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SSM Referendum Spring 2015

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Comments

  • #1622
    Carlos Orange
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,499 ✭✭✭Carlos Orange


    floggg wrote: »
    Do you really think anybody wants to shame them or punish them? The yes side aren't advocating for marriage equality just so we can get a dig in at, or piss off, the other side.

    I think it would be pretty naive to think people won't be socially shamed and punished for being against ssm in the years to come. It isn't the purpose but it is pretty inevitable.


  • #1623
    shruikan2553
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,113 ✭✭✭shruikan2553


    floggg wrote: »
    I had a father and still had to figure out how to shave all by myself!

    So no loss then.

    I have no father and a beard. Im doomed!


  • #1624
    eviltwin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    psinno wrote: »
    It seems pretty inevitable that SSM will happen in Ireland whether it happens next year or not and how the minority of people who disagree with it are going to be treated does play into how I will vote (or not). How many of them there are and how much time they have had to adjust does as well. If not being able to socially shame and punish them for their beliefs is too big an ask then so be it.

    Tbh if you're going to use that kind of criteria to decide one of the most important referendums in our lifetime to date then its pretty clear what side of the fence you sit on.


  • #1625
    _Redzer_
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,056 ✭✭✭_Redzer_


    floggg wrote: »
    I had a father and still had to figure out how to shave all by myself!

    So no loss then.

    It was the same case for me. I had to learn to do everything myself, not that it was in any way difficult.

    My Dad didn't teach me how to do anything, yet I was still amongst the best in the class in engineering and construction studies at school.

    One of my best friends would've have a dad very similar to my own who wouldn't have been a hands on parent at all, yet did very well in all those areas and is straight -just in case there's any sort of correlation drawn between having a dad who wasn't very involved and turning out gay.

    The fact is, just because a parent is there, doesn't mean they actually are "there". My dad was more or less always in the sidelines. If he wasn't there at all it wouldn't have made a difference to my development.

    So no, there's really nothing special about having two parents in every case.


  • #1626
    floggg
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,821 ✭✭✭floggg


    psinno wrote: »
    I think it would be pretty naive to think people won't be socially shamed and punished for being against ssm in the years to come. It isn't the purpose but it is pretty inevitable.

    No, they won't be punished.

    But don't you think somebody who tries to discriminate against another group should be ashamed of themselves?

    Honestly, I'm getting flabbergasted. You're essentially arguing that in the long run the only real victims of discrimination against LGBT people will end the perpetrators of the discrimination.

    Do you not think yhe fault might lie with them for discriminating against us, rather than us for fighting back against it?

    Can you please tell me why you think I should have to wait to for equality until they come around? Why are more rights secondary to the feelings or reputation of a person who went out of his way to further discrimination against me?

    Because while I didn't choose this battle, it was forced upon me just for being LGBT, they made a choice to campaign again my rights. Nobody forced them to do so.


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  • #1627
    krudler
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,788 ✭✭✭✭krudler


    fran17 wrote: »
    I've made them very clear in many many posts.but ok i'll humour you:

    1 its not marriage.by calling it marriage is an untruth.marriage has always been a covenant between a man and a woman.the name alone maritare is latin for to provide a husband or wife.ie male and female.
    2 if there is children involved in this then it denies them the natural right to have a mother and father.nobody can deny that this is the appropriate environment for a child to develop.its there natural right
    3 it does not create a family.the overwhelming majority of families are such to conceive children to continue there blood line and the future generation of our country.i believe any legalisation of anything to the contrary would weaken this and should be opposed.
    4 it enforces the views of a very small minority on all of society.by legalising this all citizens of the state must comply with this.public servants are forced to officiate in this and public schools are forced to teach it to children.
    5 its against nature.a mam to lie with another man or a woman to lie with another woman is not the natural law of things hence is unnatural.
    6 its against god himself.Gen 1:28-29,19:24-25 Mark 10:6-7

    but of course because very few on this thread don't recognise either religion or morality or natural law then let the insults begin...

    1. Marriage isn't natural, it's a man made concept.

    2. It's been said time and time again even by people on this very forum who grew up with gay parent(s) who are perfectly well adjusted people regardless of their parental structure. Having the ability to make a kid doesnt make you a good parent. Long as someone can raise a child right it doesnt matter about their sexual preferences.

    3. The family structure has changed over the years, single parents, divorcees, adopted kids etc etc. Are these not "real" families? If a couple who have children from previous partners marry are they not a real family? cos that's pretty common these days.

    4. Nobodies being forced into anything. as for the school argument? oh no, kids will be taught to accept others and embrace differences in society, whatever shall we do?!

