Croke Park residents to seek concert injuctions.....your opinions?

Steam Roller · 08-07-2014 01:06PM

Checked North Cumberland Street on the maps, vomiting and p!ssing cant be blamed on concert or match goers.

Its more closer to O'Connell Street than CP. That can be from anyone leaving a pub.

For fcuk sake

muddypaws · 08-07-2014 01:09PM

RandomName2 wrote: »

Exactly. Most entertainment vendors won't make the distinction that Croke Park is in a residential area - unless they've had business with Ireland already, they are far more likely to steer clear of a place where they hear that licences take months to obtain, are non-negotiable, the decision unappealable, where a resident's association can threaten the thing in part or wholly, and where you have opinionated folk like Keegan at the helm.

From a non-business sense, nobody internationally is going to notice it, mind.

Do you think they will steer clear of a city that turns the power off during a set by an international artist as the curfew has been reached?

robbiezero · 08-07-2014 01:12PM

Larbre34 wrote: »

Kieran Mulvey really needs to shut up. I would have had respect for his achievements but then he became involved in the referendum last year, and now he is making statements that are the least impartial I have ever heard from a so called impartial person. Just proves the GAA initiated arbitration he was involved with was a sham.

What achievements?

Thoie · 08-07-2014 01:14PM

Steam Roller wrote: »

Wtf ? Are all 80000 people squating down up there? Never mind line dancing.

When it comes to other people's bodily fluids, one is too many.

First Up · 08-07-2014 01:15PM

Climber wrote: »

The "Scumbags in suits" remark is aimed at the ruling elite, the establishement, the vested interests riding that Gravy train. They need to convince the great unwashed that there is a benefit from holding these concerts.

Can you show me any of these estimates and provide backup as to how these estimates were calculated please? I'm genuinely interested in discovering how these concerts will benefit the "locals".

The implication is that a value creating occurence benefits everybody. Tell that to the residents of a typical African village which is located beside a Gold Mine :cool: The Gold mine operator (and the corrupt Gov. officials) make all the money, the locals get nothing.

Yes, another agenda as I suspected. It was the "suits" of the City Council that pulled the plug on the five gigs, so I'm not sure where that bullet was meant to land.

I haven't done the calculations; Dublin Chamber has estimated an overall benefit of €50 million, some of which is based on visitors to the city (Irish and others.) I'm sure that figure can be argued but some local residents have complained about losing jobs around the event and plenty of local traders would benefit from the increased traffic in the area.

I have not the slightest interest in Garth Brooks by the way, although I do own several suits..

nxbyveromdwjpg · 08-07-2014 01:15PM

OldGoat wrote: »

Allowing money "business and jobs" to take precedent over the rights of people and the law of the land is both wrong and morally repugnant.

This sounds like businesses aren't people and jobs aren't for people, and 160,000 ticket holders aren't people.

There are lot more people affected negatively by the gigs not going ahead.

Happyman42 · 08-07-2014 01:18PM

Ash.J.Williams wrote: »

if rooms are booked and then cancelled on a large scale..it's a major kick in the hole for the owner

Have they built these rooms specially? They are speaking about losing 'notional' money, they will have a deposit and they have done nothing(servicing rooms, supplied breakfasts etc) yet that has cost money.

hynesie08 · 08-07-2014 01:19PM

Steam Roller wrote: »

Checked North Cumberland Street on the maps, vomiting and p!ssing cant be blamed on concert or match goers.

Its more closer to O'Connell Street than CP. That can be from anyone leaving a pub.

For fcuk sake

It's even "more closer" to mountjoy square, which until 1d was the bus dropoff point for gigs and events in croke park, so yeah it can.

Reformed Character · 08-07-2014 01:21PM

Ash.J.Williams wrote: »

if rooms are booked and then cancelled on a large scale..it's a major kick in the hole for the owner

Especially when he jacked up the room rates by 500% when the concert was announced , even though his overheads remained the same!

RandomName2 · 08-07-2014 01:25PM

muddypaws wrote: »

Do you think they will steer clear of a city that turns the power off during a set by an international artist as the curfew has been reached?

The power being switched off on McCartney and Springsteen certainly didn't look good - but at least they had the London mayor criticise the move and it didn't affect the main concert (and thus budgeted money).

SteM · 08-07-2014 01:26PM

First Up wrote: »

Yes, another agenda as I suspected. It was the "suits" of the City Council that pulled the plug on the five gigs, so I'm not sure where that bullet was meant to land.

