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Croke Park residents to seek concert injuctions.....your opinions?

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Comments

  • #6212
    Buzz Killington the third
    Closed Accounts Posts: 937 ✭✭✭Buzz Killington the third


    Reformed Character wrote: »
    The HC can't grant a licence, they can only rule as to whether DCC's decision is valid.
    You seem to have a lack of understanding as to how the law works.

    I'm relaying what was stated on the radio. They said the HC are the only ones who can over rule the decision. Which is true, they over rule and pass it back to DCC who can then grant the license.


  • #6213
    jack presley
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,687 ✭✭✭✭jack presley


    Buzz Killington the third wrote: »
    I'm relaying what was stated on the radio. They said the HC are the only ones who can over rule the decision. Which is true, they over rule and pass it back to DCC who can then grant the license.

    That's not what you said earlier
    Buzz Killington the third wrote: »
    High court can over rule and grant a license.


  • #6214
    oppenheimer1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,084 ✭✭✭oppenheimer1


    kitchenkid wrote: »
    How can the city manager grant permission for any concerts as the limit is 3 p a according to reports and the three have been held for 1D already in 2014? It is like saying he can grant permission for a 4 storey house even though the outline permission was for a two storey!!!

    I think there are grounds for judicial review all right, but the outcome would be Zero concerts this year.

    Otherwise, what was the point of ever introducing a limit of 3 in the initial permission to the GAA.....

    I dont care if there are no concerts or one a week, I just think the law should be observed by everyone, and no city manager or concert promoter or warbler should be allowed ignore it.

    The planning permission was for three events per year. What constitutes an event wasn't defined. Was the three nights of 1D one event or three?


  • #6215
    Buzz Killington the third
    Closed Accounts Posts: 937 ✭✭✭Buzz Killington the third


    sparkynash wrote: »
    I know how it works lol as does mr Aiken but he should have got the licence first and instead he looked for it last.the entire balls up lies with Peter Aiken.

    Jesus Christ... You always get the license last. Licenses are often granted only days before an event!


  • #6216
    Reformed Character
    Closed Accounts Posts: 710 ✭✭✭Reformed Character


    Buzz Killington the third wrote: »
    I'm relaying what was stated on the radio. They said the HC are the only ones who can over rule the decision. Which is true, they over rule and pass it back to DCC who can then grant the license.

    The point is there are no legal grounds to take a case to the HC as DCC clearly followed the law and reached a valid decision.
    The only ones with any chance in the HC are the residents who could, and are threatening to, take an action seeking an injunction preventing any of the concerts taking place based on the original planning permission.


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  • #6217
    JRant
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,200 ✭✭✭✭JRant


    ThisRegard wrote: »
    Pretty awful article in the SINDO, reads like it was written by someone here given its 'impartiality'. Also I don't think people will be using that former LRC stooge Mulvey as an 'impartial' mediator anymore.

    http://m.independent.ie/irish-news/news/no-plan-to-enact-emergency-laws-to-save-garth-brooks-five-concerts-at-croker-30409384.html

    Jaysus that's a dreadful piece, even for the Sindo.

    When I heard Paraic Duffy falling over himself to agree to Mulveys recommendations I knew something was up. After having a read of them it became very clear that his report was a wishing list from CP and had very little, if any, input from the RA.

    I also loved the way the residents group clamouring for the gigs to be held sounded completely made up. A group with no name, not one person named who could confirm/deny such existance and an unnamed spokesperson or as journalist like to refer to it "I'm just making shït up here".

    "Well, yeah, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man"



  • #6218
    sparkynash
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 142 ✭✭sparkynash


    Because the Galway lads have brains and don't think the country revolves around them.


  • #6219
    jack presley
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,687 ✭✭✭✭jack presley


    oppenheimer1 wrote: »
    The planning permission was for three events per year. What constitutes an event wasn't defined. Was the three nights of 1D one event or three?

