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Israel - Palestine Conflict. **Mod note in OP - updated 1st August**

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Comments

  • #3092
    WakeUp
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,823 ✭✭✭WakeUp


    Kertrada wrote: »
    I would boycott both Israel and Hamas politically, not one over the other.
    Is your peace dove blind to some terrorism and not others ?

    nope I've no time for Hamas rockets. I prefer diesel over petrol myself though both could potentially work . leave the books and the crayons alone. and the wedding cakes.


  • #3093
    Brown Bomber
    Site Banned Posts: 8,331 ✭✭✭Brown Bomber


    Kertrada wrote: »
    I don't believe either Israel or Gazza are terrorist states, or their citizens are, just because terrorists may currently be in charge of a country.
    By that logic I don't Believe the Islamic Caliphate of Iraq and the Levant (or whatever it's called) is a terrorist entity just because some lunatics are running the show.


    You are conflating all of the people with the State when they are two different entities entirely.


  • #3094
    Kertrada
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 50 ✭✭Kertrada


    Brown Bomber wrote: »
    You are conflating all of the people with the State when they are two different entities entirely.

    Actually you were. I don't think one set of terrorism and terrorists is better than another, while innocent civilians on any side suffer.


  • #3095
    Son Of A Vidic
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,370 ✭✭✭✭Son Of A Vidic


    speedboatchase wrote: »
    How do you have dialogue with a group who's stated aim to wipe you from the fact of the Earth? What do you want Israel to do? And please be realistic here. You can all moan but tell me a realistic aim.

    I am terribly sorry that the 'moaning' and highlighting of the barbarity in Gaza, is upsetting your sensibilities. But nobody asked you to come into this thread. I suppose we can be thankful that you cannot censor the thread. But speaking of the Hamas charter? Have you updated yourself on what the hate filled ideology of Zionism is about?

    You also ask what is Israel to do? Another question I already answered here....
    Corvus Maximus wrote: »
    No, the alternative for Israel is to join the civilised world and to learn the art of dialogue and diplomacy. I mean how else can it uphold its claim, that it is a bastion of democracy in the Middle East? Isn't a democratic, a civilised nation supposed to lead by example? Doesn't the primitive savagery displayed by its army in Gaza, run contrary to the actions of a civilised democracy?


    What more is there to add? There is no justification for the behaviour of IDF. But in fairness, I suppose their regime has no interest in peace and in that regard they are consistent.

    Sadly, hate breeds hate, without Zionism and the decades long persecution of the Palestinian people, Hamas does not exist. But unfortunately they do exist and decades of aggressive Zionist polices are to blame. I'm not going to treat a symptom of cancer for making my patient ill. I''m going to blame the cancer and eradicate it. I want rid of the cancer and its symptoms. Or in the case of Palestine & Israel, I want rid of the political and military forces of Zionism and all groups like Hamas.

    speedboatchase wrote: »
    Are you a military general now? Define "use it effectively", please. By the way, is this response your way of saying that Hamas does not keep its weapons in the vicinity of schools and hospitals? You might be in for a shock.

    So now you've jumped onto military generals? And I also see you’re trying to say something I never said. I've already told you that the IDF have been provided with some of the most hi-tech military kit out there. So what part of this is so difficult to understand……

    Corvus Maximus wrote: »
    The Americans have given the IDF the most hi-tech military kit on the planet. But why would they use it effectively to take out Hamas members, when they can destroy an entire neighbourhood. Much better to invoke 'Hannibal' than to use state of the art target acquisition and eliminate a specific enemy. Much better to take out power supplies, water & sewage treatment plants, food markets, hospitals, ambulances, medical staff, UN schools, UN civilians and innocent civilians. Than to make a concerted effort in avoiding civilian casualties.


    Using their hi-tech kit effectively means......oh let’s see. Oh yes, maybe not bombing that Ambulance, or firing multiples tank rounds into a operating, theatre, surgical wards and admin offices. Or maybe not bombing those 3 UN schools, or those UNRWA vehicles. Hopefully you are starting to see what I meant earlier, when I said use effectively?

    speedboatchase wrote: »
    Nice slogan. It's not used to "justify" the killing of the innocent, it is a military term used to provide context that points out that the killing was unintentional.

    So its' mere 'slogan' to you, well it's a principle of humanity to me and most people who respect Human Rights. And let me once again, spell out what I've already said...
    Corvus Maximus wrote: »
    How is it possible to ever justify the killing of innocent men, women and children? No level of humanity should ever be able to justify that.