I haven't done the calculations; Dublin Chamber has estimated an overall benefit of €50 million, some of which is based on visitors to the city (Irish and others.) I'm sure that figure can be argued but some local residents have complained about losing jobs around the event and plenty of local traders would benefit from the increased traffic in the area.

I have not the slightest interest in Garth Brooks by the way, although I do own several suits..

It was? I thought they didn't grant licenses for 2 of the 5 and then the artist made an ultimatum of 5 or nothing? How did the 'City Council' pull the plug on 5 gigs?

B0jangles · 08-07-2014 01:27PM

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/garth-brooks-no-longer-feels-welcome-in-ireland-1.1859252

Country and western crooner Garth Brooks no longer feels welcome in Ireland, says mediator Kieran Mulvey.

Labour Commission chief executive Mr Mulvey, who was mediator for talks between Croke Park residents and GAA/Croke Park, said negative commentary made following his statement he would play “five or none at all” had made Brooks feel unwelcome.

“He’s a human being, a country western singer-he’s not a diplomat,” Mr Mulvey said.

“We’ve all said things that maybe in reflection you thought, ‘I shouldn’t have made that remark’.”

It is understood Brooks had originally planned to reveal details of his World Tour when he arrived in Ireland but now that announcement has been brought forward to this Thursday.

“Are we going to be part of this world tour is a big question mark. I wouldn’t be putting any bets on it one way or another,” Mr Mulvey said.

“Why would he come when he feels he’s not welcome?”

Mr Mulvey said Peter Aiken, owner of the Aiken Promotions who applied for the licence for the five concerts, is flying to meet Garth Brooks in the US today to try convince him to play three concerts.

“There are some things that are best in a face-to-face basis,” Mr Mulvey said.

“All his effort is concentrated on getting him to come here for three days.”

“Some of the commentary made about Garth have been totally unfair and are not helping the situation.”

“Mr Mulvey said the legal case taken by a resident against all five concerts would be another deterrent for Brooks to come play in Ireland.

“There’s nobody happy, this result pleases nobody. Sometimes I wonder where is the common sense in all this.

“This has attracted an extraordinary amount of adverse publicity in the music industry in the US, which is a massive industry. Our competitors will use this to bring the concerts to their countries.”

It is understood a ship full of Brooks equipment left the port in the US headed for Ireland yesterday but may yet be turned back.

Promoter Peter Aiken said he had expected Brooks to make a final decision later today.

Kieran Mulvey continues to make an absolute mockery of his role as "independent mediator".

muddypaws · 08-07-2014 01:28PM

RandomName2 wrote: »

The power being switched off on McCartney and Springsteen certainly didn't look good - but at least they had the London mayor criticise the move and it didn't affect the main concert (and thus budgeted money).

Your post wasn't about the effects on that particular gig, it was about the effect on future events, go and re-read it.

I don't understand your point about the mayor criticising it.

martingriff · 08-07-2014 01:30PM

Happyman42 wrote: »

Have they built these rooms specially? They are speaking about losing 'notional' money, they will have a deposit and they have done nothing(servicing rooms, supplied breakfasts etc) yet that has cost money.

As you say they have deposits however they had all those rooms "sold" that could have been going to other people. Also due to the large amount they may have had extra staff on for that night for extra pay who will now not get it

osarusan · 08-07-2014 01:30PM

First Up wrote: »

I have no dog in this fight

Yeah....your 12 posts in the last 4 hours make me think differently.

ThisRegard · 08-07-2014 01:32PM

B0jangles wrote: »

Kieran Mulvey continues to make an absolute
mockery of his role as "independent mediator".

He's reached farcical levels now.

OldGoat · 08-07-2014 01:32PM

nm wrote: »

This sounds like businesses aren't people and jobs aren't for people, and 160,000 ticket holders aren't people.

There are lot more people affected negatively by the gigs not going ahead.

The 160,000 are entitled to a refund. No loss. They miss out on a nights entertainment. Again that is not a reasonable excuse to usurp peoples rights.

SteM · 08-07-2014 01:32PM

RandomName2 wrote: »

Exactly. Most entertainment vendors won't make the distinction that Croke Park is in a residential area - unless they've had business with Ireland already, they are far more likely to steer clear of a place where they hear that licences take months to obtain, are non-negotiable, the decision unappealable, where a resident's association can threaten the thing in part or wholly, and where you have opinionated folk like Keegan at the helm.

From a non-business sense, nobody internationally is going to notice it, mind.

