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Waterford GAA Discussion Thread 2013- Mod Warning Post #1

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    #6692
    gmurphy70
    Registered Users Posts: 181 ✭✭gmurphy70


    What was Waterford /Cork score?
    Was thinking that Waterford would be far too strong with all their seniors on board



    deisedoz wrote: »
    This result raises very serious questions as to what we are doing at this level, disgraceful stuff.


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    #6693
    Mountainlad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,851 ✭✭✭Mountainlad


    gmurphy70 wrote: »
    What was Waterford /Cork score?
    Was thinking that Waterford would be far too strong with all their seniors on board

    Aplogies, 3-18 to 0-14


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    #6694
    PTH2009
    Registered Users Posts: 38,050 ✭✭✭✭PTH2009


    We're the Senoir lads on the u21 team keeping themselves for Saturday ?

    A bad start to the week with this result, senoirs will find it hard to motivate themselves now after this disaster. Hopefully the minors win nxt Tuesday

    What is it with this level we just can't adapt.


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    #6695
    KevIRL
    Registered Users Posts: 39,534 ✭✭✭✭KevIRL


    Absolutely shambolic stuff in the second half, aimless, rudderless and completely gormless. The second Cork goal conceded straight after they had been reduced to 14 men was as bad a goal to give away as you are likely to see anywhere. Disgusted, am gonna go kick a wall for a bit


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    #6696
    nkay1985
    Registered Users Posts: 6,975 ✭✭✭nkay1985


    KevIRL wrote: »
    Absolutely shambolic stuff in the second half, aimless, rudderless and completely gormless. The second Cork goal conceded straight after they had been reduced to 14 men was as bad a goal to give away as you are likely to see anywhere. Disgusted, am gonna go kick a wall for a bit

    It was truly awful. We should have been a few more points ahead at half time and probably should have had at least one goal.

    Second half we just never got going. To concede a goal seconds after they'd had a man sent off was so poor. And I'm not the biggest fan of cynical play but our backs should have been dragging them down for at least two of the goals. Once we had to go chasing goals, that was that. Cork were well able to handle us although their goalie made another couple of decent saves.

    Very disappointing overall and I hope it doesn't deflate things ahead of Saturday.


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    #6697
    STIG83
    Registered Users Posts: 3,588 ✭✭✭STIG83


    PTH2009 learn to spell Senior.


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    #6698
    thesultan
    Registered Users Posts: 2,680 ✭✭✭thesultan


    Could someone give a run down of how each player did?


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    #6699
    jive
    Registered Users Posts: 5,762 ✭✭✭jive


    Fireball07 wrote: »
    I think he's 6'8... he is actually quite skilful on his day. He doesn't always show it though, that's for sure. He's not particularly good in the air for the size of him.

    Don't think he's that tall. I know what you mean, he has a bit of Maurice Shanahan-esque co-ordination about him. Good hurler on his day though.


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    #6700
    Mountainlad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,851 ✭✭✭Mountainlad


    Am I hearing right that they played a 3 man midfield and a sweeper?


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    #6701
    tomwaterford
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,768 ✭✭✭✭tomwaterford


    deisedoz wrote: »
    This result raises very serious questions as to what we are doing at this level, disgraceful stuff.

    it raises serious concerns as to why the relative successful minor teams aren't progressing through the ranks??
    I wasn't at the game myself due to work...but am not looking forward to reading reviews:(


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    #6702
    Deise Doodler
    Registered Users Posts: 154 ✭✭Deise Doodler


    Absolutely disgusted, shambolic set up and negative incompetent tactics from a management team with apparently no understanding of their players, Why did we revert to a 2 ( actually 1 at times ) man full forward line at a time when we were all over cork? why was Kevin Daly playing in the corner ? why was Mc Nulty left on cardigan for nearly the whole game? I would hope Quelly has the Balls to admit he made a mess of things and not use the lack of panel preparation as an excuse, Looked the same ridiculous approach as our senior team no mater how the game is going the plan is the plan, time to start bringing in outside managers again cause we really cant seem to find them in Waterford, other than at minor where the Games development coach's appoint
    We are wasting generation after generation of players, because of an incompetent count board appointing unproven management with no track record or ability and all the work being done underage will come to nothing,


