Send in the Clowns - BAC 10K Challenge

Wednesday (evening): 5 mile recovery run @8:02/mile
Thursday: 6 mile recovery run
Legs stiff and sore, but with a sports massage planned for lunch-time, had to get the miles in early. Beautiful morning for a run along the sea-front, but even that couldn't lift the mood when the legs were feeling totally fecked. Sports massage definitely helped to improve mobility, but still plenty of residual stiffness. Followed up wit an hour of bouldering with the family, trying to get through some of the new competition routes (and failing pretty miserably).

Friday: 5 miles with strides
Another early start and another stiff painful affair. Again, I struggled to get down to 5k pace while just doing strides, which just doesn't bode well for a target race.

Saturday: Patrick Bell 5k
Headed out to the race with a few club-mates and the coach, who has run a none-too shabby 13:33 for 5k. It's kind of tough trying to make 15:52 sound impressive in such illustrious company, but great to hear about some of the achievements and background to some of his fantastic times, while winding down the clock until the start of the race. Legs were feeling better (as much down to Difene as any other reason) which offered some encouragement, so I was at least mentally prepared to give this one a good try. The organizers had unfortunately to change the course due to a nearby funeral, so instead of the more typical route, the race would follow an alternative loop, which I'd heard was a little bit lumpy. I headed out on my warm-up over the last mile of the course, and found to my dismay that over the last mile, we'd have an uphill drag into the wind. Sometimes maybe it's not better to run the last mile of the course. Jogged back to the car, threw on the racing flats and headed to the start line, where I bumped into Tunguska and cwgatlin. We lined up at the start and true to form, the race starter was scaring the crap out of all of the runners, by trying to usher everyone back behind the starting gantry, pushing them back while brandishing his loaded starting pistol (which had accidentally been discharged in a similar situation last year). In a strange twist of fate, his pistol didn't even fire on this occasion and we can only assume that someone had secretly confiscated his bullets in the interest of public safety. So the race started with a bit of a fizzle rather than a bang, but I got out well, taking Tunguska's advice to toe the line and get out fast.

Mile 1: I'd decided I was going to really go for it in this race, regardless of the outcome. I'd hit my goal time two weeks earlier, so really had nothing to lose by having a decent pop. So when the gun went did nothing, I went out hard and found myself in the top 5. 2-3 runners soon passed me, including my club-mate Neil, and Peter who had run a pretty sensational 2:32 in Cork marathon, just 5 days earlier. I wondered if having the marathon in Peter's legs would affect his performance, but it certainly didn't seem so as he surged forward in a small group of runners. I was in around 7th spot at this stage and a quick glance at the watch at the 1k mark (around 3:06), suggested I was on target. The problem was I knew that the last mile was going to be tough and to be honest, it played in my mind a little. After exactly a mile (5:06), we took a left turn, and I gradually closed on a runner and passed him soon afterwards. He held on for a little bit before falling gradually off the pace.

Mile 2: I didn't know it at the time, but the second mile has a bit of a downhill drop. I wasn't really feeling it, as the effort levels were at this stage extremely high. I was surprised to hear footsteps behind me as a runner drew level and gradually eased past me. A quick glance as he drew level, and I recognized the club colours of Ballyroan Abbeyleix AC. It was the exact same runner who had passed me at exactly the same point in the Enfield race two weeks previous. He must be one of the few runners who can successfully negative split a 5k race, as he caught me and eased past looking very smooth and untroubled. I chased after him but didn't manage to chase in his wake as long as I had managed in the previous race and soon he was opening a gap and drifting away. I was half way through the race and was really struggling at this point. I was having real difficulty maintaining the pace, and with nobody to run with, the will to keep pushing was withering away. The nail in the coffin came when the watch beeped for the second mile. I had been ignoring it up to this point, but when it beeped and I glanced down to see 5:16, with the toughest stretch to come, I knew I was in big trouble.

Mile 3: I rounded the corner that marked the start of the drag into the head-wind, and the real suffering began. Not sure how much was because of the pace, uphill drag and wind and how much of it just existed in my head, but it was particularly torturous. I don't remember much about this stretch of the race apart from the mental anguish. I just wanted to give in and just jog in over the finish line, but did just enough to keep tipping along. I never packed in the race, but didn't exactly fill myself with glory either. I didn't see the watch tick off the third mile in 5:19, but wouldn't have been greatly surprised. I managed to raise my game a little for the final stretch over the tarmac track, but was pretty dejected seeing the clock on the finish line ticking off 16:15 as I crossed underneath it.

