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Kerry GAA Discussion Thread Mod Warning Post #4167
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Well it's killing a skill that was one of the best parts of the game.
Don't mind it occasionally but surely fielding a ball is better than breaking it, he's s big lad he could break a tackle once he wins the kickout.0 -
Well it's killing a skill that was one of the best parts of the game.
Don't mind it occasionally but surely fielding a ball is better than breaking it, he's s big lad he could break a tackle once he wins the kickout.0 -
ciarriaithuaidh wrote: »I was at the league game. League is league, championship is championship. Marc was not fully fit during the league and was put on a roaming half forward that day, Colm O'Driscoll, wasn't able for it and was taken off.
He wasn't great the last day either, but you are writing his obituary a tad too soon. We'll see how he goes Sunday and then re-assess.
There's league games and league games. Playing Cork is playing Cork, league bedammed.
I'll be very happy to be proved wrong come Sunday.0 -
Kerryfootball wrote: »Well it's killing a skill that was one of the best parts of the game.
Don't mind it occasionally but surely fielding a ball is better than breaking it, he's s big lad he could break a tackle once he wins the kickout.
The skill is used less and less at intercounty because all too often you will come down in a crowd of 2 or 3 opponents who didnt even jump to contest it and you will struggle to get a pass away without turning the ball over or being blown for a free.0 -
Boom__Boom wrote: »There's league games and league games. Playing Cork is playing Cork, league bedammed.
I'll be very happy to be proved wrong come Sunday.
Like I said, it was the league. Kerry were fast asleep to Cork in the second half that day..Fitz left Griffin get isolated and roasted by Hurley which was obviously a tactical exercise to make a point. Not going to be repeated Sunday, I hope!
League is becoming less and less relevant for the top teams. Dublin hardly trained during the league this year..and why would they when they just need to get to 75-80% for July 20th, then 100% in August? Plus they have massive residual fitness from last season and a lot of the squad were training for Sigerson in December, January and February.0 -
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Boom__Boom wrote: »The skill is used less and less at intercounty because all too often you will come down in a crowd of 2 or 3 opponents who didnt even jump to contest it and you will struggle to get a pass away without turning the ball over or being blown for a free.
Ive played midfield with the club for 10 years now and when i look back its amazing how the games changed, Its tactically much better to punch it now because you can drive the ball 20 -30 yards back or forward, much easier than catching and coming down off balance and being surrounded by 3 men0 -
Boom__Boom wrote: »He's 35 next birthday and his form this year has been very poor.
No-one has a divine right to a Kerry jersey and Marc has done very little this year in terms of making a case for a Kerry jersey when playing for Kerry.
He's given a hell of a lot to the Kerry jersey over the years, but that doesn't automatically give him a divine right to keep the jersey.
Can't help wondering if he is getting somewhat of a pass because of his surname?Kerryfootball wrote: »Well then your questioning Eamons impartiality and judgment as he is watching training and making the calls, He obviously believes Marc is the best option.
Regarding god given rights or trading on names the latter is unfair nobody has given more to the Kerry cause than the O Se's and it's only when Marc retires will Kerry fans realise how lucky we were to have them.
From the moment he was appointed I always wondered would Fitzmaurice’s judgement on the guys he won All Irelands with (the O’Se’s, AOM, Brosnan, Galvin etc) be clouded by the fact that they were teammates and very successful.
The retirement of Tomas and Paul Gavlin actually did him some favours as it put an end to the silly ideas of playing Galvin at half back etc, it relived Fitzmaurice of a few selection headaches.
In the 2013 league he played both O’Se’s in all but one game. I’m not sure if there was any need for that.
Marc is having a poor season, and he will be 35 next birthday, it would be only right to suggest that he is starting based on what he has done in the more distant past , rather than what he has done in the more recent past.0 -
Harsh on Crowley who I'd love to see at 6 with Killian at 7
James & Buckley back too soon it would appear and it's a big ask of them to come in and produce on a minster final after long layoffs
I honestly see Cork winning by at least 5. I had concerns before the team was named but I don't think that team puts is in as strong a position tactically as it could. Time will tell I guess.0 -
ciarriaithuaidh wrote: »League is becoming less and less relevant for the top teams. Dublin hardly trained during the league this year..and why would they when they just need to get to 75-80% for July 20th, then 100% in August? Plus they have massive residual fitness from last season and a lot of the squad were training for Sigerson in December, January and February.
