Croke Park residents to seek concert injuctions.....your opinions?

Happyman42 · 07-07-2014 11:31PM

Red Nissan wrote: »

What? Since when?

Have you a source for this or not?

The Government announced initiating emergency legislation to fastrack planning

Red Nissan · 07-07-2014 11:36PM

Reformed Character wrote: »

And it will be at least another generation until they get power again, especially with that retard from cork leading them!

I have not voted for him for a decade now.

Funny story if I may, back in the stone age we covered a story where the then education minister of the same name opened a new computer room fully equipped for the time, quite impressive actually.

So a few months later I was short a story so we went back to the schools to see how they were getting on with their massive computers, we found the computer room locked as no staff knew how to use them let alone teach them, we published that.

Soon after we were at another announcement for computers and Micháel looked directly at us and said and I also am sending the teachers on a computer course and paying for the extra credentials to actually use an teach. Result. IMO, that was that man's crowning glory.

ThisRegard · 07-07-2014 11:54PM

Red Nissan wrote: »

Quantify, where did I say anything like that ~ and you should see the online headlines too alongside my statements.

""Residents" call off their protest against the concerts, later modified to there being no need to protest as the extra concerts are cancelled. It emerges that there are at least seven different and un-united"resident" Groups." by you, a few posts back.

Do you want to argue over the difference between modify and alter?

ThisRegard · 07-07-2014 11:58PM

Red Nissan wrote: »

I have not voted for him for a decade now.

Funny story if I may, back in the stone age we covered a story where the then education minister of the same name opened a new computer room fully equipped for the time, quite impressive actually.

So a few months later I was short a story so we went back to the schools to see how they were getting on with their massive computers, we found the computer room locked as no staff knew how to use them let alone teach them, we published that.

Soon after we were at another announcement for computers and Micháel looked directly at us and said and I also am sending the teachers on a computer course and paying for the extra credentials to actually use an teach. Result. IMO, that was that man's crowning glory.

There's no way you were every a journalist of any type based on your level of debating on this thread.

Red Nissan · 07-07-2014 11:58PM

ThisRegard wrote: »

Do you want to argue over the difference between modify and alter?

Sorry. Imagine it's my first day at school. I'm obviously not making the connection.

Red Nissan · 08-07-2014 12:03AM

ThisRegard wrote: »

There's no way you were every a journalist of any type based on your level of debating on this thread.

Go on. See, I've a very fundamental difference in an after hours thread, it's a pub. Not a debating society. And I never said I was a journalist anyway, but I published the biggest weekly newspaper in Cork at one time.

hynesie08 · 08-07-2014 12:05AM

I think peter aiken might be reading this thread.
http://www.goldenplec.com/aiken-release-clarification-garth-brooks-concerts/?utm_campaign=twitter&utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=twitter

Garth Brooks response to the licence for the 3 rather than the 5 concerts was not an ultimatum, it was simply an expression of genuine concern for his fans.

The complete misrepresentation of Garth Brooks as a person and as an artist is ill informed and is scandalous.

Gergiev · 08-07-2014 12:09AM

Happyman42 wrote: »

What will have changed by Thursday? Decision has been made, the DCC can't revoke it.
Garth has said it's 5 or none.

Why is he making another statement? He wouldn't be waiting to see if his brinkmanship(coached by Aitken I'd wager) will pay off, would he by any chance?

Tut tut, Happyman.

You don't really believe that now, do you?

Wishiwasa Littlebitaller · 08-07-2014 12:10AM

hynesie08 wrote: »

I do have a sunday ticket, I still feel like garths being a massive baby.

Never said you didn't. I think you missed the operative word in what I asked you:

Wishiwasa Littlebitaller wrote: »

Well, maybe consider how you would feel if you only had the Sunday ticket.

Happyman42 · 08-07-2014 12:10AM

hynesie08 wrote: »

I think peter aiken might be reading this thread.
http://www.goldenplec.com/aiken-release-clarification-garth-brooks-concerts/?utm_campaign=twitter&utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=twitter

Garth Brooks response to the licence for the 3 rather than the 5 concerts was not an ultimatum, it was simply an expression of genuine concern for his fans.

The complete misrepresentation of Garth Brooks as a person and as an artist is ill informed and is scandalous.

The gambit hasn't worked...3 gigs it is so. Aitken is a chancer. :rolleyes:

Red Nissan · 08-07-2014 12:11AM

hynesie08 wrote: »

The complete misrepresentation of Garth Brooks as a person and as an artist is ill informed and is scandalous.

He's BACKING DOWN FOLKS, he will reluctantly do the three concerts and capitulate the others.

THAT's My own interpretation.

Happyman42 · 08-07-2014 12:13AM

....unless the High Court case wins.

hynesie08 · 08-07-2014 12:14AM

Wishiwasa Littlebitaller wrote: »

Never said you didn't. I think you missed the operative word in what I asked you:

Oh ok, I'd be worried that it'd be cancelled but i'd accept that it's just a gig. I got over having to miss springsteen in msg on my birthday, I'd get over this.

