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Israel - Palestine Conflict. **Mod note in OP - updated 1st August**

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Comments

  • #3062
    dav3
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,671 ✭✭✭dav3


    These past few weeks have opened more peoples eyes with regard to Israel.

    The boycotts and protests will only intensify.

    It has also opened peoples eyes to the delusional fanaticism of groups within Ireland, such as 'Irish christian friends of Israel', 'Irish 4 Israel' and the loons at the embassy 'Israel in Ireland' constantly posting anti-Irish tripe.

    Hamas fire rockets, we all know that. Try as you might, you cannot justify the killing of thousands of innocent civilians.


  • #3063
    speedboatchase
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,847 ✭✭✭speedboatchase


    tayto lover wrote: »
    Why would anyone condemn any group like Hamas for fighting back against injustice?
    Fair play to them. They are heavily outnumbered and out-gunned but they are still there representing and standing up for their people against the might and murder of the out of control IDF who remind me of the murderous Black & Tans.

    Anyone who expects them to lie down and take any s*** thrown at them as well as the blockades is plain stupid.

    Fair play Hamas.

    You could get 'Hamas' across the back of your Celtic jersey?


  • #3064
    speedboatchase
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,847 ✭✭✭speedboatchase


    dav3 wrote: »
    Hamas fire rockets (at civilian targets), we all know that. Try as you might, you cannot justify the killing of thousands of innocent civilians.

    So what if Hamas's rockets hit their mark for a change? I'm sure you'd be first to mourn the Israeli loss of lives, right?


  • #3065
    The Th!ng
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 464 ✭✭The Th!ng


    Could some of the Israeli apologists explain to us why wheelchairs and crayons are amongst the items the Israeli Government has prohibited from entering Gaza?


  • #3066
    tayto lover
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 55,585 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    speedboatchase wrote: »
    You could get 'Hamas' across the back of your Celtic jersey?

    Done :pac:


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  • #3067
    Tuisceanch
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 735 ✭✭✭Tuisceanch


    Some information about the book 'From Time Immemorial' from which form the basis for the authenticity of the claim that Palestine was largely unpopulated when the Jewish refugees landed on it's shore.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/From_Time_Immemorial

    Here is an excerpt

    ."[3] Noam Chomsky defended and promoted Finkelstein's critique, commenting:
    [As] soon as I heard that the book was going to come out in England, I immediately sent copies of Finkelstein's work to a number of British scholars and journalists who are interested in the Middle East—and they were ready. As soon as the book [From Time Immemorial] appeared, it was just demolished, it was blown out of the water. Every major journal, the Times Literary Supplement, the London Review, the Observer, everybody had a review saying, this doesn't even reach the level of nonsense, of idiocy. A lot of the criticism used Finkelstein's work without any acknowledgment, I should say—but about the kindest word anybody said about the book was "ludicrous," or "preposterous."[12]


  • #3068
    Claregirl
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 533 ✭✭✭Claregirl


    At last something that ordinary people can do to protest against Israeli actions. They may ignore the UN or Amnesty but once this hits where it hurts it might put some manners on them.

    http://www.irishtimes.com/news/consumer/trade-union-urges-irish-businesses-to-boycott-israeli-goods-1.1888222

    It seems to be gathering momentum.


  • #3069
    Mr.Micro
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,336 ✭✭✭Mr.Micro


    speedboatchase wrote: »
    What has Hamas 'won'? International sympathy and probably extra funding from the Arabian Gulf, sure. But they've wasted millions on rockets that did nothing and tunnels that have now been destroyed.

    Not forgetting the 1821 Palestinians and 70 Israelis killed. The tactics of Hamas are not working, as Israel only need the slightest excuse to murder.


  • #3070
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    speedboatchase wrote: »
    As promised. And don't just read the first paragraph!

    I do not believe that Israel's tactics are indiscriminate. I don't believe, for example, that an IDF higher-up is suddenly going to order the bombing of a school. Israel knows that it has to - as much as possible - conform to a higher standard than most armies when it comes to ensuring that civilian numbers don't explode. For example, the 'knock on the door' mortars aren't done by any other army because they immediately give away any tactical advantage, but they save lives.

    I do believe, however, that are probably some real crazy Zionist pr*cks in the IDF who - like Palestinians on the other side - hate their enemy and would like to take actions into their own hands. This, of course, is absolutely inexcusable. Has there been incidents which I think appear to have been discriminate decisions? Well I still don't understand why that horrendous beach killing occurred and whoever was responsible should be jailed for life.

    So to recap, I don't believe that the IDF is sanctioning indiscriminate killing of civilians. As I said before, they have the capability to wipe Gaza out in an afternoon if they wanted to. Similarly, I believe that Hamas's tactics are discriminate and if they had the capability of Israel, they wouldn't blink in wiping out their enemy.


    A direct order doesn't have to be given, as the way war is waged by a full modern military they are inevitable. Thus there's no need to say 'go in and make examples' because its an inescapable consequence of action. I might point out that I have never stated that this was an attempt at genocide.