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    #6703
    deisedoz
    Registered Users Posts: 35 ✭deisedoz


    tomwaterford wrote: »
    it raises serious concerns as to why the relative successful minor teams aren't progressing through the ranks??
    I wasn't at the game myself due to work...but am not looking forward to reading reviews:(

    That's five years running we have been beaten in u21and intermediate and many of those defeats have been bad beatings


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    #6704
    Hamstrings59
    Registered Users Posts: 95 ✭✭Hamstrings59


    Queally hasn't a clue even the dogs in the street know that


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    #6705
    robopaddy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 990 ✭✭✭robopaddy


    thesultan wrote: »
    Could someone give a run down of how each player did?

    Can someone please not!!! The result tells you all you need to know.

    We just need to move on from this disaster as quickly as possible and hope that the lads are ready for Saturday night. Its obvious with many years that we have got it all wrong when it comes to this grade and tonight isn't the night to come up with the solution


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    #6706
    Deise_2012
    Registered Users Posts: 1,293 ✭✭✭Deise_2012


    Mountainlad wrote: »
    Am I hearing right that they played a 3 man midfield and a sweeper?
    If you were there tonight you would not have a clue what system they were playing. They started with 3 in the full forward line, breathnach, dillon and donnelly. Cadogan got 1 point and they changed everything, Tadhg bourke went as a sweeper, harney to centre back. Ray Barry and Shane Roche on the wings.. Ryan Donnelly went to midfield, Donie breathnach was told to mark Cork's number 12 .....I have no idea what happened to be honest


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    #6707
    The blue blaa
    Registered Users Posts: 497 ✭✭The blue blaa


    Mountainlad wrote: »
    Am I hearing right that they played a 3 man midfield and a sweeper?

    Cork left 2 in full forward line and pulled man back sweeping between midfield an half back line. We left tadgh de bourke as a spare man in our full back line and kevin daly who was cleaned out for at least 2-4 in 2nd half an really was out of his depth in the game being isolated in 1 on 1 situations. Piss poor performance from a lot of our so called stars of the team. But I cant help but blame the men on the line for basically doing nothing to counter act corks dominance. Tom Devine & DJ Foran should hav been introduced at half time in my view the game was callin out for ball winners. Ray Barry hit a lot of aimless ball but so did the whole team really cat performance.
    Cork Keeper must have caught 7/8 balls under the bar un contested.

    Scorers for us upto bout 55 min (I gave up countin then)

    someone plz tell me why we seem to hav no balls to put the fast ball onto the opposite wing in front of our forwards instead of this whole posession game of just running in straight lines an into pressure areas where we end up surrounded by defenders

    Aussie 7 pts maybe 4 from frees
    Gavin o brien 2 pts
    Jake 2 pts 1 from free
    Ryan donnelly 1 pt
    Jamie barron 1 pt
    Steven Bennet 1 pt I think.


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    #6708
    letowski
    Registered Users Posts: 3,121 ✭✭✭letowski


    Surprised to hear ye underperformed tonight.

    It's interesting to see alot of criticism with regards to Quelly bringing lads out the field and playing little inside. Last year Quelly played a similar tactic against us and it worked really well. Waterford were leading up until the sending off and it still took a fortunate goal for us to win. Up until this evening, Quelly was held in good regard on this forum.

    He obviously made a hash of the system tonight. I think ye're senior and U21 management should move away from this type of defensive play. Ye now have top quality forward coming through onto U21 and senior and none of these boys used to playing this way from minor. They are natural winners and don't think a negative mind set will help them in there development. Ye would get more out of them playing the style that has been successful for them and what they are used to.

    Just an outside opinion, might be wrong.


