Everybody else in the family is at the Commonwealth Games, so why aren't we?

Reekwind · 28-07-2014 02:26PM

Berserker wrote:

We should join the associations of nations with which we have very close financial, cultural, ...... links though. It makes sense

No it doesn't. We already have those links. Our EU treaties and bilateral arrangements already give us vastly greater access to the UK than any Commonwealth nation enjoys. Similarly, we manage quite well with Australia, Canada, India, etc, without the need for the outmoded trappings of empire. As for those Commonwealth nations that we don't have close links to, we've got little in common with them other than shared servitude to London. That is, Ireland is mature enough, as a sovereign independent nation, to select and deal with partners without the need for imperialist nostalgia.

And you also missed the fact that membership isn't free. Members pay dues - Canada, for example, pays approx 10m a year (IIRC). Which isn't including the other costs associated with it (eg allocation of diplomatic resources). I see no chance of the State recouping those costs via improved trading links with Lesotho.

LordSutch wrote:

Glasgow is pulling in the money big time!

It's also spent half a billion on preparing for them.

An Claidheamh · 28-07-2014 02:35PM

Reekwind wrote: »

No it doesn't. We already have those links. Our EU treaties and bilateral arrangements already give us vastly greater access to the UK than any Commonwealth nation enjoys. Similarly, we manage quite well with Australia, Canada, India, etc, without the need for the outmoded trappings of empire. As for those Commonwealth nations that we don't have close links to, we've got little in common with them other than shared servitude to London. That is, Ireland is mature enough, as a sovereign independent nation, to select and deal with partners without the need for imperialist nostalgia.

And you also missed the fact that membership isn't free. Members pay dues - Canada, for example, pays approx 10m a year (IIRC). Which isn't including the other costs associated with it (eg allocation of diplomatic resources). I see no chance of the State recouping those costs via improved trading links with Lesotho.

It's also spent half a billion on preparing for them.

Sssshhhhh Reekwind.

Very close to addressing the ...

http://www.ahigherself.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/elephant-in-the-room-2.jpg

An Claidheamh · 28-07-2014 02:38PM

LordSutch wrote: »

Three Commonwealth sports may well excel in/
Boxing, athletics & swimming.

Glasgow is pulling in the money big time!

Who are you trying to kid Sutch?

Us or yourself?

LordSutch · 28-07-2014 02:50PM

An Claidheamh wrote: »

Who are you trying to kid Sutch?

Us or yourself?

Kidding?

Oh ye of little faith, surely the likes of Katie Taylor would have a good chance of getting a medal, and as regards Glasgow pulling in the money (and the tourists), why wouldn't it?

Karl Stein · 28-07-2014 02:51PM

An Claidheamh wrote: »

Who are you trying to kid Sutch?

Indeed. There is no 'family' in the first place. See, the way L.S. sees it England is both Mother and Father of this bizarre family he has created in his head and Ireland is the wayward teen who hasn't been home in a couple of weeks because some bad men led it astray.

'Mother and Father' were in charge of Ireland when its population halved from 8 million to 4 million with a million dead from starvation. I think this wayward teen has far too much self-respect to be turning up on a fake-ass Jeremy Kyle reunion.

Am oot.

An Claidheamh · 28-07-2014 02:51PM

LordSutch wrote: »

Oh ye of little faith, surely the likes of Katie Taylor would have a good chance of getting a medal? and as regards glasgow pulling in the money (and the tourists), why wouldn't it?

Sutch, she has a good chance of getting a medal in the real Olympics. :rolleyes:

pickarooney · 28-07-2014 02:53PM

LordSutch wrote: »

Kidding?

Oh ye of little faith, surely the likes of Katie Taylor would have a good chance of getting a medal, and as regards Glasgow pulling in the money (and the tourists), why wouldn't it?

She probably has enough real medals at this stage. Not much point making a hugely unpopular political change just to give her a crack at another one.

An Claidheamh · 28-07-2014 02:59PM

pickarooney wrote: »

She probably has enough real medals at this stage. Not much point making a hugely unpopular political change just to give her a crack at another one.

