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Israel - Palestine Conflict. **Mod note in OP - updated 1st August**

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Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,823 ✭✭✭WakeUp


    How silly of me to assume it was Israeli bombs in causing all the damage in Gaza:

    "In recent years most of humanity has become more tolerant of groups who once seemed to be on the margins of society. But until now it’s still been acceptable to be offensive about one minority: the child murdering community.

    At last it seems the mood is changing, and finally we’re beginning to hear the child murderers’ point of view.

    For example one brave soul, prepared to speak out, is spokesman Uri Dromi, who explained on Radio 4 yesterday that although the Israeli government bombed a school that several children died in, the deaths are clearly the fault of the people who live in the areas being bombed.

    What a refreshing change from that tired old thinking that always blames murder on the murderer. Mister Drome, once a spokesman for the Israeli government, said the Israelis were “lured into a trap, now Hamas sheds crocodile tears about the dead”.

    If only more of us understood bombed schools in this way. We always rush to judge some poor kid in an American town who mows down his classmates, without even pausing to consider the dead kids probably tricked him into it, and now to make it worse their parents are all pretending to cry.

    Even more imaginative was Michael Oren, ex-Israeli ambassador to the US, on Channel 4 News. He explained that Hamas was to blame for all this death, because “toasters and refrigerators have been booby-trapped”.

    It goes to show you should never make up your mind too quickly. Many of us see pictures of buildings reduced to rubble with a bomb sticking out, and hastily conclude the bomb had something to do with the explosion. But look carefully and it becomes obvious it was caused by the silly sods blowing themselves up with a toaster.

    As the bombing continues I expect we’ll hear more reasons why the Palestinians are to blame for being bombed. An Israeli minister will say, “These people in Gaza are always complaining that they live in a densely populated area, so we’re trying to help them out by reducing the population as much as we can to give them more space. But they’re still not happy. Some people are never satisfied.”

    As times change, maybe Netanyahu and his spokesmen will become more forthright, and organise “Child Murderer Pride” in which child murderers can get together for a procession and carnival, where they can at last feel safe, and no longer feel looked down on for carrying out their basic human right to bomb a school to bits."
    http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/how-silly-of-me-to-assume-it-was-israeli-bombs-causing-all-the-damage-in-gaza-9640905.html


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,101 ✭✭✭Rightwing


    Ruled by religious fanatics?

    Why aren't you equally tarring Israel as "religious fanatics" - they don't even use the term "West Bank", they refer to the Land of Israel as "Judea and Samaria"; their pretext for settlements is religiously sanctioned according to them.

    And the future of Gazans would not improve if Hamas surrendered tomorrow. This conflict has been going on a long time before Hamas got to power; and it'll continue long after Hamas are gone.

    The day will come when someone gives Hamas chemical or biological warfare. That's the situation they are walking/bombing themselves into.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,563 ✭✭✭SeaBreezes


    South Africa passes a law that ensures all good made in the illegal settlements are clearly labelled, so people are aware where they are made?

    Israel has a canary. Calls in the South African Ambassador for a meeting.



    Impressed with South Africa. Fair Play. They stand up to Apartheid and abuse.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    Rightwing wrote: »
    The day will come when someone gives Hamas chemical or biological warfare. That's the situation they are walking/bombing themselves into.
    Or they could even give them nuclear weapons. Ya know, like the US illegally gave to Israel?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,101 ✭✭✭Rightwing


    Dan_Solo wrote: »
    Or they could even give them nuclear weapons. Ya know, like the US illegally gave to Israel?

    That would be unlikely, but it would be Iran if it were to happen.

    Indeed, the US have a lot to answer for in this whole mess.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 23,682 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    Apparently it's the Palestinians fault for the breakdown of the ceasefire
    The Israeli military has told people in Gaza it is resuming operations, saying Hamas broke a planned 72-hour ceasefire just hours after it had begun.

    The army said it had warned residents to stay indoors.