Red Nissan · 08-07-2014 12:16AM

Happyman42 wrote: »

....unless the High Court case wins.

Go way, go way, shooo

Wishiwasa Littlebitaller · 08-07-2014 12:19AM

hynesie08 wrote: »

I got over having to miss springsteen in msg on my birthday.

Nobody would get over that. Now I know you're lying :P

hynesie08 · 08-07-2014 12:21AM

Wishiwasa Littlebitaller wrote: »

Nobody would get over that. Now I know you're lying :P

2009, the river in full for the first and only time. Flights and hotel booked, Had to cancel the week before. Lucky i've seen him 6 times since then.

Red Nissan · 08-07-2014 12:22AM

Night Folks, happy dreams.

Gergiev · 08-07-2014 12:25AM

LordNorbury wrote: »

Sure there was an agreement and the agreement was not respected, I think this is the point the residents Association are trying to make and the council have backed them up fully.

I saw footage the other day of a lockdown type situation around Croke Park before the One Direction concert, where residents had a situation whereby private security people, not even Gardai, were enforcing security controls on streets around Croke Park. I'm sure this is normal enough protocol for large scale events like this, but have any of us ever wondered what it would be like to be living with Gaza strip like security controls operating around us? You'd put up with it on some level, but at what point does it start to feel like you are continually under some sort of a siege in your own house?!?

It seems to me that an agreement was reached and then an agreement was disregarded and the same thing that has caused the ruination of this country and in particular our economy in recent years, namely greed, greed and more fúcking greed, has now been the cause of this debacle, where one organisation appeared to think that it was so well in with the local authority, that the licensing of the event was a mere formality that was as good as in the bag, that the auld nudge and the wink would take care of everything at the end of the day. This is the very same kind of blatant disregard for the planning process in this country, that had shíthole shoebox sized apartments made of glorified cardboard, being thrown up all over the place, some of which have to now be pulled down because they can't even meet the most basic of fire safety regulations.

We can't have it every which way, we can't criticise public authorities when they are asleep at the wheel and then as we have seen with the banks, all sorts of recklessness ends up going on under their noses because they have failed to enforce the law, but yet then when a local authority tries to impose the law and hold people to it, we decide to have a national shít hemorrhage about it because we stupidly think that our still bamboozled domestic economy in Dublin, needs the money more than the whole country needs to have a regime where the laws of the land actually mean something.

We can't have it both ways I think.

The Irish domestic economy has been in a complete heap for the last 6 years, it was destroyed before there was any mention of Garth Brooks coming here, and is still being wrecked through continuing austerity, we have tolerated tens of billions of Euro being taken out of our own pockets by our own government, to pay for failed zombie banks, yet we have a collective nervous breakdown when a local authority tries to fairly apply the law in the face of big business interests in the capital, such as the GAA and the Dublin Chamber of Commerce, when the outcome of that decision is that a concert worth around 50 million Euro to the Dublin economy, (50 million that practically none of us will realistically share in unless we happen to own a hotel or a pub in Dublin), is possibly cancelled or curtailed.

Also, the emotional blackmail coming from business lobby groups, the "oh look, the world is watching us now, careful there Ted, we don't want to upset the markets or those bondholders again", that are trying to push back a lawful decision that has been made by the proper authorities, I find to be personally sickening. We are not eejits, we have laws and please God if we have learnt anything in the last 10 years, it is that light touch regulation or no regulation at all, has certainly not done us much service.

Great post, Noble Lord.

The news agenda is being dominated by those with deep pockets and expensive PR firms whose modus operandi is to take control of the 'narrative' and make sure everyone opposed is just reacting to their version of the issue.

Thus we have the constant iteration of the term 'debacle' in the media and the need for a 'solution' to this latest Croke Park imbroglio.

Whereas actually the decision handed down by the city manager IS the 'solution' as the process involves an application for a license, a 5 week window for those supporting and opposing to make 'observations' and then a further period for the manager to decide...which he has done.

Would that our former 'financial regulator' had such independence of mind and we mightn't be in the mess we are in, now...

PTH2009 · 08-07-2014 12:27AM

Heard all the shows got cancelled by Garth himself

Very disappointing as I had Friday night tickets

Fred Swanson · 08-07-2014 12:27AM

This post has been deleted.

Fred Swanson · 08-07-2014 12:28AM

This post has been deleted.

JRant · 08-07-2014 12:29AM

Reformed Character wrote: »

The Gov cannot initiate emergency legislation on this issue, the Constitution is very clear on the very limited circumstances under which emergency legislation may be introduced.