Yeah, but the Brits reek of desperation to get their full empire back.

They'd probably just give Ireland medals.

Reekwind · 28-07-2014 03:03PM

An Claidheamh wrote: »

Sssshhhhh Reekwind.

Very close to addressing the ...

http://www.ahigherself.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/elephant-in-the-room-2.jpg

The irony here is that those cultural and economic links that we do have with the African or Asian members of the Commonwealth either date to the post-Independence period or are the product of Catholic missions. That is, little or nothing to do with any continuing bonds of empire. After all, London didn't exactly encourage a strong Irish industrial export industry when she ruled us.

LordSutch wrote:

Oh ye of little faith, surely the likes of Katie Taylor would have a good chance of getting a medal?

Let's enter her in the Asian Games as well!

I'm sorry but this sentiment has cropped up a few times in this thread so let me be clear: it is absolutely and unequivocally bonkers to reorient a state's foreign policy around the potential of a few athletes winning medals or having the chance to participate in a quadrennial tournament. It's just insane. What next, we're going to apply to join the African Union so that we can take part in the Cup of Nations as well as the European Championship?

(And yes Taylor would be in with an excellent shout of a gold medal in Glasgow. That's because almost all of her main competitors are Eastern European or Asian. Hence there's very little value in a Commonwealth gold :rolleyes:)

An Claidheamh · 28-07-2014 03:05PM

Reekwind wrote: »

The irony here is that those cultural and economic links that we do have with the African or Asian members of the Commonwealth either date to the post-Independence period or are the product of Catholic missions. That is, little or nothing to do with any continuing bonds of empire. After all, London didn't exactly encourage a strong Irish industrial export industry when she ruled us.

Let's enter her in the Asian Games as well!

I'm sorry but this sentiment has cropped up a few times in this thread so let me be clear: it is absolutely and unequivocally bonkers to reorient a state's foreign policy around the potential of a few athletes winning medals or having the chance to participate in a quadrennial tournament. It's just insane. What next, we're going to apply to join the African Union so that we can take part in the Cup of Nations as well as the European Championship?

(And yes Taylor would be in with an excellent shout of a gold medal in Glasgow. That's because almost all of her main competitors are Eastern European or Asian. Hence there's very little value in a Commonwealth gold :rolleyes:)

Tim Henman did win gold for England in those games ... so ....says it all I suppose.

Jimoslimos · 28-07-2014 03:29PM

An Claidheamh wrote: »

Tim Henman did win gold for England in those games ... so ....says it all I suppose.

Did he? What year?

LordSutch · 28-07-2014 03:33PM

Reekwind wrote: »

I'm sorry but this sentiment has cropped up a few times in this thread so let me be clear: it is absolutely and unequivocally bonkers to reorient a state's foreign policy around the potential of a few athletes winning medals or having the chance to participate in a quadrennial tournament. It's just insane. What next, we're going to apply to join the African Union so that we can take part in the Cup of Nations as well as the European Championship?

(And yes Taylor would be in with an excellent shout of a gold medal in Glasgow. That's because almost all of her main competitors are Eastern European or Asian. Hence there's very little value in a Commonwealth gold :rolleyes:)

Hence a previous post of mine suggesting that 90% of boards.ie posters are very anti Commonwealth in their outlook . . .

Either you are pro Games or Anti, I'm pro the Commonwealth, and pro the Commonwealth Games, and I think its time we re-joined and stopped sulking.

Imagine; cuts to four years time and an 'All Ireland' team competes as one united team, namely 'Team Ireland' with competitors from both sides of the border, Unionist & Nationalist, Northern & Southern united on one team Ireland. Surely the very image of this would play a big part in uniting not just the sporting people of this island, but the wider population too (even just for the duration of the games).

Nodin · 28-07-2014 03:40PM

LordSutch wrote: »

Hence a previous post of mine suggesting that 90% of boards.ie posters are very anti Commonwealth in their outlook . . .

Either you are pro Games or Anti, I'm pro the Commonwealth, and pro the Commonwealth Games, and I think its time we re-joined and stopped sulking.