Results confirmed a 7th place finish, but that provided little comfort for a pretty lacklustre performance. Times were down across the board, typically by a margin of 15-22 seconds on the tough warm course, but I can't accept that as an excuse for a pretty poor performance. I didn't run very well, and couldn't dig deep enough to stay positive and focussed. I wasn't expecting miracles (I remember just how hard I had to work in Enfield), but on the final day of 21 weeks of training, I just don't feel I did the program justice. As the dust settles on this particular phase of training, I can't have any regrets. The goal was to ready myself for the next round of training and record a 15:x 5k time, and I achieved both goals. It couldn't have gone any more to plan, if I'd written the script last christmas. This race is just the ugly full-stop at the end of this particular chapter. The plan is to race the 4 miles in Ferns on Saturday and next week, try to do some damage to my 10k time in Dunshaughlin, after which point, it'll be straight into marathon training once again.

Summary: 5k in 16:15

Sunday: 10 miles easy
Promised myself that if I ran well in Bohermeen, I'd take the Sunday off completely. Neither of those things panned out, but I was glad to hit the road with Neil for a few miles, which took the mind off the previous day's race (except when the conversation occasionally turned to the previous day's race!). It was good to get out for a few miles with company as it made the torrential rain a little less noticeable. Headed off with Emer for a couple of hours of rock climbing afterwards, the highlight of which was falling around 4-5 metres when one of the holds I had just grabbed gave way (spinning away from me). They say you should do something every day that scares you. Well this scared the crap out of me, so job done!
Summary: 10 miles in 73 mins, @7:13/mile

pconn062 wrote: »

Hmm, I'm scratching my brain here trying to figure out who that 13.33 runner might be, there's not that many to choose from?!

Hard luck on the race G, we've all had days like that. A friend of mine won the race and said the course and conditions made for tough running.

That'd be Gerry Curtis. I'm not sure whether I'm more impressed by his 13:33 5k, or his 62 minute half marathon. The man's a bit of an unsung hero.

Sure we can't have all the races go our own way. If we always knew the outcome beforehand, it'd be boring! I did a 10k session yesterday on the cinder track, and my final mile split was faster than the final mile of my 5k, which says it all really!

Do you know what kind of shape Mark is in at the moment? Has he run any other 5ks recently? We were just discussing the breadth of talent that Star of the Sea have at the moment. Phenomenal group of runners at the moment.

tunguska wrote: »

It was hilarious, even after the race had started I was laughing running up the road. He looked like a country Magnum PI with that slick looking silver pistol. Honestly after what happened before he'd be the last lad I'd let near a loaded gun, but I suppose it adds to the danger excitement.
I thought it was a tough race, definitely harder than the regular route. Dunshaughlin will let you know where you really stand though.

Certainly a tough route. It's the slowest of the last 4 x 5k races I've run (15:52, 16:07 and 16:00). Interestingly, it was by far the warmest race and the only one of the four races where I ran on my own. I'm a follower, not a leader. Really looking forward to Dunshaughlin. No specific 10k stuff before last night, but I reckon the 5k training will lend itself well. I've run a PB there the last few years I've run, so hopefully this visit will not be any different. Are you heading over yourself?

Yesterday: 10k session: (1M @T, 2M @10k, 1M @T, 1M @10k) with 4 mins rest
Near disastrous workout for many reasons, not least of which was a couple of cheeky pints to celebrate the end of the training plan and the consequent poor night's sleep. Wanted to try to work in some 10k specific stuff before Dunshaughlin, so flicked through the Magness book, and figured I could probably complete the last two weeks of the 10k plan, as the mileage is moderate and the sessions look transferable from my current 5k base. Headed down to the cinder after work, and surprisingly, it was pretty busy. Two lads were getting ready for their session and were putting down cones. Thankfully we were all respectful of track etiquette and got along just fine. But, the young lady with the shades and peaked cap who was staring at the ground just a meter in front of her, jogging slowly in a clockwise direction in lane 1 has a lot to learn. This must be how lane swimmers feel, when someone is going against the flow. As the session progressed, I had to move very wide to avoid her, and keep an eye out for the lads who were doing short sprints. Situation worsened as 50-60 kids form Cabinteely AC descended on the cinder, and immediately started clogging up the inside lane, so I ended up weaving my way in and out and trying to second guess where the kids were going to move next. No problems with the kids taking over the track (their collective need obviously being far greater than my own) but when warming up, the least they could do is use the outside lanes and kick the rest of us track users out, once they need to do the timed stuff. Eventually (once the kids had finished their warm-up), I cut my losses and headed for the path for my final rep. Last two recoveries were longer, due to having to shuffle over to the path, away from the track.