    5. The "natural" argument again, which you're typing on a machine connected to the entire world communication network via a phone line and electricity. Not natural either.

    6. The old bible argument, hope you're not wearing a garment made of two different materials, he hates that too.


  • #1628
    J_E
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,734 ✭✭✭J_E


    fran17 wrote: »
    I believe the tipping point in this whole process will be the st.patricks day celebrations next march.after the whole debacle that was this year and how our nation was,in my opinion,humilliated on the world stage by a very small minority of our citizens.if next years parade is not given more respect then it will possibly be the nail in this referendums coffin
    The venom seeps through with every post. Sometimes subtly, sometimes not, but you certainly display a sheer disgust of homosexuals, which I find both confusing in one sense and saddening in another.
    fran17 wrote: »
    2 if there is children involved in this then it denies them the natural right to have a mother and father.nobody can deny that this is the appropriate environment for a child to develop.its there natural right
    Absolutely not. Been proven that 2 loving parents are the important factor
    it enforces the views of a very small minority on all of society
    5 its against nature.a mam to lie with another man or a woman to lie with another woman is not the natural law of things hence is unnatural.
    6 its against god himself.Gen 1:28-29,19:24-25 Mark 10:6-7
    it enforces the views of a very small minority on all of society


    "Above all, show sincere love to each other, because love brings about the forgiveness of many sins." Peter 4:8. Maybe this could be a part of the Bible you might consider adopting.


  • #1629
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Cydoniac wrote: »
    The venom seeps through with every post. Sometimes subtly, sometimes not, but you certainly display a sheer disgust of homosexuals, which I find both confusing in one sense and saddening in another.


    You any idea what hes on about with regards to the paddys day parade?


  • #1630
    J_E
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,734 ✭✭✭J_E


    Nodin wrote: »
    You any idea what hes on about with regards to the paddys day parade?
    Must have been the queers he was on about in their 'sordid dens and public toilets'


  • #1631
    fran17
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,262 ✭✭✭fran17


    Sonics2k wrote: »
    My parents are lesbians. I was raised just as well as my friends with straight parents, went on the same holidays and lived essentially the same life. I'm now hitting 30, doing rather well in my career, have two children of my own and even took part in a charity skydive just last week for an animal shelter in Cork.

    Tell me again how its not a normal life. I dare you.

    sorry put I never used the word normal once.what is normal can have many different meanings to many different people.but history,nature and religion is factual and is recognised over many millennia


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  • #1632
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    psinno wrote: »
    I think it would be pretty naive to think people won't be socially shamed and punished for being against ssm in the years to come. It isn't the purpose but it is pretty inevitable.


    It seems pretty inevitable that SSM will happen in Ireland whether it happens next year or not and how the minority of people who disagree with it are going to be treated does play into how I will vote (or not). How many of them there are and how much time they have had to adjust does as well

    What do you mean by the part in bold?


  • #1633
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Cydoniac wrote: »
    Must have been the queers he was on about in their 'sordid dens and public toilets'


    Must have been a big float.

    Anyhoo, he's back now so we might be enlightened.....


  • #1634
    _Redzer_
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,056 ✭✭✭_Redzer_


    fran17 wrote: »
    sorry put I never used the word normal once.what is normal can have many different meanings to many different people.but history,nature and religion is factual and is recognised over many millennia

    Religion is factual. Lol!


  • #1635
    J_E
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,734 ✭✭✭J_E


    fran17 wrote: »
    sorry put I never used the word normal once.what is normal can have many different meanings to many different people.but history,nature and religion is factual and is recognised over many millennia
    Why should people have to tolerate your religious beliefs if you won't tolerate the beliefs and lives of others, particularly when they are not colliding with your own in any way?


  • #1636
    fran17
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,262 ✭✭✭fran17


    _Redzer_ wrote: »
    Religion is factual. Lol!

    at least you agree that history and nature is.thats progress


  • #1637
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    fran17 wrote: »
    sorry put I never used the word normal once.what is normal can have many different meanings to many different people.but history,nature and religion is factual and is recognised over many millennia

    Not as well as we'd like, but yes.
    http://www.theguardian.com/science/2014/jul/06/worlds-earliest-erotic-graffiti-astypalaia-classical-Greece

    Care to explain your remark about the paddys day parade?


  • #1638
    _Redzer_
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,056 ✭✭✭_Redzer_


    fran17 wrote: »
    at least you agree that history and nature is.thats progress

    You completely ignored my post talking about history and nature, which I discussed same sex unions and homosexuality in nature.

