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Israel - Palestine Conflict. **Mod note in OP - updated 1st August**

1…8990929495…174

Comments

  • #2732
    SeaBreezes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,563 ✭✭✭SeaBreezes


    Tuisceanch wrote: »
    I'm glad somebody brought this up again.

    Here are some links

    http://tinyurl.com/qd6ajwx
    http://tinyurl.com/a5gktdg

    Thank you. I cant repost the links, can you do so again please? I notice everytime someone mentions the gas field, the thread gets derailed.

    Funnily enough, I was discussing this with my mum the other night. We could not understand why. Why such a savage invasion? Why not starve/apartheid the palestinians gradually out of existence as you have been doing for the last 50 years? Why be so OBVIOUS about it?

    That article tells us why. Because gas reserves are running out...


  • #2733
    tayto lover
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 55,585 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    Santa Cruz wrote: »
    The Palestinians have been fooled for years by the Arab states who have used the Palestinian cause as a distraction from their own oppressive regimes. As a result the Palestinians believed that they had allies thus removing the common sense approach of sitting down and hammering out an agreement with Israel

    You cannot go to the person who is continually bullying, killing you and forcing you off your lands and say "I want a better deal". If only it was that easy but history has told the Palestinians that it's not. They are doing the only thing left open to them. In time the whole world will turn on Israel and the U.S. will stop supporting them.


  • #2734
    Santa Cruz
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,126 ✭✭✭Santa Cruz


    Nodin wrote: »
    Why do you think Israel wants an agreement? As it stands they can do as they please, take what land they want with no penalty and very few casualties. Why would they stop?


    Do you really think that Israel wants to live forever under the threat of attack?
    The Israeli population want to live in security and not to have constantly be involved in military activity, national service etc.
    Why did they have the Camp David agreement?
    You might as well say why do you think Sinn Fein/IRA wanted an agreement in the 90s.
    On this occasion if Hamas hadn't continued to send rockets into Israel then Gaza would not have been invaded. There would still be ongoing hostilities
    but with compromise an agreement could be made.


  • #2735
    Santa Cruz
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,126 ✭✭✭Santa Cruz


    tayto lover wrote: »
    You cannot go to the person who is continually bullying, killing you and forcing you off your lands and say "I want a better deal". If only it was that easy but history has told the Palestinians that it's not. They are doing the only thing left open to them. In time the whole world will turn on Israel and the U.S. will stop supporting them.

    No they won't


  • #2736
    SeaBreezes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,563 ✭✭✭SeaBreezes


    Nodin wrote: »
    Why do you think Israel wants an agreement? As it stands they can do as they please, take what land they want with no penalty and very few casualties. Why would they stop?

    They want the gas. And have to keep it quiet. If the world knows whats going on, the oil companies will back off.

    Tell the world what they are doing. This gas is costing the lives of too many people.


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  • #2737
    RustyNut
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,427 ✭✭✭RustyNut


    Santa Cruz wrote: »
    On this occasion if Hamas hadn't continued to send rockets into Israel then Gaza would not have been invaded. There would still be ongoing hostilities
    but with compromise an agreement could be made.

    Remind me again how many rockets were fired by Hamas before the Israeli invasion began?


  • #2738
    Tuisceanch
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 735 ✭✭✭Tuisceanch


    Tuisceanch wrote: »
    I'm glad somebody brought this up again.

    Here are some links

    http://tinyurl.com/qd6ajwx
    http://tinyurl.com/a5gktdg
    SeaBreezes wrote: »
    They want the gas. And have to keep it quiet. If the world knows whats going on, the oil companies will back off.

    Tell the world what they are doing. This gas is costing the lives of too many people.

    Well it's the elephant in the corner and it usually comes down to resources,creating new demand for military equipment.

    I'm not sure what you mean by re-posting as you did by quoting my reply to you,didn't you? If you mean something else by re-posting then please let me know and I will facilitate.


  • #2739
    NipNip
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 656 ✭✭✭NipNip


    SeaBreezes wrote: »
    They want the gas. And have to keep it quiet. If the world knows whats going on, the oil companies will back off.

    Tell the world what they are doing. This gas is costing the lives of too many people.

    I am astounded at your naivety! Do you actually think that the traders on world gas/oil stocks CARE ABOUT PEOPLE? Ah Lord................


  • #2740
    SeaBreezes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,563 ✭✭✭SeaBreezes


    Santa Cruz wrote: »
    Do you really think that Israel wants to live forever under the threat of attack?
    The Israeli population want to live in security and not to have constantly be involved in military activity, national service etc.
    Why did they have the Camp David agreement?
    You might as well say why do you think Sinn Fein/IRA wanted an agreement in the 90s.
    On this occasion if Hamas hadn't continued to send rockets into Israel then Gaza would not have been invaded. There would still be ongoing hostilities
    but with compromise an agreement could be made.

