900 average for them. And I'm supposedly intelligent!

there is a few of us in that boat JDI, and not to p!ss you off even more but id lower that average figure by another €100

_Brian · 21-08-2014 02:18PM

just do it wrote: »

It's s**t being a price taker isn't it?

6 years of hard graft here turning this farm around. Huge investment (both money and time )in infrastructure, reseeding, paddock grazing, AI breeding. Finally I've a number of quality weanlings this autumn at good weights and I'll struggle to get, what, €900 average for them. And I'm supposedly intelligent!

In fairness the dairy lads took a whipping in recent years and yet this year was healthy enough...
Really all we can do is pear back on spending and ride it out and see what comes down the line..
Its not nice but what else can be done? I was talking with a dairy man after 2012 and he said for the year he was loosing 5-8c on every litre produced, however he looked on success on a five year average and was happy enough with his lot.

The sickener about this problem is that its not bad weather etc but its been engineered into the system by the processors just to squeeze more profit for themselves and **** everyone down the line !!

manjou · 21-08-2014 02:54PM

Sold cow to factory last week got 334 for r and exactly 12 months ago sold cows to same factory and only got 340 for o so not much difference and this tell you that all they are interested in is manufactoring beef and not too worried about steaks etc.

onyerbikepat · 21-08-2014 04:20PM

If Irish prices go that low, exporters will be busy bigtime with weanlings. Now as things are, they have a certain capacity to ship so many per week. Might make sense to hit the sales either earlier or later from the peak periods of October/ November.

JDI, whatever about part-time farmers loosing money, spare a though for the full-time guys who were say, struggling even in good times. How will they survive?

_Brian · 21-08-2014 04:28PM

onyerbikepat wrote: »

If Irish prices go that low, exporters will be busy bigtime with weanlings. Now as things are, they have a certain capacity to ship so many per week. Might make sense to hit the sales either earlier or later from the peak periods of October/ November.

JDI, whatever about part-time farmers loosing money, spare a though for the full-time guys who were say, struggling even in good times. How will they survive?

Disgusting as it is mostly lads who will make a living at the moment are lads with sufficient SFP to run their households. From a farm perspective they need break even leaving the SFP 100% for their family. My only thoughts on this are they should deliver only the minimum beef into the system while its break-even as it does nobody any favor to produce the product with no profit..

Beef General Thread

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