I find it very hard to agree with your assessment that the league is becoming less and less relevant for top teams. Since the re-organisation of the league in 2008 there has been a massive correlation between being amongst the top teams in the league and the top performers in the Championship. Ignoring the 2008 league because that was a bit of a sorting out year since 2009 three teams have been in Division 1 constantly - Dublin, Mayo & Kerry. Cork missed 1 year; Tyrone 2 and Donegal 3 (their small panel a real issue here) If you'd asked someone to name the top teams over the past 5 years how many would have named those 6 teams.
People look at the Derry's loss against Longford this year and use it to say that the league doesn't matter but Derry lost 6 players from their previous Championship game (5 injuries 1 to the US) and had a 7th black-carded. Everything went right for Longford that day - 9 different scorers and they still only won by 2 points. This was very much a freak result.
If you still don't think league form is important, look at the teams relegated from Division 1 and then try to remember how those teams did in that year's Championship. If you have a bad league in terms of being relegated from Division 1 you are odds on to have a miserable summer. Ignoring Kildare who still have a chance this year - of the 11 teams relegated from Division 1, only 2 got to the last 8 (and both of these lost that quarter-final game)
2014 - Westmeath ; Kildare
2013 - Donegal ; Down
2012 - Laois ; Armagh
2011 - Galway ; Monaghan
2010 - Tyrone ; Derry
2009 - Donegal ; Westmeath
I've included a link to Wikipedia as these relegated teams have gone on to have forgettable horror show summers for the most part.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_All-Ireland_Senior_Football_ChampionshipIve played midfield with the club for 10 years now and when i look back its amazing how the games changed, Its tactically much better to punch it now because you can drive the ball 20 -30 yards back or forward, much easier than catching and coming down off balance and being surrounded by 3 men
I'd imagine that at intercounty level with the step-up in fitness levels that it's even worse again than club level.0 -
Boom__Boom wrote: »I find it very hard to agree with your assessment that the league is becoming less and less relevant for top teams. Since the re-organisation of the league in 2008 there has been a massive correlation between being amongst the top teams in the league and the top performers in the Championship. Ignoring the 2008 league because that was a bit of a sorting out year since 2009 three teams have been in Division 1 constantly - Dublin, Mayo & Kerry. Cork missed 1 year; Tyrone 2 and Donegal 3 (their small panel a real issue here) If you'd asked someone to name the top teams over the past 5 years how many would have named those 6 teams.
People look at the Derry's loss against Longford this year and use it to say that the league doesn't matter but Derry lost 6 players from their previous Championship game (5 injuries 1 to the US) and had a 7th black-carded. Everything went right for Longford that day - 9 different scorers and they still only won by 2 points. This was very much a freak result.
If you still don't think league form is important, look at the teams relegated from Division 1 and then try to remember how those teams did in that year's Championship. If you have a bad league in terms of being relegated from Division 1 you are odds on to have a miserable summer. Ignoring Kildare who still have a chance this year - of the 11 teams relegated from Division 1, only 2 got to the last 8 (and both of these lost that quarter-final game)
2014 - Westmeath ; Kildare
2013 - Donegal ; Down
2012 - Laois ; Armagh
2011 - Galway ; Monaghan
2010 - Tyrone ; Derry
2009 - Donegal ; Westmeath
I've included a link to Wikipedia as these relegated teams have gone on to have forgettable horror show summers for the most part.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_All-Ireland_Senior_Football_Championship
I'd imagine that at intercounty level with the step-up in fitness levels that it's even worse again than club level.
Not getting off topic here, but a quick response.