Imagine; cuts to four years time and an 'All Ireland' team competes as one united team, namely 'Team Ireland' with competitors from both sides of the border, Unionist & Nationalist, Northern & Southern united on one team Ireland. Surely the very image of this would play a big part in uniting not just the sporting people of this island, but the wider population too (even just for the duration of the games).

Under the banner of some post-empire club for people whose ancestors were robbed and murdered by a shower of pirates with a good supply of boats? Not likely.

A Dub in Glasgo · 28-07-2014 03:41PM

Jimoslimos wrote: »

Did he? What year?

He will not be able to answer that as he made it up

Reekwind · 28-07-2014 03:47PM

LordSutch wrote: »

Hence a previous post of mine suggesting that 90% of boards.ie posters are very anti Commonwealth in their outlook . . .

Which is a pretty remarkable balance of opinion when you consider the degree that AH usually enjoys beating itself up for being Irish. I can only assume that this is due to the complete failure of anyone in this thread to build a coherent case for (re)joining the Commonwealth or the, not unrelated, ludicrousness of that very concept.

Ireland has problems, of that's there no doubt, but not one of them would be solved by indulging in empire nostalgia. You say that we're "sulking" (as if an anti-English funk is the only possible explanation for our absence), I say that Ireland, as a modern European republic, has no place in that obsolete club of ex-colonies and their former master. Nobody is that desperate for an athletics event in Dublin.

Imagine; cuts to four years time and an 'All Ireland' team competes as one united team, namely 'Team Ireland' with competitors from both sides of the border, Unionist & Nationalist, Northern & Southern united on one team Ireland. Surely the very image of this would play a big part in uniting not just the sporting people of this island, but the wider population too (even just for the duration of the games).

Because all-island teams are only possible in the specific and temporary environment of the Commonwealth Games? If there was any logic in this position at all then Brian O'Driscoll's tears would have healed the border and its divisions long ago.

Jimoslimos · 28-07-2014 03:57PM

LordSutch wrote: »

Imagine; cuts to four years time and an 'All Ireland' team competes as one united team, namely 'Team Ireland' with competitors from both sides of the border, Unionist & Nationalist, Northern & Southern united on one team Ireland. Surely the very image of this would play a big part in uniting not just the sporting people of this island, but the wider population too (even just for the duration of the games).

There's at least three major sporting occasions where the above can occur already, namely the Olympics, World and European championships, and also the cricket and rugby competitions.

At least can you give any other reasons for joining other than participating in a glorified sports day? Membership of the EU and the Council of Europe has done more for this country than the Commonwealth ever would. For example a ruling by the ECHR forced Ireland to amend its laws on homosexuality. In contrast it remains a crime in the vast vast majority of Commonwealth nations.

Yep...sounds like the progressive type of organisation I'd like Ireland to be part of.

Mal-Adjusted · 28-07-2014 04:10PM

Howcome the only time you hear people here moaning about wanting to join the commonwealth is when the games are on? do the people championing it just sort of forget about it until they see it on tv every four years?

CrabRevolution · 28-07-2014 05:22PM

Mal-Adjusted wrote: »

Howcome the only time you hear people here moaning about wanting to join the commonwealth is when the games are on? do the people championing it just sort of forget about it until they see it on tv every four years?

Probably because even the most ardent pro-commonwealth types realise deep down its a pointless organisation to be joining. So despite being an incredibly weak argument, playing in the CW games is the strongest argument they have, so the commonwealth lovers try to make hay while it's on every 4 years.

wazky · 28-07-2014 06:33PM

CrabRevolution wrote: »

Probably because even the most ardent pro-commonwealth types realise deep down its a pointless organisation to be joining. So despite being an incredibly weak argument, playing in the CW games is the strongest argument they have, so the commonwealth lovers try to make hay while it's on every 4 years.

It's really not a strong argument though, let's join the commonwealth to join in on their sports day every couple of years...

Nonsense really.