    Palestinian sources said at least 27 people had been killed in an Israeli attack in Gaza. Israel said it was in response to rocket fire from Hamas.

    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-28603599

    So the Ceasefire was supposed to be so that the people of Gaza could resupply with food, seek medical attention and bury their dead, but the Israeli army attacked them because they dared to go outside...
    But the Gaza health ministry reported that at least 27 Palestinians were killed and 100 injured in an Israeli attack near the southern town of Rafah after the ceasefire began.

    AFP news agency said the artillery barrage was continuing, preventing medics from recovering dead and wounded from the site.
    27 dead (Al Jazeera are reporting 40 deaths) and a hundred injured in a single attack by the Israelis?
    What in hell are they trying to do?

    Chomsky(2017) on the Republican party

    "Has there ever been an organisation in human history that is dedicated, with such commitment, to the destruction of organised human life on Earth?"



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,563 ✭✭✭SeaBreezes


    Genocide.

    Starve/die of thirst in your own homes away from the cameras and dont let the world know what monsters we have become.

    Shameful.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,101 ✭✭✭Rightwing


    SeaBreezes wrote: »
    Genocide.

    Starve/die of thirst in your own homes away from the cameras and dont let the world know what monsters we have become.

    Shameful.

    It's not us, it's our leaders.

    Even in America, most are against this war. But the jews are rich and are powerful and will fill Obama's pockets with gold.

    People trust their leaders too much, they should be treated with contempt until they prove otherwise.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,671 ✭✭✭dav3


    It is interesting how the death of children is now being reported by some media.

    What had started with reports such as '40 Palestinians dead after shelling by Israel, among them were 20 children'.

    We now have reports such as '40 Palestinian people killed in an explosion', followed with a denial by Israel.

    Half the population of Gaza are children.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_the_Palestinian_territories#Age_structure_2

    It's small, it's subtle, but the propaganda is there. Dead babies and dead children don't win you illegal wars, they are now rolled into one with "people".

    Why do some media outlets now report like this? Well we all know the answer, but it's probably a good idea that you also ask them the question yourself.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,020 ✭✭✭BlaasForRafa


    Akrasia wrote: »
    Apparently it's the Palestinians fault for the breakdown of the ceasefire

    Yes, it is. http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/1.608331
    http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/183606#.U9t1DvldV8E

    After the ceasefire went into effect, terrorists from Gaza attacked IDF forces killing 5 and it's feared that they have captured one soldier. It looks like abducting an Israeli is more important than the welfare of Gazans.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 24,608 ✭✭✭✭arybvtcw0eolkf


    Akrasia wrote: »
    Apparently it's the Palestinians fault for the breakdown of the ceasefire



    So the Ceasefire was supposed to be so that the people of Gaza could resupply with food, seek medical attention and bury their dead, but the Israeli army attacked them because they dared to go outside...

    Actually IDF troops were attacked and one captured this morning, its nothing to do with people going outside (The IDF have released a statement re. the captured soldier on twitter this morning).

    What a lot of people 'tend to forget is that the resistance in Gaza is fragmented, not all the fighters are under the control of Hamas and so you'll get splinter groups attacking IDF pers.

    Another thing, although the cease fire is supposed to be unconditional the Israeli government had issued a statement to say the operation to find tunnels would be ongoing, so its hard to see how Islamic Resistance, Hamas or any other group will stay on cease fire while houses & other properties are being invaded by IDF troops.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 10,250 ✭✭✭✭bumper234


    SeaBreezes wrote: »
    South Africa passes a law that ensures all good made in the illegal settlements are clearly labelled, so people are aware where they are made?

    Israel has a canary. Calls in the South African Ambassador for a meeting.



    Impressed with South Africa. Fair Play. They stand up to Apartheid and abuse.

    EVERY country should insist on this!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,199 ✭✭✭✭Zebra3


    Yes, it is. http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/1.608331
    http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/183606#.U9t1DvldV8E

    After the ceasefire went into effect, terrorists from Gaza attacked IDF forces killing 5 and it's feared that they have captured one soldier. It looks like abducting an Israeli is more important than the welfare of Gazans.

