Israel - Palestine Conflict. Mod note in OP - updated 1st August

Dan_Solo · 01-08-2014 05:31PM

LostinKildare wrote: »

The author of that piece, "When Genocide Is Permissible," which was hastily pulled by the Times of Israel, also posted it up on his Facebook page:

https://www.facebook.com/yochanan.gordon.3?fref=browse_search

Some mindset

Unfathomable.
Apparently Obama and Kerry restocking the IDF to deliberately bomb babies in their sleep means they are idiots for not backing Israel enough...

RustyNut · 01-08-2014 05:31PM

Dan_Solo wrote: »

You mean IDF soldier shooting 13 year old girl ten times kind of hell to pay? i.e. moved to a different department?

Donkey Oaty wrote: »

They'll probably make him write the horoscopes for a week as punishment.

The IDF would never target children. Would they.

TeddyTedson · 01-08-2014 05:34PM

Tuisceanch wrote: »

Well I have read a few books on the subject but I'm going to recommend a book which I have not yet read but was recommended by a friend and it is written by an Israeli historian.

http://tinyurl.com/kfdhusf

Tom Segev (Hebrew: תום שגב‎) (born March 1, 1945) is an Israeli historian, author and journalist. He is associated with Israel's so-called New Historians, a group challenging many of the country's traditional narratives.

Great thanks, I'll try check that out soon!

Son Of A Vidic · 01-08-2014 05:51PM

whats_my_name wrote: »

I honestly have no words...

"The United States also blamed Hamas for the breakdown of the ceasefire and accused it of launching a "barbaric" attack to capture an Israeli soldier.

Of course they blamed Hamas. Yet the most important question is, why were the IDF engaged in an offensive military operation during an agreed three day ceasefire?

The army said they believe the soldier went missing in the Rafah area of Gaza when the Israeli military was attacked during a continued operation to destroy tunnels they suspect are used by militants to gain access into Israel.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/israeli-soldier-feared-captured-in-tunnel-attack-by-militants-9642469.html

So we had a continuing IDF operation in the Rafah area of Southern Gaza? Unsurprisingly, it looks like they don't understand the concept of a three day ceasefire. Search and destroy operations, are not the normal duties that armies take part in during a ceasefire.

So surprise, surprise, they encounter enemy combatants while engaged in an offensive search & destroy operation and losses ensued. Then in typically psychotic IDF fashion, they decide to vent their blind unrestrained rage on innocent civilians in the Rafah area. Killing 53 civilians and wounding 100.

But this is their pattern. On the night of Saturday the 19th of July. The IDF suffered heavy losses after an engagement with Hamas and over the course of the next 24 hours, they reduced the nearby civilian area to dust, killing 100 men, women and children.

But no doubt the Americans are delighted, it gives them some wriggle room again. It must have left a bitter taste in their mouths, condemning the IDF bombing of a UN school. At least now once again they can blame Hamas for breaking the ceasefire. I mean how dare they impede the work of the IDF, who were in the middle of an offensive operation in Palestinian territory during a ceasefire.

hju6 · 01-08-2014 05:52PM

The photograph depicts a mortar shell with the words 'That’s for cancelling the Backstreet Boys, you scum!' inscribed on its shaft in Hebrew.

What a ****in pity Israeli 'Backstreet Boys' gig cancelled, no time for concerts when there's Schools, Hospitals women and children to destroy and kill

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/message-on-israeli-shell-to-gaza-reads-thats-for-cancelling-the-backstreet-boys-you-scum-9640590.html

hatrickpatrick · 01-08-2014 05:53PM

jank wrote: »

Say what? We cant trust individuals to make their own decision on wether or not to buy goods ethically so instead we must force them to buy goods we/you deem ethical. Tell me are we to boycott Chinese goods as well? Who controls what's moral or not? The sociology dept. of trinity?

That's not what I meant, what I meant was that the free market is not in fact free - too many monopolies, too many people who depend on unethical companies for their food, etc. Ergo, the free market cannot regulate ethics - laws are required to do that.

I wasn't attacking a person who refuses to boycott an Israeli company because that would make them or their families homeless, I was using that example to argue that this is exactly why the free market isn't enough - we need governments to impose high level sanctions on such companies instead of asking individuals to choose between morality or bankruptcy.

