SSM Referendum Spring 2015

Muise... · 03-07-2014 08:08PM

Nemeses wrote: »

Biology is the problem.

You're now taking DNA which is either Male or Female. What is a transgender. A male that transforms to a female is still a Male by biology. (If that makes sense)

That doesn't sit right with me. Just like plastic surgery doesn't sit right with me unless its to help rebuild something that been destroyed ie a car accident etc

After all, thats my opinion really. Yup, Still doesn't affect me in the slightest.

I personally believe marriage is a load of BS anyway. I mean if you love someone then so be it. I don't need to pay a priest or administration office to tell me so.

Marriage has nothing to do with biology though. Neither does gender, which is a social construct based on sex, which is biological, but is also a spectrum rather than a binary system, so in some people it is expressed by their bodies in a way they feel is not right. Marriage won't change any of this, it'll just make the people who want to marry a bit happier in themselves, whoever they are.

_Redzer_ · 03-07-2014 08:09PM

Nemeses wrote: »

Biology is the problem.

You're now taking DNA which is either Male or Female. What is a transgender. A male that transforms to a female is still a Male by biology. (If that makes sense)

That doesn't sit right with me. Just like plastic surgery doesn't sit right with me unless its to help rebuild something that been destroyed ie a car accident etc

After all, thats my opinion really. Yup, Still doesn't affect me in the slightest.

I personally believe marriage is a load of BS anyway. I mean if you love someone then so be it. I don't need to pay a priest or administration office to tell me so.

In which case don't stand in the way of those who do wish to marry. If nobody is getting hurt and they're happy, what's wrong with it if it's someone who's gay, straight or transgender, or whatever?

eviltwin · 03-07-2014 08:11PM

Nemeses wrote: »

Biology is the problem.

You're now taking DNA which is either Male or Female. What is a transgender. A male that transforms to a female is still a Male by biology. (If that makes sense)

That doesn't sit right with me. Just like plastic surgery doesn't sit right with me unless its to help rebuild something that been destroyed ie a car accident etc

After all, thats my opinion really. Yup, Still doesn't affect me in the slightest.

I personally believe marriage is a load of BS anyway. I mean if you love someone then so be it. I don't need to pay a priest or administration office to tell me so.

You may not believe in marriage but it matters a hell of a lot to others

Nemeses · 03-07-2014 08:13PM

eviltwin wrote: »

For a transgender person changing sex is as important to their mental health as the plastic surgery is to someone with a serious disfigurement. It's not something cosmetic. Why deny them a right to marry due to what is essentially a birth defect.

People are people I guess.

We'll as long as person A defines themselves as X Gender not male or female to the other person. It shows honesty - so be it let them marry away.

If person A is transgender and identifies themselves as Male or Female depending on the OP and doesn't advise person B, then yeah that's an issue, its dishonestly and hiding from the truth. I suppose that would be the issue I have really.

Yet again, my main point of view is Marriage is so and so, Its the "Done thing to do"

I don't believe its a "Right" but more of a choice. If you wanna marry, sure go right ahead. I don't really care what / who you are.

More importantly, It doesn't affect me at all. I don't care what other people do in their lives.
Everyone should have a choice, regardless of their status.

J_E · 03-07-2014 08:18PM

Nemeses wrote: »

I personally believe marriage is a load of BS anyway. I mean if you love someone then so be it. I don't need to pay a priest or administration office to tell me so.

Marriage as a construct is a lot more than that, and I think you know it.

Jester252 · 03-07-2014 08:18PM

eviltwin wrote: »

Interested to hear why you're on the fence. Are there any specific concerns you have?

Not really on the fence per se. I am not a fan of pushy people. I have changed my vote because of a pushy campaigner.

J_E · 03-07-2014 08:19PM

Jester252 wrote: »

Not really on the fence per se. I am not a fan of pushy people. I have changed my vote because of a pushy campaigner.

Well to be honest, that's a pretty ****ty thing to do just because you didn't like a particular person.