    IDF.

    Israeli "Defence" Force.

    How Orwellian.

    And boo hoo, soldier from invading army is taken as a PoW.

    How many Palestinians have been kidnapped by Israel for no reason?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 10,250 ✭✭✭✭bumper234


    Yes, it is. http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/1.608331
    http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/183606#.U9t1DvldV8E

    After the ceasefire went into effect, terrorists from Gaza attacked IDF forces killing 5 and it's feared that they have captured one soldier. It looks like abducting an Israeli is more important than the welfare of Gazans.

    How many Palestinians are being illegally held right now? Don't want to get captured? Don't be part of an illegal occupation force.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,624 ✭✭✭Little CuChulainn


    Yes, it is. http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/1.608331
    http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/183606#.U9t1DvldV8E

    After the ceasefire went into effect, terrorists from Gaza attacked IDF forces killing 5 and it's feared that they have captured one soldier. It looks like abducting an Israeli is more important than the welfare of Gazans.

    You just don't get it. You are justifying the slaughter of civilians by blaming them for the acts of a terrorist organisation. Would the British have been justified in bombing republican areas of Belfast after the Brighton Bombing?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,609 ✭✭✭✭My name is URL


    bumper234 wrote: »
    EVERY country should insist on this!

    The EU were supposed to introduce that very same law last year sometime.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/israel/10198109/EU-to-label-products-from-Israeli-settlements.html

    Not sure what the hold up is


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,101 ✭✭✭Rightwing


    bumper234 wrote: »
    EVERY country should insist on this!

    Some have, including companies.

    Well worth a read.

    http://www.economist.com/news/briefing/21610312-pummelling-gaza-has-cost-israel-sympathy-not-just-europe-also-among-americans


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,020 ✭✭✭BlaasForRafa


    You just don't get it. You are justifying the slaughter of civilians by blaming them for the acts of a terrorist organisation. Would the British have been justified in bombing republican areas of Belfast after the Brighton Bombing?

    You don't get it. Hamas and Islamic Jihad and their cronies are to blame for the results of their actions.

    Despite the hysterical lies on here that "Israel broke the ceasefire", it's proven that palestinian forces did it yet that's seemingly ok because well Israel m'kay.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 9,638 ✭✭✭Padraig Mor


    You don't get it. Hamas and Islamic Jihad and their cronies are to blame for the results of their actions.

    Despite the hysterical lies on here that "Israel broke the ceasefire", it's proven that palestinian forces did it yet that's seemingly ok because well Israel m'kay.

    Typical Israeli shill logic.

    IDF conduct an operation in Gaza after truce = well, that's fine.
    Militants react to this incursion = "oh my God, the terrorists broke the truce!!!!!"

    I sometimes wonder how those who excuse Israel's actions sleep at night.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,199 ✭✭✭✭Zebra3


    You don't get it. Hamas and Islamic Jihad and their cronies are to blame for the results of their actions.

    Despite the hysterical lies on here that "Israel broke the ceasefire", it's proven that palestinian forces did it yet that's seemingly ok because well Israel m'kay.

    And Israel is never to blame for its crimes.

    Ethnic cleansing, mass murder, theft of natural resources, kidnappings....

    All carried out by them long before Hamas existed.

    Oh, and who helped create Hamas????? :rolleyes:


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,749 ✭✭✭✭wes


    You don't get it. Hamas and Islamic Jihad and their cronies are to blame for the results of their actions.

    Despite the hysterical lies on here that "Israel broke the ceasefire", it's proven that palestinian forces did it yet that's seemingly ok because well Israel m'kay.