    Do you notice how I do not specify any side there? Well that's because the killing of the innocent = All innocent civilians = men, women and children. Not just Palestinians or Israeli's, but all civilians.

    speedboatchase wrote: »
    Now, had Hamas killed a civilian with a rocket, that would not be "collateral damage", since that civilian was the intended target.

    You need to move away from this collateral damage apologist speak. If Hamas or the IDF kill civilians it is not collateral damage. It is murder, a war crime.
    Corvus Maximus wrote: »
    'Collateral damage' is apologist speak for defending the indefensible. A phrase that was invented to justify the killing of the innocent.
    Corvus Maximus wrote: »
    I like most people, condemn and deplore the firing of rockets into Israel and the targeting of Israeli civilians. It should not happen and it should never happen. The death of any civilian, Israeli or Palestinian is tragic and should never happen. The death of one is one too many.

    There is nothing else for me to say, I have answered and re-answered your questions. Yet you haven't answered mine, but not to worry, I won't be losing any sleep over it.


  • #3096
    Awkward Badger
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,414 ✭✭✭Awkward Badger


    Claregirl wrote: »
    At last something that ordinary people can do to protest against Israeli actions. They may ignore the UN or Amnesty but once this hits where it hurts it might put some manners on them.

    http://www.irishtimes.com/news/consumer/trade-union-urges-irish-businesses-to-boycott-israeli-goods-1.1888222

    It seems to be gathering momentum.

    Supervalu boycotting Israeli products is a pretty big step forward on that front.


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  • #3097
    Brown Bomber
    Site Banned Posts: 8,331 ✭✭✭Brown Bomber


    end of the road wrote: »
    if they exist, they haven't been destroyed, israel has failed, they will always fail, no matter how much they slaughter and rape, they will fail

    The "terror tunnels" were just an excuse to traumatise Gazans and destroy what pitiful infrastructure they have so they will suffer for as long as possible until the next time Israel decides it is time to tighten their leash and slaughter them all over again.


    I don't know if anyone has mentioned this but there was a military coup in Egypt of a democratically elected government and the brutal military junta who are allied with Israel and the US and they had closed the tunnels.


    Gazans make their own home-made "rockets" themselves in Gaza. Besides, who is it that is supposed to be supplying them anyway? It was previously Iran/Syria/Hezbollah, who Hamas turned their back on over the course of events with Syria.


  • #3098
    Brown Bomber
    Site Banned Posts: 8,331 ✭✭✭Brown Bomber


    Kertrada wrote: »
    Actually you were. I don't think one set of terrorism and terrorists is better than another, while innocent civilians on any side suffer.
    All things being equal and in a vacuum you are correct. Terrorist = Terrorist. However, all things are not equal as one terrorist is illegally occupying the other.


  • #3099
    Capt'n Midnight
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 95,515 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    speedboatchase wrote: »
    But please, articulate for me how a nation should respond to rockets being fired in a manner that won't result in any collateral damage whatsoever? It's very, very, very difficult.
    I will tell you exactly what a nation did.

    Israel had 18 months without attacks until Gaza was attacked without just cause.

    In response Israel have committed over 1,800 extra judicial killings. A Palestinian had the same daily risk of being killed as a Londoner during the worst two months of The Blitz.

    Let me repeat that again. The IDF's measured response is as deadly as the worst the Luftwaffe did to London during WWII.


    Meanwhile another nation had hundreds of civilians killed. They had a member of parliament killed , two different prime ministers were very nearly assassinated, a member of the Royal Family was. A far cry from the current conflict where there was only one Jewish civilian casualty and he put himself in harms way by going to a border crossing.

    But unlike Israel the UK didn't launch indiscriminate attacks on civilians.

    I can't say this often enough , when you try to defend Israel's behaviour by asking hypothetical questions about what other countries would do then the answer is usually "It's not hypothetical, this is what they did, and compared to them you are mass murderers"


  • #3100
    Tuisceanch
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 735 ✭✭✭Tuisceanch


    It's amazing the spirit of some human beings who have endured such struggle in their short lives. Some people can inspire us in our own lives.



    A poem by Noor Harazeen

    I Remember ..


    December 27, 2011 at 7:31pm
    I Remember, Today Five Years Ago ..
    It was my first day in my new job, as an English teacher ..