Nemeses · 03-07-2014 08:20PM

Cydoniac wrote: »

Marriage as a construct is a lot more than that, and I think you know it.

Is it? Or is that you are lead to believe?

Either way, You're missing my point.

I am for choice. It is up to the persons own decision whether or not they wish to marry.

I will be voting Yes because I believe people should have options and choice.

_Redzer_ · 03-07-2014 08:21PM

Jester252 wrote: »

Not really on the fence per se. I am not a fan of pushy people. I have changed my vote because of a pushy campaigner.

So basically you'll let some else make your mind up for you and sell you the idea instead of thinking things out yourself, looking back and assessing the situation, then formulating how you'll vote?

Seems a bit ridiculous your whole voting plan can be swayed by someone "being pushy".

Jester252 · 03-07-2014 08:24PM

Cydoniac wrote: »

Well to be honest, that's a pretty ****ty thing to do just because you didn't like a particular person.

So? It's my right to vote how I see fit and it's your attitude that might not make me vote or vote no.

Muise... · 03-07-2014 08:26PM

Jester252 wrote: »

So? It's my right to vote how I see fit and it's your attitude that might not make me vote or vote no.

The franchise was not won for such passive-aggressive cnutery as this.

Jester252 · 03-07-2014 08:26PM

_Redzer_ wrote: »

So basically you'll let some else make your mind up for you and sell you the idea instead of thinking things out yourself, looking back and assessing the situation, then formulating how you'll vote?

Seems a bit ridiculous your whole voting plan can be swayed by someone "being pushy".

You seem not to know what a campaign does. They sell the idea to the public.

I'm making up my own mind based on their sell.

Nemeses · 03-07-2014 08:27PM

Muise... wrote: »

The franchise was not won for such passive-aggressive cnutery as this.

Ah jesus lay off.

The guy has a right to vote to do as s/he deems fit from their own opinion.

Who are you to tell people how to vote?

marienbad · 03-07-2014 08:28PM

Jester252 wrote: »

So? It's my right to vote how I see fit and it's your attitude that might not make me vote or vote no.

why not just think for yourself ?

D.Q · 03-07-2014 08:28PM

In the 7 years I've been able to vote I have never had any inclination to. I will definitely be voting in this though. Not directly affected, or even really indirectly. I just feel it is absolutely outrageous in this day and age that people aren't treated as equals because of their sexual preference.

J_E · 03-07-2014 08:30PM

Nemeses wrote: »

Is it? Or is that you are lead to believe?

Either way, You're missing my point.

I am for choice. It is up to the persons own decision whether or not they wish to marry.

I will be voting Yes because I believe people should have options and choice.

Legally, yes, there are many differences. It can't be their decision if it isn't available to them.

Jester252 wrote: »

So? It's my right to vote how I see fit and it's your attitude that might not make me vote or vote no.

I'm making up my own mind based on their sell.

Incredulous. Passively blackmailing me so you might decide to vote yes? I'd take a step back if I were you and think about how this is coming across. I'm not selling you a car here, mate.

Jester252 · 03-07-2014 08:30PM

Muise... wrote: »

The franchise was not won for such passive-aggressive cnutery as this.

You're doing nothing but hurting yourself and your campaign. You don't have to agree with my voting pratice but instead of attacking me maybe you should engage in a positive dialogue.
You know the old saying "you catch more fly with honey than vinger"

_Redzer_ · 03-07-2014 08:33PM

Jester252 wrote: »

You seem not to know what a campaign does. They sell the idea to the public.

I'm making up my own mind based on their sell.

Maybe I'm different in that I like to find out things for myself and then make a decision instead of blindly following what other people say.

The fact that your whole viewpoint can shift due to someone being pushy shows you're not inclined to think for yourself or take the issue seriously.

Galwayguy35 · 03-07-2014 08:35PM

Yeah I'll vote yes, everyone should have the right to marry.

shruikan2553 · 03-07-2014 08:35PM

Jester252 wrote: »

You're doing nothing but hurting yourself and your campaign. You don't have to agree with my voting pratice but instead of attacking me maybe you should engage in a positive dialogue.
You know the old saying "you catch more fly with honey than vinger"

In fairness you are allowing how some people act to decide whether or not other people are to be treated as equals. Is it fair for me to hate everyone from China because of the French?

