Wayne Dundon guilty of Roy Collins murder.

myshirt · 15-07-2014 09:45PM

Is there anyone on this thread who isn't a google merchant?
Lads - you know nothing about Limerick. You know nothing about the Dundons.

On the socioeconomic side, it's like this.. you either spend the money at the start, or you spend it at the end. The Dundons collectively now have cost the state what in bed and board? Legal cost? Garda cost? And for what.

In Limerick, no one gave a flying f#ck while scumbags were killing scumbags, as long as money after money was piled into their own communities and pockets, while the poor, uneducated, and destitute people were confined to a gulag without a hope in hell of a fair shot. You then churn out evil bastarrds and some very damaged and dysfunctional people.

Let me tell you one thing for nothing as a fact, there has been some very, very good people, who themselves possibly didn't have the best start in life, sometimes very traumatic at a young age, who in looking for a fair shake, a chance, equality of opportunity, have instead seen their childrens lives destroyed in Limerick in the name of public sector bonuses, brown envelopes, nepotism, yearly salary increases regardless of performance, and complete neglect and dereliction of duty. And they don't have the education to realise it. Some of the most honest to goodness people you'd meet in your life, busting their bollix to do well for their kids to the very best of their ability, and their lives absolutely devastated and miserable, children killed in the community, and drugs taken their toll on the community.

Certain people should be flogged that we had such high youth mortality, piss poor school completion rates, and 50% unemployment in parts of Limerick during the boom and we try say it is entirely the fault of those children? Come out of the fog.

What happened Roy Collins son and the Collins family was appalling. But I'm afraid to say, we may very well be back to square one unless there is a changed attitude in relation to our reaction to these tragedies.

You either spend the money at the start, or you spend it at the end.

Degag · 15-07-2014 09:46PM

rogieop wrote: »

yes it is. There is no guarantee for release, and even after release your sentance can be reactivated at any time.

Should Life not mean Life without any option for getting out after 17/20 years?

mickydoomsux · 15-07-2014 10:18PM

myshirt wrote: »

Is there anyone on this thread who isn't a google merchant?
Lads - you know nothing about Limerick. You know nothing about the Dundons.

On the socioeconomic side, it's like this.. you either spend the money at the start, or you spend it at the end. The Dundons collectively now have cost the state what in bed and board? Legal cost? Garda cost? And for what.

In Limerick, no one gave a flying f#ck while scumbags were killing scumbags, as long as money after money was piled into their own communities and pockets, while the poor, uneducated, and destitute people were confined to a gulag without a hope in hell of a fair shot. You then churn out evil bastarrds and some very damaged and dysfunctional people.

Let me tell you one thing for nothing as a fact, there has been some very, very good people, who themselves possibly didn't have the best start in life, sometimes very traumatic at a young age, who in looking for a fair shake, a chance, equality of opportunity, have instead seen their childrens lives destroyed in Limerick in the name of public sector bonuses, brown envelopes, nepotism, yearly salary increases regardless of performance, and complete neglect and dereliction of duty. And they don't have the education to realise it. Some of the most honest to goodness people you'd meet in your life, busting their bollix to do well for their kids to the very best of their ability, and their lives absolutely devastated and miserable, children killed in the community, and drugs taken their toll on the community.

Certain people should be flogged that we had such high youth mortality, piss poor school completion rates, and 50% unemployment in parts of Limerick during the boom and we try say it is entirely the fault of those children? Come out of the fog.

What happened Roy Collins son and the Collins family was appalling. But I'm afraid to say, we may very well be back to square one unless there is a changed attitude in relation to our reaction to these tragedies.

You either spend the money at the start, or you spend it at the end.

Always someone elses fault.

How do "good" people ever come out of these "bad" areas like you say they do? Is it because these people actually give a **** about what happens to them and try to make something of themselves rather than being either the addicts or the dealers?

Areas go bad because they have a high percentage scummy people living there. These people are the cause of these kips being kips, not the result.

Have you got any stats to back up your assertion that spending more development money in a given geographical location directly decreases crime/addiction rates?

Shakespeare's Sister · 15-07-2014 10:24PM

Evenstevens wrote: »

These people are the cause of these kips being kips, not the result.

Combination of the two IMO.