Dan_Solo · 01-08-2014 05:54PM

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

Of course they blamed Hamas. Yet the most important question is, why were the IDF engaged in an offensive military operation during an agreed three day ceasefire?

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/israeli-soldier-feared-captured-in-tunnel-attack-by-militants-9642469.html

So we had a continuing IDF operation in the Rafah area of Southern Gaza? Unsurprisingly, it looks like they don't understand the concept of a three day ceasefire. Search and destroy operations, are not the normal duties that armies take part in during a ceasefire.

So surprise, surprise, they encounter enemy combatants while engaged in an offensive search & destroy operation and losses ensued. Then in typically psychotic IDF fashion, they decide to vent their blind unrestrained rage on innocent civilians in the Rafah area. Killing 53 civilians and wounding 100.

But this is their pattern. On the night of Saturday the 19th of July. The IDF suffered heavy losses after an engagement with Hamas and over the course of the next 24 hours, they reduced the nearby civilian area to dust, killing 100 men, women and children.

But no doubt the Americans are delighted, it gives them some wriggle room again. It must have left a bitter taste in their mouths, condemning the IDF bombing of a UN school. At least now once again they can blame Hamas for breaking the ceasefire. I mean how dare they impede the work of the IDF, who were in the middle of an offensive operation in Palestinian territory during a ceasefire.

Much like Israel defining civilians = combatants, we now have ceasefire = keep shooting. Shameless, and the US only takes the Israeli dick out of their mouth to repeat the lies.

Donkey Oaty · 01-08-2014 05:56PM

"When genocide is permissible" is now trending on Twitter worldwide.

The article is still on the home page of the New York based "Five Towns Jewish Times" whose editor is the writer's father.

JamboMac · 01-08-2014 05:59PM

Dan_Solo wrote: »

Well there's the thing you see. I have no great time for Vlad Putin to put it mildly, but now when I hear Obama insisting Russia has shot down a civilian aircraft I'm starting to think: hang on, you're the same lying **** who says Israel is only defending itself when it obliterates children sleeping in clearly marked UN buildings, so you can get ****ed if you think I'll believe you on anything.

Russians have been escape goats for Britain and the US since the Cold War and this country is the reason why German is not the native tongue of most Europeans.

I'd trust Russia before US

Tuisceanch · 01-08-2014 06:01PM

A justified position

Tuisceanch · 01-08-2014 06:11PM

Here is an article titled "
Debunking the myths about Gaza: The truth behind Israeli and Palestinian talking points"

http://tinyurl.com/p4brt28

I'm sure some people will feel it is contentious and factually flawed and so on. Nevertheless it's here for you to read and make up your own mind.

Tuisceanch · 01-08-2014 06:16PM

LostinKildare wrote: »

The author of that piece, "When Genocide Is Permissible," which was hastily pulled by the Times of Israel, also posted it up on his Facebook page:

https://www.facebook.com/yochanan.gordon.3?fref=browse_search

Some mindset

It seems to have been taken down now.

hju6 · 01-08-2014 06:18PM

This is the way the US is thinking

US Bill Seeks to Exonerate Israel of War Crimes
Submitted by Peter Garcia-Webb on Fri, 2014-08-01 09:54

"The US House of Representatives has passed a resolution that will now go to the Senate. It calls on the international community to recognize and condemn Hamas’ breaches of international law through the use of human shields and condemns the United Nations Human Rights Council’s biased commission of inquiry into Israel’s Gaza operations. There is no evidence that Hamas has used human shields, nor that UNHRC is biased.

The full text is shown below.

The bill has many steps to pass before it becomes Law. But it is important. The House has given Israel the all clear as far as war crimes are concerned. The House has accepted that Israel has gone to extraordinary lengths to target only Hamas actors.

But the current data show that 1,437 Palestinians have been killed, 23% of those were children. And 8,265 Palestinians have been wounded, 30% of those were children. Israel has bombed or shelled hospitals, ambulances, schools, UN facilities, the emergency phone call system, sewerage facilities, water facilities, Gaza's only electricity generating plant, fishing boats and fishing nets, houses, homes, mosques, etc.

Israel has used banned weapons including DIME bombs, tank flechette shells and gas.

