Liverpool Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2014 mod warning linked in OP 26/07

punk_one82 · 24-07-2014 02:14PM

Tusky wrote: »

This is worrying. Stars are stars for a reason - because they are in the very top bracket of player. I don't think we have a single player in that bracket at the moment. We are buying lots of good players but no great players.

http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/premier-league/i-will-not-waste-luis-suarez-cash-on-stars-vows-brendan-rodgers-30455836.html

While I agree stars are stars because of their footballing ability, it doesn't necessarily make them a good fit for any team because they're big names. Examples being Balotelli and Tevez. Great players, household names, absolute poison.

tritium · 24-07-2014 02:17PM

Tusky wrote: »

This is worrying. Stars are stars for a reason - because they are in the very top bracket of player. I don't think we have a single player in that bracket at the moment. We are buying lots of good players but no great players.

http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/premier-league/i-will-not-waste-luis-suarez-cash-on-stars-vows-brendan-rodgers-30455836.html

Nothing too contentious in that piece tbh, basically saying we won't be taken for mugs in the transfer market. We'd all love marquee signings but look at the attitude of some clubs marquee players over the years. Robinho didn't give a sh1t for city, Veron just never worked for united. Chelsea have had lots just sit on the training bench drawing 100k. Don't get me wrong if a big player wants to come for the right reasons I love them to join, but I suspect BR actually feels the same. I just want to know that they want to earn the opportunity rather than kick up their heels and look forward to buying their newest Ferrari.

murpho999 · 24-07-2014 02:27PM

Don't get this need for a 'star' or 'marquee' signing.

We arguably haven't had one at LFC since Torres, although Liverpool made him a better player.

Same with Suarez.

People baulked at Sturridge signing last year but wouldn't want him leaving now.

Think Liverpool create more stars than actually sign.

LuckyLloyd · 24-07-2014 02:28PM

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

Well next season is going to be fun by the looks of this thread

Sir Gallagher wrote: »

Check in on Tuesday on Wednesday nights, there'll be plenty of chat to be had.

:pac:

Utopia Parkway · 24-07-2014 02:39PM

murpho999 wrote: »

Think Liverpool create more stars than actually sign.

Always have done. Even during the 70's and 80's.

Buy players when they are young and upcoming, develop them and often sell them at their peak.

Vanolder · 24-07-2014 02:43PM

Tusky wrote: »

This is worrying. Stars are stars for a reason - because they are in the very top bracket of player. I don't think we have a single player in that bracket at the moment. We are buying lots of good players but no great players.

http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/premier-league/i-will-not-waste-luis-suarez-cash-on-stars-vows-brendan-rodgers-30455836.html

Games within games... no one knows who we are targetting or who we may actually already be in talks with... Clubs know we have money... B-Rod playing it cool, that's the job.

Knex* · 24-07-2014 03:08PM

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

:pac:

Yesterday was a good day, until things suddenly went Chris Martin and Coldplay up in here, and it was all yellow.

8-10 · 24-07-2014 03:08PM

murpho999 wrote: »

Don't get this need for a 'star' or 'marquee' signing.

We arguably haven't had one at LFC since Torres, although Liverpool made him a better player.

Same with Suarez.

People baulked at Sturridge signing last year but wouldn't want him leaving now.

Think Liverpool create more stars than actually sign.

I actually disagree that Liverpool made Suarez into a better player. The reason he got better was playing in a better league. He's of the quality that would have thrived at any number of clubs and been as good as he is today. I actually think he'd be better now if he'd played Champions League football. How long since he's played CL? 4 years? And never in the knockouts.

I'm hugely looking forward to seeing him play next season, I think he'll tear it up in champions league

jasonb · 24-07-2014 03:08PM

Brendan Rodgers wrote:

"If that means we do not spend all the money or the net spend is the same, then so be it."

Here we go again...

J.

LuckyLloyd · 24-07-2014 03:16PM

Knex. wrote: »

Yesterday was a good day, until Chris Martin and Coldplay came on, and suddenly it was all yellow.

Ha! You can't beat the perfect ownage post though. The wonderful moment where a jibe is taken and fashioned as an unintended weapon by the jibee.

5ForKeeps · 24-07-2014 03:17PM

8-10 wrote: »

I actually disagree that Liverpool made Suarez into a better player. The reason he got better was playing in a better league. He's of the quality that would have thrived at any number of clubs and been as good as he is today. I actually think he'd be better now if he'd played Champions League football. How long since he's played CL? 4 years? And never in the knockouts.

I'm hugely looking forward to seeing him play next season, I think he'll tear it up in champions league

Arguably you could say Brendan Rodgers incorporated a system around Suarez got the best out of Suarez. Works both ways, under Kenny Suarez couldn't a hit barn door. He and Rodgers were in the right place and time, both reaped the benefits.

Financially we did and he got his move. So works both ways.