    I've shown you a small selection of instances from the last 10 years or so, which typify how much of the Palestinian deaths occur in Gaza and the West Bank most of the time, which is directed rifle fire. You'll see that in that post I've noted the lack of prosecutions, which are very rare, and usually do not end in heavy sentences. If the notion of "crazy Zionist pricks" held any weight, they would be singled out and prosecuted. The fact is that they aren't, and this shows the truth of the matter - killings are used to instil fear in the population, and suppress them. This is nothing unique to Israel, and would be easily understood by a Greek or a Roman.

    There are of course some regiments who do have a notorious reputation and links with extremist teachings, but most of the information I have related to them goes back to the first intifada and isn't really relevant, save to note, as with the snipers & soldiers above, that failure to prosecute them for their breaches and excesses is itself a crime in international law.


  • #3071
    Kertrada
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 50 ✭✭Kertrada


    Claregirl wrote: »
    At last something that ordinary people can do to protest against Israeli actions. They may ignore the UN or Amnesty but once this hits where it hurts it might put some manners on them.

    It seems to be gathering momentum.

    I'll gladly join them as soon as their honest enough to boycott hamas as well


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  • #3072
    Tuisceanch
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 735 ✭✭✭Tuisceanch


    tayto lover wrote: »
    Done :pac:


    It only takes a bit of patience before they reveal themselves.:pac:


  • #3073
    dav3
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,671 ✭✭✭dav3


    speedboatchase wrote: »
    So what if Hamas's rockets hit their mark for a change? I'm sure you'd be first to mourn the Israeli loss of lives, right?

    If Israel was being treated the way the Palestinians currently are, I would be on Israel's side. But they're not, maybe in a parallel universe, but not this one.

    What we have is a nation out of control. A fanaticism and blood lust that we haven't seen from an entire nation since the second world war.

    They need to be stopped. Genocide, war crimes, illegal occupation, it needs to be stopped before they drag the whole world into the conflict.

    Their actions have managed to recruit another few thousand to fight against them. Whether that is Hamas or the next group it doesn't matter.


  • #3074
    speedboatchase
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,847 ✭✭✭speedboatchase


    It's goodnight from me. Thanks for the response, Nodin.


  • #3075
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    speedboatchase wrote: »
    Just pay attention Dan, we're all counting on you.
    Pay attention? Me? You're the guy who just admitted he wasn't capable of reading my posts properly! GUFFAW!


  • #3076
    Brown Bomber
    Site Banned Posts: 8,331 ✭✭✭Brown Bomber


    Kertrada wrote: »
    I'll gladly join them as soon as their honest enough to boycott hamas as well
    Did you also boycott blacks and coloureds living under apartheid in South Africa?


    And exactly what exports of Gazan produce will you be boycotting from a people cut off from the rest of the World by their occupiers by land, air and sea?


  • #3077
    end of the road
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,690 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    speedboatchase wrote: »
    As I said, the only side who are indiscriminate in their tactics is Hamas.

    oh? the death tole in gaza says otherwise, israel are either indiscriminate or incompetent.
    speedboatchase wrote: »
    By the way, since we can agree that Hamas's tactics are indiscriminate, why are you not offended by that?

    do you know he isn't? does he have to remind us how he condemns hamas everytime he mentions israels actions? it goes without saying surely?
    speedboatchase wrote: »
    You seem angry

    seeing children being deliberately slaughtered tends to do that to people
    speedboatchase wrote: »
    Israel's tactics are indiscriminate

    yes they are, well done for agreeing that they are.
    speedboatchase wrote: »
    what about Hamas's openly indiscriminate rockets?

    what about what about what about, thats all you seem to say, what about this, what about that.
    speedboatchase wrote: »
    Is Hamas allowed to be indiscriminate because their rockets are rubbish?

    no, but if the likes of america condemned both sides and tried to do something about it or at least force both sides to the table then we may get somewhere, the hypocrisy is as bad as the slaughtering.

    I'm very highly educated. I know words, i have the best words, nobody has better words then me.



  • #3078
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    Kertrada wrote: »
    I'll gladly join them as soon as their honest enough to boycott hamas as well
    Seeing as Israel has besieged Gaza and shoots at aid ships, it's unlikely you'll come across many Gaza products in SuperValu anyway.


  • #3079
    Kertrada
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 50 ✭✭Kertrada


    dav3 wrote: »
    If Israel was being treated the way the Palestinians currently are, I would be on Israel's side. But they're not, maybe in a parallel universe, but not this one.

    What we have is a nation out of control. A fanaticism and blood lust that we haven't seen from an entire nation since the second world war.

    They need to be stopped. Genocide, war crimes, illegal occupation, it needs to be stopped before they drag the whole world into the conflict.

    Their actions have managed to recruit another few thousand to fight against them. Whether that is Hamas or the next group it doesn't matter.

