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SSM Referendum Spring 2015

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Comments

  • #1082
    shruikan2553
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,113 ✭✭✭shruikan2553


    Jester252 wrote: »
    I'm not allowing them to decide how I vote. I'm developing a personal opinion based on a personal interation.

    You can do what you what its a free country. However I don't hate anybody and the LGBT community will be involved with campaign. So stop the hyperbole

    Which is based off of the actions of others. You can do what you want but you will be deciding whether or not an entire group of people should be equal based on the actions of others.

    A lot of feminist groups are insane but I would still vote in favour of women's rights.


  • #1083
    Muise...
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,512 ✭✭✭Muise...


    Jester252 wrote: »
    I never blamed anyone for my personal opinion. How I'm not engaging my mind? I developing a personal opinion based on personal interactions.
    You just want people to blindly follow you and not engage their mind. All I did was express an open and undecided view point. Which you seem to have an issue with.

    Nope, I have an issue with you telling me I have to win you over. When it's the proposed amendment you should be looking at, you know - the one on the ballot paper, not "personal interactions". This isn't X-Factor.


  • #1084
    Jester252
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,533 ✭✭✭Jester252


    _Redzer_ wrote: »
    But you're not doing that if you can change your mind based on a campaigners attitude being pushy.

    You listen to the points they make and if they resonate with you or not. That's what matters. You don't seem to think there the most important thing by the sounds of things.

    But I am listening to the point they make and if they resonant with me. How else can I make a personal opinion?

    A clear point was made in this thread, an open viewpoint is met with hostility from the yes side.


  • #1085
    J_E
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,734 ✭✭✭J_E


    Jester252 wrote: »
    You just want people to blindly follow you and not engage their mind.
    You're not really showing evidence of engaging yours....that's why people are a little bothered here.

    This is a topic that is very close to a lot of people posting here, of course people will defend themselves.


  • #1086
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    _Redzer_ wrote: »
    You're basically saying stop being depressed about something you can't have, get over it and settle for these other half assed alternatives.

    It reeks of arrogance and ignorance, and that's purely because it's easy for you to say that when you've all the rights and you never had to bother your ass fighting for them.

    As long as I'm a second class citizen for no justifiable reason I'll never shut up about my absent rights. Nor should I.

    If we all were to submit and settle instead of fighting and standing up for yourselves, homosexuality would still be illegal here.
    There's nothing wrong with campaigning for what you want but if you're going to put your happiness on hold until gay marriage is introduced you could spend a large part of your life unhappy.

    My advice to that girl would be just don't worry about it. Get a civil partnership with her partner for now and when the law does eventually change (if it ever does in her lifetime) get a marriage then.

    I'm just saying don't pin your happiness on a referendum that may not pass. That's a clear road to unhappiness.


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  • #1087
    P_1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,681 ✭✭✭✭P_1


    Jester252 wrote: »
    But I am listening to the point they make and if they resonant with me. How else can I make a personal opinion?

    A clear point was made in this thread, an open viewpoint is met with hostility from the yes side.

    I think the question is when you're presented with an argument, do you put more of a emphasis on the content of the argument or in the manner of it's delivery?

    If it's the latter then I have to say that you're doing it wrong.


  • #1088
    Links234
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,944 ✭✭✭✭Links234


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    Let them eat cake

    Translation by Linksoogle

    Gotcha ;)


  • #1089
    Jester252
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,533 ✭✭✭Jester252


    Muise... wrote: »
    Nope, I have an issue with you telling me I have to win you over. When it's the proposed amendment you should be looking at, you know - the one on the ballot paper, not "personal interactions". This isn't X-Factor.

    Why have a campaign if you don't want to win over votes? I never said that I didn't look at the amendment but when I have an open mind I also place weight on how each side treats people with a different view point. I don't support people who look down on others.


  • #1090
    Jester252
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,533 ✭✭✭Jester252


    Cydoniac wrote: »
    You're not really showing evidence of engaging yours....that's why people are a little bothered here.

    This is a topic that is very close to a lot of people posting here, of course people will defend themselves.