    You have an interesting interpretation of the facts:
    Gaza militants 'seize Israeli soldier' as ceasefire ends

    --SNIP--
    The Israeli military said the soldier went missing during an attack on forces trying to destroy a tunnel from Gaza built by militants into Israel.
    --SNIP--

    How exactly did Hamas break the truce, when according to the IDF themselves, they were trying to destroy a tunnel, which you know would be a violation of the ceasefire. FFS, at this point, your clearly ignoring the bloody facts...... Seriously, WTF?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 10,250 ✭✭✭✭bumper234


    You don't get it. Hamas and Islamic Jihad and their cronies are to blame for the results of their actions.

    Despite the hysterical lies on here that "Israel broke the ceasefire", it's proven that palestinian forces did it yet that's seemingly ok because well Israel m'kay.

    http://m.rte.ie/news/touch//2014/0801/634537-gaza-ceasefire/
    About two hours into the truce, a Reuters photographer and the Gaza Interior Ministry said Israeli tanks opened fire in the southern Rafah area.
    Around two hours after the truce went into effect, Israeli tanks and artillery opened fire in the southern Rafah area, and a local hospital said 40 people were killed.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,197 ✭✭✭opinionated3


    wes wrote: »
    You have an interesting interpretation of the facts:



    How exactly did Hamas break the truce, when according to the IDF themselves, they were trying to destroy a tunnel, which you know would be a violation of the ceasefire. FFS, at this point, your clearly ignoring the bloody facts...... Seriously, WTF?
    And what would you think was the purpose of the tunnel? ? Like seriously wtf


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 10,250 ✭✭✭✭bumper234


    And what would you think was the purpose of the tunnel? ? Like seriously wtf

    Why don't you tell us. Tell us EXACTLY what the tunnel was for and don't forget to post your evidence.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,563 ✭✭✭SeaBreezes


    You don't get it. Hamas and Islamic Jihad and their cronies are to blame for the results of their actions.

    Despite the hysterical lies on here that "Israel broke the ceasefire", it's proven that palestinian forces did it yet that's seemingly ok because well Israel m'kay.

    The person that fires the trigger that kills a child or innocent civilian is ALWAYS the person to blame. Always.

    Dehumanising doesnt work here.

    Im actually quite surprised.

    We've been involved in these threads for long enough that we all know about the lack of water, lack of food, casual murder of children and atrocities carried out on folk in Gaza that has become daily life there.

    And STILL some people defend the racism, casual murder, and slow deliberate starvation of 2 million adults and children.

    Says it all really.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    Yes, it is. http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/1.608331
    http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/183606#.U9t1DvldV8E

    After the ceasefire went into effect, terrorists from Gaza attacked IDF forces killing 5 and it's feared that they have captured one soldier. It looks like abducting an Israeli is more important than the welfare of Gazans.
    Any sources that aren't, you know, bull**** propaganda ****?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,197 ✭✭✭opinionated3


    Well I'm not am Islamic terrorist but I can only assume it was to tunnel into the israeli territory to commit acts of terror against the idf and the civilian population. Your theory on it please? ??


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    You don't get it. Hamas and Islamic Jihad and their cronies are to blame for the results of their actions.

    Despite the hysterical lies on here that "Israel broke the ceasefire", it's proven that palestinian forces did it yet that's seemingly ok because well Israel m'kay.
    Proven by an IDF propaganda release? Shure.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 44,079 ✭✭✭✭Micky Dolenz


    USA calls for calm,~They are shocked horrified etc etc.

    Washington give go ahead to restock Israel's dwindling ammo stockpile.


    I'm not a top UN peace deal maker or anything, but I think I see something that just might work.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 735 ✭✭✭Tuisceanch


    Rightwing wrote: »

    A quote from the linked article.

    "Meanwhile, on social media and the internet Americans are seeing more reporting that is critical of Israel: if they are so inclined, they can read the Guardian and watch Al-Jazeera. Last month, when NBC tried to reassign a reporter who witnessed an Israeli bombardment that killed four children playing on a Gaza beach, he was reinstated after a furious social-media campaign."

    This is the sort of action that is within the means of most of us. Does anybody know of a central hub for this sort of action and how it could be used to target Irish Politicians who are spreading hate and media outlets that are failing in their duty.


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