    Are you going to respond to my post regarding those things at all? Or are you just going to go around in circles repeating yourself and only hearing what you want to?


  • #1639
    fran17
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,262 ✭✭✭fran17


    Nodin wrote: »
    You any idea what hes on about with regards to the paddys day parade?

    for the people with short memories,or selective memories,im talking about a very small minority of our population who attempted to take the spotlight off a celebration of Ireland,and turn it into an event,through a nasty and subtle media campaign,which displayed the irish people as bigots and "homophobes" throughout the world


  • #1640
    J_E
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,734 ✭✭✭J_E


    Darn, he knows about our gay agenda. :eek:

    Hide the instruction manuals! Round up the recruits! You saw nothing...


  • #1641
    Links234
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,944 ✭✭✭✭Links234


    fran17 wrote: »
    for the people with short memories,or selective memories,im talking about a very small minority of our population who attempted to take the spotlight off a celebration of Ireland,and turn it into an event,through a nasty and subtle media campaign,which displayed the irish people as bigots and "homophobes" throughout the world

    ...the **** are you on about? :confused: Seriously.


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  • #1642
    shruikan2553
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,113 ✭✭✭shruikan2553


    fran17 wrote: »
    for the people with short memories,or selective memories,im talking about a very small minority of our population who attempted to take the spotlight off a celebration of Ireland,and turn it into an event,through a nasty and subtle media campaign,which displayed the irish people as bigots and "homophobes" throughout the world

    Dont worry, the bigots and homophobes dont need any help.


  • #1643
    _Redzer_
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,056 ✭✭✭_Redzer_


    fran17 wrote: »
    for the people with short memories,or selective memories,im talking about a very small minority of our population who attempted to take the spotlight off a celebration of Ireland,and turn it into an event,through a nasty and subtle media campaign,which displayed the irish people as bigots and "homophobes" throughout the world

    You basically just don't like gay people or anything at all even remotely connected to us, right?

    You'd might as well just admit it. That'd be the only justification you have against equal rights. I'd have more respect for you if you just admitted it too, instead of this charade about nature and children.


  • #1644
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    fran17 wrote: »
    for the people with short memories,or selective memories,im talking about a very small minority of our population who attempted to take the spotlight off a celebration of Ireland,and turn it into an event,through a nasty and subtle media campaign,which displayed the irish people as bigots and "homophobes" throughout the world


    Well we're getting somewhere at least. My short memory would like a link to what you're referring to, because I'm unaware of this attempt.


  • #1645
    Daith
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,284 ✭✭✭Daith


    Nodin wrote: »
    Well we're getting somewhere at least. My short memory would like a link to what you're referring to, because I'm unaware of this attempt.

    He's probably referring to the New York Parade. What this has to do with Ireland a referendum on same sex marriage I have no idea.


  • #1646
    fran17
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,262 ✭✭✭fran17


    Links234 wrote: »
    ...the **** are you on about? :confused: Seriously.

    well your the one who agrees that Jesus Christ suffered from mental illness and was bipolar.so I could ask the same question of yourself lol


  • #1647
    Daith
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,284 ✭✭✭Daith


    fran17 wrote: »
    well your the one who agrees that Jesus Christ suffered from mental illness and was bipolar.so I could ask the same question of yourself lol

    Well that's cos Jesus had two Dads. No wonder he ended up crazy.


  • #1648
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Daith wrote: »
    He's probably referring to the New York Parade. What this has to do with Ireland a referendum on same sex marriage I have no idea.


    That occurred to me, but he seemed to be referring to here....getting info out of some people is like getting blood out of a stone.


  • #1649
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    fran17 wrote: »
    well your the one who agrees that Jesus Christ suffered from mental illness and was bipolar.so I could ask the same question of yourself lol


    Do me a favour - stop the waffle and clearly and concisely explain yourself.

    ",im talking about a very small minority of our population who attempted to take the spotlight off a celebration of Ireland,and turn it into an event,through a nasty and subtle media campaign,which displayed the irish people as bigots and "homophobes" throughout the world"

    What exactly are you referring to by the above? I'd like a link to a news story about it as well, if you would.


  • #1650
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Daith wrote: »
    Well that's cos Jesus had two Dads. No wonder he ended up crazy.


    Two dads, mother a virgin, not sure if he had brothers or not....its no wonder he ended up bewildered.


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  • #1651
    fran17
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,262 ✭✭✭fran17


    Nodin wrote: »
    Well we're getting somewhere at least. My short memory would like a link to what you're referring to, because I'm unaware of this attempt.

    I believe one of the groupings went by the ever so pleasant name of "irish queers" google it


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