Distance: Planned/actual
1 Mile @threshold : 05:32 / 05:25
2 Miles @10k pace : 10:37 / 10:40
1 Mile @threshold : 05:32 / 05:25
1 Mile @10k pace : 05:18 / 05:18

First mile @T was pretty handy, except for having to navigate around the clockwise jogger and other lane 1 users. The 2 miles @10k were tough, as that was when the kids descended on the track and I was bobbing in and out for the entire two mile duration. Considered packing it in half way through, but held on long enough to get it done, three seconds off target (but had to run a good chunk further than 2 miles). Misread my split sheet on the third one, and was faster than planned. Ran the final one on the pavement over a flat section, and surprisingly it felt pretty comfortable, so definitely an option in future (on a less windy day). Didn't run this one exactly as it appeared on paper due to the track invasion, but was happy enough with the outcome. Definitely gave me a pick-me-up after Saturday's race.
Summary: 11.5 miles in 1:28, including recoveries

Mulberry wrote: »

If you added on around 2 minutes a mile to your times then that could have been my race report! It was a tough one all right and, sorry, but it is comforting to know that I wasn't the only one having a disappointing race. Onwards and upwards eh.

Let's all just erase it from our collective memory. Pretend it didn't happen. So... get up to anything interesting on Saturday?

KielyUnusual wrote:

Christ on a bike, that's some session! You'll be flying up that final little hill in Dunshaughlin. It's amazing how far you've come in the last few months.

Ah, it's not that tough. I had 4-5 minutes recovery between each segment. Besides, no better way to make 5:20 feel easy, than run lots of splits at 5:06/mile!

tunguska wrote: »

Yeah I should be there. Have picked up a kidney infection somehow and the last two days were spent pissing blood and feeling very ropey but I reckon I'll be ok by then.

Should'a stayed clear of the barbecue! Hope you heal up soon. Such a good race. Pity there are so few races of this caliber in the calendar.

Today: Session: 5 x (800m @5k w/ 2:30 recovery) + 4 hill sprints
With an eye on Saturday's race, figured I'd get this one done as early in the week as possible. Another session robbed from the 10k program, and surprisingly, not one in the 5k program. During the workout, it dawned on me that this is in fact the first half of a Yasso 800s session, with pretty equal run time and recovery. Don't think you're supposed to run them at 5k pace, but would have liked to have tried to do another few, just to see how many reps I could hold on for.

Target split: 2:31
Actual splits: 2:31/2:33/2:31/2:31/2:28

Somehow fell asleep for the second one, but made up for it on the last one. Hard, but manageable. Did the four hill sprints on my warm-down, at which stage the legs were feeling pretty creaky. Couple of easy days now until race day.
Summary: 9.5 miles

Weetabix wrote: »

Maybe I'm reading this wrong but is your next race Dunsaughlin? That is Saturday week 21st June, not this Saturday.

This week is Ferns. Next week is Dunshaughlin.

Sunday (15th): 7 mile recovery run.
Easy run to assist with the recovery and wrap up an easy 60 mile week.

Monday: Jack Daniels 2Q - 86 - 100 miles - Week 1 - Session 1
Well, no time like the present, I figured... My 5k training will make threshold and marathon pace feel easy, I conjectured... It's the very first session. How hard can it be? I wondered nervously...

I headed down to the cinder after work, fully aware that the Cabinteely kids would likely be swarming the track, so I'd have to make do with the 1.2 mile tarmac loop surrounding the track. I had decided on the 2Q 86 - 100 mile plan from revision 3 of JD's book, as I liked the structure of two quality sessions a week and felt that the 5k plan had hardened me a little and would make the high quality sessions a little easier. It was bloody warm (around 20'C), but it was ok. I had brought a bottle of water. Everything was going to be just fine. The session read a little like an entrance exam:
5 miles easy
6 miles @marathon pace
1 mile threshold
5 miles @marathon pace
1 mile threshold
1 mile marathon pace
1 mile easy
= 20 mile session, continuous running, no breaks.

JD kindly suggested that you could drop your vdot back a couple of notches for the first couple of weeks of the plan. I decided to just use my time from the Ferns race to establish my vdot, as it hadn't been a great time (same thing as dropping my vdot back). So my targets were around 6 min/mile for marathon pace, and around 5:35/mile for threshold. While the session was supposed to be continuous, I figured that given the heat, grabbing some water would be a necessity, so between segments, I'd try and make my way back to where I'd stashed my bottle.

5 miles easy was... easy, but I was sweating buckets by the time I had the easy miles completed. I had plenty time to think over the course of these easy miles and started analysing the session on my way down to the park. A total of 14 miles at approximately marathon pace as the first session in the plan (after 5 miles easy)? Suddenly the doubts crept in. I find it hard to run to run 15 miles at marathon pace towards the end of my marathon program. What kind of plan has a similar session right from the very start?

6 miles at marathon pace: Actually went ok. I felt like I was cruising pretty comfortably at 6 min/mile and despite having to weave my way around bicycles, dog-walkers, and groups of yooofs taking some sun, it went pretty well. I stopped briefly at the end to grab a couple of swigs of water. 6 miles in 35:43, @5:57/mile

1 mile @threshold: Holy jaysus it's hot. Still, after the few swigs of water and 30 second break, I felt much revived and the mile was manageable. Actual pace: 5:33.