Links234 · 03-07-2014 08:36PM

Nemeses wrote: »

Transgender marriage - Something doesn't settle right there.

What, I shouldn't be allowed marry one way or the other?

Jester252 · 03-07-2014 08:39PM

_Redzer_ wrote: »

Maybe I'm different in that I like to find out things for myself and then make a decision instead of blindly following what other people say.

The fact that your whole viewpoint can shift due to someone being pushy shows you're not inclined to think for yourself or take the issue seriously.

But changing my opinion based on my personal interaction with the political campaign is me thinking for myself. I can't base a personal opinion without engaging and developing with the issue.

Links234 · 03-07-2014 08:41PM

Jester252 wrote: »

You know the old saying "you catch more fly with honey than vinger"

Are you suggesting we bribe you with honey for your vote? Who are you, Winnie the Pooh? How many pots of honey will it take? :pac:

Muise... · 03-07-2014 08:41PM

Jester252 wrote: »

You're doing nothing but hurting yourself and your campaign. You don't have to agree with my voting pratice but instead of attacking me maybe you should engage in a positive dialogue.
You know the old saying "you catch more fly with honey than vinger"

Why should I engage in "a positive dialogue" with you when you blame other people for your own voting decisions? What could that "positive dialogue" be when you refuse to engage your own mind? Waste of breath there...

P_1 · 03-07-2014 08:42PM

Jester252 wrote: »

Not really on the fence per se. I am not a fan of pushy people. I have changed my vote because of a pushy campaigner.

Ok there's a difference between changing your vote for an election because of a pushy campaigner and changing your vote for a referendum based on the same.

In an election you're voting for an individual so having a pushy campaigner on their staff can reflect them badly as a candidate but in a referendum you're voting for an idea so you really shouldn't base your decision based on your experience of the one campaigner.

_Redzer_ · 03-07-2014 08:46PM

Jester252 wrote: »

But changing my opinion based on my personal interaction with the political campaign is me thinking for myself. I can't base a personal opinion without engaging and developing with the issue.

But you're not doing that if you can change your mind based on a campaigners attitude being pushy.

You listen to the points they make and if they resonate with you or not. That's what matters. You don't seem to think there the most important thing by the sounds of things.

Jester252 · 03-07-2014 08:46PM

shruikan2553 wrote: »

In fairness you are allowing how some people act to decide whether or not other people are to be treated as equals. Is it fair for me to hate everyone from China because of the French?

I'm not allowing them to decide how I vote. I'm developing a personal opinion based on a personal interation.

You can do what you what its a free country. However I don't hate anybody and the LGBT community will be involved with campaign. So stop the hyperbole

J_E · 03-07-2014 08:49PM

Jester252 wrote: »

I'm not allowing them to decide how I vote. I'm developing a personal opinion based on a personal interation.

Why not make it a lot simpler and just ask yourself how you feel about two people of the same sex being married, the potential implications, your own moral opinions on such? Why do you need to have 'interactions' to be able to make such deductions? This is hardly the Lisbon Treaty we're talking about here, it's something many people can relate to immediately in different ways. Can't understand this attitude but will leave you to it.

"Hmm, I didn't really like that one of them was a little too vocal about how they feel, that'll be a No so"

Links234 · 03-07-2014 08:49PM

Getting honey for bribes

Jester252 · 03-07-2014 08:53PM

Muise... wrote: »

Why should I engage in "a positive dialogue" with you when you blame other people for your own voting decisions? What could that "positive dialogue" be when you refuse to engage your own mind? Waste of breath there...

I never blamed anyone for my personal opinion. How I'm not engaging my mind? I developing a personal opinion based on personal interactions.
You just want people to blindly follow you and not engage their mind. All I did was express an open and undecided view point. Which you seem to have an issue with.

SSM Referendum Spring 2015

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