The league is on a different page to the championship..literally. I have seen and observed some top teams preparation for the year and like I said, the league is now, largely, a means to test out players/formations more than anything else and rarely are teams at more than 60% conditioning level either.
Almost every top 10 county football team right now will be going through a serious strength and conditioning programme during the league AND will also have players who are playing Sigerson cup and won't re-enter the fold until March or so. In either case, the training plans for league and post-league are totally different.
I've said it before, but I'd be advocating (and hoping) that at some point we get to the stage where the league is dismantled, but used as the basis for an open championship structure, 4 x 8 or 3 x 11 or whatever.
Anyway, enough on that. Back to Cork v Kerry.0 -
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Just to point out that the correlation most people mention about the teams doing well in the league doing well in the Championship doesn't imply that the best teams prioritise the league, it just shows the teams that do best in the league ALSO do well in the Championship, which is very different.
All the correlation shows is that the best teams are the best teams, them being the best because they take the league uber-seriously is an add-on not really evidenced by the correlation. If all the teams took the league un-seriously we would have expected the same Championship results over the last five years for example.
Not saying it isn't the case (I suspect it isn't though), but the argument is a non-sequitur.0 -
Just to point out that the correlation most people mention about the teams doing well in the league doing well in the Championship doesn't imply that the best teams prioritise the league, it just shows the teams that do best in the league ALSO do well in the Championship, which is very different.
All the correlation shows is that the best teams are the best teams, them being the best because they take the league uber-seriously is an add-on not really evidenced by the correlation. If all the teams took the league un-seriously we would have expected the same Championship results over the last five years for example.
Not saying it isn't the case (I suspect it isn't though), but the argument is a non-sequitur.
Sorry, I don't speak Spanish...:p0 -
ciarriaithuaidh wrote: »Sorry, I don't speak Spanish...:p
The conclusion does not follow from the argument!0 -
looks like its one down, 2 to go....Kerry GAA @Kerry_Official · 32s
Junior Munster Football Final (2nd,56m) Kerry 3-14 Cork 0-12 #GAA Penalty by Gavan O Grady
Minors have a very decent chance on Sunday, so would be great to go into the senior final with 2 wins.0 -
The Munster final in Cork is not the place to bring in lads that were injured and off the pace. I think it's with one eye on getting them match fit for a run in the qualifiers.
The panel is weak this year but we could get a kind run and the extra games would actually do us more good than harm as it gives the new players experience.
I cant see anything but a comfortable Cork win.0 -
I've been thinking of how we are going to play on Sunday.
We should go Man-to-Man in the backs.
Marc on Goulding, AOM on Hurley, Enright on O'Driscoll
Murphy on Kerrigan, Fionn on Paddy Kelly and Young on O'Rourke
Midfield, We'll most likely have Sheehan and Buckley switching in and out of the half forward line and Maher hopefully holding the middle.
Forwards, Donnacha Walsh should be doing his usual running role, and hopefully distributing ball as well as he did in the last few games last year.
Declan should move out to CHF, and attack from deep.
JO'D, Geaney and SOB should be the inside forward line and will run at Cork early looking for goals.
Both sides match up well against each other, and if the rain holds off, we could have a cracking high scoring match on our hands.
My massive worry would be midfield as none of our players around the middle are in form. I think we will have the forwards to win ball and score if we get 50/50 around the middle.
Corks Full back line is very physical, but O'Donaghue, Geaney and O'Brien should have the speed to get away from them. Cadogan and Shields got a roasting from JOD and Darren last year early on in Killarney, same sort of speed and footpassing game could open them up again.
8/1 for the draw is very nice all things considered, but if I had to pick a winner I'd say Kerry by 2.0 -
I've been thinking of how we are going to play on Sunday.
We should go Man-to-Man in the backs.
Marc on Goulding, AOM on Hurley, Enright on O'Driscoll
Murphy on Kerrigan, Fionn on Paddy Kelly and Young on O'Rourke
Midfield, We'll most likely have Sheehan and Buckley switching in and out of the half forward line and Maher hopefully holding the middle.
