Israel - Palestine Conflict. **Mod note in OP - updated 1st August**

opinionated3 wrote: »

Well I'm not am Islamic terrorist but I can only assume it was to tunnel into the israeli territory to commit acts of terror against the idf and the civilian population. Your theory on it please? ??

No, your just an apologist for the IDF clearly breaking the ceasefire. Now, do you have proof that the IDF were reacting to a immenent attack from that tunnel, as otherwise, they broke the ceasefire, where both sides, you know cease fire....

I get that may be hard for you to understand, when even when the IDF admits that they could give a **** about the ceasefire they agreed to, you still some how manage to blame someone else.

Aurelia Melted Surfer wrote: »

Actually IDF troops were attacked and one captured this morning, its nothing to do with people going outside (The IDF have released a statement re. the captured soldier on twitter this morning).

What a lot of people 'tend to forget is that the resistance in Gaza is fragmented, not all the fighters are under the control of Hamas and so you'll get splinter groups attacking IDF pers.

Another thing, although the cease fire is supposed to be unconditional the Israeli government had issued a statement to say the operation to find tunnels would be ongoing, so its hard to see how Islamic Resistance, Hamas or any other group will stay on cease fire while houses & other properties are being invaded by IDF troops.

Remind me again who killed the babys that were killed today?

People in Dublin, PLEASE get out and show your solidarity with the people of Gaza this Saturday, August 2nd at 2pm. There is a march/rally meeting at the Garden of Remembrance and marching to the Dept of Foreign Affairs.

I was at the last one and there was a great turnout but let's make this even greater.

I can't post a link but all the details are available on the IPSC website/FB page.

Thanks

From broadsheets.ie:

Irishwoman Elaine Bradley is working as a human rights activist in Palestine where she sent us this report this morning.

Elaine writes:

Waking up I turn on my laptop to see what has happened in the while I slept. I am almost instantly hit by an image. I can’t make out if it is one body ripped in two, or two bodies, both missing a number of parts.

By the clothes on one, I am guessing it it is a young man – jeans and a belt that my son might wear. The human remains are against a wall in a pool of blood, draped over with blood soaked sheets. The photo is taken in a hospital, and is accompanied by the bizarre scene of the twisted metal of hospital beds in the total wreckage of what was a ward.

My friend who posted this image declares that he has a policy of not posting gruesome photos, a policy that he has now abandoned. Why? Because “This is the hospital that Israel shelled today… But the BBC felt it was better use of our license fee money to have [reporter] John Simpson show us a broken chandelier in Sderot instead.”

Five people were killed and 70 injured in this place of healing, where men and women work, dedicating their lives to comfort and to mend other sick and broken human beings. I think of my daughter who is a nurse. Hospitals have special status, special protection under international law, as they should. Bombing a hospital is a war crime.

And yet this is the second hospital that Israel has bombed that I am aware of in the two weeks of this onslaught, where one of the world’s most sophisticated military machines has pitted itself against a locked in, half starved civilian population.

Where are the international community? Where are the guardians of the laws demanding that this stop? Yesterday I saw Navi Pillay, High Commissioner for Human Rights with the UN on television. It was in Arabic so I didn’t know what she said. I went to the internet and found her statement.

The bit that jumped out and slapped me in the face was where she expressed her “concern”. Concern? I am concerned about things like the size of my phone bill and whether my cat has settled in to her new home. Concern for Gaza, where now over 570 people have been killed, 80% civilians, last count 132 of them children. Over 3,500 people injured and maimed – a 5 year old with her legs amputated, Concerned? What about outraged? Appalled? Horrified?

The UN are concerned and the mask is off. This latest holocaust against Gaza has exposed a world where our media lie, and spin the truth. Where craven politicians will not stand against power – John Kerry saying Israeli is besieged by Hamas- do I laugh or cry? My own government repeating the zombie mantra about Israel’s right to defend itself as they watch women and children buried in the rubble of their own homes.

And all the while Israel continues its colonisation of Palestine, settling jews from Eastern Europe and the Bronx on land that is not theirs, criminalising – labelling as terrorists the rightful owners, to make their misdeeds acceptable to a willing-to-be-appeased-just-give-us-the-right-soundbite global audience.

Say “Hamas” often enough and no one will notice. Exposed is a world where the institutions of human rights and justice offer platitudes but no action and hold yet another emergency meeting, having never implemented the recommendations of the last report, or the one before, as to do so would “jeopardise the peace process” according to the US and Israel. The ****ing Peace Process?

