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Kerry GAA Discussion Thread Mod Warning Post #4167

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,265 ✭✭✭ciarriaithuaidh


    D'Agger wrote: »
    Was thinking it would be a break alright. He's been involved with a county team every year for the past ten so he's due a rest.

    He's one of the best footballers I've had the pleasure of lining out with and tbqh I think he's getting a shít time of it from the Kerry mgmt. - the guy is probably Kerrys best full forward, yet there he was last year up in Mayo laboring after Keith Higgins on the wing. He's big, strong can kick points of both feet with ease and is a free taking option - I really don't see how he has never been given a shot at 14 for the league

    To be quite honest D'Ag, he is a bit off what is required at the highest level. He has got chances with Kerry and just hasn't performed. It's no slight on the man, he has played minor, u-21, junior with Kerry and done well at all those levels and he's a good operator at club level.
    I'll say one thing, he's as good as some of the lads currently on Senior panel right now, but thats neither here nor there.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,385 ✭✭✭✭D'Agger


    To be quite honest D'Ag, he is a bit off what is required at the highest level. He has got chances with Kerry and just hasn't performed. It's no slight on the man, he has played minor, u-21, junior with Kerry and done well at all those levels and he's a good operator at club level.
    I'll say one thing, he's as good as some of the lads currently on Senior panel right now, but thats neither here nor there.
    He has gotten chances yes - but my grievance is that he hasn't been given one in a position where he plays his best football

    If he was given a run at 14 in the league next year and wasn't cutting it, then fair enough but anytime he's been given a run it's been on the wing which is not where you get the best out of a player with his talents


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,265 ✭✭✭ciarriaithuaidh


    D'Agger wrote: »
    He has gotten chances yes - but my grievance is that he hasn't been given one in a position where he plays his best football

    If he was given a run at 14 in the league next year and wasn't cutting it, then fair enough but anytime he's been given a run it's been on the wing which is not where you get the best out of a player with his talents

    He doesn't have the pace/evasion for the inside line at county level Dag...he has even struggled at Kerry junior level or county c/ship level a few times when faced with a very pacey opponent. There are fine margins at this level, but saying "he's the best 14 available" I totally disagree with. Geaney, O'Brien, O'Donoghue and even Declan Sull still, are all sharper, more evasive players than Stam. I'm not trying to be critical of him, but you brought it up so...

    Anyway, weekend fast approaching. Not sure is team named tomorrow or tonight or what. More interested to see Cork team to be honest, but obviously our midfield and forward line will be of interest also.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,781 ✭✭✭✭keane2097


    Team named this evening after an apparently open training session CT.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,385 ✭✭✭✭D'Agger


    He doesn't have the pace/evasion for the inside line at county level Dag...he has even struggled at Kerry junior level or county c/ship level a few times when faced with a very pacey opponent. There are fine margins at this level, but saying "he's the best 14 available" I totally disagree with. Geaney, O'Brien, O'Donoghue and even Declan Sull still, are all sharper, more evasive players than Stam. I'm not trying to be critical of him, but you brought it up so...

    Anyway, weekend fast approaching. Not sure is team named tomorrow or tonight or what. More interested to see Cork team to be honest, but obviously our midfield and forward line will be of interest also.
    True - JOD & Declan definitely....Geaney....maybe, the man gets goals to his credit but still haven't seen enough of him to judge. I prefer O'Brien on the wing tbh, pace coming through. Other than the first two lads who are exceptional players, I don't think Kerry has too many full forwards better on offer. Would love to see him at 14 with JOD & Cooper either side.

    Alas, will most likely never happen...if it does I'll dig up this post :pac:

    Be interesting to see what Cork start with alright, first time in a long while I think Cork will win with a few points to spare - I just think their forwards will have too much for us


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,781 ✭✭✭✭keane2097


    Geaney looks like he's going be be top notch to me.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,265 ✭✭✭ciarriaithuaidh


    D'Agger wrote: »
    True - JOD & Declan definitely....Geaney....maybe, the man gets goals to his credit but still haven't seen enough of him to judge. I prefer O'Brien on the wing tbh, pace coming through. Other than the first two lads who are exceptional players, I don't think Kerry has too many full forwards better on offer. Would love to see him at 14 with JOD & Cooper either side.