    That PP is a bit hazy anyway. It includes conventions as one of the 3. There are probably conventions on in Croke Park every week.


  • #6220
    Steam Roller
    Closed Accounts Posts: 153 ✭✭Steam Roller


    Reformed Character wrote: »
    Is the Galway docks in a heavily built up residential area?
    Were they having huge concerts every night?
    Compare like with like.

    There are apartments and houses there. Events happening every night of the week. The first race didnt come into galway until the middle of night. There were moaners but they didnt stop it. They got on with it.


  • #6221
    jack presley
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,687 ✭✭✭✭jack presley


    Steam Roller wrote: »
    There are apartments and houses there. Events happening every night of the week. The first race didnt come into galway until the middle of night. There were moaners but they didnt stop it. They got on with it.

    Was that a one off thing or does it happen every year? Just wondering because a one off inconvenience is always easier to put up with than something happening year after year and the frequency increasing too.


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  • #6222
    stefan idiot jones
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,518 ✭✭✭stefan idiot jones


    I'm dizzy.

    This thread is the merry go round from Hell.


  • #6223
    Umaro
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,561 ✭✭✭Umaro


    Steam Roller wrote: »
    Galway ocean race in 2012 was over a 9 day period.

    It attracted something like 800,000 visitors, so 88,000 a day. Most of the events were at the docks and is much smaller place.

    How did galway manage an event for 9 days and dublin cant manage 5?

    Maybe the organisers got permissions and licenses from all the stakeholders before they started selling tickets? Just a thought.


  • #6224
    Tigerbaby
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 591 ✭✭✭Tigerbaby


    This may go over the head of the Girth Brooks fans, but.. all this talk of conspiracies, DVD's, helicopters, has the makings of a classic song about a lone guitarist beating back "The Man" to sing his love to his people. Dang it YEAH!!

    It could be another "Smoke on the Water" moment, when one of the greatest rock songs of all time was created because of the Montreaux fire.

    sing along now;

    "Blood on the Canal,
    They tried to stop me singing...
    Blood on the Canal,
    Clonliffe Road Burning down...."


  • #6225
    Steam Roller
    Closed Accounts Posts: 153 ✭✭Steam Roller


    jack presley wrote: »
    Was that a one off thing or does it happen every year? Just wondering because a one off inconvenience is always easier to put up with than something happening year after year and the frequency increasing too.

    It was a one off. Not to mention galway arts festival and the galway race in the whole month. A whole month of events in july.


  • #6226
    Steam Roller
    Closed Accounts Posts: 153 ✭✭Steam Roller


    Umaro wrote: »
    Maybe the organisers got permissions and licenses from all the stakeholders before they started selling tickets? Just a thought.

    It was a free event.


  • #6227
    jack presley
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,687 ✭✭✭✭jack presley


    Steam Roller wrote: »
    It was a one off. Not to mention galway arts festival and the galway race in the whole month. A whole month of events in july.

    All planned properly with the council and with the local's concerns taken on board I'd imagine.


  • #6228
    Steam Roller
    Closed Accounts Posts: 153 ✭✭Steam Roller


    jack presley wrote: »
    All planned properly with the council and with the local's concerns taken on board I'd imagine.

    I wouldnt know so im not going to defend myself on that cause I dont live there.


  • #6229
    Umaro
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,561 ✭✭✭Umaro


    Steam Roller wrote: »
    It was a free event.

    I don't know if you posted this as some sort of a rebuttal - but it still doesn't change the fact that they would've had to go through a licensing and planning process with local residents and the council.

    You're not really comparing like with like when you compare Croke Park to the city of Galway anyway.


  • #6230
    eeepaulo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,438 ✭✭✭eeepaulo


    -considered pause

    actually maybe i can see another groups point of view


  • #6231
    Podge83
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 637 ✭✭✭Podge83


    Steam Roller wrote: »
    Galway ocean race in 2012 was over a 9 day period.