Forwards, Donnacha Walsh should be doing his usual running role, and hopefully distributing ball as well as he did in the last few games last year.
Declan should move out to CHF, and attack from deep.
JO'D, Geaney and SOB should be the inside forward line and will run at Cork early looking for goals.
Both sides match up well against each other, and if the rain holds off, we could have a cracking high scoring match on our hands.
My massive worry would be midfield as none of our players around the middle are in form. I think we will have the forwards to win ball and score if we get 50/50 around the middle.
Corks Full back line is very physical, but O'Donaghue, Geaney and O'Brien should have the speed to get away from them. Cadogan and Shields got a roasting from JOD and Darren last year early on in Killarney, same sort of speed and footpassing game could open them up again.
8/1 for the draw is very nice all things considered, but if I had to pick a winner I'd say Kerry by 2.
That's a fair enough analysis IMO.
Both tems have forwards that will win the game with the right ball but both sides have major concerns over MF. I don't know just how good Kelly is at kick-outs but Ken O Halloran is poor (to say the least) - that could be the area that hands the initiative to Kerry.0 -
I've been thinking of how we are going to play on Sunday.
We should go Man-to-Man in the backs.
Marc on Goulding, AOM on Hurley, Enright on O'Driscoll
Murphy on Kerrigan, Fionn on Paddy Kelly and Young on O'Rourke
Midfield, We'll most likely have Sheehan and Buckley switching in and out of the half forward line and Maher hopefully holding the middle.
These 2 areas right here will decide the winner and loser. Kerry need to protect the back line a lot better than has happened in the last 2 championship games. On the match-ups, I'm assuming Enright will follow Kerrigan as he has almost always done, to decent effect. That means Murphy will slot into the corner probably. Problem really is who to put on Hurley? Not sure Marc is in the form to handle him, but should be ok on Goulding. O'Mahony looks sharp enough to be fair to him, big ask at this stage of his career though. Fionn Fitz might be the man put back there, with AOM on O'Driscoll, Young on Kelly. Hard to know really what the best setup is.
Midfield is obviously where primary ball is won and Maher will need to up his game against Walsh. Buckley just back from injury, hard to know how he'll go, but will almost certainly not last the 70.
I think the Kerry forwards can get enough scores to win the game IF the defensive side of things goes ok and midfield don't get destroyed.0 -
ciarriaithuaidh wrote: »These 2 areas right here will decide the winner and loser. Kerry need to protect the back line a lot better than has happened in the last 2 championship games. On the match-ups, I'm assuming Enright will follow Kerrigan as he has almost always done, to decent effect. That means Murphy will slot into the corner probably. Problem really is who to put on Hurley? Not sure Marc is in the form to handle him, but should be ok on Goulding. O'Mahony looks sharp enough to be fair to him, big ask at this stage of his career though. Fionn Fitz might be the man put back there, with AOM on O'Driscoll, Young on Kelly. Hard to know really what the best setup is.
Midfield is obviously where primary ball is won and Maher will need to up his game against Walsh. Buckley just back from injury, hard to know how he'll go, but will almost certainly not last the 70.
I think the Kerry forwards can get enough scores to win the game IF the defensive side of things goes ok and midfield don't get destroyed.
Cant see midfield getting a sniff. Cork play a short kick out game. They murdered Kerry in the league when they targeted midfield kickouts. It baffles me why they persist in the short kick outs0 -
Mr. Incognito wrote: »Cant see midfield getting a sniff. Cork play a short kick out game. They murdered Kerry in the league when they targeted midfield kickouts. It baffles me why they persist in the short kick outs
Eh? Cork's midfield is fairly dodgy in case you haven't noticed and if it wasn't for the patchy form of Maher Kerry would most certainly dominate there. As it is I'd expect an even enough battle.
"Murdering" anyone in a league game means very little as I've said here previously.0 -
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ciarriaithuaidh wrote: »Eh? Cork's midfield is fairly dodgy in case you haven't noticed and if it wasn't for the patchy form of Maher Kerry would most certainly dominate there. As it is I'd expect an even enough battle.