    Alas, will most likely never happen...if it does I'll dig up this post :pac:


    Be interesting to see what Cork start with alright, first time in a long while I think Cork will win with a few points to spare - I just think their forwards will have too much for us

    Feel free!

    Cork won fairly comfortably in 2012 don't forget..to be honest I can see it being a lot closer this time...but lets wait and see. The theory that "Cork's forwards will have too much" won't hold much water if their midfield isn't winning primary ball..besides, I'd be hopeful that Kerry's forwards will be applying some pressure down the other end themselves!

    Geaney, for a man not long over serious injury, is already showing great signs. Lets not build him up too much yet though.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,265 ✭✭✭ciarriaithuaidh


    Team named:
    1. Brian Kelly Killarney Legion
    2. Marc Ó Sé An Ghaeltacht
    3. Aidan O’Mahony Rathmore
    4. Shane Enright Tarbert
    5. Paul Murphy Rathmore
    6. Killian Young Renard
    7. Fionn Fitzgerald (Capt) Dr Crokes
    8. Anthony Maher Duagh
    9. Johnny Buckley Dr Crokes
    10. Stephen O’Brien Kenmare
    11. Bryan Sheehan St Marys
    12. Donnchadh Walsh Cromane
    13. Paul Geaney Dingle
    14. Declan O’Sullivan Dromid Pearses
    15. James O’Donoghue Killarney Legion
    Fir Ionaid
    16. Brendan Kealy Kilcummin
    17. Peter Crowley Laune Rangers
    18. Darran O’Sullivan Glenbeigh-Glencar
    19. David Moran Kerins O’Rahillys
    20. Michael Geaney Dingle
    21. Mark Griffin St Michaels/Foilmore
    22. Kieran Donaghy Austin Stacks
    23. Kieran O’Leary Dr Crokes
    24. Barry John Keane Kerins O’Rahillys
    25. Jonathan Lyne Killarney Legion
    26. Daithí Casey Dr Crokes

    Crowley dropped. Didn't see that coming. Can't believe Buckley AND O'Donoghue are starting..big gamble. Donnacha Walsh not 100% either I'd say.
    Not sure really, won't know whether the risks will pay off until game is underway. At least with Darran, Crowley, BJK, Moran there's a bit of impact from the bench you'd hope.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,346 ✭✭✭✭homerjay2005


    very happy with that team to be honest, if everybody is fit (which is a big if at the moment), we have strong options off the bench.

    that team if they can go on a run now and keep injurys down will rattle a semi final IMO, if they all hit top form.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,781 ✭✭✭✭keane2097


    Afraid of getting a hiding I'd say, no way those lads are ready to play.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,115 ✭✭✭Boom__Boom


    Crowley dropped. Didn't see that coming. Can't believe Buckley AND O'Donoghue are starting..big gamble. Donnacha Walsh not 100% either I'd say.
    Not sure really, won't know whether the risks will pay off until game is underway. At least with Darran, Crowley, BJK, Moran there's a bit of impact from the bench you'd hope.

    I think Crowley is fierce unlucky and I think Marc is very lucky to retain his place - Aidan was always likely to come in after his impact the last day.

    Agree about Buckley and O'Donoghue. - Serious gamble, especially when you look at the likely level of opposition we would face in the qualifiers. Why risk them?

    We gambled with Moran and Darran's fitness last week and both had to come off before half-time and aren't fit enough to start this week.

    This time around we're gambling with O'Donoghue, Buckley and Donnacha. How many of these lads will manage a full game?

    There's no way O'Brien is going to line out in the half-forward line - Cork will know well he will be nearer goals with Declan dropping deep.