Dr. Bre · 28-07-2014 06:59PM

pile of ****e games that is all

fryup · 28-07-2014 07:07PM

isn't Paddy Barnes the hypocrite, there he was a few weeks back slaggin off Rory McIllroy questioning his allegiance for taking too long to declare for Ireland

yet he's over in Glasgow fighting for N. I. a british country in the british commonwealth games, smacks of double standards to me

Karl Stein · 28-07-2014 07:21PM

fryup wrote: »

isn't Paddy Barnes the hypocrite

How is it hypocritical exactly? Paddy Barnes is fighting as an Irishman from the jurisdiction of Norniron in the commonwealth games. Unlike McIlroy I don't think Barnes has ever considered declaring for Great Britain.

yet he's over in Glasgow fighting for N. I. a british country in the british commonwealth games, smacks of double standards to me

You might want to brush up on your atrocious geographic and political knowledge. Britain is the island to the east of Ireland. Norniron is a country in the UK not Britain. Britain consists of England, Scotland and Wales.

fryup · 28-07-2014 07:30PM

Karl Stein wrote: »

How is it hypocritical exactly? Paddy Barnes is fighting as an Irishman from the jurisdiction of Norniron in the commonwealth games. Unlike McIlroy I don't think Barnes has ever considered declaring for Great Britain.

You might want to brush up on your atrocious geographic and political knowledge. Britain is the island to the east of Ireland. Norniron is a country in the UK not Britain. Britain consists of England, Scotland and Wales.

UK/Britain oh lets not split hairs on it, at the end of the day norn iron is under british rule...whether we agree with it or not it is british territory, so for that i still think Barnes is a hypocrite

An Claidheamh · 28-07-2014 07:42PM

Jimoslimos wrote: »

Did he? What year?

My mistake.

It was silver in the doubles at the 96 Olympics.

I knew he had a medal from something.

keeponhurling · 28-07-2014 07:42PM

Aside from entering these games, a few people mentioned better relations or trade links with other countries.

Is this based on anything , are there any free trade agreements or anything that exist ?

Karl Stein · 28-07-2014 07:46PM

fryup wrote: »

lets not split hairs on it

Let's be accurate.

at the end of the day norn iron is under british rule..

The north is governed by a devolved assembly it is not 'ruled by the British' as if it were some sort of 18th Century plantation.

whether we agree with it or not it is british territory

It is currently a country in the UK not Britain. You'll note the term 'The United Kingdom of GB and NI' specifically places NI outside GB.

so for that i still think Barnes is a hypocrite

I wish him well and don't think he's a hypocrite. If he had suddenly decided to fight for GB in the Olympics then that would qualify him as a hypocrite.

An Claidheamh · 28-07-2014 07:47PM

keeponhurling wrote: »

Aside from entering these games, a few people mentioned better relations or trade links with other countries.

Is this based on anything , are there any free trade agreements or anything that exist ?

Of course there aren't.

In fact, most of the athletes in Glasgow are being followed by police for fear they will go AWOL.

You couldn't make it up.

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2014/jul/16/two-cameroon-wrestlers-missing-aberdeen-commonwealth-games

That's how they treat their "equals".

Yet Europeans can effectively walk in and out of Britain as we wish.

fryup · 28-07-2014 07:51PM

Karl Stein wrote: »

Let's be accurate.

The north is governed by a devolved assembly it is not 'ruled by the British' as if it were some sort of 18th Century plantation.
.

well it is ruled by the british, London has the final say on matters up north, sterling is the currency, god save the queen is the anthem, the union jack flies over stormont

mmmm seems british to me

A Dub in Glasgo · 28-07-2014 07:52PM

An Claidheamh wrote: »

My mistake.

It was silver in the doubles at the 96 Olympics.

I knew he had a medal from something.

That must mean the Olympics are sh!te then :pac:

A Dub in Glasgo · 28-07-2014 07:53PM

An Claidheamh wrote: »

In fact, most of the athletes in Glasgow are being followed by police for fear they will go AWOL.

You couldn't make it up.

Except you just did

Everybody else in the family is at the Commonwealth Games, so why aren't we?

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