I think myshirt has some good points - if a local authority places a few people with issues like violence and addiction and crime and lack of education into an area and then just forgets about the area and all the people who have to put up with these people, problems are bound to result.
But some of the post is a bit too blamey also. People are ultimately responsible for themselves, and I don't know what "You know nothing about the Dundons" or Limerick is supposed to mean. We bloody well know all that's needed to know about the Dundons. :-/

And of course people like them are a minority in Limerick though.

myshirt · 15-07-2014 10:27PM

Des McCaffrey has all the stats.

I'd welcome you to come to Limerick and meet the people in these areas.

I've little sympathy for those who are adults. You can never sherk all responsibility. Ever. Many people have been let down. But it is never an excuse. Never extenuating.

My problem is with the number of young people there who are f#cked before they even begin.

In any event, forgetting about the morals of it, economically it is better to spend the money at the start, than at the end.

michael999999 · 15-07-2014 10:39PM

RedemptionZ wrote: »

Get rid of the current gangs maybe, but there's plenty more to follow in their footsteps. Could be wrong here and I'm paraphrasing but I think it was Martin Cahill who said 'if yous think I'm bad, wait till you see who's coming behind me'

There's a cycle and it'd be better to try to tackle that cycle and stop people coming through.

Didn't charlie haughey say that about Bertie?

myshirt · 15-07-2014 10:43PM

Talk to John Fitzgerald (former DCC), John Lonergan(prison governor), Pat Fitzgerald (UL), Des McCaffrey (Mary Immaculate), Pat O'Connor (former Department of Education, now well retired)... many others who are authorities in the different areas of discussion and have looked at Limerick... trust me, I've been there.

I spoke with an American sociologist who worked within Camden NJ and his independent view, albeit over a few drinks, was that what happened certain parts of Limerick was nearly at the level that commanded reparations from the rest of Limerick. He worked within the advisory structure through the Chuck Feeney arm of UL Foundation who have been very proactive in access to education initiatives.

Shocking neglect. Shocking.

dd972 · 15-07-2014 10:44PM

mickydoomsux wrote: »

Always someone elses fault.

How do "good" people ever come out of these "bad" areas like you say they do? Is it because these people actually give a **** about what happens to them and try to make something of themselves rather than being either the addicts or the dealers?

Areas go bad because they have a high percentage scummy people living there. These people are the cause of these kips being kips, not the result.

Have you got any stats to back up your assertion that spending more development money in a given geographical location directly decreases crime/addiction rates?

There are OK people who are stuck in such areas in Limerick and Dublin that don't deserve to be there, their misfortune is not to be born members of the lucky sperm club who bandy words like 'knacker' about with such aplomb, incidentally most of whom are upper working class that think they're middle class.

El Weirdo · 15-07-2014 10:45PM

myshirt makes a valid point.

A "community centre", as another poster put it, certainly wouldn't have helped the Dundon family, but it may well have helped some of those young fellas that got drawn into their gang.

If young people feel that they have no hope of ever getting a decent job and they see the likes of the Dundons living it up with their money and perceived power and respect, then there's a good chance that they're going to make some bad choices and take the path that seems more attainable to them.

Shakespeare's Sister · 15-07-2014 10:49PM

El Weirdo wrote: »

myshirt makes a valid point.

A "community centre", as another poster put it, certainly wouldn't have helped the Dundon family, but it may well have helped some of those young fellas that got drawn into their gang.

If young people feel that they have no hope of ever getting a decent job and they see the likes of the Dundons living it up with their money and perceived power and respect, then there's a good chance that they're going to make some bad choices and take the path that seems more attainable to them.

As well as being intimidated into it.

flutered · 15-07-2014 11:09PM

HeidiHeidi wrote: »

Just heard on the news there that three of the four (I think) Dundon brothers are serving life for murder now :eek:

That's quite some family.

hm prison service could not tame their old man, they left him out roughly four years early and put him on the boat back to limerick, their biggest advantage was/is they were uneducated itenrints, this was also their biggest disadvantage, btw john gilligan left dublin to move in with/near dundon snr.

tomwaterford · 15-07-2014 11:12PM

myshirt wrote: »

Des McCaffrey has all the stats.

I'd welcome you to come to Limerick and meet the people in these areas.