    Selection of the team has probably been largely picked on the back of fitness concerns (who can we risk?) as opposed to form which is a worry.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,115 ✭✭✭Boom__Boom


    very happy with that team to be honest, if everybody is fit (which is a big if at the moment), we have strong options off the bench.

    that team if they can go on a run now and keep injurys down will rattle a semi final IMO, if they all hit top form.

    It's blatantly obvious that a lot of the players are a long way from 100% fitness.

    I really don't agree that we have strong options off the bench - I really can't imagine a situation where the subs coming on on Sunday are likely to be able to win us the game given their fitness and form.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,265 ✭✭✭ciarriaithuaidh


    Boom__Boom wrote: »
    I think Crowley is fierce unlucky and I think Marc is very lucky to retain his place - Aidan was always likely to come in after his impact the last day.

    Agree about Buckley and O'Donoghue. - Serious gamble, especially when you look at the likely level of opposition we would face in the qualifiers. Why risk them?

    We gambled with Moran and Darran's fitness last week and both had to come off before half-time and aren't fit enough to start this week.

    This time around we're gambling with O'Donoghue, Buckley and Donnacha. How many of these lads will manage a full game?

    There's no way O'Brien is going to line out in the half-forward line - Cork will know well he will be nearer goals with Declan dropping deep.

    Selection of the team has probably been largely picked on the back of fitness concerns (who can we risk?) as opposed to form which is a worry.

    Marc was on Clare's best forward last day out, was never going to be dropped but needs to improve alright.
    Maybe Crowley was slipping in training or something..I still maintain he's a better centre back than Young and hopefully we'll see that at some stage.
    I just hope O'Donoghue is able for it to be honest, we don't need him getting some serious injury which is why I thought he wouldn't be risked.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,115 ✭✭✭Boom__Boom


    Marc was on Clare's best forward last day out, was never going to be dropped but needs to improve alright.
    Maybe Crowley was slipping in training or something..I still maintain he's a better centre back than Young and hopefully we'll see that at some stage.
    I just hope O'Donoghue is able for it to be honest, we don't need him getting some serious injury which is why I thought he wouldn't be risked.

    Re Marc - it's not just the Clare game - he had a poor league.

    Marc is a long way off the player he was when he was playing with Eamonn - my worry is can Eamonn see this?


  • Registered Users Posts: 126 ✭✭Kerryfootball


    Marc is the most gifted back we have so please enough of this lucky to be playing rubbish.

    Buckley starting is wrong in my opinion I'd have Sheehan in there instead.

    You can see that the other top teams are making significant changes in the last quarter we need lads to be able to come into the game and close it out.
    Maybe this is the thinking around Crowley?

    Finally delighted with the change in goal.


  • Registered Users Posts: 126 ✭✭Kerryfootball


    Marc is the most gifted back we have so please enough of this lucky to be playing rubbish.

    Buckley starting is wrong in my opinion I'd have Sheehan in there instead.

    You can see that the other top teams are making significant changes in the last quarter we need lads to be able to come into the game and close it out.
    Maybe this is the thinking around Crowley?

    Finally delighted with the change in goal.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,781 ✭✭✭✭keane2097


    Marc is definitely on the chopping block, very poor so far this year.


  • Registered Users Posts: 126 ✭✭Kerryfootball


    Marc will step up when it really matters.

    You'd swear we where blessed with experienced backs.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,115 ✭✭✭Boom__Boom


    Marc is the most gifted back we have so please enough of this lucky to be playing rubbish.

    He's 35 next birthday and his form this year has been very poor.

    No-one has a divine right to a Kerry jersey and Marc has done very little this year in terms of making a case for a Kerry jersey when playing for Kerry.

    He's given a hell of a lot to the Kerry jersey over the years, but that doesn't automatically give him a divine right to keep the jersey.

    Can't help wondering if he is getting somewhat of a pass because of his surname?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,265 ✭✭✭ciarriaithuaidh


    Lads, I wait until I see the reaction to seeing a Cork jersey in front of an O'Sé before writing him off, poor league or no!


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,781 ✭✭✭✭keane2097


    Lads, I wait until I see the reaction to seeing a Cork jersey in front of an O'Sé before writing him off, poor league or no!