    I never attack anybody. All I said was waiting on the sidelines and that was met with insults and snide remarks.
    Is that anyway to engage with swing voters?


  • #1091
    J_E
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,734 ✭✭✭J_E


    Jester252 wrote: »
    All I said was waiting on the sidelines and that was met with insults and snide remarks.
    Is that anyway to engage with swing voters?
    No you didn't. You said a 'pushy campaigner' would be enough for you to vote no, suggesting that you would put your own analysis aside because a more zealous person bothered you. You are also sounding quite patronising, nobody here needs to feed you information, there's already a ton of it out there. Obviously this referendum concerns you to some degree if you have been reading and posting here so there's no excuse not to do what we all have done, and read up on the subject and weigh opinions without needing 'personal interactions' (still not sure what you mean here)
    Not really on the fence per se. I am not a fan of pushy people. I have changed my vote because of a pushy campaigner


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  • #1092
    Jester252
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,533 ✭✭✭Jester252


    Cydoniac wrote: »
    No you didn't. You said a 'pushy campaigner' would be enough for you to vote no, suggesting that you would put your own analysis aside because a more zealous person bothered you. You are also sounding quite patronising, nobody here needs to feed you information, there's already a ton of it out there. Obviously this referendum concerns you to some degree if you have been reading and posting here so there's no excuse not to do what we all have done, and read up on the subject and weigh opinions without needing 'personal interactions' (still not sure what you mean here)

    You have missed quoted me while have the actually quote in your post. I never said anything about voting no. All I gave was an example of how I develop my opinion when I go to vote. Do you want me to vote yes?


  • #1093
    Zubeneschamali
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,644 ✭✭✭✭Zubeneschamali


    Jester252 wrote: »
    Do you want me to vote yes?

    Vote whatever way you think is right.


  • #1094
    J_E
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,734 ✭✭✭J_E


    Jester252 wrote: »
    Do you want me to vote yes?
    You already know the answer to that question, but it would be good you to vote with conviction either way.


  • #1095
    marienbad
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,463 ✭✭✭marienbad


    Jester252 wrote: »
    You have missed quoted me while have the actually quote in your post. I never said anything about voting no. All I gave was an example of how I develop my opinion when I go to vote. Do you want me to vote yes?

    Just vote as you think best based on the ideas on offer and not how they are presented to you.


  • #1096
    Nemeses
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,829 ✭✭✭Nemeses


    Links234 wrote: »
    What, I shouldn't be allowed marry one way or the other? :confused:

    Did you read the rest of my posts or the actual point I made or are you fixated on that?


  • #1097
    Jester252
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,533 ✭✭✭Jester252


    marienbad wrote: »
    Just vote as you think best based on the ideas on offer and not how they are presented to you.

    How can I think an idea is a good idea if it is been presented to me with a side order of insults and snide remarks?


  • #1098
    Links234
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,944 ✭✭✭✭Links234


    Nemeses wrote: »
    Did you read the rest of my posts or the actual point I made or are you fixated on that?

    I've read them, can you answer my question?


  • #1099
    Annasopra
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,232 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Jester252 wrote: »
    Not really on the fence per se. I am not a fan of pushy people. I have changed my vote because of a pushy campaigner.

    Huh? If you havent decided how are you not on the fence?

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • #1100
    shruikan2553
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,113 ✭✭✭shruikan2553


    Jester252 wrote: »
    How can I think an idea is a good idea if it is been presented to me with a side order of insults and snide remarks?

    Because you can decide if you would want your friends and children to be happy and have the same opportunities as you did on your own.


  • #1101
    Delirium
    Moderators Posts: 52,127 ✭✭✭✭Delirium


    Jester252 wrote: »
    How can I think an idea is a good idea if it is been presented to me with a side order of insults and snide remarks?

    you examine the idea on its merits rather than your dislike of the messenger/delivery.

    If you can read this, you're too close!



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  • #1102
    Kiwi in IE
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,063 ✭✭✭Kiwi in IE


    Jester252 wrote: »
    No to sure how/will I vote depends on the campaigns and hpw they interact with me.

    How they interact with you?????????

    If we were to go back in time and were voting instead on whether or not to legalise inter racial marriage, would an interaction with a campaigner whose personality you did not like be enough to influence you to vote no?