    It attracted something like 800,000 visitors, so 88,000 a day. Most of the events were at the docks and is much smaller place.

    How did galway manage an event for 9 days and dublin cant manage 5?


    FFS this issue isn't anything to do with organization and management of events - that can be done very well. Its about permission and licences!!!!!!!!!


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  • #6232
    Joe Duffy..
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 280 ✭✭Joe Duffy..


    Lol


  • #6233
    Podge83
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 637 ✭✭✭Podge83


    sparkynash wrote: »
    Because the Galway lads have brains and don't think the country revolves around them.

    And the Dubs Know the country revolves around them.

    Dare I mention decentralization.

    Now, back on the merry go round - what about this Garth Brooks Issue?


  • #6234
    iguana
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,917 ✭✭✭✭iguana


    SoCal MusicLover wrote: »
    Honestly, I find it amazing that we are somehow able to live out our lives while still having stadiums that hold large events many times with few, if any, problems. So yeah, perhaps we are more civilized than some of you Irish folk, and as I said, that is pretty sad given that we're not exactly the brightest bulbs in the bunch.
    Have you ever seen the streets around Croke Park? I'm going to guess not. They are more narrow than you can imagine if you are trying for one second to compare them to the wide American streets you are talking about. There is nowhere to park, no public transport to move people in and out. These are for a large part rat runs, unmatched street lengths that haven't a hint of the neat grid system most American streets follow. The houses are mostly tightly packed Victorian and Edwardian terraces, on the smaller streets around the stadium many of the houses don't even have front gardens, their frontdoors and windows open directly onto the street. Many of the roads are so narrow that if a car parks on both sides of the road the road becomes close to impassable.

    During concerts the residents are genuinely on lockdown. Getting into and out of their houses is impossible for many. People with jobs to go to, people with children who want to get out of their small-sometimes gardenless homes, elderly people who need a carer to visit daily, all trapped inside for days on end. And keep your fingerscrossed you don't have a fire or a medical emergency because you'll be dead long before the fire brigade or paramedics have a hope of reaching you.

    I don't live near Croke Park, I don't have Garth Brooks tickets but I have sympathy for both sides. As far as I can see, both groups of people were fuçked over by Aiken/the GAA. But as horribly disappointing as it is to not get to see a concert you were really looking forward to, and I hope everyone involved gets compensated fully, including for hotels, flights and whatever else they have booked. Their disappointment and loss doesn't compare to the loss of ability to just live their lives that the residents around Croke Park suffer every time a music event happens there. Imo, the GAA never should have gotten planning permission for the redevelopment that they did as their location is unsuited to the type of footfall concerts bring. But they did get it and the agreement was for 3 concerts a year, so that should have been it. There were 3 in May, so there should have been no more until next year. If the three that have been given permission go ahead, then that should mean no concerts there in 2015. Perhaps the last 2 should be allowed go ahead, complete with a guarantee that the next concert held there will be in 2017. That's about the only way for everyone to be the least screwed over, though I can see why it would make the residents nervous.


  • #6235
    Red Nissan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,055 ✭✭✭Red Nissan


    Podge83 wrote: »
    Dare I mention decentralization.

    True and with the amount of money from these gigs, two promoters could build a stadium and the infrastructure to it in any part of Ireland out of their own back pockets.

    Imagine they might even sell space back to the GAA or Soccer or Rugby for their big tournaments.


  • #6236
    JRant
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,200 ✭✭✭✭JRant


    Steam Roller wrote: »
    There are apartments and houses there. Events happening every night of the week. The first race didnt come into galway until the middle of night. There were moaners but they didnt stop it. They got on with it.

    Ah but you're missing a very important fact here. The organising comittee are still up to their oxters in debts (some 10's of millions) since the Volvo races. A lot of money may have flowed into the area but it very quickly flowed straight back out again.