    Not writing him off in the slightest just saying he needs to improve vastly on his form of the last three months. Presumably he will.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,265 ✭✭✭ciarriaithuaidh


    keane2097 wrote: »
    Not writing him off in the slightest just saying he needs to improve vastly on his form of the last three months. Presumably he will.

    ..and he's not the only one who needs to improve. Maher is in the same boat, for one.


  • Registered Users Posts: 126 ✭✭Kerryfootball


    Well then your questioning Eamons impartiality and judgment as he is watching training and making the calls, He obviously believes Marc is the best option.

    Regarding god given rights or trading on names the latter is unfair nobody has given more to the Kerry cause than the O Se's and it's only when Marc retires will Kerry fans realise how lucky we were to have them.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,115 ✭✭✭Boom__Boom


    Lads, I wait until I see the reaction to seeing a Cork jersey in front of an O'Sé before writing him off, poor league or no!

    I take it you weren't at the league game in Tralee so..

    It's a fact of life that players age - there's no shame in it - the spirit might be willing but the flesh is weak and every game I saw Marc play this year would lead me to think his race is run.

    I really hope that Marc doesn't get cleaned on Sunday in my heart, but my head greatly fears it.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,781 ✭✭✭✭keane2097


    ..and he's not the only one who needs to improve. Maher is in the same boat, for one.

    Massively so.


  • Registered Users Posts: 126 ✭✭Kerryfootball


    I'd agree regarding Maher, for the life of me I cannot understand a player of his height constantly breaking down the ball.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,115 ✭✭✭Boom__Boom


    ..and he's not the only one who needs to improve. Maher is in the same boat, for one.

    A key difference is that Maher is what 7/8 years younger than Marc ? I think Marc's poor performances are related to his age and that it's not simply a case of being out of form. Maher is a case where is looks like a player out of form and I reckon there is a decent chance his form will come back at some stage.

    There's also the fact that with Maher there is a serious lack of other options - he had an unfit partner the last day, his partner the next day is unlikely to be fully fit. If we had realistic options Maher's place would be under a lot more pressure given his form but because we haven't Maher will have to do. Marc could have been benched relatively easily with Murphy staying in the corner and Crowley keeping his place with Aidan coming in.


  • Registered Users Posts: 126 ✭✭Kerryfootball


    I'd agree regarding Maher, for the life of me I cannot understand a player of his height constantly breaking down the ball.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,265 ✭✭✭ciarriaithuaidh


    Boom__Boom wrote: »
    I take it you weren't at the league game in Tralee so..

    It's a fact of life that players age - there's no shame in it - the spirit might be willing but the flesh is weak and every game I saw Marc play this year would lead me to think his race is run.

    I really hope that Marc doesn't get cleaned on Sunday in my heart, but my head greatly fears it.

    I was at the league game. League is league, championship is championship. Marc was not fully fit during the league and was put on a roaming half forward that day, Colm O'Driscoll, wasn't able for it and was taken off.

    He wasn't great the last day either, but you are writing his obituary a tad too soon. We'll see how he goes Sunday and then re-assess.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,265 ✭✭✭ciarriaithuaidh


    I'd agree regarding Maher, for the life of me I cannot understand a player of his height constantly breaking down the ball.

    ..it's a huge tactical ploy in the modern game, perhaps?


  • Registered Users Posts: 126 ✭✭Kerryfootball


    Well it's killing a skill that was one of the best parts of the game.
    Don't mind it occasionally but surely fielding a ball is better than breaking it, he's s big lad he could break a tackle once he wins the kickout.


  • Registered Users Posts: 126 ✭✭Kerryfootball


    Well it's killing a skill that was one of the best parts of the game.
    Don't mind it occasionally but surely fielding a ball is better than breaking it, he's s big lad he could break a tackle once he wins the kickout.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,115 ✭✭✭Boom__Boom


    I was at the league game. League is league, championship is championship. Marc was not fully fit during the league and was put on a roaming half forward that day, Colm O'Driscoll, wasn't able for it and was taken off.