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    #6709
    culbaire
    Registered Users Posts: 411 ✭✭culbaire


    Ken McGrath on Twitter

    Shocking display this negative nonsense hurling has to stop , man up compete man on man ,we had a xtra man and they had 2/3 spare defenders


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    #6710
    Cornerstoner
    Registered Users Posts: 175 ✭✭Cornerstoner


    I thought the senior performances had depressed me but tonight was a new low for me. Its clear that the negative type of hurling is now spreading like a virus throughout our teams from the top down. Something needs to be done to change it before too much damage is done


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    #6711
    Deise Doodler
    Registered Users Posts: 154 ✭✭Deise Doodler


    Deise_2012 wrote: »
    If you were there tonight you would not have a clue what system they were playing. They started with 3 in the full forward line, breathnach, dillon and donnelly. Cadogan got 1 point and they changed everything, Tadhg bourke went as a sweeper, harney to centre back. Ray Barry and Shane Roche on the wings.. Ryan Donnelly went to midfield, Donie breathnach was told to mark Cork's number 12 .....I have no idea what happened to be honest

    yep, went in to melt down, changed almost everything except what was needed, i.e. Daly to full back, and Mc Nulty off Cadogan, I couldn't believe it when I heard Donnie Breathnach being berated for marking the wrong man, surely its a forwards job to evade his marker? not follow him around the more I think about this the angrier I get


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    #6712
    Annie Oakes
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 59 ✭✭Annie Oakes


    And to think this waterford team is a supossed great team full of current and future senior players. That u21 cork team is not rated in cork at all ( obvious exceptions for 2/3 of their better players) and i expect them to lose to clare in the final convincingly. Too many times the waterford forwards were greedy and playing as individuals, carrying the ball into trouble or taking on impossible shots on goal. On the defensive side , the match ups were all wrong- fair enough cadogan is just simply pure class but would tadgh burke not of been better off marking him? also burke was free for basically the whole game, he should have been told to stay closer to cadogan imo. Look i hate to be slating players so i wont, but its clear that one of the backs wasent upto it ( should of been subbed) and was the direct cause of prob 2-4 being scored. As a lifetime waterford hurling supporter i am sick of seeing this defensive style now being adopted by our county teams, it seems to be in fashion to play a withdrawn full forward line and try take scores from out the field. All very well but it clearly does not suit our traditional 15- 15 deise live for the jersey and be a man and try and beat the man u are marking tradition of years gone by. The cork no2 was man of the match for gods sake mopping up free ball and basically being their playmaker. Just hope this does not end up being a disaster of a few days for waterford so lets hope the seniors and minors can bring back a bit of cheer!


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    #6713
    Cornerstoner
    Registered Users Posts: 175 ✭✭Cornerstoner


    Deise Doodler wrote: »
    yep, went in to melt down, changed almost everything except what was needed, i.e. Daly to full back, and Mc Nulty off Cadogan, I couldn't believe it when I heard Donnie Breathnach being berated for marking the wrong man, surely its a forwards job to evade his marker? not follow him around the more I think about this the angrier I get

    +1

    They telling Breathnach to run to cover the extra man, some bull****! If they played 15 on 15 they wouldnt have had that problem


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    #6714
    deisedoz
    Registered Users Posts: 35 ✭deisedoz


    Cornerstoner wrote: »
    I thought the senior performances had depressed me but tonight was a new low for me. Its clear that the negative type of hurling is now spreading like a virus throughout our teams from the top down. Something needs to be done to change it before too much damage is done

    Nail on the head. These stupid tactics are potentially going to ruin a fabulous group of young players who are used to winning and playing without fear and are clearly not at ease lining out with a fear of losing playing on their minds. If we go out on Saturday I think a complete overhaul at both grades has to be considered, this group of players don't deserve to have their natural instincts curbed by this mindless defensive negativity.


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    #6715
    culbaire
    Registered Users Posts: 411 ✭✭culbaire


    Match report here: http://www.gaa.ie/gaa-news-and-videos/daily-news/1/1607142100-munster-u21-cork-surge-through-to-final/


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    #6716
    culbaire
    Registered Users Posts: 411 ✭✭culbaire


    Cornerstoner wrote: »
    +1

    They telling Breathnach to run to cover the extra man, some bull****! If they played 15 on 15 they wouldnt have had that problem
    Correct.