    "Well, yeah, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man"



  • #6237
    Wishiwasa Littlebitaller
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,337 ✭✭✭Wishiwasa Littlebitaller


    jack presley wrote: »
    Ah ha, so it's all part of the script for the Dvd extras. Wouldn't that be great, we're all pawns in GB's masterpiece to make the best concert DVD ever.

    Won't be as good as it could have been, if it does get made, as currently they have been told they can't shoot aerial footage with the use of a helicopter.



    You'd swear some of the residents owned Croke Park the way some of them have been speaking.

    Whatever happens with these concerts, I hope the GAA tear up the agreement that they made with the residents. I don't understand how they were ever given the power to hold the GAA to ransom in the first place. Listen to their safety concerns for sure and be fair to them (for example, I don't think work should ever take place there from 9pm to 9am and that includes large vehicles coming and going) but agreeing a limit of just three concerts a year, in a stadium such as Croke Park, is the nonsense cause of this mess (along with poor planning laws of course). They should never have received such a promise as it is far too limiting. Like I said before: a dozen concerts a year would have been a more realistic limit and maybe also restricted to a maximum of three in one week.


  • #6238
    CatFromHue
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 18,330 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatFromHue


    Wishiwasa Littlebitaller wrote: »
    Won't be as good as it could have been, if it does get made, as currently they have been told they can't shoot aerial footage with the use of a helicopter.



    You'd swear some of the residents owned Croke Park the way some of them have been speaking.

    Whatever happens with these concerts, I hope the GAA tear up the agreement that they made with the residents. I don't understand how they were ever given the power to hold the GAA to ransom in the first place. Listen to their safety concerns for sure and be fair to them (for example, I don't think work should ever take place there from 9pm to 9am and that includes large vehicles coming and going) but agreeing a limit of just three concerts a year, in a stadium such as Croke Park, is the nonsense cause of this mess (along with poor planning laws of course). They should never have received such a promise as it is far too limiting. Like I said before: a dozen concerts a year would have been a more realistic limit and maybe also restricted to a maximum of three in one week.

    They already have by letting one Garth Brooks concert go ahead, let alone 3 or 5!


  • #6239
    Reformed Character
    Closed Accounts Posts: 710 ✭✭✭Reformed Character


    Wishiwasa Littlebitaller wrote: »
    Won't be as good as it could have been, if it does get made, as currently they have been told they can't shoot aerial footage with the use of a helicopter.



    You'd swear some of the residents owned Croke Park the way some of them have been speaking.

    Whatever happens with these concerts, I hope the GAA tear up the agreement that they made with the residents. I don't understand how they were ever given the power to hold the GAA to ransom in the first place. Listen to their safety concerns for sure and be fair to them (for example, I don't think work should ever take place there from 9pm to 9am and that includes large vehicles coming and going) but agreeing a limit of just three concerts a year, in a stadium such as Croke Park, is the nonsense cause of this mess (along with poor planning laws of course). They should never have received such a promise as it is far too limiting. Like I said before: a dozen concerts a year would have been a more realistic limit and maybe also restricted to a maximum of three in one week.

    It is already a condition of the planning permission for Croke Park.
    The only ones holding anyone to ransom are Aiken and Brooks.


  • #6240
    nxbyveromdwjpg
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,402 ✭✭✭nxbyveromdwjpg


    Wishiwasa Littlebitaller wrote: »
    WWhatever happens with these concerts, I hope the GAA tear up the agreement that they made with the residents. I don't understand how they were ever given the power to hold the GAA to ransom in the first place.

    Absolutely, this is 100% my sentiment as well.

    If one good thing comes out of these cancellations, it's hopefully that that crazy agreement is revised completely.


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  • #6241
    jack presley
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,687 ✭✭✭✭jack presley


    nm wrote: »
    Absolutely, this is 100% my sentiment as well.

    If one good thing comes out of these cancellations, it's hopefully that that crazy agreement is revised completely.

    They'll still have to apply for licences and the council have shown that they aren't prepared to grant automatically like they may have done in the past.


This discussion has been closed.
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