    He wasn't great the last day either, but you are writing his obituary a tad too soon. We'll see how he goes Sunday and then re-assess.

    There's league games and league games. Playing Cork is playing Cork, league bedammed.

    I'll be very happy to be proved wrong come Sunday.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,115 ✭✭✭Boom__Boom


    Well it's killing a skill that was one of the best parts of the game.
    Don't mind it occasionally but surely fielding a ball is better than breaking it, he's s big lad he could break a tackle once he wins the kickout.

    The skill is used less and less at intercounty because all too often you will come down in a crowd of 2 or 3 opponents who didnt even jump to contest it and you will struggle to get a pass away without turning the ball over or being blown for a free.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,265 ✭✭✭ciarriaithuaidh


    Boom__Boom wrote: »
    There's league games and league games. Playing Cork is playing Cork, league bedammed.

    I'll be very happy to be proved wrong come Sunday.

    Like I said, it was the league. Kerry were fast asleep to Cork in the second half that day..Fitz left Griffin get isolated and roasted by Hurley which was obviously a tactical exercise to make a point. Not going to be repeated Sunday, I hope!

    League is becoming less and less relevant for the top teams. Dublin hardly trained during the league this year..and why would they when they just need to get to 75-80% for July 20th, then 100% in August? Plus they have massive residual fitness from last season and a lot of the squad were training for Sigerson in December, January and February.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,460 ✭✭✭wonga77


    Boom__Boom wrote: »
    The skill is used less and less at intercounty because all too often you will come down in a crowd of 2 or 3 opponents who didnt even jump to contest it and you will struggle to get a pass away without turning the ball over or being blown for a free.

    Ive played midfield with the club for 10 years now and when i look back its amazing how the games changed, Its tactically much better to punch it now because you can drive the ball 20 -30 yards back or forward, much easier than catching and coming down off balance and being surrounded by 3 men


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,496 ✭✭✭✭Fr Tod Umptious


    Boom__Boom wrote: »
    He's 35 next birthday and his form this year has been very poor.

    No-one has a divine right to a Kerry jersey and Marc has done very little this year in terms of making a case for a Kerry jersey when playing for Kerry.

    He's given a hell of a lot to the Kerry jersey over the years, but that doesn't automatically give him a divine right to keep the jersey.

    Can't help wondering if he is getting somewhat of a pass because of his surname?
    Well then your questioning Eamons impartiality and judgment as he is watching training and making the calls, He obviously believes Marc is the best option.

    Regarding god given rights or trading on names the latter is unfair nobody has given more to the Kerry cause than the O Se's and it's only when Marc retires will Kerry fans realise how lucky we were to have them.

    From the moment he was appointed I always wondered would Fitzmaurice’s judgement on the guys he won All Irelands with (the O’Se’s, AOM, Brosnan, Galvin etc) be clouded by the fact that they were teammates and very successful.

    The retirement of Tomas and Paul Gavlin actually did him some favours as it put an end to the silly ideas of playing Galvin at half back etc, it relived Fitzmaurice of a few selection headaches.
    In the 2013 league he played both O’Se’s in all but one game. I’m not sure if there was any need for that.

    Marc is having a poor season, and he will be 35 next birthday, it would be only right to suggest that he is starting based on what he has done in the more distant past , rather than what he has done in the more recent past.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,385 ✭✭✭✭D'Agger


    Harsh on Crowley who I'd love to see at 6 with Killian at 7

    James & Buckley back too soon it would appear and it's a big ask of them to come in and produce on a minster final after long layoffs

    I honestly see Cork winning by at least 5. I had concerns before the team was named but I don't think that team puts is in as strong a position tactically as it could. Time will tell I guess.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,115 ✭✭✭Boom__Boom


    League is becoming less and less relevant for the top teams. Dublin hardly trained during the league this year..and why would they when they just need to get to 75-80% for July 20th, then 100% in August? Plus they have massive residual fitness from last season and a lot of the squad were training for Sigerson in December, January and February.