Surely this is the biggest emergency in the states history since 'The Emergency'

Happyman42 · 08-07-2014 12:32AM

JRant wrote: »

Surely this is the biggest emergency in the states history since 'The Emergency'

Joe Dolan sang that one? I can hum it.

leahyl · 08-07-2014 12:32AM

I have to say, I have tickets myself, but it's got to the stage now where I'm finding all this highly entertaining! It's like the cliffhanger in a soap opera, you wait patiently to see what's going to happen in the next episode ;-)

twowheelsonly · 08-07-2014 12:35AM

jack presley wrote: »

It's a 10 week process. I'm quite happy that they took their time, examined the pros and cons of each side and took the expertise from all the qualified experts from the relevant departments before making a decision. I'd much prefer that to making a rash decision after a few days without consulting with anyone.

I think you're missing my point. Both the GAA and DCC say that there's an agreement there for a max of 3 concerts a year. By allowing this 3 they're in contravention of their own agreements anyway despite cancelling 2 gigs to try to appease the residents. In theory there was no need for any licencing process or decision to be made as they should have stepped in long before that.

On (kind of!) the same topic the whole licencing thing is a catch 22.
DCC or whatever relevant City/County Council cannot consider or issue the licence until all relevant info is submitted. This includes stage plans, stadium plans, traffic management, security, 1st Aid, emergency plans, Garda and Fire Officer consultations, staffing plans and probably a million more pieces of paper.
IMO this is all impossible to quantify without knowing what size crowd is expected. It's the chicken and the egg conundrum. Sell the tickets first and at least you know what size crowd etc to expect. Wait for the licence first, (submitting all the plans which costs a lot of money and involves contracting the artist) and pray that the gig sells. If there's massive demand do you put on a 2nd show? Does it need a new licence? If people object to one then they'll object to a 2nd one and so on. Do you seek the licence for 3 shows and drop one if they don't sell?
It's not quite as simple as 'get the licence first' as some people seem to think. Gigs would have to be planned 12 months in advance if not more. Todays big thing could be nobodies by tomorrow. At one stage JLS could have drawn 50,000 kids. 12 Months later they'd be lucky to fill a pub!!

Personally I think the system works well as it is. This is the first big failure of a system that has worked well for years. It's a pretty spectacular one but I don't think it justifies massive changes.

JRant · 08-07-2014 12:39AM

Happyman42 wrote: »

Joe Dolan sang that one? I can hum it.

What's your favourite humming sound?

mrsbyrne · 08-07-2014 12:41AM

JRant wrote: »

What's your favourite humming sound?

I used to love the hum the cigarette machine made before it spat out 20 lovely Silk Cut Ultra

hynesie08 · 08-07-2014 12:42AM

twowheelsonly wrote: »

I think you're missing my point. Both the GAA and DCC say that there's an agreement there for a max of 3 concerts a year. By allowing this 3 they're in contravention of their own agreements anyway despite cancelling 2 gigs to try to appease the residents. In theory there was no need for any licencing process or decision to be made as they should have stepped in long before that.

Owen keegans solicitor told him that he did not need to take the agreement into consideration when making this decision.

Gergiev · 08-07-2014 12:46AM

leahyl wrote: »

I have to say, I have tickets myself, but it's got to the stage now where I'm finding all this highly entertaining! It's like the cliffhanger in a soap opera, you wait patiently to see what's going to happen in the next episode ;-)

Good spirit, Leahy - I commend you to the House!

JRant · 08-07-2014 12:47AM

twowheelsonly wrote: »

I think you're missing my point. Both the GAA and DCC say that there's an agreement there for a max of 3 concerts a year. By allowing this 3 they're in contravention of their own agreements anyway despite cancelling 2 gigs to try to appease the residents. In theory there was no need for any licencing process or decision to be made as they should have stepped in long before that.

On (kind of!) the same topic the whole licencing thing is a catch 22.
DCC or whatever relevant City/County Council cannot consider or issue the licence until all relevant info is submitted. This includes stage plans, stadium plans, traffic management, security, 1st Aid, emergency plans, Garda and Fire Officer consultations, staffing plans and probably a million more pieces of paper.
IMO this is all impossible to quantify without knowing what size crowd is expected. It's the chicken and the egg conundrum. Sell the tickets first and at least you know what size crowd etc to expect. Wait for the licence first, (submitting all the plans which costs a lot of money and involves contracting the artist) and pray that the gig sells. If there's massive demand do you put on a 2nd show? Does it need a new licence? If people object to one then they'll object to a 2nd one and so on. Do you seek the licence for 3 shows and drop one if they don't sell?
It's not quite as simple as 'get the licence first' as some people seem to think. Gigs would have to be planned 12 months in advance if not more. Todays big thing could be nobodies by tomorrow. At one stage JLS could have drawn 50,000 kids. 12 Months later they'd be lucky to fill a pub!!

Personally I think the system works well as it is. This is the first big failure of a system that has worked well for years. It's a pretty spectacular one but I don't think it justifies massive changes.

First. Why should DCC have stepped in early? They were only presented with the application 10 weeks before the concerts date.

Second. The license is for the venue, not the act playing in it. If you're booking an 80,000 seater stadium is not because you expect 400 people to turn up. You plan for it's capacity and then scale back if needs be.

Croke Park residents to seek concert injuctions.....your opinions?

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