I am pie · 24-07-2014 03:22PM

We might yet have a few who kick on to become really world class. It's impossible to predict, those that at least have the potential imho are Sterling and Coutinho.

We'll need to be very carefully with Sterling re: injuries and burnout. Others might emerge, but right now I think those 2 have the most potential to continue improving. Sturridge, as much as I like him, is probably at his peek. He's a great premier league striker, but I dont think he'll kick on to become a player coveted by the European elite. Sterling could if he continues his current trajectory.

I am pie · 24-07-2014 03:25PM

5ForKeeps wrote: »

Arguably you could say Brendan Rodgers incorporated a system around Suarez got the best out of Suarez. Works both ways, under Kenny Suarez couldn't a hit barn door. He and Rodgers were in the right place and time, both reaped the benefits.

Financially we did and he got his move. So works both ways.

Will be very interesting at Barca. Messi & Neymar alone demand a fair bit of the ball. What is Enrique going to do with the 3 of them. Will he risk annoying little lord leo and playing Suarez centrally?

Some challenge to find balance and harmony at Barca this year.

murpho999 · 24-07-2014 03:28PM

8-10 wrote: »

I actually disagree that Liverpool made Suarez into a better player. The reason he got better was playing in a better league. He's of the quality that would have thrived at any number of clubs and been as good as he is today. I actually think he'd be better now if he'd played Champions League football. How long since he's played CL? 4 years? And never in the knockouts.

I'm hugely looking forward to seeing him play next season, I think he'll tear it up in champions league

Of course...that's why his value went from £23m to £75m

Limestone1 · 24-07-2014 03:31PM

Utopia Parkway wrote: »

Always have done. Even during the 70's and 80's.

Buy players when they are young and upcoming, develop them and often sell them at their peak.

Er , I think thats arsenal .......

p38 · 24-07-2014 03:42PM

Star players are great to have but I believe it is teams that win things and teams that make stars out of players. I think B Rodgers is going about things the right way and look forward to the new season. Only major concern is at the back didnt see any of the Roma game how did we look as a defensive unit. First post here so Hi to all looking forward to a interesting season

I am pie · 24-07-2014 03:44PM

p38 wrote: »

Star players are great to have but I believe it is teams that win things and teams that make stars out of players. I think B Rodgers is going about things the right way and look forward to the new season. Only major concern is at the back didnt see any of the Roma game how did we look as a defensive unit. First post here so Hi to all looking forward to a interesting season

Not particularly convincing. Hopefully see Sahko and Skrtel next game, need to get this Lovren business wrapped up sharpish or change tack and buy someone else.

8-10 · 24-07-2014 03:45PM

murpho999 wrote: »

Of course...that's why his value went from £23m to £75m

Yes, because he was playing in a better league. He was already outstanding in the Dutch league by the 10/11 season and needed to move on, he'd essentially out-grown it. Had he gone to United, Arsenal, Chelsea, City or Spurs back then I reckon he'd still have gone for huge money this summer.

I agree that Liverpool made Torres better, and I agree that Liverpool's system didn't hold Suarez back. I just think his talent is such that it's not just down to the club, had he gone elsewhere he'd still be good enough to go to a Barca.

NukaCola · 24-07-2014 03:48PM

I'm happy enough for BR to build his own squad. I think he deserves to do it the way he wants. I might not agree with some of the signings and fee's etc but i am interested to see how BR builds his LFC squad.

Raif Severance · 24-07-2014 03:50PM

Just seen the Replay of our Friendly with Roma, and I've already taken a liking to Can.

Strong on the Ball, and wilingly Drives it to the Teeth of the Defense.

We've never had a Midfielder like that. Not since the Days of Gerrard's Captain Fantastic.

Can't wait to see us Play, with a Midfield Setup like this:

Hendo (DLM) Can (CM)
Lallana (AM)

That's a Midfield with alot of Thrust and Workrate.

kfallon · 24-07-2014 03:55PM

Raif Severance wrote: »

We've never had a Midfielder like that. Not since the Days of Gerrard's Captain Fantastic.

So what you're saying is we have had a midfielder like that :pac:

Underpaid Mike · 24-07-2014 03:57PM

8-10 wrote: »

Yes, because he was playing in a better league. He was already outstanding in the Dutch league by the 10/11 season and needed to move on, he'd essentially out-grown it. Had he gone to United, Arsenal, Chelsea, City or Spurs back then I reckon he'd still have gone for huge money this summer.

I agree that Liverpool made Torres better, and I agree that Liverpool's system didn't hold Suarez back. I just think his talent is such that it's not just down to the club, had he gone elsewhere he'd still be good enough to go to a Barca.

Kuyt scored 71 goals in 101 games in the dutch league
Suarez scored 81 goals in 110 games
By your reckoning Kuyt was inevitably going to become a world class player by playing in a bigger team and getting CL football. Definitely doesnt work like that at all.