    I find it very hard to agree with your assessment that the league is becoming less and less relevant for top teams. Since the re-organisation of the league in 2008 there has been a massive correlation between being amongst the top teams in the league and the top performers in the Championship. Ignoring the 2008 league because that was a bit of a sorting out year since 2009 three teams have been in Division 1 constantly - Dublin, Mayo & Kerry. Cork missed 1 year; Tyrone 2 and Donegal 3 (their small panel a real issue here) If you'd asked someone to name the top teams over the past 5 years how many would have named those 6 teams.

    People look at the Derry's loss against Longford this year and use it to say that the league doesn't matter but Derry lost 6 players from their previous Championship game (5 injuries 1 to the US) and had a 7th black-carded. Everything went right for Longford that day - 9 different scorers and they still only won by 2 points. This was very much a freak result.

    If you still don't think league form is important, look at the teams relegated from Division 1 and then try to remember how those teams did in that year's Championship. If you have a bad league in terms of being relegated from Division 1 you are odds on to have a miserable summer. Ignoring Kildare who still have a chance this year - of the 11 teams relegated from Division 1, only 2 got to the last 8 (and both of these lost that quarter-final game)

    2014 - Westmeath ; Kildare
    2013 - Donegal ; Down
    2012 - Laois ; Armagh
    2011 - Galway ; Monaghan
    2010 - Tyrone ; Derry
    2009 - Donegal ; Westmeath

    I've included a link to Wikipedia as these relegated teams have gone on to have forgettable horror show summers for the most part.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_All-Ireland_Senior_Football_Championship
    wonga77 wrote: »
    Ive played midfield with the club for 10 years now and when i look back its amazing how the games changed, Its tactically much better to punch it now because you can drive the ball 20 -30 yards back or forward, much easier than catching and coming down off balance and being surrounded by 3 men

    I'd imagine that at intercounty level with the step-up in fitness levels that it's even worse again than club level.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,265 ✭✭✭ciarriaithuaidh


    Boom__Boom wrote: »
    I find it very hard to agree with your assessment that the league is becoming less and less relevant for top teams. Since the re-organisation of the league in 2008 there has been a massive correlation between being amongst the top teams in the league and the top performers in the Championship. Ignoring the 2008 league because that was a bit of a sorting out year since 2009 three teams have been in Division 1 constantly - Dublin, Mayo & Kerry. Cork missed 1 year; Tyrone 2 and Donegal 3 (their small panel a real issue here) If you'd asked someone to name the top teams over the past 5 years how many would have named those 6 teams.

    People look at the Derry's loss against Longford this year and use it to say that the league doesn't matter but Derry lost 6 players from their previous Championship game (5 injuries 1 to the US) and had a 7th black-carded. Everything went right for Longford that day - 9 different scorers and they still only won by 2 points. This was very much a freak result.

    If you still don't think league form is important, look at the teams relegated from Division 1 and then try to remember how those teams did in that year's Championship. If you have a bad league in terms of being relegated from Division 1 you are odds on to have a miserable summer. Ignoring Kildare who still have a chance this year - of the 11 teams relegated from Division 1, only 2 got to the last 8 (and both of these lost that quarter-final game)

    2014 - Westmeath ; Kildare
    2013 - Donegal ; Down
    2012 - Laois ; Armagh
    2011 - Galway ; Monaghan
    2010 - Tyrone ; Derry
    2009 - Donegal ; Westmeath

    I've included a link to Wikipedia as these relegated teams have gone on to have forgettable horror show summers for the most part.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_All-Ireland_Senior_Football_Championship



    I'd imagine that at intercounty level with the step-up in fitness levels that it's even worse again than club level.

    Not getting off topic here, but a quick response.

    The league is on a different page to the championship..literally. I have seen and observed some top teams preparation for the year and like I said, the league is now, largely, a means to test out players/formations more than anything else and rarely are teams at more than 60% conditioning level either.

    Almost every top 10 county football team right now will be going through a serious strength and conditioning programme during the league AND will also have players who are playing Sigerson cup and won't re-enter the fold until March or so. In either case, the training plans for league and post-league are totally different.

