Those damn cyclists again!

magicbastarder · 20-07-2014 08:45AM

if you're able to find any studies that show the benefits of cycling are outweighed by the risks, please bring them to the party.

magicbastarder · 20-07-2014 08:57AM

i found suggestions of a lack of benefit in certain contexts:

At older ages (45-59 years), the benefits of cycling were much larger than the harms. But in the youngest age group (15-29 years), the medium term benefits and harms of cycling in central London were both comparatively small and potentially negative.

When the researchers analyzed the results by sex, they found smaller benefits among women, largely reflecting higher background fatal injury rates for female cyclists in central London. The authors stress that these results by age and sex relate to cycling in general in central London, not specifically to cycling on the hire bikes.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/02/140213184816.htm

cython · 20-07-2014 09:38AM

dubscottie wrote: »

Illegal now according to statute.ie… 2011 not the old 1964 act cyclist keep quoting!

article 47 (as amended by Regulation 3 of the Road Traffic (Traffic and Parking) (Amendment) (No. 2) Regulations 2011 ( S.I. No. 673 of 2011 )) the following:

“Pedal cyclists

47. (1) A pedal cyclist shall not drive a pedal cycle on a roadway in such a manner as to result in more than 2 pedal cyclists driving abreast, save when overtaking other pedal cyclists, and then only if to do so will not endanger, inconvenience or obstruct other traffic or pedestrians.

(2) Pedal cyclists on a roadway shall cycle in single file when overtaking other traffic.

So you think that obliges any cyclist to pull in if the driver behind feel they are being obstructed? Get real! Point 2 in that is clear enough to need no further explanation, but applying simple incremental application of the statements in point 1, you get the following breakdown:

Cyclists should not cycle any more than 2 abreast under normal circumstances
The exception to this is if they are overtaking
This overtaking should only be done "if to do so will not endanger, inconvenience or obstruct other traffic or pedestrians.

It's pretty simple application of grammar. Factoring point 2 in to the above means that cyclists should be no more than 3 abreast at any time, and even then only for as long as is needed to overtake.

So at no point is a single cyclist, or even a pair two abreast legally obliged to pull in completely, or to ride single file because some driver is getting the hump behind them.

Jawgap · 20-07-2014 10:04AM

cython wrote: »

So you think that obliges any cyclist to pull in if the driver behind feel they are being obstructed? Get real! Point 2 in that is clear enough to need no further explanation, but applying simple incremental application of the statements in point 1, you get the following breakdown:
Cyclists should not cycle any more than 2 abreast under normal circumstances

The exception to this is if they are overtaking

This overtaking should only be done "if to do so will not endanger, inconvenience or obstruct other traffic or pedestrians.

It's pretty simple application of grammar. Factoring point 2 in to the above means that cyclists should be no more than 3 abreast at any time, and even then only for as long as is needed to overtake.

So at no point is a single cyclist, or even a pair two abreast legally obliged to pull in completely, or to ride single file because some driver is getting the hump behind them.

I would've thought that if someone felt a bunch of cyclists was transgressing this law they'd just ring Trafficwatch (1890 205 805) or the local station.

Despite what cyclists think - they don't move that fast, so it should be easy enough for the Guards, if called, to despatch a car (or motorbike) to deal with this 'dangerous' behaviour.........

RainyDay · 20-07-2014 10:27AM

magicbastarder wrote: »

here's a fact that will blow motorist's minds - the time you are held up by cyclists is far, far, far outweighed by the time you are held up by other motorists.
and in fact, the biggest holdup to those other motorists is - wait for it - motorists like you.
i'm constantly amazed and bemused by people's complaints about being held up by cyclists for a grand total of probably three or four minutes a week, when they spend several hours a week staring at the back of someone else's car, and breathing their exhaust gases.

This really is the bottom line. What what makes it even more amazing and bemusing, is that it is very much in the motorists interests to have more cyclists out there. If these cyclists get browned off having their lives threatened daily by bad or selfish driving.drop their bikes and get back into their cars, the other motorists will be held up even more, and for longer.

100200 shih wrote: »

You have cycle lanes there, what you complaining about ? I do not think you cycle 160 km per day either so you cant really compare cycling a few km around Dublin city with driving around Connemara

It's either quite some time since you've been in Dublin, or your observation skills are poor (like many drivers). Cycle lanes are the exception, not the rule. Where they exist, they are often littered with broken glass, pedestrians, dog walkers with the lead stretched across the lane, or 'rollercoaster' effects like the N11 where the cycle lane goes up and down at every house. They are often unusuable. For my 8k commute, there is less than 1k of usuable cycle lane.