"Murdering" anyone in a league game means very little as I've said here previously.
Buckley isn't exactly in all star form either though what with him having a lay off recently. Fully expect us to lose the mf battle0 -
ciarriaithuaidh wrote: »Eh? Cork's midfield is fairly dodgy in case you haven't noticed and if it wasn't for the patchy form of Maher Kerry would most certainly dominate there. As it is I'd expect an even enough battle.
"Murdering" anyone in a league game means very little as I've said here previously.
Eh? Walsh is a sensational midfielder. Excellent in the air, a incredible motor, good tackler and two footed. Admittedly there isn't a stand out partner but Gould will be a match for a half for Buckley or Sheehan in midfield.
I'd expect Cork to be dominant in this sector. A big caveat to this though is that O'Halloran's kick outs are poor.0 -
Eh? Walsh is a sensational midfielder. Excellent in the air, a incredible motor, good tackler and two footed. Admittedly there isn't a stand out partner but Gould will be a match for a half for Buckley or Sheehan in midfield.
I'd expect Cork to be dominant in this sector. A big caveat to this though is that O'Halloran's kick outs are poor.
..and Walsh has hardly kicked a ball this year. His head is clearly in hurling mode, not football. I agree, at his best he is a great fielder, very mobile aswell, but he is nowhere near his peak. Don't let 3 scores against a tiring division 4 team fool you.
Plus you've also correctly pointed out that O'Halloran (so far) doesn't look confident enough with the kickouts to execute with accuracy enough of the time.0 -
ciarriaithuaidh wrote: »..and Walsh has hardly kicked a ball this year. His head is clearly in hurling mode, not football. I agree, at his best he is a great fielder, very mobile aswell, but he is nowhere near his peak. Don't let 3 scores against a tiring division 4 team fool you.
I don't see how he is 'clearly in hurling mode'. The schedule just worked out that there was a run of hurling fixtures.
They've had 3 weeks of football preparation now so I wouldn't worry about him. In reality he's only missed a half a game of championship football compared to anybody else. Pretty confident he's 'at his peak'.0 -
ciarriaithuaidh wrote: »..and Walsh has hardly kicked a ball this year. His head is clearly in hurling mode, not football. I agree, at his best he is a great fielder, very mobile aswell, but he is nowhere near his peak. Don't let 3 scores against a tiring division 4 team fool you.
Plus you've also correctly pointed out that O'Halloran (so far) doesn't look confident enough with the kickouts to execute with accuracy enough of the time.
I think the Tipp game will be of huge benefit to Cork - The kick-out routines fell apart v Tipp and in the 2nd half, Cork resorted to short kick-outs but Tipp open that door by going deep.
Cork management will surely have worked very hard to avoid a repeat so we'll probably see less rehearsed runs and a combination of short and up the middle.
Maher and Buckley lorded it in the 1st half last year but Walsh went to 11 for the 2nd half and drove Cork on from there. Alan O Connor broke Kerry's grip in MF. Maher's form has been iffy and it's impossible to say if Buckley is match sharp ( E Fitz admitted this)
There's a lot of unknowns in this MF battle and it's really impossible to call.0 -
I don't see how he is 'clearly in hurling mode'. The schedule just worked out that there was a run of hurling fixtures.
They've had 3 weeks of football preparation now so I wouldn't worry about him. In reality he's only missed a half a game of championship football compared to anybody else. Pretty confident he's 'at his peak'.
Cork played Waterford in hurling on May 25th, he was hurling for a month prior to that. Did all hurling up to the replay on June 8th and the 15th for Clare game. Would have done nothing but recovery the week after that, apart from maybe a kickaround. Played the Tipp game on 21st. May have trained the week after that. Then this week the team will have done little but tuning up...so in summation since April, he's had, I would estimate, maybe 1 full week of football training.0 -
Gary Neville wrote: »I think the Tipp game will be of huge benefit to Cork - The kick-out routines fell apart v Tipp and in the 2nd half, Cork resorted to short kick-outs but Tipp open that door by going deep.