    I Remember, I was wearing New dark blue Jeans and a Red Jacket ..
    Me in the Car heading to my new office ..

    I Remember, Boom, Boom, Boom every where, Israeli jets and helicopters over our heads
    I was so close and couldn't go back ..

    I Remember, the faces of my new little students, and their tears ..
    We drove everyone back home with fear thet the next place on the road could be tragetted and attacked ..

    I Remember, My mum phone calls, where are you ? Come Back now ..
    Came back Home, thinking that it is just one day and everything will be good by tomorrow ..

    I Remember, Opening the TV, seeing the blood, the bodies and wittnessing what war is about ..
    Hearing in the radio stations news: women crying asking for help "we are trapped in our homes .. bodies are everywhere .. I lost my Husband and my kids are crying we need help .. Help us please .. please .. send some one from ICRC or anyone .. help us .. please"!

    I Remember, I cried .. I screamed i wanted to help i wanted to do Something ..
    But i couldn't ..

    I Remember, Random people calling form Algeria, Egypt, Morocco, Syria, Bahrain, Saudi Arabia to say that we are with you, we will not leave you alone, Be Strong .. Be Strong Gaza .. But all goverments left us alone ! it was only their people !

    I Remember, When we had no cooking gas and mum made some food and bread using fire and wood .. But she was scared everytime, That the drones might think she is doing something else ..
    Her voice every time before we go to sleep " Noor , Do you think whe should go to the basement ? or it could crash on us if they attacked ? "

    I Remember, They attacked the Mosques ! next, the Hospitals ! and then, the UN schools ! Then it was Gaza .. All of Gaza .. They Killed Gaza ..

    I Remember, the mixed voices of the Apache, F16 Airplanes, Tanks Shelling, Drones, White phosphorus bombs, shooting and the navi shelling .. All at the same time ..

    I Remember, The Numbers .. 200 dead .. 550 .. 800 .. 1100 .. more more more .. 1400
    I Remember, I lost two cousins and a friend .. No in fact i lost 700 cousins and 700 friends ..

    I Remember, The pain .. the fear .. And I will never forget .. neither will forgive ..

    I Remember, The hope, the strength, the Love that with it, Gaza rised up again ..
    I Remember, What i have been taught, The Phoenix reborn itself from the dust .. And Gaza is like the Phoenix .. No, I Realised that the Phoenix is Gaza ..


  • #3101
    Capt'n Midnight
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 95,515 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    fedor.2. wrote: »
    I thought Hamas wanted to wipe Israel and the Jews off the face of the earth, and if they had the means, that's exactly what they would do.

    How evil is it to convince your own people to strap explosives to themselves and board a bus full of innocent people.
    replace the word evil with desperate.

    Apart from the IRA , who I will never forgive for using proxy bombs, the use of suicide bombs generally only happens when people feel they have no other course of action

    it's a sad sickening fact that most of the concessions / limiting settlements the Palestinians have gained have been in the face of suicide bombs rather than negotiations,

    Remind us again how long it's been since there was a suicide bombing ?



    How evil is it to use human shields.

    How evil is it to continue to launch rocket after rocket after rocket at innocent people.
    The IDF are also guilty of this 'cept they've killed over 1,800 more people.



    Forget about Israel obeying UN resolutions, forget the Geneva Conventions.

    The Code of Hammurabi is nearly 3,800 years old.Ex. Law #196. "If a man destroy the eye of another man, they shall destroy his eye. If one break a man's bone, they shall break his bone

    This slaughter wouldn't have happened if Israel justice could only be dragged kicking and screaming into the 18th century, BC, when the law only allowed proportionate punishments.


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  • #3102
    NotASheeple
    Closed Accounts Posts: 424 ✭✭NotASheeple


    kudos to the Capt'n, Corvus, Nodin and other posters who inform, educate and reason with the preposterous apologists for genocide & hate.


  • #3103
    Rhys Essien
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,029 ✭✭✭Rhys Essien


    Have a listen here to an Irish Zionist trying to justify Israeli actions.Sickening totally deluded.

    Skip to 1:37:13 on the Aug 5 stream.

    http://www.redfm.ie/podcasts/neil-prendeville-show-podcast/?utm_content=buffer62dd2&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer


  • #3104
    Herb Powell
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,097 ✭✭✭Herb Powell


    Rhys Essien wrote: »
    Have a listen here to an Irish Zionist trying to justify Israeli actions.Sickening totally deluded.