    For the government, a populace living in fear are more easily controlled.

    Gaza was invaded because Israel wants gazas gas fields. And cannot wait Israels supply is running out. End of.

    Do you seriously believe so many thousands of innocents have died because three teenagers were kidnapped by people who spoke hebrew? Seriously?


  • #2741
    Tuisceanch
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 735 ✭✭✭Tuisceanch


    NipNip wrote: »
    Do you actually think that the traders on world gas/oil stocks CARE ABOUT PEOPLE? Ah Lord................


    Yes I don't think that is a major concern for them. However the articles posted discusses the extent of the negotiations that were occurring over the last few years and why BP withdrew because of the inability of the parties to agree a deal.


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  • #2742
    NotASheeple
    Closed Accounts Posts: 424 ✭✭NotASheeple


    Santa Cruz wrote: »
    Do you really think that Israel wants to live forever under the threat of attack?

    So let's kill and injure thousands of Palestinians because we have lost thous.....oh wait, we haven't.

    Do you think the Palestinians asked to brutalised and kicked off their lands?
    Santa Cruz wrote: »
    The Israeli population want to live in security and not to have constantly be involved in military activity, national service etc.

    Well if the Zionist government wasn't constantly inventing a reason for war. Then there wouldn't be a requirement for national service.
    Santa Cruz wrote: »
    On this occasion if Hamas hadn't continued to send rockets into Israel then Gaza would not have been invaded.

    Continued? No they invaded after the three Jewish lads were killed. Which they later admitted later admitted Hamas had no involvement with. So once again, they lied and created an excuse for war.


  • #2743
    end of the road
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,690 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    Santa Cruz wrote: »
    Do you really think that Israel wants to live forever under the threat of attack?
    The Israeli population want to live in security and not to have constantly be involved in military activity, national service etc.
    Why did they have the Camp David agreement?
    You might as well say why do you think Sinn Fein/IRA wanted an agreement in the 90s.
    On this occasion if Hamas hadn't continued to send rockets into Israel then Gaza would not have been invaded. There would still be ongoing hostilities
    but with compromise an agreement could be made.
    wrong again, israel was always going to invade gaza again, was only a matter of time. rapeing and slaughtering is what the IDF and the israely government do and will continue to do

    I'm very highly educated. I know words, i have the best words, nobody has better words then me.



  • #2744
    Gringo180
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,205 ✭✭✭Gringo180




    Jon Snow is a legend.


  • #2745
    SeaBreezes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,563 ✭✭✭SeaBreezes


    Tuisceanch wrote: »
    Well it's the elephant in the corner and it usually comes down to resources,creating new demand for military equipment.

    I'm not sure what you mean by re-posting as you did by quoting my reply to you,didn't you? If you mean something else by re-posting then please let me know and I will facilitate.

    No thank you, Tuisceanach. Its ok. Up until today I couldnt post links (long term lurker, short term poster). I just wanted to bring awareness back to what I believe is the crux of the matter. And possibly the solution. If there was a world outcry againt the petroleum companies willing to do business in these conditions. A name and shame if you will. There might be a rapid cessation of aggression. Just sayin'.


  • #2746
    Tail Docker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,954 ✭✭✭Tail Docker


    SeaBreezes wrote: »
    No thank you, Tuisceanach. Its ok. Up until today I couldnt post links (long term lurker, short term poster). I just wanted to bring awareness back to what I believe is the crux of the matter. And possibly the solution. If there was a world outcry againt the petroleum companies willing to do business in these conditions. A name and shame if you will. There might be a rapid cessation of aggression. Just sayin'.

    Lol. Wait till energy starts getting even scarcer. All pretences will then be dropped, and it will be a pure, unadulterated case of might is right. We're almost there, almost. No energy, the west is fcuked. Society as we know it is fcuked. The powers that be won't go for that, so resources will be procured, at any and all cost.


  • #2747
    Capt'n Midnight
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 96,120 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    shewasdiesel wrote: »
    The British never gave into terrorism, not will Israel, nor will the Palestinians. They will be no solution until people stop killing civilians and one another.
    Like the Republicans and Loyalists up north Hamas stopped their attacks.

    Yes there were then attacks by Continuity IRA etc. and that's why the UK military walled off the Bogside, stopped paying social welfare, tore up the medical cards, flattened the flats and churches and blew up Coolkeeragh power station.

    Oh wait, they didn't do any of those things. And now we have peace.

    Please stop trying to compare what is happening in Gaza with what happened here. The comparisons only show how barbaric and uncompromising the Israeli response is.


  • #2748
    Wildlife Actor
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 491 ✭✭Wildlife Actor


    Rhys Essien wrote: »
    Are you aware that Michael D is very passionate towards the Palestinian cause?