You don't think those 'entertainment vendors' won't look at the decades of gigs that have been run at Croke Park without a hitch. They won't look at all of the shows put on at Lansdowne over the years? All of the shows at Slane over the years? The **** load of festivals that are run in this country every summer?

You think they'll just look at the one negative (which in my view is a positive - we're a country that adheres to it's planning laws) and steer clear of Ireland as a venue for musicians. Sorry, you're deluded. If there is money, they will come.

RandomName2 · 08-07-2014 01:33PM

muddypaws wrote: »

Your post wasn't about the effects on that particular gig, it was about the effect on future events, go and re-read it.

I don't understand your point about the mayor criticising it.

Yeah, I know. But the effect on the gig is what has an effect on future events.

Mayor made it look like a one-off; that it was out of order; something that shouldn't have happened.

Mostly hot-air on Borris' part I imagine, but it softens the appearance of it at least from a business point-of-view.

This thing with Croke Park is just a cock up of the highest order. We should probably get to a stage where we just don't have gigs played there and forfeit some of the money invested in the stadium. It would be cleaner

RandomName2 · 08-07-2014 01:36PM

SteM wrote: »

You don't think those 'entertainment vendors' won't look at the decades of gigs that have been run at Croke Park without a hitch. They won't look at all of the shows put on at Lansdowne over the years? All of the shows at Slane over the years? The **** load of festivals that are run in this country every summer?

You think they'll just look at the one negative (which in my view is a positive - we're a country that adheres to it's planning laws) and steer clear of Ireland as a venue for musicians. Sorry, you're deluded. If there is money, they will come.

As I said, if they've had past dealings they won't mind. If they haven't, they'll think twice. Vendors won't really care about planning regulations (excluding liability, and also, to a certain extent, health and safety).

pc7 · 08-07-2014 01:37PM

The guy who lodged the complaint to the High Court, will he pay the fees or are the residents association?

SteM · 08-07-2014 01:38PM

RandomName2 wrote: »

Yeah, I know. But the effect on the gig is what has an effect on future events.

No, it really won't.

RandomName2 wrote: »

We should probably get to a stage where we just don't have gigs played there and forfeit some of the money invested in the stadium. It would be cleaner

There's no reason why Croker shouldn't be used as a music venue. It's certainly not my favorite venue in the world but it does a job. As long as it's used while respecting the planning laws and the also local residents then I don't see why it shouldn't hold concerts a few times a year.

eeepaulo · 08-07-2014 01:39PM

Do you think garth feels unwelcome after following this thread?

RandomName2 · 08-07-2014 01:40PM

SteM wrote: »

No, it really won't.

They really do?

Happyman42 · 08-07-2014 01:40PM

martingriff wrote: »

As you say they have deposits however they had all those rooms "sold" that could have been going to other people. Also due to the large amount they may have had extra staff on for that night for extra pay who will now not get it

Yes there is that, but isn't that why we pay deposits, I do that in my business, the deposit covers any raw materials I may have to buy in. Deal goes south all I lose is my time and work.
How much effect would that have on a hotel's accounts (it's just 2 nights) It's hardly a major financial disaster worthy of throwing out the laws of the land that were designed to stop political and other interference in planning.

muddypaws · 08-07-2014 01:42PM

RandomName2 wrote: »

Yeah, I know. But the effect on the gig is what has an effect on future events.

Mayor made it look like a one-off; that it was out of order; something that shouldn't have happened.

Mostly hot-air on Borris' part I imagine, but it softens the appearance of it at least from a business point-of-view.

This thing with Croke Park is just a cock up of the highest order. We should probably get to a stage where we just don't have gigs played there and forfeit some of the money invested in the stadium. It would be cleaner

Have you not noticed the politicians here also objecting about this situation? Boris is a media whore, and actually, bringing him and his actions into it strengthens the opposing argument - even the London mayor can't affect planning restrictions and rules. So why should the Dublin mayor (or other politicians) be able to? If we do want to be taken seriously, from a business point of view, the laws need to be adhered to.

Businesses take punts all the time, some of them come off, some don't. Pragmatic businesses understand that, and will see that this was a punt from Aiken, GB and CP. From a purely business point of view, there are 3 concerts with the go ahead and potential to earn money, to cancel those in a fit of pique surely has to be an insane business decision.

SteM · 08-07-2014 01:46PM

RandomName2 wrote: »

As I said, if they've had past dealings they won't mind. If they haven't, they'll think twice. Vendors won't really care about planning regulations (excluding liability, and also, to a certain extent, health and safety).