5 miles @marathon pace: Holy fook. Suddenly everything started to spiral out of control. The first mile was hard. It eased briefly after that, but then I began to lose it completely. I was gradually falling apart. I managed to hold out for the entire 5 miles (30:24, @6:05/mile), but by the end I was completely broken. My form had dissolved completely and I was a bit of a shuddering mess. There was no point even considering the final threshold mile + marathon pace mile. I grabbed my (now empty) water bottle, and started the shuffle towards home, a broken man (physically and mentally). Everything was screaming at me... Achilles, calfs, shin, quads, glutes.. But worst of all, I had to bail on the very first session in the marathon program. I made it about a mile in the direction of home, before I realized that I was in a pretty bad state and trying to continue my shuffle home was only making things worse. I had my phone with me, and my final act of desperation was to ring home for rescue. I was pretty unwell for the rest of the day, adding digestive problems and blurred vision to my list of woes. I studied the plan again, trying to make sense of where I had gone wrong.

So where from here? Well, firstly, I've come to the realization that I hadn't made life easy for myself, running this session just 48 hours after a hot 4 mile race, on another even hotter day. I didn't compensate suitably for the weather (after eating and rehydrating I was still 5 lbs lighter than I'd been that morning), but despite all that, looking through the workouts, I just can't see that it is within my capability to complete this plan. I flicked back through the book and realized that I'd managed to complete the session described in the 71-85 miles plan, but even flicking through this plan, I'm beginning to doubt my ability to complete it successfully and make the Frankfurt start line. As I type this, I'm still in two minds as to what to do. A large part of me thinks that I will get best bang for my buck by going back to the tried and tested JD Plan A. It has worked really well a couple of times and I've made solid progress. This time, threshold will be faster, marathon pace will be faster, and the sessions will be longer. I'm not entirely convinced, but time is running out to make up my mind.

Summary: 18.5 miles in 2:00, @6:32/mile

RayCun wrote: »

I presume you're supposed to be starting the programme after a 6 week base-building period of only easy runs, rather than straight after a tough 5k programme?

I thought the tough 5k program was the base building for the marathon program?

jfh wrote: »

that's a phenomenally difficult first session, think the 2q plan is a lot more difficult than the 4 week cycle one.

just looking at the vdot calculator, not sure where your at but just say 62 which is 16:34 for 5k & 2:38 for the marathon,
then your marathon pace would be 6:04 & threshold pace at 5:45 & as Jack mentioned you'd ease into that after a few weeks so maybe those 15 seconds on the 5:33 T pace run where too much too soon especially in this heat?

If I used my recent 5k performance, which was 15:52 (you're correct Itziger!), that'd give me a vdot of 65, a T=5:31, and M=5:48. I backed off those numbers completely (5:38 and 6:00). But my unease is not just about my own ability to do that session. I have doubts about the relevance of the entire plan to me. 14 miles faster than marathon pace as the entry session, just doesn't sit well in my head. A couple of weeks from now, the plan would have me doing: 4E + 8M + 1T + 6M + 1T + 1 E. That's a 21 mile session, with 14 miles substantially faster than marathon pace (and that's in week 4). My goal when I pursue a marathon plan is to ultimately get to a stage where I can run 15 miles at marathon pace (which in my head means I'm on track for my target), rather than begin a plan, where 14 miles at marathon pace is an expectation.

I'll take a further look at some of the other plans in the book, but I don't feel an absolute need to move forward with Jack Daniels' new revisions. That doesn't mean that the plans or bad. Just that they may not make sense for me. That's the risk of generic plans. They can't suit everybody. I think there's an argument that if you find a plan that you know works for you (and is adaptable to take advantage of improving form), then there is a certain logic in continuing to use it. Sure, you can't repeat the same training patterns all of the time and expect to continue to see returns, but that's what the last 21 weeks of committed training has been all about.

I agree with the general sentiment that I wasn't in the best shape to tackle a session like that, but the sessions in the plan don't get any easier and I just don't feel that they develop in a manner that will be positive for me. If someone were to offer me the following two choices:
Scenario 1: Follow the 2Q plan - potentially achieve a marathon time of 2:32, accept a 50% risk that you won't make the start line
Scenario 2: Follow Plan A - potentially achieve a marathon time of 2:34, accept a 10% risk that you won't make the start line

In scenario 2, at least I still get to play ball. I get to repeat the cycle and continue trying to take chunks off of my various PBs. I guess you have to look at what really drives us as runners. Are we in this for the quick fix, or for the long haul? Are we prepared to risk it all for one killer PB, or do we prefer to play the long game? Better to blow-up or fade away? I'm not sure yet.