    His outburst on Newstalk a few years back where he called the pro-Israeli Michael Graham a '****€r' was during a Palestine-Israel debate.Sadly he probably has to bite his lip now and say nothing.

    Check it out on Youtube.Michael D-****€r-Newstalk should find it.

    I didn't vote for MDH and have never been a fan but I'll never have a bad word to say about him if he does what he needs to do now. Of all the difficult questions that arise in Palestine and the Middle East generally, there's never been a clearer answer than to this one. MDH can't speak without the Government's consent but he can give them an ultimatum and put his presidency on the line. It might not change anything immediately and we might lose intel over it but the chance to redeem this country from the taint of our government's and the EU's despicable silence on what's going on is worth the office. I'd re-elect him.


  • #2749
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Santa Cruz wrote: »
    Do you really think that Israel wants to live forever under the threat of attack?
    The Israeli population want to live in security and not to have constantly be involved in military activity, national service etc.
    Why did they have the Camp David agreement?
    You might as well say why do you think Sinn Fein/IRA wanted an agreement in the 90s.
    On this occasion if Hamas hadn't continued to send rockets into Israel then Gaza would not have been invaded. There would still be ongoing hostilities
    but with compromise an agreement could be made.

    Camp David with Egypt? Egypt has an airforce, tanks and could bog Israel down in a war of attrition. By doing a deal with Egypt they further isolate the Palestinians.

    Think of it as a strategic move. They gain land/territory and expand and seize various territories. The price they pay is minimal. Seriously, look up on a site of your choice about the settlement expansion and the treatment of the population of Arab East Jerusalem. Theres minimal Israeli casualties and zero sanctions. Theres lots of carrot to act one way, no carrot and no stick to act the other.


  • #2750
    hju6
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,432 ✭✭✭hju6


    Palestinian living in Britain discovered ELEVEN relatives were killed in Gaza air strike after reading a friend's Facebook message
    Five children were among the relatives of Musheir El-Farrah killed on Friday
    They were sleeping in their home in Khan Younis when missiles rained down
    Although they tried to flee, follow-up attacks caught them in the street
    Nearly 2,000 Palestinians, mostly civilians, have been killed in four weeks


    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2716023/Palestinian-living-Britain-discovered-ELEVEN-relatives-killed-Gaza-air-strike-reading-friend-s-Facebook-message.html#ixzz39SRbEkQY
    Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook


  • #2751
    Capt'n Midnight
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 96,120 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    Glock Lesnar wrote: »
    Are there figures available that show the child death ratio of the American shelling in Iraq?
    So far the 27 days of Operation Protective Edge have resulted in 1,750, deaths.

    In 1940 the population of London was about 4.5 times the population of the Gaza Strip.

    Scale up Gaza to London over 57 days would give you 57/27*4.5*1,750 = 16,625 deaths. Overall 20,000 died in London during the whole of the Blitz but that was over a period of 267 days (almost 37 weeks), and 71 bombing raids. ( 16625*71/57 =20700 if you want to work back )

    There is an argument that all the bombs fell on the centre of London but
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-20637222 shows that pretty much everywhere inside the M25 was hit.




    I can't tell you how the child death rate compares, but I can tell you the overall death rate per day is the same as the worst of the Luftwaffe attacks on London during the Blitz , the 57 days starting on 7th Sept 1940 with air raids every night.


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  • #2752
    RustyNut
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,427 ✭✭✭RustyNut


    Love nor Money wrote: »
    I didn't vote for MDH and have never been a fan but I'll never have a bad word to say about him if he does what he needs to do now. Of all the difficult questions that arise in Palestine and the Middle East generally, there's never been a clearer answer than to this one. MDH can't speak without the Government's consent but he can give them an ultimatum and put his presidency on the line. It might not change anything immediately and we might lose intel over it but the chance to redeem this country from the taint of our government's and the EU's despicable silence on what's going on is worth the office. I'd re-elect him.

    If he doesn't say something soon he will loose all credability, if he cant speak out when it counts sure it may as well be the regimental goat up in the park.


  • #2753
    tayto lover
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 55,585 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    hju6 wrote: »
    Palestinian living in Britain discovered ELEVEN relatives were killed murdered in Gaza air strike after reading a friend's Facebook message
    Five children were among the relatives of Musheir El-Farrah killed on Friday
    They were sleeping in their home in Khan Younis when missiles rained down
    Although they tried to flee, follow-up attacks caught them in the street
    Nearly 2,000 Palestinians, mostly civilians, have been killed murdered in four weeks


    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2716023/Palestinian-living-Britain-discovered-ELEVEN-relatives-killed-Gaza-air-strike-reading-friend-s-Facebook-message.html#ixzz39SRbEkQY
    Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook


    FYP


  • #2754
    The Th!ng
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 464 ✭✭The Th!ng


    Sound of Silence wrote: »
    And when over 90% of Israeli's support the ongoing assault on Gaza, I doubt we'll see a swift end to this ongoing conflict.