    Personally I prefer to be on the side of innocent civilians, regardless of their nationality, rather than terrorists, either Hamas or Israeli ones.


  • #3080
    Kertrada
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 50 ✭✭Kertrada


    Brown Bomber wrote: »
    Did you also boycott blacks and coloureds living under apartheid in South Africa?

    No, because I can differentiate between civilians and terrorists, no matter what side they are on, but I did boycott ANC killings and violence, as Mandela eventually did as well.


  • #3081
    Rhys Essien
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,029 ✭✭✭Rhys Essien


    Kertrada wrote: »
    I don't know, that's why I'm asking
    Who won this round ? Israel ?

    Anyone who kills 400+ kids is a psychotic murderer.Is that the answer you wanted?


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  • #3082
    Kertrada
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 50 ✭✭Kertrada


    Rhys Essien wrote: »
    Anyone who kills 400+ kids is a psychotic murderer.Is that the answer you wanted?

    So which side one, Israel or Hamas ?


  • #3083
    dav3
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,671 ✭✭✭dav3


    Kertrada wrote: »
    Personally I prefer to be on the side of innocent civilians, regardless of their nationality, rather than terrorists, either Hamas or Israeli ones.

    Are you being deliberately obtuse?


  • #3084
    end of the road
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,690 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    speedboatchase wrote: »
    What has Hamas 'won'? International sympathy and probably extra funding from the Arabian Gulf, sure. But they've wasted millions on rockets that did nothing and tunnels that have now been destroyed.
    if they exist, they haven't been destroyed, israel has failed, they will always fail, no matter how much they slaughter and rape, they will fail

    I'm very highly educated. I know words, i have the best words, nobody has better words then me.



  • #3085
    WakeUp
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,823 ✭✭✭WakeUp


    Kertrada wrote: »
    I'll gladly join them as soon as their honest enough to boycott hamas as well

    How would you suggest a boycott of Hamas would take shape?..would it be dangerous items like books and crayons stuff like that? or maybe things like fuel..petrol and diesel perhaps?..


  • #3086
    Kertrada
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 50 ✭✭Kertrada


    dav3 wrote: »
    Are you being deliberately obtuse?

    If that's what you call being against all terrorists, hamas or israeli, and the killing or attempted killing of any civilians.


  • #3087
    comongethappy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,756 ✭✭✭comongethappy


    end of the road wrote: »
    if they exist

    Which has already been demonstrated to you that they do.

    Though I would agree, the IDF probably didn't get them all.


  • #3088
    Brown Bomber
    Site Banned Posts: 8,331 ✭✭✭Brown Bomber


    Kertrada wrote: »
    No, because I can differentiate between civilians and terrorists, no matter what side they are on, but I did boycott ANC killings and violence, as Mandela eventually did as well.
    Right, but Israel is a terrorist state. BDS is no different in effect to the sanctions imposed on Iran for their pretend nuclear weapons program,


    Not boycotting Israel is at the very least giving tacit approval to terrorism. Unfortunately our leaders (unlike some of the Latin America's) lack the backbone to call it like it is with Israel's criminality. Resistance to their slaughter must come from the people - like me and you.


  • #3089
    Kertrada
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 50 ✭✭Kertrada


    WakeUp wrote: »
    How would you suggest a boycott of Hamas would take shape?..would it be dangerous items like books and crayons stuff like that? or maybe things like fuel..petrol and diesel perhaps?..

    I would boycott both Israel and Hamas politically, not one over the other.
    Is your peace dove blind to some terrorism and not others ?


  • #3090
    Tuisceanch
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 735 ✭✭✭Tuisceanch


    dav3 wrote: »
    These past few weeks have opened more peoples eyes with regard to Israel.

    The boycotts and protests will only intensify.

    It has also opened peoples eyes to the delusional fanaticism of groups within Ireland, such as 'Irish christian friends of Israel', 'Irish 4 Israel' and the loons at the embassy 'Israel in Ireland' constantly posting anti-Irish tripe.

    Hamas fire rockets, we all know that. Try as you might, you cannot justify the killing of thousands of innocent civilians.


    Oh those sites are just full of people full of unresolved anger issues who are too lazy to think for themselves. They post pictures of Irish passports(probably stolen) as proof of Irish solidarity for the Israeli cause but are prudent and cowardly enough to only show their hand clutching the passport. Quite ludicrous and pathetic.


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  • #3091
    Kertrada
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 50 ✭✭Kertrada


    Brown Bomber wrote: »
    Right, but Israel is a terrorist state. BDS is no different in effect to the sanctions imposed on Iran for their pretend nuclear weapons program,


    Not boycotting Israel is at the very least giving tacit approval to terrorism. Unfortunately our leaders (unlike some of the Latin America's) lack the backbone to call it like it is with Israel's criminality. Resistance to their slaughter must come from the people - like me and you.

    I don't believe either Israel or Gazza are terrorist states, or their citizens are, just because terrorists may currently be in charge of a country. Resistance should be to all terrorism, not just one sides terrorism.


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