I've little sympathy for those who are adults. You can never sherk all responsibility. Ever. Many people have been let down. But it is never an excuse. Never extenuating.

My problem is with the number of young people there who are f#cked before they even begin.

In any event, forgetting about the morals of it, economically it is better to spend the money at the start, than at the end.

this is a very good point....I went to FAS with a lad from southill (I think it was)....as sound a chap as you could meet

and he couldn't get a job based on his address and had to use his grandmothers address when applying for jobs...we seen it on the registration sheets and this real address on his licence

but the problem is..where to start with spending the money as if you grow up and seeing the only ones around with plenrty of money/flashy cars being criminals.....it is not too far-fetched to want to get a piece of that action......its an incredibly hard circle to break

flutered · 15-07-2014 11:16PM

Magaggie wrote: »

Combination of the two IMO.

I think myshirt has some good points - if a local authority places a few people with issues like violence and addiction and crime and lack of education into an area and then just forgets about the area and all the people who have to put up with these people, problems are bound to result.
But some of the post is a bit too blamey also. People are ultimately responsible for themselves, and I don't know what "You know nothing about the Dundons" or Limerick is supposed to mean. We bloody well know all that's needed to know about the Dundons. :-/

And of course people like them are a minority in Limerick though.

one of the problems was they were left get too big, no garda presence, also gaurds being told the criminal fraternity knew where their familys were, it was only where outside police were brought in and out secretly that things improved, also the new fone tapping laws were a boon to law enforcement, just read the headlines of how much gear in found each week, also the use of airbourne intillegence could pick out grow houses.

flutered · 15-07-2014 11:29PM

Reformed Character wrote: »

The heavy gang tried that in the 70's and 80's , it was a disgrace and an utter failure which led to miscarriage's of justice and human rights abuses as were evidenced in the Nicky Kelly/Sallins mail train robbery case.

that was the fg hathred of sf, how many in limerick had broken ribs, punchered lungs and busted kidneys, all it done was have a strong hatread of the law being born, people who had nothing to do with crime aand sf were picked up, folks with cars back then who may have shown sf tendencys had to have their cars in order, then locals and travelers were lumped togeather in estates, today it is the same, look at southill for example, only for anthony kelly the caseys would run riot there, i ask one question who runs the drug trade in every city and town, it is not the local working class and the poor. thats for sure

WilyCoyote · 16-07-2014 05:11AM

Degag wrote: »

So it's not life is it?

Get with the prog .........LIFE IS LIFE!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i9UK3y6argY

cletus van damme · 16-07-2014 08:42AM

Degag wrote: »

Are you a member of the Gardaí or the justice system in some way? Your very defensive regarding a very valid point that the poster was making albeit in a roundabout way.

How often have you seen rapists get away with a few years in jail out after 2 or 3 of them? How many times have criminals who attack and pray on 80 or 90 year old pensioners gotten away with a suspended sentence?

There are vile people in this country and the Justice system does not do their victims justice.

If Mr Dundon stays behind bars for the rest of life it will be fantastic and justice will be done but it's not done often enough IMO.

no I'm none of those.
I live here and have a basic grasp of the law i'm subjected too.
I'd recommend it.

His point was rubbish and plain wrong - a pet hate of mine is this guff "he'll get a suspended sentence" ****e you read in online comments.
For murder - it's mandatory life sentence.

As for life being life - in ireland we offer the chance (not the guarantee) of redemption. That's just the way it is.
Furthermore in the UK where the have a whole of life tariff, the Life sentence you crave so much, the EU has deemed that illegal.
The Uk is fighting this at present (or the daily mail and the sun are) but Cameron has indicated he will tell the EU to sod off.
Since we love the EU so much here, I don't see that as an possible avenue.

As for rapists and the like - they do the sentence they are given. If you have a problem with that get onto your TD and lobby them for increased sentences in law or the removal of remission for good behaviour.
Now before you think removing remission is a good thing , ask yourself what incentive is there for a prisioner to behave or attempt rehabilitation without the carrot of remission.
As I said there is no remission for murder because you can only get out by jumping through whatever hoops the parole board lay out.