In one Bill, the House is attempting to sweep all that aside, and blame the whole thing on Hamas. There is no truth in war.

Such is the strength of the right wing Zionist lobby in the US.

Such are the depths to which democracy in the US has sunk."

https://petergarciawebb.com/peter-garcia-webb/2014-08-01/us-bill-seeks-exonerate-israel-war-crimes

Tuisceanch · 01-08-2014 06:32PM

Wise words!

LostinKildare · 01-08-2014 06:32PM

Tuisceanch wrote: »

It seems to have been taken down now.

Yep, the guy's whole FB page is gone --- it was a public page with lots of identifying info. He's not in Israel BTW --- a New Yorker, went to UConn. I see the piece has been removed from the Five Towns Jewish Times site, too, which has posted the following:

"Editor’s Note
An article that was posted earlier today on our website dealt with the question of genocide in a most irresponsible fashion. We reject any such notion or discussion associated with even entertaining the possibility of such an unacceptable idea.
The piece should have been rejected out of hand by editors but escaped their proper attention. We reject such a suggestion unequivocally and apologize for the error."

I really don't know how editors can have failed to notice an article's TITLE.

Tuisceanch · 01-08-2014 06:34PM

LostinKildare wrote: »

I really don't know how editors can have failed to notice an article's TITLE.

Yes it seems the editorial staff is out of control. I wonder if there are any vacancies?

Moses101 · 01-08-2014 06:35PM

Its getting serious,Kinvara is throwing its lot in with hamas.hope the IDF doesnt mistake it for a threat to its interests.

A Dub in Glasgo · 01-08-2014 06:35PM

hju6 wrote: »

This is the way the US is thinking

US Bill Seeks to Exonerate Israel of War Crimes
Submitted by Peter Garcia-Webb on Fri, 2014-08-01 09:54

"The US House of Representatives has passed a resolution that will now go to the Senate. It calls on the international community to recognize and condemn Hamas’ breaches of international law through the use of human shields and condemns the United Nations Human Rights Council’s biased commission of inquiry into Israel’s Gaza operations. There is no evidence that Hamas has used human shields, nor that UNHRC is biased.

The full text is shown below.

The bill has many steps to pass before it becomes Law. But it is important. The House has given Israel the all clear as far as war crimes are concerned. The House has accepted that Israel has gone to extraordinary lengths to target only Hamas actors.

But the current data show that 1,437 Palestinians have been killed, 23% of those were children. And 8,265 Palestinians have been wounded, 30% of those were children. Israel has bombed or shelled hospitals, ambulances, schools, UN facilities, the emergency phone call system, sewerage facilities, water facilities, Gaza's only electricity generating plant, fishing boats and fishing nets, houses, homes, mosques, etc.

Israel has used banned weapons including DIME bombs, tank flechette shells and gas.

In one Bill, the House is attempting to sweep all that aside, and blame the whole thing on Hamas. There is no truth in war.

Such is the strength of the right wing Zionist lobby in the US.

Such are the depths to which democracy in the US has sunk."

https://petergarciawebb.com/peter-garcia-webb/2014-08-01/us-bill-seeks-exonerate-israel-war-crimes

This has got to be a pi$$ take

Phonehead · 01-08-2014 06:37PM

LostinKildare wrote: »

Yep, the guy's whole FB page is gone --- it was a public page with lots of identifying info. He's not in Israel BTW --- a New Yorker, went to UConn. I see the piece has been removed from the Five Towns Jewish Times site, too, which has posted the following:

"Editor’s Note
An article that was posted earlier today on our website dealt with the question of genocide in a most irresponsible fashion. We reject any such notion or discussion associated with even entertaining the possibility of such an unacceptable idea.
The piece should have been rejected out of hand by editors but escaped their proper attention. We reject such a suggestion unequivocally and apologize for the error."

I really don't know how editors can have failed to notice an article's TITLE.

They most likely didn't see anything wrong with it, it's only when people started their WTF outcry did it register what was wrong with the article.

Frank Lee Midere · 01-08-2014 06:38PM

wes wrote: »

Ah, I was unaware of that, so its not as bad as I taught in regards to Times of Israel, but the fact that an author at all taught that was a good idea, still speaks to something rather awful amongst some people in Israel.