And you're right, that few people cycle 160km per day on their commute, though many people do cycle an hour or so each way on their commute - same time as you. And their time is just as important as your time - right?

SeanW wrote: »

As a pedestrian, I could cross a street in Dublin city on a green man without having to yield to some scumbag on a bike.

As a motorist, I would be less likely to be involved in a near-accident, or an accident that I don't cause but get socked for the cost of.

Cyclists are the worst by far advocating draconian, disproportionate, Orwellian enforcement of victimless crime laws on other road users. Even if there were no other benefits - which there is anyway - giving cyclists a taste of their own medicine would be reason enough in my book.

Thanks for the honest answer on this key issue.

For no 1, in my experience in Dublin, it is maybe once or twice a year that I end up having to yield to a cyclist breaking a red light. If I have time to plan, I might 'play chicken' with him/her, just so they don't get too comfortable breaking a red light, or wave my hands to make it hard for them. But it is a fairly rare event.

For no 2, these kinds of 'accidents' also seem very rare. We don't hear the Gardai or the RSA or the motor insurance companies talking about these problems, so I can only assume that they are fairly insignificant in the overall scheme of things.

So number 3 is the honest answer - it is just a bit of a 'revenge' measure, because motorists get frustrated about seeing cyclists fly past them while they are stuck in traffic. Not really the best reason for a legislative change now, is it?

twowheelsgood · 20-07-2014 10:34AM

UCDVet wrote: »

When you include the cost of food / calories burned - cycling sucks.

Surely the obvious extension of that argument is that we should discourage all forms of exercise and become (continue to be?) a nation of fat b*stards? :pac:

And a great many of us already consume more than we need anyway and would continue to do so even if we did not cycle. I certainly have not upped my calorie intake to match what I burn off by cycling. Far from it.

The effect of cycling is to burn up some of these “fuel reserves” from around our waists and that most definitely is beneficial, to the individual in the first place and by extension to society who will face lower health costs.

Mind I should also add that I could live long and happy without the righteousness you get from a tiny number (in my experience) of cyclists.

(And before you introduce my username in evidence against me, you will know, if you get the reference, that said name is followed by fourwheelsbetter!

)

cython · 20-07-2014 10:34AM

Jawgap wrote: »

I would've thought that if someone felt a bunch of cyclists was transgressing this law they'd just ring Trafficwatch (1890 205 805) or the local station.

Despite what cyclists think - they don't move that fast, so it should be easy enough for the Guards, if called, to despatch a car (or motorbike) to deal with this 'dangerous' behaviour.........

Very true, but from my (potentially incorrect) understanding of the poster's point, it seemed there was a risk of reports of laws not actually being broken if people actually heeded it. And let's face it, there are plenty of Gardai, even in the Traffic Corps, whose understanding of the RTA and related legislation leaves something to be desired, seeing as some of them still think we have mandatory use cycle lanes.

100200 shih · 20-07-2014 10:44AM

papu wrote: »

It really isn't any cyclists fault that you chose to live 80km from your place of work ..

It also should not be my problem that there are ignorance cyclist out there every day that they think they own the road or to but it better think they are entitled to do as they wish on the road.

I am not saying all cyclist are.

Jawgap · 20-07-2014 10:51AM

cython wrote: »

Very true, but from my (potentially incorrect) understanding of the poster's point, it seemed there was a risk of reports of laws not actually being broken if people actually heeded it. And let's face it, there are plenty of Gardai, even in the Traffic Corps, whose understanding of the RTA and related legislation leaves something to be desired, seeing as some of them still think we have mandatory use cycle lanes.

True, but if a cyclist or bunch of cyclists is behaving in a way that is hazarding their own, or other road users' safety......as this poster seems to be suggesting.....

100200 shih wrote: »

It also should not be my problem that there are ignorance cyclist out there every day that they think they own the road or to but it better think they are entitled to do as they wish on the road.

I am not saying all cyclist are.

......then a call to Trafficwatch and / or the local station should be made. You don't have to know which law is being broken, only that there is an unsafe situation (actual or potential).

It's a bit weird (imo) that certain posters come on to threads like this to vent about unsafe / dangerous cycling but can't be bothered to pull in a make a quick call to the Guards?

If it's as bad as people are making out, call it in.

100200 shih · 20-07-2014 10:51AM

robertxxx wrote: »

No need i didnt read the first reply, save your ink!

Common theme you have going here then,

100200 shih · 20-07-2014 10:57AM

Jawgap wrote: »

True, but if a cyclist or bunch of cyclists is behaving in a way that is hazarding their own, or other road users' safety......as this poster seems to be suggesting.....