    I've said it before, but I'd be advocating (and hoping) that at some point we get to the stage where the league is dismantled, but used as the basis for an open championship structure, 4 x 8 or 3 x 11 or whatever.

    Anyway, enough on that. Back to Cork v Kerry.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,781 ✭✭✭✭keane2097


    Just to point out that the correlation most people mention about the teams doing well in the league doing well in the Championship doesn't imply that the best teams prioritise the league, it just shows the teams that do best in the league ALSO do well in the Championship, which is very different.

    All the correlation shows is that the best teams are the best teams, them being the best because they take the league uber-seriously is an add-on not really evidenced by the correlation. If all the teams took the league un-seriously we would have expected the same Championship results over the last five years for example.

    Not saying it isn't the case (I suspect it isn't though), but the argument is a non-sequitur.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,265 ✭✭✭ciarriaithuaidh


    keane2097 wrote: »
    Just to point out that the correlation most people mention about the teams doing well in the league doing well in the Championship doesn't imply that the best teams prioritise the league, it just shows the teams that do best in the league ALSO do well in the Championship, which is very different.

    All the correlation shows is that the best teams are the best teams, them being the best because they take the league uber-seriously is an add-on not really evidenced by the correlation. If all the teams took the league un-seriously we would have expected the same Championship results over the last five years for example.

    Not saying it isn't the case (I suspect it isn't though), but the argument is a non-sequitur.

    Sorry, I don't speak Spanish...:p


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,781 ✭✭✭✭keane2097


    Sorry, I don't speak Spanish...:p

    The conclusion does not follow from the argument!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,346 ✭✭✭✭homerjay2005


    looks like its one down, 2 to go....

    Kerry GAA @Kerry_Official · 32s
    Junior Munster Football Final (2nd,56m) Kerry 3-14 Cork 0-12 #GAA Penalty by Gavan O Grady

    Minors have a very decent chance on Sunday, so would be great to go into the senior final with 2 wins.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,798 ✭✭✭Mr. Incognito


    The Munster final in Cork is not the place to bring in lads that were injured and off the pace. I think it's with one eye on getting them match fit for a run in the qualifiers.

    The panel is weak this year but we could get a kind run and the extra games would actually do us more good than harm as it gives the new players experience.

    I cant see anything but a comfortable Cork win.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,386 ✭✭✭✭DDC1990


    I've been thinking of how we are going to play on Sunday.

    We should go Man-to-Man in the backs.

    Marc on Goulding, AOM on Hurley, Enright on O'Driscoll
    Murphy on Kerrigan, Fionn on Paddy Kelly and Young on O'Rourke

    Midfield, We'll most likely have Sheehan and Buckley switching in and out of the half forward line and Maher hopefully holding the middle.

    Forwards, Donnacha Walsh should be doing his usual running role, and hopefully distributing ball as well as he did in the last few games last year.

    Declan should move out to CHF, and attack from deep.

    JO'D, Geaney and SOB should be the inside forward line and will run at Cork early looking for goals.

    Both sides match up well against each other, and if the rain holds off, we could have a cracking high scoring match on our hands.

    My massive worry would be midfield as none of our players around the middle are in form. I think we will have the forwards to win ball and score if we get 50/50 around the middle.

    Corks Full back line is very physical, but O'Donaghue, Geaney and O'Brien should have the speed to get away from them. Cadogan and Shields got a roasting from JOD and Darren last year early on in Killarney, same sort of speed and footpassing game could open them up again.

    8/1 for the draw is very nice all things considered, but if I had to pick a winner I'd say Kerry by 2.


  • Registered Users Posts: 388 ✭✭Gary Neville


    DDC1990 wrote: »
    I've been thinking of how we are going to play on Sunday.

    We should go Man-to-Man in the backs.

    Marc on Goulding, AOM on Hurley, Enright on O'Driscoll
    Murphy on Kerrigan, Fionn on Paddy Kelly and Young on O'Rourke

    Midfield, We'll most likely have Sheehan and Buckley switching in and out of the half forward line and Maher hopefully holding the middle.

