72% believe suicide to be morally unacceptable, do you agree?

so selfish to be ill, ye, sure it is ¬_¬


Unfortunately I see that kind of mentality a lot especially in rural Ireland. The statistics for this country definitely don't reflect the reality, not even close. I know of so so many people now that suffer from mental illness, and those are only the ones that I know about, considering how many people keep it quiet, there has to be so many more, it's really frightening how bad it's getting tbh. And it's definitely something that's extremely shameful still, I see that in my own family, the idea of someone having depression is laughable to them, it's always dismissed. I was in the hospital before after a panic attack and the doctors asked my parents in front of me......if I ever suffer from stress, to which my mother instantly quips no with a sorta you have to be kidding me type tone. Lots of medical professionals are as clueless as everyone else. I was maybe 20/21 so why ask my parents! And then to also ask me in front of them, to which I of course said no ¬_¬ And continued to suffer. Then there was some guy beside me who had attempted suicide, the doctor was making no attempt to be discrete talking to him, just zero empathy, saying things like.....you regret it now though don't you, guilt-tripping the poor guy, I couldn't believe what I was hearing.

72% of people can stick their 'morally unacceptable' up their ar*%s in my opinion!

The thing about depression and having suicidal thoughts, is that you don't truly understand what it's like until you have had it. I would bet that the 72% here never experienced it

It's not about being sad, but everything in your life seems bad, even the good things seem bad. You don't see any reason to go on, you think you're doing everyone a favor by going, or you think nobody cares either way. It's such a scary thing

^I appreciate the honesty in your post.

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

Most us don't truly understand depression. I for one hold my hands up and admit I have sometimes wondered why people let themselves get to that point or how it could be so hard to ask for help.

Well, for a start, it's not necessarily a choice that you have. The slide can be imperceptibly gradual. I've sometimes woken up and had a realisation that I was now in a very bad place and had been getting worse for months without even realising it. Whether you can then do anything about it, well everyone's different. Asking for help is a more or less difficult thing depending on not just the person, but the state they're in, their environment, how supportive their friends and family are etc. there's a tonne of factors. I asked for help twice in twenty years. I'm in a relatively healthy place now and know that that was dumb of me. But I know myself well enough to know that when in the depths of depression I don't have much control over myself at all. You can very often feel like a passenger, along for the ride, and feel pretty damn trapped and unable to do anything about it. Asking for help can be a monumental task. The few times I've been actively suicidal (thankfully a long time ago now) I remember feeling very clear and sure that I was at that moment in control, for the first time in many months, and that killing myself was the quickest best way of taking control and ending this awful nightmare of being a passenger with little or no say in what was happening to me. Thankfully I snapped out of it, but I can only see how deluded I was from this distance and position of relative health.

Everyone's individual experience of depression and suicidal feelings will be different as well. You can't just look these things up in a dictionary or psychiatrist's handbook and say they're all the same and that the words on the page represent accurately what happens in every case. Everyone's different, everyone is affected by it and deals with it differently. There's no easy cure. But when you know people who are depressed, it can be very helpful just to let them know you're willing to listen if they want to talk, whether you understand them or not.

RoboRat wrote: »

People don't or can't seem to understand that depression is an illness, it's not a state of mind that people can click their fingers and snap out of it. Like most illnesses if left untreated, it can lead to death.

Put it this way, if you had a finger that was so painful it was driving you insane and all you needed to do was to cut it off, most people would do so. Unless you have been down to the bottom of the well, you have no idea of how horrible and dark a place it is and how much you just want it to stop.

No, but nor is it untreatable or a life long problem. At least, it doesn't have to be a life long problem and I think the fact that it's often presented that it is, is one of the reasons that there's so many sufferers.
I also find the idea of suicide being brave kinda scary. Surely that's just shutting the door of treatment or help even further and highlighting the road to actually committing suicide. We have a problem with suicide and depression in this country, and I don't think idolising sufferers is going to help it.

Please note, none of this means I think we should stigmatise it, nor that I think people should click there fingers or get over it, nor that I think it's easy to get over, nor do I think that people aren't doing enough or anything like that. There is a long road to recovery but it can be done. It just takes finding out what it is that works and completely subscribing to the idea that it can be done. I really think telling people otherwise, and telling them they're brave for committing suicide, is completely counterproductive in tackling the problem.

People who say Suicide is a sin and the person committing it sent to hell can go **** themselves...

Brain washed morons of a text inserted by the governments of old... because a dead person isn't a tax paying / working person.