    Their votes are null and void if cast from illegal settlements.


  • #2755
    hju6
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,432 ✭✭✭hju6


    hju6 wrote: »
    Palestinian living in Britain discovered ELEVEN relatives were killed in Gaza air strike after reading a friend's Facebook message
    Five children were among the relatives of Musheir El-Farrah killed on Friday
    They were sleeping in their home in Khan Younis when missiles rained down
    Although they tried to flee, follow-up attacks caught them in the street
    Nearly 2,000 Palestinians, mostly civilians, have been killed in four weeks


    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2716023/Palestinian-living-Britain-discovered-ELEVEN-relatives-killed-Gaza-air-strike-reading-friend-s-Facebook-message.html#ixzz39SRbEkQY
    Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

    'They all died at around 3.45am on Friday morning. They were in bed sleeping when the first missile hit and so they were trying to get to safety.
    'They ran and they were hit outside the building where they live. They were all still in their pyjamas and nighties when they were killed.'


    Blown out of bed and killed in the street in nightclothes, FFS

    A PURE ACT OF TERROR BY TERRORISTS


  • #2756
    hatrickpatrick
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,798 ✭✭✭✭hatrickpatrick


    pedro1234 wrote: »
    EDIT: Oh I see what you mean!

    What did your post say before the edit? :pac:


  • #2757
    Tuisceanch
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 735 ✭✭✭Tuisceanch


    An article entitled
    'We are washing our hands of the ethnic cleansing of Palestinians'

    by Victoria White
    writing in the Irish Examiner


    http://tinyurl.com/owr59ds

    A response to her article in the same paper

    http://tinyurl.com/kbfvjse

    courtesy of those shining examples of balance and virtue at
    https://www.facebook.com/irish4israel


  • #2758
    donegal__road
    Closed Accounts Posts: 953 ✭✭✭donegal__road


    Capt'n Midnight wrote: »
    Like the Republicans and Loyalists up north Hamas stopped their attacks.

    Yes there were then attacks by Continuity IRA etc. and that's why the UK military walled off the Bogside, stopped paying social welfare, tore up the medical cards, flattened the flats and churches and blew up Coolkeeragh power station.

    Oh wait, they didn't do any of those things. And now we have peace.

    Please stop trying to compare what is happening in Gaza with what happened here. The comparisons only show how barbaric and uncompromising the Israeli response is.

    you would probably have to go back as far as Bloody Sunday if we were to try and find a comparison with what Israel are doing today.


  • #2759
    Tail Docker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,954 ✭✭✭Tail Docker


    hju6 wrote: »
    'They all died at around 3.45am on Friday morning. They were in bed sleeping when the first missile hit and so they were trying to get to safety.
    'They ran and they were hit outside the building where they live. They were all still in their pyjamas and nighties when they were killed.'


    Blown out of bed and killed in the street in nightclothes, FFS

    A PURE ACT OF TERROR BY TERRORISTS

    I know why people are posting, I really do. It boils my blood what is being done to these people, I have zero tolerance for the apologists, the spinners and the shills. But I also realise the futility. The IDF has the pass, the leverage, the strings to pull and the pseudo-credibility to do what they like, when they like. To oppose them is to pi55 in the wind. Sadly.


  • #2760
    Tuisceanch
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 735 ✭✭✭Tuisceanch


    Inside the talks' failure: US officials open up

    In an exclusive interview, American officials directly connected to the talks reveal the real reason for the collapse of the negotiations.
    Nahum Barnea

    http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4515821,00.html

    Norman Finkelstein talks about this interview which can be found here

    http://www.orbooks.com/catalog/old-wine-broken-bottle/

    He,however,states that Kerry asked the Israeli side what their bottom line was and, having received a response ,presented it to the Palestinians who accepted it.However the Israeli's then backtracked leaving the Americans furious. I can't find any direct reference to this in the article.


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  • #2761
    woodoo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,219 ✭✭✭woodoo


    Tail Docker wrote: »
    I know why people are posting, I really do. It boils my blood what is being done to these people, I have zero tolerance for the apologists, the spinners and the shills. But I also realise the futility. The IDF has the pass, the leverage, the strings to pull and the pseudo-credibility to do what they like, when they like. To oppose them is to pi55 in the wind. Sadly.

    People can make a difference by finding out about Israeli products and goods and boycott them. Start by asking the manager in your local supermarket which fruit and veg are from Israel. Then don't buy it. If people are happy to just whinge and be outraged on the internet then fine but that is not worth a hill of beans to the Palestinian people.


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