......then a call to Trafficwatch and / or the local station should be made. You don't have to know which law is being broken, only that there is an unsafe situation (actual or potential).

It's a bit weird (imo) that certain posters come on to threads like this to vent about unsafe / dangerous cycling but can't be bothered to pull in a make a quick call to the Guards?

If it's as bad as people are making out, call it in.

You do release that not all of us here live in Dublin & the nearest OPEN guard station could be 40 / 50 miles away.

100200 shih · 20-07-2014 11:00AM

Jawgap wrote: »

I would've thought that if someone felt a bunch of cyclists was transgressing this law they'd just ring Trafficwatch (1890 205 805) or the local station.

Despite what cyclists think - they don't move that fast, so it should be easy enough for the Guards, if called, to despatch a car (or motorbike) to deal with this 'dangerous' behaviour.........

You do release that not all of us here live in Dublin & the nearest OPEN guard station could be 40 / 50 miles away.

Jawgap · 20-07-2014 11:03AM

100200 shih wrote: »

You do release that not all of us here live in Dublin & the nearest OPEN guard station could be 40 / 50 miles away.

I don't live in Dublin.....and I travel nearly 25,000 km each year with my job, along all the different types of road this country has to offer......

Plus, they don't keep the cars and bikes at the station - the Guards tend to be out and about either working or patrolling.

Finally, if there is a consistent problem in an area report it - if you know roughly the times that are problematic give that info to the Guards and the local skipper can schedule in a car or bike to travel that area at the time required and deal with all this poor / dangerous cycling that is being complained about.

RainyDay · 20-07-2014 11:18AM

100200 shih wrote: »

It also should not be my problem that there are ignorance cyclist out there every day that they think they own the road

Who do you think owns the road?

No Pants · 20-07-2014 11:29AM

100200 shih wrote: »

It also should not be my problem that there are ignorance cyclist out there every day that they think they own the road or to but it better think they are entitled to do as they wish on the road.

Such as those who have the audacity to use the road to travel from A to B at the same time as you. Maybe they don't know how important you are and how important your journey is. Have you considered taking out an ad in the local newspaper or maybe speaking on local radio to raise awareness?

100200 shih · 20-07-2014 11:54AM

No Pants wrote: »

Such as those who have the audacity to use the road to travel from A to B at the same time as you. Maybe they don't know how important you are and how important your journey is. Have you considered taking out an ad in the local newspaper or maybe speaking on local radio to raise awareness?

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

100200 shih · 20-07-2014 11:56AM

RainyDay wrote: »

Who do you think owns the road?

NO ONE, WHY are you saying some one does ?????:eek:

RainyDay · 20-07-2014 12:02PM

100200 shih wrote: »

NO ONE, WHY are you saying some one does ?????:eek:

It's just the way that you seem to expect everyone else to get out of your way, but you don't have to get out of anyone else's way - that led me to think that perhaps you think that YOU own the road - but obviously I got that wrong.

So when you do drive in heavy traffic in Galway or elsewhere, where cyclists are generally faster than cars, do you pull over in traffic to let the cyclists through?

100200 shih · 20-07-2014 12:14PM

RainyDay wrote: »

It's just the way that you seem to expect everyone else to get out of your way, but you don't have to get out of anyone else's way - that led me to think that perhaps you think that YOU own the road - but obviously I got that wrong.

So when you do drive in heavy traffic in Galway or elsewhere, where cyclists are generally faster than cars, do you pull over in traffic to let the cyclists through?

Where did I write this ????? So when Im sitting in traffic in Galway city where do you think I can pull over to ??? ( Galway city only have 1 tiny lanes in the city ) so You think I should drive onto the foot path to let bikes pass me out ????:eek: ( This is defo illegal )

So your suggesting that cyclist have more rights than people walking on footpaths, I have heard it all now

No Pants · 20-07-2014 01:14PM

100200 shih wrote: »

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Maybe if you didn't roll your eyes so much, you'd have an easier job dealing with people on bicycles that you encounter whilst in a motor car. :cool:

100200 shih · 20-07-2014 01:17PM

No Pants wrote: »

Maybe if you didn't roll your eyes so much, you'd have an easier job dealing with people on bicycles that you encounter whilst in a motor car. :cool:

No worry in that regards , I only save the roll eyes for silly comment

No Pants · 20-07-2014 01:19PM

100200 shih wrote: »

Where did I write this ????? So when Im sitting in traffic in Galway city where do you think I can pull over to ??? ( Galway city only have 1 tiny lanes in the city ) so You think I should drive onto the foot path to let bikes pass me out ????:eek: ( This is defo illegal )

100200 shih wrote: »

Tractor & buses always pull in when there is a stream of cars be-hide them but cyclist do not,

This is confusing. Tractors and buses have room to pull in, yet you do not.