No, but nor is it untreatable or a life long problem. At least, it doesn't have to be a life long problem and I think the fact that it's often presented that it is, is one of the reasons that there's so many sufferers.

Define lifelong problem? Cancer sufferers go into remission but may never get rid of the cancer and at any time it can remerge worse than before. Depression is the same, I know as I am on medication for the last 4 years. Yes, I am doing my level best but sometimes for no apparent reason, life gets extremely dark and I cannot paraphrase the thoughts that go through my head.

I also find the idea of suicide being brave kinda scary.

I don't think anybody says its brave but its not cowardly either. Just because somebody disagrees that it is a cowardly thing to do doesn't mean they think its brave. I had a very close uncle commit suicide, I saw him go from the life and soul of the party to being an absolute shell of a man. The only time in the 2 years that he went back to his old self was the day before he hung himself, obviously he had made his mind up and he was finally free.

There is a long road to recovery but it can be done. It just takes finding out what it is that works and completely subscribing to the idea that it can be done.

There is not always a cure, just like there are a variety of illnesses that have no cure and when you add the complexity of the brain into the mix, its far far more complex. Do you honestly think that all people who are suffering just decide to give up? They don't, the fight tooth and nail to try and fix the situation and sometimes it can't be fixed.

I can honestly say with everything I have that depression can be cured.

I'm happy for you but just because you have been cured doesn't mean that everybody can be cured. Depression is caused by different things, some physical deficiencies, some mental issues, some environmental issues and no case is the same as everybody is different.

Some people may make an alteration that will ensure it never happens, others will have to deal with it for life, regardless of what treatment they undergo so therefore, it can be a life long problem.

mickstupp wrote: »

^I appreciate the honesty in your post.

Well, for a start, it's not necessarily a choice that you have. The slide can be imperceptibly gradual. I've sometimes woken up and had a realisation that I was now in a very bad place and had been getting worse for months without even realising it. Whether you can then do anything about it, well everyone's different. Asking for help is a more or less difficult thing depending on not just the person, but the state they're in, their environment, how supportive their friends and family are etc. there's a tonne of factors. I asked for help twice in twenty years. I'm in a relatively healthy place now and know that that was dumb of me. But I know myself well enough to know that when in the depths of depression I don't have much control over myself at all. You can very often feel like a passenger, along for the ride, and feel pretty damn trapped and unable to do anything about it. Asking for help can be a monumental task. The few times I've been actively suicidal (thankfully a long time ago now) I remember feeling very clear and sure that I was at that moment in control, for the first time in many months, and that killing myself was the quickest best way of taking control and ending this awful nightmare of being a passenger with little or no say in what was happening to me. Thankfully I snapped out of it, but I can only see how deluded I was from this distance and position of relative health.

Everyone's individual experience of depression and suicidal feelings will be different as well. You can't just look these things up in a dictionary or psychiatrist's handbook and say they're all the same and that the words on the page represent accurately what happens in every case. Everyone's different, everyone is affected by it and deals with it differently. There's no easy cure. But when you know people who are depressed, it can be very helpful just to let them know you're willing to listen if they want to talk, whether you understand them or not.

I'm sorry you had to go through all that and I'm glad you've come through it.

I always feel honesty is best when talking about sensitive subjects like this,

I just wanted to get the point across that in the same as we are too quick to judge those with mental illness I think we can be a little to quick to judge those who don't understand them and think they are somehow easy to seek help for and cure.

I certainly would never think anyone is selfish or morally wrong for taking their own life but I'd be slow to judge anyone who thinks so.

If you've never experience mental illness how can you be expected to fully understand it?

SeaDaily wrote: »

72% of people must not understand depression.

I doubt 2% of people understand depression, sadly.

P_1 wrote: »

I'm not knocking you or anything but I think the word you're looking for is 'managed' rather than 'cured'.

To give an example, I'm a Type 1 Diabetic, there's no known cure for Diabetes but with the right balance of medication, exercise and diet you wouldn't think there was anything wrong with me. In fact I'd contend that there's nothing wrong with me. I think you can make a similar argument for depression.

No, I mean cured

With all due respect, why do we ignore the possibilty that he/she just made a decision, the decision that they wanted to die. I know in the recent Robin Williams case there is evidence more was at play but in general cases of suicides why do we never speak about that fact that maybe some people just want to die?

I would say a LOT of people certainly more than we think actually want to make that choice, and they are not ill or diseased, they have made that decision after a lot of thought.

One selfish aspect of suicide... when somebody jumps in front of a train. They don't think about the poor driver who has to witness and feel that. Careers have ruined, and in turn, relationships. It happens far too frequently.