Cork management will surely have worked very hard to avoid a repeat so we'll probably see less rehearsed runs and a combination of short and up the middle.
Maher and Buckley lorded it in the 1st half last year but Walsh went to 11 for the 2nd half and drove Cork on from there. Alan O Connor broke Kerry's grip in MF. Maher's form has been iffy and it's impossible to say if Buckley is mtach sharp ( E Fitz admitted this)
There's a lot of unknowns in this MF battle and it's really impossible to call.
Bit of a myth that if you watch the game again. Kerry went from 1-11 to 0-7 at half time, to 1-14 to 0-8 with 53 mins gone..O'Connor broke the odd ball at midfield and yes, Buckley ran out of steam a bit, but not before making one sensational catch over O'Connor.
Anyway, we'll see what happens on Sunday. Lot of variables like you say.0 -
I have heard some rubbish about sunday bit some on here beats all. Both sides have huge issues about a number of players, tactics and worryingly form. But imo the one huge advantage Kerry have is in midfield especially with donncha walsh doing the work he does. Walsh had a brilliant 5 minute cameo vs tipp to win the game but up until that point he was totally out of the game and made no impression, he has never driven on since 2010 and has failed miserably to provide any sort of consistency to his game at this level, in addition buckley and maher have held the whip hand over him for the last few years. Worse for me is that as a huge man he hasn't an ounce of dog required for this level. While he will make the odd brilliant run, might kick a score or 2 he is not anywhere near consistent enough in this area of the pitch in terms of winning primary possession, tackling, blocking and upsetting the opposition. Alongside him we have the greatest u21 player I have seen from cork in a while who despite being a senior for TEN YEARS has never once imo dominated a game as his talent suggested he might and certainly will not now, he was destroyed vs tipp and there is absolutely nothing in the previous past to suggest fintan has the nous for this level of football, alongside walsh it is the nicest midfield cork have had for a long time. Adding to this woe is the fact we have a brand new half back line -a centre back who has played full back, wing back and corner back for cork this year but rarely in the pivotal 6 position, some ask for this fella to hold the centre on sunday. Alongside him we have an antrim man who scores highly on bleep tests but if he had a north cork accent wouldn't be in the squad and for a back is really poor defensively at this level. Cahalane has the dog, has the ability but hasn't kicked a ball in anger since the Dublin game in MAY. Now if Kerry with a solid midfield pairing and a mixture of experience in Declan o Sullivan, Sheehan and walsh cant do serious damage in this area then they are in a bad way.
And finally to add to the sob story cork have a keeper who cannot kick the ball accurately past 30 metres, watch the Dublin game back or talk to anyone at the recent tipp game where his nerve went 20 minutes in and he started kicking to the corner back when tipp filtered back the pitch. If Kerry have done their homework they will push up and make ohallorhan kick out, he has a mx distance of 45 metres and is inaccurate.
While cork certainly have potential in the forwards outside the well past it goulding I expect Kerry to win this by a 3 points or less.0 -
ciarriaithuaidh wrote: »Cork played Waterford in hurling on May 25th, he was hurling for a month prior to that. Did all hurling up to the replay on June 8th and the 15th for Clare game. Would have done nothing but recovery the week after that, apart from maybe a kickaround. Played the Tipp game on 21st. May have trained the week after that. Then this week the team will have done little but tuning up...so in summation since April, he's had, I would estimate, maybe 1 full week of football training.
You would expect that with all the science involved now that preparation is essential - it must be very important to the likes of Donegal.
But the strange thing is that Walsh and Cadogan were 2 of Cork's better performers v Tipp and a lot of the lads that had played 3 challenge games, had a week-end camp in Limerick and numerous training sessions - were pretty uneffective.
Cadogan, Walsh and Cahalane missed a lot of league games through injury. I'd be more confident about these 3 than most others for Sunday. Hope it's not misplaced.
Perhaps the buzz from winning is giving a lift and mabe balancing things.0 -
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55 minutes in. If cork have a plan for this game I've yet to see it.0
This discussion has been closed.
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