I'll admit some petty criminals can get sent howe early with no space available - I know a fella who got 3 months for a brawl and was home in 3 hours. But that doesn't happen with serious crime.

topper75 · 16-07-2014 10:14AM

myshirt wrote: »

You either spend the money at the start, or you spend it at the end.

WD grew up in UK. Not Irish taxpayers remit to look after sports facilities or whatever to promote moral rectitude in inner-city London flatblocks.

Just because somebody isn't from Limerick doesn't remove their right to challenge bleeding heart lefty nonsense like this on boards. And let's be clear, a lot of these less-than-salubrious estates in Limerick City were wrecked by residents - not by the Council - ref. names sprayed on derelict houses, ponies grazing on rubbish-strewn green areas, old white goods abandoned in front gardens. Spend the money at the start? I think they did. You can see the thanks they got.

Shakespeare's Sister · 16-07-2014 10:03PM

Still though, only the scum minority (whom the normal, decent majority don't want) ****ed everything up. Local authorities have been guilty down the years of just firing everyone a bunch of keys and letting them to it, rather than considering what neighbours people have.

chicorytip · 16-07-2014 11:00PM

juniord wrote: »

larry dunne said that when he was sentenced for heroin dealing

It was Christy "Bronco" Dunne.

topper75 · 16-07-2014 11:36PM

Magaggie wrote: »

Still though, only the scum minority (whom the normal, decent majority don't want) ****ed everything up. Local authorities have been guilty down the years of just firing everyone a bunch of keys and letting them to it, rather than considering what neighbours people have.

I know - it is that minority we are all focused on. But the question is this - how can you 'spend money on them' early in a way to stop them becoming what they become as adults? A lot of these thugs are not at all deprived in a material sense. Some of them are spoiled pups as kids. I totally reject the 'spend money early so you don't have to later' argument. The Dundon brothers when party to numerous killings could not have been described by any stretch of the imagination as being in a state of want. They were rolling in money and material posessions. The state's welfare system (your money and my money) provides them with a leg up and and they turn around and spit in society's face as gratitude.

PyeContinental · 17-07-2014 12:23AM

Totally agree with what topper75 has said.

In Exile · 17-07-2014 01:01AM

El Weirdo wrote: »

myshirt makes a valid point.

A "community centre", as another poster put it, certainly wouldn't have helped the Dundon family, but it may well have helped some of those young fellas that got drawn into their gang.

If young people feel that they have no hope of ever getting a decent job and they see the likes of the Dundons living it up with their money and perceived power and respect, then there's a good chance that they're going to make some bad choices and take the path that seems more attainable to them.

I lived up around Hyde Road back when the Dundons moved back to Ireland.

At the time a number of local residents, a lot of whom owned the shops up around the area, approached the gardai and begged them to not let the family settle in the area. They also asked that if the Dundon's were to stay, that they be policed as tough as possible.

This is 20-25 years ago and the residents at the time knew the trouble that was going to come from them.

There still is a community centre at the top of Hyde Road, but at the time there was also a community centre and another band hall (if I remember right, the band who were based there won the Marching Band Parade in Limerick a number of times and also represented Ireland overseas).

Both were burned down a few years later. Neither have ever been replaced.

While it isn't right to blame all the problems on the Dundons, their vile behaviour, their complete lack of repect and their scary ruthlessness created problems in the area that will take a long time to heal.

I've heard bad things about the next generation of them coming through but at the moment, I for one will welcome their demise.

realdanbreen · 17-07-2014 08:46AM

flutered wrote: »

btw john gilligan left dublin to move in with/near dundon snr.

I'd say they both sleep with one eye open!

topper75 · 17-07-2014 09:01AM

Reading InExile's post saddens me deeply. But I supposed what happened happened, and the good people of Ballinacurra Weston have to pick up the pieces and move on now. I remember my gran God rest her telling me years back of some new shower of uncivilised troublecausers moving in and the widespread concern people had around that part of town, but I didn't know at the time what that would mean.

Shakespeare's Sister · 17-07-2014 11:10PM

In Exile wrote: »

I lived up around Hyde Road back when the Dundons moved back to Ireland.

At the time a number of local residents, a lot of whom owned the shops up around the area, approached the gardai and begged them to not let the family settle in the area. They also asked that if the Dundon's were to stay, that they be policed as tough as possible.