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    #6717
    carter10
    Registered Users Posts: 396 ✭✭carter10


    I'm so fxxing angry right now I probably shouldn't post but I need a good vent to blow off some of the frustration. Really Ken says it all in that tweet above this negative rubbish is going to ruin a generation of promising players.
    I'm at a loss to know what this negative set up is supposed to achieve anyway as we have been getting consistently hammered using it. Tonight at 10 points down and against 14 men we were still playing a sweeper.
    After the sending off they scored 2-5 we scored 0-4.
    We managed just 5 points in the second half.
    We played large parts of the first half with 3 forwards v 6 backs with the withdrawn players doing f all out the field.
    In the 12th minute we got a sideline cut about 5 yards into the Cork half this cut was taken in to 1 player in the Full forward line surrounded by 3 cork backs. there was one other player IN THE CORK HALF.
    Shortly after we had a free in and repeated the same exercise...shambolic.

    Our senior and now our u21 management are giving out the message to our players- we have no faith in ye to go 15 v15 don't hurl just take up a defensive negative formation. Our players confidence is being destroyed. Good hurlers at minor tonight looked like poor jnr players. The second goal tonight is as bad as you will see in ANY hurling game this year.

    We've put up with this ridiculous rubbish all year and it clearly isint working and will not work. I'm glad someone of Kens stature has come out and called it what it is.
    Go out and stand toe to toe, 15 v 15 and be dammed.


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    #6718
    cbwfd
    Registered Users Posts: 41 ✭cbwfd


    Actually it was infact Cork who brought in the sweeper first in this game. After Waterford had got the couple of early goal chances they brought back one of their wing forwards leaving one of our half backs free, hence De Burca playing the sweeper role. Impossible really going man for man once the opposition uses a sweeper as it would severely crowd out our forward line and leave far too much space for the Cork forwards so the management had no real choice but to play this way. Just something to think about before everyone jumps on the managements backs rather than see the whole picture.


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    #6719
    STIG83
    Registered Users Posts: 3,588 ✭✭✭STIG83


    Waterford U21s knocked out or is there a "back door"?


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    #6720
    robopaddy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 990 ✭✭✭robopaddy


    This losing mentality in Waterford is getting embarrassing. We are a bit of a laughing stock at this stage. Traditionally Cork have never feared us at underage level and that was never more evident than tonight.

    Even though we have had the upper hand on them at minor level in recent years which much stronger teams, they still come down to Walsh Park at u21 level and expect to beat us, in which they did. Handsomely. We set ourselves up to play with fear, fear of the opposition, fear of losing. Cork fed off that and knew we were there for the taking. And when they went down to 14 men, worse it got. I really find it hard to hold out any hope against Wexford on Saturday. If there is any bit fight or kick-back left in these young lads, will they be even able to find it with this system that is being inflicted on them?

    Both McGrath and Queally were the only 2 candidates who were put forward for the Waterford senior job last year. Neither in my opinion at the time were cut out for it and I still hold that opinion. Both are trying to over complicate things with negative tactics to cover up for their own inabilities and lack of required know-how on how to really go and win games. Hopefully Saturday the pieces of the jigsaw will all come together and we'll see a huge change in fortunes, but Im not holding my breath. A similar type defeat on Saturday night , McGrath and his selectors simply have to go along with Queally from the u21 setup (i think thats a gimme after tonights shambles). Yes you need time but you need to see progress aswell and for me its a rapid decline we are seeing right before our eyes.


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    #6721
    cul beag
    Registered Users Posts: 969 ✭✭✭cul beag


    Shocking stuff tonight. I have to agree with all the previous posters about the negative tactics they're ruining our youngsters. Could it have been any worse of a beating if we went toe to toe with them? Granted we should of had 3 goals in the first half but the s**t we saw in the second half was criminal. At one stage I counted 3 in our whole forward line,we were 8 pts down at this stage and had TWO spare men in our backline,along with having an extra man! On that I don't think our player covered himself in glory either with the sending off and it seems harsh the Cork wing back now misses the Munster final. We had DJ foran and Seamus Keating on the bench,2 players well capable of winning primary possession from our puckouts but neither saw action. Crazy because we won very little of our own puckouts and it was as clear as day especially in the second half we were being dominated in our half forward line. You can see the frustration in some of the players faces this system seems so alien to their natural hurling ability.
    Christ little things like getting calls right between our own players we couldn't do properly. Definitely something needs to be done,and fast because as someone posted earlier,we'll lose a good crop of young hurlers very quickly.


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