And while the UN frowns a collective bureaucratic, high salaried, important people in suits doing important things frown of concern, a friend of mine is pulling out the stops, navigating Israel’s impenetrable system of closure to get baby formula into Gaza. From the complications, it is as if he were smuggling crack cocaine inside AK47s.

I haven’t had my coffee yet, haven’t woken up. But I swear, that I will turn my rage into action for justice. Israel cannot once again evade accountability for these crimes. And to all the institutions that have collaborated in this gross injustice, by repeating the lies or by looking the other way, you will crumble and fall. The mask is off and people know.

We have seen that in your system human rights are not for everyone, that one life is precious and another is less than insignificant. We have seen that not all children are treasures to be cherished and childhood is not a sacred space for all children. We have seen that in your world it is ok for homes and places of worship and hospitals to become the killing zones, the tombs of innocent people. We have seen how liars and psychopaths with power are bowed down to. But justice will prevail because now we, the people know.

Elaine Bradley.

I agree that the protest won't make a difference but, as a mother, seeing innocent children being slaughtered in Gaza, I can't just sit here and do nothing. I have to feel as if I'm doing something, however small a gesture.

I have always boycotted israeli goods and I've written to as many politicians as I can and will continue to do so.

The last rally was very peaceful (not hijacked by anyone) so I assume this will be the same.

Philosophical question
People asking to boycott Israeli goods I have a question. Lets say you are married and have a few kids who rely on your paycheck for everything otherwise you are homeless. now you work for a company that has close ties with an Israeli firm and you have to work with Israelis, would you follow your own advice and refuse to work with the Israelis, and most likely get fired to feel better but let your own family suffer?

Liberalbrehon wrote: »

Philosophical question
People asking to boycott Israeli goods I have a question. Lets say you are married and have a few kids who rely on your paycheck for everything otherwise you are homeless. now you work for a company that has close ties with an Israeli firm and you have to work with Israelis, would you follow your own advice and refuse to work with the Israelis, and most likely get fired to feel better but let your own family suffer?

This is a perfect example of why the "the free market regulates itself" argument from the right is such BS. You can't rely on people to always make moral decisions if those decisions will hurt them or those close to them, hence why we need laws and regulations to force companies to make moral decisions.

Nothing pisses me off more than that ridiculous argument about the free market being enough to enforce ethics on companies. Sorry this post is off topic, but I feel your post has perfectly underlined a common fallacy.

Rightwing wrote: »

No one cares though (as in politicians).

If people went to their supermarkets and didn't buy Israeli produce, the Israelis know they are losing the war.

Remember the airport, they wanted flights back in asap. That hurt more than a rocket, It all boils back to Economics.

People feel they need to do something though.

There has been an attempt in recent years to portray all protests as a 'waste of time' and attended by a 'certain type of person'.

You don't need to march under any banner, you don't need to walk beside anyone you don't want to. Make your own banner to march under if you like, walk with your family and friends or beside a banner that you support.
The important thing is showing solidarity with the Palestinian people because our own government are failing them right now.

Upcoming Events

If you can't make and events, you can also help boycott as many Israeli products as you can

Boycott Israel

You can also sign a petition to

Expel the Israeli Ambassador to Ireland

Keeping pressure on our Minister for Foreign Affairs

Charles (Charlie) Flanagan

Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade
Iveagh House
80 St Stephen’s Green Dublin 2
Telephone: + 353 (0) 1 408 2000
Email: charles.flanagan@oir.ie

Constituency Details
Lismard Court, Portlaoise, Co. Laois
Telephone: 057-8620232

wes wrote: »

I don't really understand where people have gotten this idea that boycott is a way of life. If you can't boycott something, because it would make you homeless, then don't do it. I sure as hell wouldn't judge someone in such a situation.

Sorry, but I have seen variations on this being asked again and again. BTW, the boycott call is targeted, like all boycott calls are, specifically against companies involved in the settlements.

Is there a list of company's or goods that people can avoid if they feel it appropriate?

Highflyer13 wrote: »

Not a waste of time. Dont try and shout it down. If enough people attend Government policy will be influenced. Personally I feel far more compelled to protest over the murder of children than I did when our economy crashed which believe me affected me badly. A boycott will happen as awareness is raised which protests help to do, so please don't belittle them.

This. The main point lost on the "protests accomplish nothing" naysayers is that increased publicity = increased political pressure.