This is 20-25 years ago and the residents at the time knew the trouble that was going to come from them.

There still is a community centre at the top of Hyde Road, but at the time there was also a community centre and another band hall (if I remember right, the band who were based there won the Marching Band Parade in Limerick a number of times and also represented Ireland overseas).

Both were burned down a few years later. Neither have ever been replaced.

While it isn't right to blame all the problems on the Dundons, their vile behaviour, their complete lack of repect and their scary ruthlessness created problems in the area that will take a long time to heal.

I've heard bad things about the next generation of them coming through but at the moment, I for one will welcome their demise.

God that's depressing... :-/

Why should such dangerous, extremely intimidating people get housed right next to decent people? Why should they get housed by the state at all, when they're hardly in need of it? :mad:

I remember a Prime Time Investigates a couple of years back focusing on intimidation in Limerick, and it was one of the saddest things I've ever seen - watching this old woman talk through tears about how her grandchildren couldn't visit her because it was so dangerous.

This is so infuriating, the way local authorities can just give scum the keys and wash their hands of them. There should be more accountability by local authorities. Private landlords are expected to do what they can about anti-social behaviour, and the place getting wrecked.

JillyQ · 17-07-2014 11:14PM

Robbo wrote: »

It's not. It's 22 years on average.

if he serves that it will mean the oldest he will be is 58 when he is released. He could still have another 20 to 30 years of freedom. I think 22 years is way to short.

tomwaterford · 17-07-2014 11:20PM

skoda_driver wrote: »

dundons are travellers , if travellers want ethnic status , surely then charechters like this would in future be refered to as travellers

are they not settled???
travellers are not an ethnic group....genetically they are as irish as you or me

Magaggie wrote: »

God that's depressing... :-/

Why should such dangerous, extremely intimidating people get housed right next to decent people? Why should they get housed by the state at all, when they're hardly in need of it? :mad:

I remember a Prime Time Investigates a couple of years back focusing on intimidation in Limerick, and it was one of the saddest things I've ever seen - watching this old woman talk through tears about how her grandchildren couldn't visit her because it was so dangerous.

This is so infuriating, the way local authorities can just give scum the keys and wash their hands of them. There should be more accountability by local authorities. Private landlords are expected to do what they can about anti-social behaviour, and the place getting wrecked.

it is a horrible issue...as what can local atorities do as they are obliged to house them (aswell as realeased prisioners afaik)
what can be done....shower of animals going around wreaking the place...knowing that they get away it:mad::mad:

as an aside....I remember years ago...when them dundons were just starting out on the crime....they used to specilze in tieing up and robbing old people...they killed an old man this way...there was the chance to finish them.........they were left get out of hand

there is a family down here in Waterford that are starting at the same craic and the gaurds cant seem to do anything about it.....what can be done to prevent Waterford from becoming out of hand like limerick criminals

El Weirdo · 17-07-2014 11:53PM

tomwaterford wrote: »

it is a horrible issue...as what can local atorities do as they are obliged to house them (aswell as realeased prisioners afaik)

I'm not sure that's technically true. As I understand it, the State has an obligation to provide a housing solution. This could be in the form of rent supplement or RAS, but they don't actually have to provide the actual property.

tomwaterford · 18-07-2014 10:23PM

El Weirdo wrote: »

I'm not sure that's technically true. As I understand it, the State has an obligation to provide a housing solution. This could be in the form of rent supplement or RAS, but they don't actually have to provide the actual property.

I could be wrong...I taught they would have to sort them in b & b or hostels etc...until they came up on housing list

mickydoomsux · 18-07-2014 10:52PM

Magaggie wrote: »

Why should such dangerous, extremely intimidating people get housed right next to decent people?

"Social inclusion". The idea is that you mix the garbage in amongst normal people and hope that they somehow magically improve through social-osmosis. It's a dumb concept that doesn't work because these types aren't interested in it. These people are scummy bullies who will just make life as hard as possible for those around them.

But i'm sure some sociologist who will never have to live near their kind or a social worker/parole officer who sees them once a fortnight for ten minutes when they are on their best behavior is positive that it's a good idea.

The actual solution to their "housing needs" would get me called a literal Nazi if i was to go into detail about it.

Wayne Dundon guilty of Roy Collins murder.

Comments