What 'vendors' are you talking about? Musicians don't book themselves into venues like Croke Park you know? That's all done through agents that handle clients that can fill out the likes of Croker are few and far between. There are not many major promoters in this country. In the group of artists that can sell out the likes of Slane, Croker, Lansdowne, Pheonix Park etc the agents know the promoters etc.

There'll be no 'thinking twice'. If The Foo Fighters are touring Europe next summer and it's worth their while financially to play Dublin do you really think their agent is going to say, 'Well I don't about that place, I read some dodgy things about it on the internet last summer. Maybe we should leave the €€€€'s that the promoter is offering us and steer clear.'? You're making something out of nothing in this regard.

currins_02 · 08-07-2014 01:49PM

Hold my hand up as having tix for the Saturday night but can take or leave him (although the wife is a major fan). I do have a very good acquintence who works in the major event game but as a subbie and has worked extensively for both MCD and Aiken at times.

That said the blame game, for me, should point at the process rather than Aiken, GB, GAA, DCC or residents.

The reality is "subject to licence" is how most events are sold here due to the Process. MCD are as guilty of that as Aiken. Full applications can't be made until full submissions are compiled, that can be delayed by the need for event specific input (can't just pull off the shelf file for certain elements even if location has been used many times) such as Garda input re security & traffic etc. The plans for 1D for instance would be vastly different to GB due to the demographic. Equally, the plan for a death metal band would be different to a Disney type show. It can take months to assemble that file and as Stuart Clarke from Hotpress has said in many media outlets in the last week they simply can't hold major acts on the long finger waiting on that. He mentioned the process in many countries takes days not the 5-10-14 weeks being quoted here. Without operating how we have operated Ireland would simply miss out on the big acts as they're not going to wait weeks or months to see if we get a licence. I beleive some of the licences for Marley Park in the last few weeks were granted only days before the event themselves. Equally on at least one occasion Oxigen licence was granted the week of the event.

I wonder would this create a precedent that an event may now not be offered a yes or no but now may be granted in part. So Oxigen type festival applies for 3 days and only gets 2?? That would be bound to make festival bookers nervous of tying acts to Irish events would it not?

A sad case for all involved no matter what the turn out. The GAA needs to engage with residents. Promoters need to kick up a fuss and politicos need to create a workable process.

If it does turn out that there are forged letters from residents my sympathy for thsoe affected wouldn't diminish but my respect for and the credibility of their organisations would be gone.

Wishiwasa Littlebitaller · 08-07-2014 01:51PM

ColeTrain wrote: »

It would be tremendous if Brooks pulled the plug on the three shows. Can you imagine the rage? It would be a fitting end to painfully insignificant story..

This post sums up the vast majority of people that so vehemently opposed to the concerts being salvaged. You all just really want to see people disappointed and chaos ensuing for the ticket holders who have booked flights, hotels etc. It comes across as really immature and shows that resident agreements being breached are far from what motivates hundreds of posts on this thread, as it's seems really just to be an opportunity for many of you to point and laugh, in Nelson Muntz fashion.

The promoter and the GAA are at fault here, as partially are our nonsense licensing laws of course, but the artist and 160,000 people who bought tickets are not and so should in no way be made to carry the can. The way to deal with this was fines, compensate the residents and ban Aitken / the GAA from holding anymore concerts at the venue for the next two years. It was not to punish the ticket holders by cancelling gigs when the tickets have already been sold. That's just closing the stable door after the horse has already bolted.

I'm no fan Fianna Fail, but their Bill proposal which would allow Government to overturn council decisions is surely needed. If not now, then at some point in the future and it's ludicrous situation that local council can make a decision to refuse a licence for a concert when tickets have already been sold for it, especially when the fact that tickets can be sold for unlicensed events is Government's fault to begin with. Until that idiotic state of affairs is dealt with, then a bill like the following is what is needed:

http://cdn.thejournal.ie/media/2014/07/planning-and-development-amendment-bill-2014.pdf

SteM · 08-07-2014 01:53PM

currins_02 wrote: »

I wonder would this create a precedent that an event may now not be offered a yes or no but now may be granted in part. So Oxigen type festival applies for 3 days and only gets 2?? That would be bound to make festival bookers nervous of tying acts to Irish events would it not?

A festival is an event. You apply for a license for the festival, not separate days of the festival. It's either denied or granted (or granted with stipulations).

Croke Park residents to seek concert injuctions.....your opinions?

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