    Skip to 1:37:13 on the Aug 5 stream.

    http://www.redfm.ie/podcasts/neil-prendeville-show-podcast/?utm_content=buffer62dd2&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer

    When you have to start off your argument with whataboutery, you know you're fuccked


  • #3105
    greenflash
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 499 ✭✭greenflash


    Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

    Israel had 18 months without attacks until Gaza was attacked without just cause.

    When were these 18 months of 0 attacks on Israel?


  • #3106
    NotASheeple
    Closed Accounts Posts: 424 ✭✭NotASheeple


    greenflash wrote: »
    When were these 18 months of 0 attacks on Israel?

    Go back through the Capt'ns posts, he already backed that up a few posts back. Unlike the apologists, who can't back anything up.


  • #3107
    greenflash
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 499 ✭✭greenflash


    NotASheeple wrote: »
    Go back through the Capt'ns posts, he already backed that up a few posts back. Unlike the apologists, who can't back anything up.

    Can't find anything in the captn's posts but there are a number of similarly unbacked mentions of eighteen months without an attack on Israel in this thread. Can you point me in the right direction?


  • #3108
    Manic Moran
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,068 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manic Moran


    greenflash wrote: »
    Can't find anything in the captn's posts but there are a number of similarly unbacked mentions of eighteen months without an attack on Israel in this thread. Can you point me in the right direction?

    This may be overly simplistic, but http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Palestinian_rocket_attacks_on_Israel,_2014 indicates 191 rockets and 16 mortar rounds fired primarily from Gaza the first six months of 2014. 52 rockets, 18 mortar rounds the year before.


  • #3109
    greenflash
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 499 ✭✭greenflash


    Manic Moran wrote: »
    This may be overly simplistic, but http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Palestinian_rocket_attacks_on_Israel,_2014 indicates 191 rockets and 16 mortar rounds fired primarily from Gaza the first six months of 2014. 52 rockets, 18 mortar rounds the year before.

    Thanks MM. I did look at those wiki pages when the eighteen months without an attack claim first appeared but discounted them as they indicate 277 attacks over the eighteen month period.


  • #3110
    porsche959
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,499 ✭✭✭porsche959


    Brown Bomber wrote: »
    Right, but Israel is a terrorist state.

    That is false - a straightforward, defamatory fib, and I'm calling you out on it. It isn't a blood libel in precise terms but it's worringly close.
    Brown Bomber wrote:
    Not boycotting Israel is at the very least giving tacit approval to terrorism. Unfortunately our leaders (unlike some of the Latin America's) lack the backbone to call it like it is with Israel's criminality. Resistance to their slaughter must come from the people - like me and you.

    Why are you so obessed with Israel? Have you said a word - one word - about ISIS slaughter of religious minorities in Syria and Iraq?

    Every person has to ask themselves why their outrage is so great when it comes to Israel, yet the CAR conflict, South Sudan, ISIS in Syria and Iraq have seemingly faded or at least we don't see as much outrage about them.

    Is it that when the Jews do it, it is so much worse? If so, then it is anti-semitism.


  • #3111
    porsche959
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,499 ✭✭✭porsche959


    end of the road wrote: »
    oh? the death tole in gaza says otherwise, israel are either indiscriminate or incompetent.

    So the side that takes the highest number of casualties is automatically in the moral right? That's a really strange moral precept. It's bizarre - particularly when, like Israel, you're basically up against a death cult.

    Now, what is the best option when you're up against a death cult that glorifies sucide bombings and uses their own victims for propaganda?

    I don't know. Do you?

    Then again, in an era when synagogues are being burned by fanatics across Europe, neither you or me are in charge of security of the Jewish people.


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  • #3112
    porsche959
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,499 ✭✭✭porsche959


    Kertrada wrote: »
    I don't know, that's why I'm asking
    Who won this round ? Israel ?

    My opinion, Israel lost this round. Hamas terrorists clever at propaganda, and their Western useful idiots, well, as always, behaved like idiots and did their nice hypocritical dance. Turkeys voting for Christmas, if you ask me.


  • #3113
    porsche959
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,499 ✭✭✭porsche959


    Corvus Maximus wrote: »
    Unless however, you subscribe to a hate filled political ideology like Zionism. What kind of savages would murder the innocent to take out one legitimate target or a weapons stash? But an even more disturbing question is? What kind of people would even try and defend such savagery?