I am pie · 24-07-2014 03:59PM

8-10 wrote: »

Yes, because he was playing in a better league. He was already outstanding in the Dutch league by the 10/11 season and needed to move on, he'd essentially out-grown it. Had he gone to United, Arsenal, Chelsea, City or Spurs back then I reckon he'd still have gone for huge money this summer.

I agree that Liverpool made Torres better, and I agree that Liverpool's system didn't hold Suarez back. I just think his talent is such that it's not just down to the club, had he gone elsewhere he'd still be good enough to go to a Barca.

He is at Barca because Rogers played a system where the ball got to him quickly, to his feet and whilst opponents were backtracking. Our pacy counter attacking football was tailor made for him.

Would he have had as good a season playing for Moyes last year? Probably not, he'd have spent the year watching Valencia clip crosses over his head.

I dont know that he got much extra in terms of skills and new tactics, but we put him in the spotlight by playing an attacking brand of football that not many other clubs were doing.

Knex* · 24-07-2014 04:00PM

Underpaid Mike wrote: »

Kuyt scored 71 goals in 101 games in the dutch league
Suarez scored 81 goals in 110 games
By your reckoning Kuyt was inevitably going to become a world class player by playing in a bigger team and getting CL football. Definitely doesnt work like that at all.

I really dislike these type of comparisons. Kuyt and Suarez, even just in their time in Holland, were two completely different players, and the expectations for both of them were rightly different.

The Kezman, Alves arguments, when looking at Suarez, do my nut in.

Anyway, aside from that, 8-10's point was different to that of just production, and is fairly valid, in my eyes. We're talking about the third best player in the World right now. That talent isn't circumstantial.

NEDDURC · 24-07-2014 04:01PM

What position did Can play last night?
I know he came on for Borini and I've seen his run down the left wing. Was it on the left?

taidghbaby · 24-07-2014 04:03PM

Underpaid Mike wrote: »

Kuyt scored 71 goals in 101 games in the dutch league
Suarez scored 81 goals in 110 games
By your reckoning Kuyt was inevitably going to become a world class player by playing in a bigger team and getting CL football. Definitely doesnt work like that at all.

Alfonso Alves says hello

I am pie · 24-07-2014 04:05PM

Raif Severance wrote: »

Just seen the Replay of our Friendly with Roma, and I've already taken a liking to Can.

Strong on the Ball, and wilingly Drives it to the Teeth of the Defense.

We've never had a Midfielder like that. Not since the Days of Gerrard's Captain Fantastic.

Can't wait to see us Play, with a Midfield Setup like this:

Hendo (DLM) Can (CM)
Lallana (AM)

That's a Midfield with alot of Thrust and Workrate.

Henderson won't play there, didn't last season. Gerrard did. Next year will be

Gerrard + Henderson
Lallana

Gerrard will be phased out by Can in time, but it won't happen overnight. Gerrard is the club captain and will play most of the season, Can is a new 20 yr old with limited playing time ahead of him this year.

Henderson doesn't have the passing game to play DLM, he is better in the CM role supporting Lallana and providing extra cover at the back. His mobility is one of his biggest assets and to shackle him in a deeper position is a mistake that BR wouldnt make.

Maybe I'm wrong, but it's not a position he has played for us or previously for Sunderland.

NEDDURC · 24-07-2014 04:11PM

I am pie wrote: »

Henderson won't play there, didn't last season. Gerrard did. Next year will be

Gerrard + Henderson
Lallana

Gerrard will be phased out by Can in time, but it won't happen overnight. Gerrard is the club captain and will play most of the season, Can is a new 20 yr old with limited playing time ahead of him this year.

Henderson doesn't have the passing game to play DLM, he is better in the CM role supporting Lallana and providing extra cover at the back. His mobility is one of his biggest assets and to shackle him in a deeper position is a mistake that BR wouldnt make.

Maybe I'm wrong, but it's not a position he has played for us or previously for Sunderland.

I'd also expect our best mid / forwards currently to be:

Gerrard Henderson
Lallana Coutinho Markovic
Sturidge

Underpaid Mike · 24-07-2014 04:13PM

NEDDURC wrote: »

I'd also expect our best mid / forwards currently to be:

Gerrard Henderson
Lallana Coutinho Markovic
Sturidge

Surely sterling will start ahead of markovic ? At least in the first half of the season till the new lad cuts his teeth in a new league

5live · 24-07-2014 04:15PM

p38 wrote: »

Star players are great to have but I believe it is teams that win things and teams that make stars out of players. I think B Rodgers is going about things the right way and look forward to the new season. Only major concern is at the back didnt see any of the Roma game how did we look as a defensive unit. First post here so Hi to all looking forward to a interesting season

Welcome.

Its always interesting here, even for the wrong reasons.

Panda saps have vacancies arising every day now...:(

Liverpool Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2014 *mod warning linked in OP 26/07*

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Liverpool Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2014 mod warning linked in OP 26/07