    Forwards, Donnacha Walsh should be doing his usual running role, and hopefully distributing ball as well as he did in the last few games last year.

    Declan should move out to CHF, and attack from deep.

    JO'D, Geaney and SOB should be the inside forward line and will run at Cork early looking for goals.

    Both sides match up well against each other, and if the rain holds off, we could have a cracking high scoring match on our hands.

    My massive worry would be midfield as none of our players around the middle are in form. I think we will have the forwards to win ball and score if we get 50/50 around the middle.

    Corks Full back line is very physical, but O'Donaghue, Geaney and O'Brien should have the speed to get away from them. Cadogan and Shields got a roasting from JOD and Darren last year early on in Killarney, same sort of speed and footpassing game could open them up again.

    8/1 for the draw is very nice all things considered, but if I had to pick a winner I'd say Kerry by 2.

    That's a fair enough analysis IMO.

    Both tems have forwards that will win the game with the right ball but both sides have major concerns over MF. I don't know just how good Kelly is at kick-outs but Ken O Halloran is poor (to say the least) - that could be the area that hands the initiative to Kerry.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,265 ✭✭✭ciarriaithuaidh


    DDC1990 wrote: »
    I've been thinking of how we are going to play on Sunday.

    We should go Man-to-Man in the backs.

    Marc on Goulding, AOM on Hurley, Enright on O'Driscoll
    Murphy on Kerrigan, Fionn on Paddy Kelly and Young on O'Rourke

    Midfield, We'll most likely have Sheehan and Buckley switching in and out of the half forward line and Maher hopefully holding the middle.

    These 2 areas right here will decide the winner and loser. Kerry need to protect the back line a lot better than has happened in the last 2 championship games. On the match-ups, I'm assuming Enright will follow Kerrigan as he has almost always done, to decent effect. That means Murphy will slot into the corner probably. Problem really is who to put on Hurley? Not sure Marc is in the form to handle him, but should be ok on Goulding. O'Mahony looks sharp enough to be fair to him, big ask at this stage of his career though. Fionn Fitz might be the man put back there, with AOM on O'Driscoll, Young on Kelly. Hard to know really what the best setup is.

    Midfield is obviously where primary ball is won and Maher will need to up his game against Walsh. Buckley just back from injury, hard to know how he'll go, but will almost certainly not last the 70.

    I think the Kerry forwards can get enough scores to win the game IF the defensive side of things goes ok and midfield don't get destroyed.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,798 ✭✭✭Mr. Incognito


    These 2 areas right here will decide the winner and loser. Kerry need to protect the back line a lot better than has happened in the last 2 championship games. On the match-ups, I'm assuming Enright will follow Kerrigan as he has almost always done, to decent effect. That means Murphy will slot into the corner probably. Problem really is who to put on Hurley? Not sure Marc is in the form to handle him, but should be ok on Goulding. O'Mahony looks sharp enough to be fair to him, big ask at this stage of his career though. Fionn Fitz might be the man put back there, with AOM on O'Driscoll, Young on Kelly. Hard to know really what the best setup is.

    Midfield is obviously where primary ball is won and Maher will need to up his game against Walsh. Buckley just back from injury, hard to know how he'll go, but will almost certainly not last the 70.

    I think the Kerry forwards can get enough scores to win the game IF the defensive side of things goes ok and midfield don't get destroyed.

    Cant see midfield getting a sniff. Cork play a short kick out game. They murdered Kerry in the league when they targeted midfield kickouts. It baffles me why they persist in the short kick outs


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,265 ✭✭✭ciarriaithuaidh


    Cant see midfield getting a sniff. Cork play a short kick out game. They murdered Kerry in the league when they targeted midfield kickouts. It baffles me why they persist in the short kick outs

    Eh? Cork's midfield is fairly dodgy in case you haven't noticed and if it wasn't for the patchy form of Maher Kerry would most certainly dominate there. As it is I'd expect an even enough battle.

    "Murdering" anyone in a league game means very little as I've said here previously.


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