    Define Zionist. Define apologist. Define innocent.

    Or stop using weasel words.

    A democratic state attacked by terrorists.

    What's your solution?

    Do you favour the rights of the Jewish state to protect itself?

    yes or no.

    Dou you favour the destruction of the state of Isreal?

    yes or no.


  • #3114
    porsche959
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,499 ✭✭✭porsche959


    Dan_Solo wrote: »
    You think if Iran or ISIS tried to attack Israel the US wouldn't wade in directly? It's not even a conspiracy theory, the US are already giving weapons and ammo to Israel.

    The US has also massively funded Egypt to the tune of billions over many years, including when Egypt was led by a dictator.

    Strangely, this does not occupy the attention of the pro-Palestinian campaign.

    It's almost as though...nah, couldn't be.


  • #3115
    porsche959
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,499 ✭✭✭porsche959


    BeerWolf wrote: »
    There will NEVER be a lasting peace between Palestine and Israel - Israel has made it abundantly clear of wanting the entire area under their control. Even if it means the pseudo assimilation of Palestine people before kicking them out, and telling the world they gave them the option to stay but they left. Such as they have for the past 60 years...

    Which entire area would that be?


  • #3116
    Vandango
    Closed Accounts Posts: 604 ✭✭✭Vandango


    porsche959 wrote: »
    That is false - a straightforward, defamatory fib, and I'm calling you out on it. It isn't a blood libel in precise terms but it's worringly close.

    Dafuc am I reading?
    porsche959 wrote: »
    Why are you so obessed with Israel?

    Eh did you read the thread title? There is a hint in the thread title it's called.. Israel - Palestine conflict. Hope you can see that
    porsche959 wrote: »
    have you said a word - one word - about ISIS slaughter of religious minorities in Syria and Iraq?

    Rinse and repeat - look at the thread title. So what relevance have ISIS in here? This thread is concerned with Zionist terrorism in Gaza.
    porsche959 wrote: »
    Every person has to ask themselves why their outrage is so great when it comes to Israel, yet the CAR conflict, South Sudan, ISIS in Syria and Iraq have seemingly faded or at least we don't see as much outrage about them.

    Why don't you set up a - Why don't You Join Me In My Outrage Thread.

    porsche959 wrote: »
    Is it that when the Jews do it, it is so much worse? If so, then it is anti-semitism.

    Your lack of knowledge is very obvious, but it's nothing to be embarrassed about. Looked I've filled in a lot of knowledge gaps myself reading this thread. So let me give it a shot in helping you. Zionist are terrorists, they are terrorizing civilians. Jews are people who follow their faith and because they do that, then they're not Zionists. In fact they hate Zionists. Antisemitism is what Zionist and other far right extremists do to Jews. There's been a lot of it in Israel apparently. Quite a few posters here, have put up some good links and videos about it. So like myself, watch, read and learn.
    porsche959 wrote: »
    So the side that takes the highest number of casualties is automatically in the moral right? That's a really strange moral precept.

    I'll make it easy for ya. Unarmed defenseless civilians Vs heavily armed Zionst IDF nutjobs. Can you see now who the victim might be? Can you see now who might be morally right?
    porsche959 wrote: »
    My opinion, Israel lost this round.

    Round? Ah so it's a game to you? Get the Xbox 360 or PS4 for Christmas?
    porsche959 wrote: »
    Hamas terrorists clever at propaganda, and their Western useful idiots, well, as always, behaved like idiots and did their nice hypocritical dance.

    So the poor oul Zionists were tricked. If only they hadn't of killed and injured thousands of civilians and played right into their hands.
    porsche959 wrote: »
    Define Zionist. Define apologist. Define innocent.

    Shouldn't you educate yourself about such matters? Do you really not understand what Zionism is or about? I’ve already tried to help you with that. And do you really not understand what 'apologist' means? Seriously?
    porsche959 wrote: »
    Or stop using weasel words.

    Says the poster who sneaks onto the thread after 5AM, to attack other posters who have long left the thread. The irony is strong here.
    porsche959 wrote: »
    A democratic state attacked by terrorists.

    That's right, Zionist terrorism created and expanded the State of Israel and they're still attacking Palestinians.
    porsche959 wrote: »
    What's your solution?