I believe that he represents a significant percentage of Israeli and neo- conservative thought.

hju6 · 01-08-2014 06:41PM

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

This has got to be a pi$$ take

Unfortunately not

https://beta.congress.gov/bill/113th-congress/senate-concurrent-resolution/41/text

A Dub in Glasgo · 01-08-2014 06:47PM

hju6 wrote: »

Unfortunately not

https://beta.congress.gov/bill/113th-congress/senate-concurrent-resolution/41/text

The US may as well be lobbing those shells and missiles into Gaza

bumper234 · 01-08-2014 06:53PM

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

The US may as well be lobbing those shells and missiles into Gaza

Well they do supply a very large % of them.

Frank Lee Midere · 01-08-2014 06:55PM

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

The US may as well be lobbing those shells and missiles into Gaza

Support for israel used to be at about 20% ( always support israel). The support for the palis was < 10%. Everybody else was don't know or don't care. Since 9/11 it's about 51% and growing. Support for Palistine has grown to 13%. Both at the expense of don't knows.

Frank Lee Midere · 01-08-2014 07:04PM

Here is what is happening: Barbara Boxer the liberal junior senator from california - where she is considered liberal by even Californian standards and on the left of the Democratic Party -- was upset and emotional Thursday. Not by images of wanton destruction and dead kids but tardiness in approving more military aid to Israel. There isn't even a hint of reproach to israel from anybody these days.

Boxer tried to get unanimous consent to pass S. 2673, the United States-Israel Strategic Partnership Act, which would have authorized $200 million for U.S. weapons in Israel. But Corker, ranking member of the Senate Foreign Affairs Committee, objected because the bill didn’t go through his committee first.

“I am shocked and deeply saddened that my friend would come here and object,” Boxer said. “My friend told me he would not object.”

Boxer pointed out that the bill, which also expresses the Senate’s support for Israel’s right to defend itself from Hamas rocket attacks, is co-sponsored by 80 percent of the Senate, including lead sponsor Sen. Roy Blunt (R-Mo.).

“If not now, when is the time to pass this legislation?,” Boxer said. “Almost the entire Senate is on it.

“This is an emergency. … I think it is a dark moment when we would walk away from this opportunity to take a stand against terrorism.”

Corker said he was promised a Thursday hearing on the bill but Chairman Bob Menendez (D-N.J.) canceled it because senators started offering last-minute amendments that would kill the bill. The original agreement was that no amendments would be offered in committee.

“I’m emotional now. I don’t know what happened, we had a committee hearing scheduled today,” Corker said. “If it came through committee, I was perfectly fine with it being adopted through unanimous consent.”

Senators are scheduled to leave town Thursday night for the five-week August recess. Boxer wanted to pass this bill before leaving because the Pentagon has asked for $215 million in emergency spending to replenish Israel’s Iron Dome missile supply.

Israel has been fighting off attacks by the terrorist group Hamas for weeks and the conflict continues.

http://thehill.com/blogs/floor-action/senate/213988-boxer-corker-spar-in-heated-exchange-on-israel

RobertKK · 01-08-2014 07:04PM

So what good did the Palestinian kidnapping of an Israeli soldier do for the Palestinian people?

ninebeanrows · 01-08-2014 07:07PM

Obama showing full support for Israel.

Lost a lot of respect for him.

RustyNut · 01-08-2014 07:08PM

RobertKK wrote: »

So what good did the Palestinian kidnapping of an Israeli soldier do for the Palestinian people?

He cant kill any babys now.

dickface · 01-08-2014 07:09PM

RobertKK wrote: »

So what good did the Palestinian kidnapping of an Israeli soldier do for the Palestinian people?

Well they exchanged Gilad Shalit(an Israeli soldier held captive for several years) for ~1,000 Palestinian prisoners a few years ago.
I'm sure that made a lot of Palestinian people happy.

Phonehead · 01-08-2014 07:09PM

Weathercheck wrote: »

Obama showing full support for Israel.

Lost a lot of respect for him.

You still had some or have some

Easily one of the worst to ever hold the position

Israel - Palestine Conflict. **Mod note in OP - updated 1st August**

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Israel - Palestine Conflict. Mod note in OP - updated 1st August