    I'm sorry but that is a ridiculous basis for voting on any issue! Do you really vote on serious issues depending on whether or not you personally like the people you encounter campaigning for one side or the other?


  • #1103
    Nemeses
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,829 ✭✭✭Nemeses


    Links234 wrote: »
    I've read them, can you answer my question?

    I already did.


    I believe people should have a choice.


  • #1104
    Annasopra
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,232 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Nemeses wrote: »
    I already did.


    I believe people should have a choice.

    What does that mean? You think trans people should under law be able to marry?

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • #1105
    _Redzer_
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,056 ✭✭✭_Redzer_


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    There's nothing wrong with campaigning for what you want but if you're going to put your happiness on hold until gay marriage is introduced you could spend a large part of your life unhappy.

    My advice to that girl would be just don't worry about it. Get a civil partnership with her partner for now and when the law does eventually change (if it ever does in her lifetime) get a marriage then.

    I'm just saying don't pin your happiness on a referendum that may not pass. That's a clear road to unhappiness.

    You're assuming it won't pass then. I prefer to be optimistic and fight for it tbh. I'm not a passive person by nature, so that route suits me grand.


  • #1106
    Nemeses
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,829 ✭✭✭Nemeses


    Joeytheparrot wrote: »
    What does that mean? You think trans people should under law be able to marry?


    Where are you quoting me that from?


    If a person wants to marry. Then let them. Regardless who / what / it they are.

    Its their choice really.


  • #1107
    Annasopra
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,232 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Nemeses wrote: »
    Where are you quoting me that from?


    If a person wants to marry. Then let them. Regardless who / what / it they are.

    Its their choice really.

    I'm asking - do you think that the law should allow trans people to marry? I'm asking for a direct answer. Yes or No.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • #1108
    Nemeses
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,829 ✭✭✭Nemeses


    Joeytheparrot wrote: »
    I'm asking - do you think that the law should allow trans people to marry?

    To be honest, I don't think there should be a law.

    It should just be there.

    However, If a law is needed. Then so be it. Make it happen


  • #1109
    Woodville56
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,643 ✭✭✭Woodville56


    Zed Bank wrote: »
    You're going around in circles here. It's been established that denying rights to a minority group is discrimination I.e homophobia
    Cydoniac wrote: »
    You're not really showing evidence of engaging yours....that's why people are a little bothered here.

    This is a topic that is very close to a lot of people posting here, of course people will defend themselves.

    Defend themselves by attacking and vilifying the views of anyone who doesn't sign up to the Same Sex Marriage yes vote ?? I haven't posted here today after being labelled all sorts yesterday for having and expressing a view that objected to labels of homophobe, idiot, looney and numerous other four letter vulgarities being applied to anyone who didn't support the SSM vote.
    Colm O"Gorman of Amnesty International Ireland and also a gay marriage lobbyist wrote in last weekend's Sunday Business Post as follows:

    "There are also people who have concerns that must be heard and answered. Changing our constitution, especially in an area such as marriage and family, is something Irish people take seriously. Those of us who propose change must continue to make the case for it. We must do this with care, and recognise that not everyone who is yet to be convinced is motivated by bigotry. We must listen to their concerns and respond with openness and clarity. If we do, I believe we will succeed"

    Yes, there have been good and constructive reasons for a yes vote put forward by pro SSM posters here, but sadly there has also been a lot of nasty put downs of anyone who is undecided or voting no for whatever reason. Shouting "homophobe" at anyone who isn't supportive of the cause won't improve the chances of a successful outcome for the SSM referendum.


  • #1110
    fran17
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,262 ✭✭✭fran17


    Joeytheparrot wrote: »
    I'm asking - do you think that the law should allow trans people to marry? I'm asking for a direct answer. Yes or No.

    sometimes you just cannot get a direct answer from people.i find it very frustrating also


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  • #1111
    Annasopra
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,232 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Nemeses wrote: »
    To be honest, I don't think there should be a law.

    It should just be there.

    However, If a law is needed. Then so be it. Make it happen
    Is that "yes"?

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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