    Read what intelligent posters have already suggested. But I'm guessing you won't like it.
    porsche959 wrote: »
    Do you favour the rights of the Jewish state to protect itself?

    Israel isn't a Jewish state, it's a Zionist sate. I mean have not been reading the thread and learning? I know I've learned a lot.
    porsche959 wrote: »
    yes or no.

    Dafuc? Do you think you're sitting in a room talking to somebody? It's after 5 in the morning, who are you talking too?
    porsche959 wrote: »
    Dou you favour the destruction of the state of Isreal?

    I haven't seen any posters say that. I'd say a lot of posters here want to see the destruction of Zionism. Do you understand the difference?

    porsche959 wrote: »
    yes or no.

    For the second time, do you think you're sitting in a room talking to somebody right now? You posted that after 5 in the morning, who are you talking too?
    porsche959 wrote: »
    The US has also massively funded Egypt to the tune of billions over many years, including when Egypt was led by a dictator.

    When? Wait, do you think Egypt is a true democracy now? Did you miss the last couple of years or what?
    porsche959 wrote: »
    Strangely, this does not occupy the attention of the pro-Palestinian campaign. It's almost as though...nah, couldn't be.

    I’ll give anyone my months salary if they can decipher that.
    porsche959 wrote: »
    Which entire area would that be?
    The poster was obviously talking about the amazon jungle :rolleyes:. Seriously though, don’t you know there’s only one part of the world where Zionist terrorism exists?

    You would be better off posting when all those posters are about. They'd do a much better job of assisting you and educating you than me. So no point raising the roof after 5am when nobody's here. Although I reckon most if not all those posters, wouldn't waste their time replying.


  • #3117
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    porsche959 wrote: »
    That is false - a straightforward, defamatory fib, and I'm calling you out on it. It isn't a blood libel in precise terms but it's worringly close.

    .

    |Given the activities in Gaza, the assassination of enemies abroad, including members of Hamas, Iranian scientists etc, and the ongoing illegal colonisation of the occupied territories, what would you call it?


  • #3118
    suicide_circus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,801 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    You cant beat a bit of Lebensraum.


  • #3119
    A Dub in Glasgo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,333 ✭✭✭✭A Dub in Glasgo


    porsche959 wrote: »
    That is false - a straightforward, defamatory fib, and I'm calling you out on it. It isn't a blood libel in precise terms but it's worringly close.

    .


    Saying 'I am calling you out on it' does not prove it is false

    Israel - created by terrorism and continues by terrorism. Israel is the international terrorist state as judged by it's actions


  • #3120
    kryogen
    Closed Accounts Posts: 25,953 ✭✭✭✭kryogen


    Israel has followed a process of illegal invasion in the West Bank for a long time now with their settlements, they have turned Gaza into an open air prison where even the food is rationed and nobody can get in or out without permission. They have an "iron shield" that protects themselves from the rocket attacks which are the Palestinians only means of striking back against them. To demonize HAMAS for using the only means they have available to strike at those who are oppressing them is idiotic. Call them a terrorist organisation fine, but understand that they dont have an army, they dont have tanks, helicopters, fighter jets and any realistic alternative means to fighting what they see as their enemy. As an Irish person who like so many others had family that would have been deemed terrorists for choosing to take up arms against an occupying force a hundred years ago maybe I am more open to sympathizing with the Palestinian situation. The methods used by Irish heroes and freedom fights (and thats what they are now, but make no mistake they were known as terrorists at the time) were not pretty, were not normal military actions, they were guerilla tactics, they were the only means necessary of fighting back. The little guy in the fight has got to use different methods then the big guy, obviously.

    What is happening is nothing but ethnic cleansing, a genocide of the Palestinians and you know what, if thats what Israel has decided to do in their "war" thats what they have decided to do. Clearly there is going to be no intervention to stop the extermination of innocent civilians. They do not however also get to be treated like a moral, democratic country who value peace and human rights. They need to be identified for what they are, there is no excuse for the repeated targeting of schools and stuff like that, it is not the actions of a country defending itself, it is the actions of an extreme aggressor who wants to wipe out the enemy. For every innocent they murder they are creating the next generation of martyrs and suicide bombers. They are giving their enemies the best possible PR and are losing any moral high ground they had in this situation.

    I would like to continue but work calls!


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  • #3121
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    It's an undeniable fact that Israel is a racist state, so it's no great leap to think official policy towards other ethnic groups will also be racist.


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