RainyDay · 20-07-2014 01:24PM

100200 shih wrote: »

Where did I write this ????? So when Im sitting in traffic in Galway city where do you think I can pull over to ??? ( Galway city only have 1 tiny lanes in the city ) so You think I should drive onto the foot path to let bikes pass me out ????:eek: ( This is defo illegal )

So your suggesting that cyclist have more rights than people walking on footpaths, I have heard it all now

I never mentioned driving on the footpad, which as you rightly point out, is illegal. You expect cyclists to pull over to the side of the road to let you pass, when they are going slower than you. Do you offer them the same courtesy, when you are driving slower than them?

100200 shih · 20-07-2014 01:27PM

No Pants wrote: »

This is confusing. Tractors and buses have room to pull in, yet you do not.

As you know ( or should know ) in the COUNTRY ROAD there are area that tractors, buses can pull in, & myself if needs be

In the Galway CITY for me as a driver of a motor vehicle, tractors & buses to pull over would mean pulling up on a footpath which is illegal.

I do not think I can explain this any more clearly

100200 shih · 20-07-2014 01:33PM

RainyDay wrote: »

I never mentioned driving on the footpad, which as you rightly point out, is illegal. You expect cyclists to pull over to the side of the road to let you pass, when they are going slower than you. Do you offer them the same courtesy, when you are driving slower than them?

To be honest , when there is traffic in the city, most cyclist are on the footpaths ( which is illegal )Where else would you suggest I pull over to when I in the city ?? as I have explain before we do not have areas we can pull into, we have narrow road with 2 way traffic and foot paths.

So tell me where do you suggest I pull into ?????

I had the joy one day to watch number of cyclist been stop by the guard & getting giving out to for this for been on the footpath

:D:D

No Pants · 20-07-2014 01:35PM

100200 shih wrote: »

As you know ( or should know ) in the COUNTRY ROAD there are area that tractors, buses can pull in, & myself if needs be

In the Galway CITY for me as a driver of a motor vehicle, tractors & buses to pull over would mean pulling up on a footpath which is illegal.

I do not think I can explain this any more clearly

So, to summarise, you are upset because someone else won't break the law and leave themselves liable to prosecution in order for you to get home approximately three minutes faster. That makes no sense.

100200 shih · 20-07-2014 01:44PM

No Pants wrote: »

So, to summarise, you are upset because someone else won't break the law and leave themselves liable to prosecution in order for you to get home approximately three minutes faster. That makes no sense.

What are you on about ????

I never asked anyone else to break the law, I do not drive thro the city most of the time, If you actual read what I wrote & stop assuming thing you would see that I said :

I get annoyed when there are groups of cyclist on COUNTRY ROAD with a stream of 10/15 cars beside them having a great aul chat & the rest of us trying to get home from work.

And another thing, I never suggested three mins ( try reading again before you assume things ) I said I could get delay 15 / 20 mins daily during the summer months because groups of cyclist chose to go on there leisure cycle when lots of people are commuting from work.

Grandpa Hassan · 20-07-2014 02:04PM

Nothing being talked about on this thread is anything more than an annoyance. Being held up, cyclists not using cycle lanes. Even running red lights is hardly a danger unless doing it at speed with your eyes closed. Nothing to prompt any government to bring in licensing or insurance or any other nonsense thing that runs counter to the whole policy of promoting cycling.

The laws are there already. There are enough Garda to enforce them and hand out fines if there was any appetite to use Garda resource for that.

John_Rambo · 20-07-2014 02:14PM

100200 shih wrote: »

I get annoyed when there are groups of cyclist on COUNTRY ROAD with a stream of 10/15 cars beside them having a great aul chat & the rest of us trying to get home from work

Maybe you're not suited to driving if you get that annoyed and stressed about slower traffic. Have you considered cycling in and out of work? It's a brilliant stress relief, a healthy work out, it's cheaper and would free up the roads for more patient drivers.

100200 shih · 20-07-2014 02:17PM

John_Rambo wrote: »

Maybe you're not suited to driving if you get that annoyed and stressed about slower traffic. Have you considered cycling in and out of work? It's a brilliant stress relief, a healthy work out, it's cheaper and would free up the roads for more patient drivers.

`

So John Rambo,

Tell me do you cycle 160 km a day ???? If not then don't be telling me what I should or should not be doing !!!!

Those damn cyclists again!

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