Fargo [FX/Channel 4] [ Spoilers ]

jcsoulinger · 18-06-2014 10:45pm

Tardful Slakerly II wrote: »

Lots of different bits that just went nowhere. The whole side show with the supermarket owner was plain poor, the rich wife, the Vegas detour, the fargo syndicate, the plane tickets meant nothing, nothing went anywhere. The whole thing played out completely reliant on coincidences, and while that's necessary to a certain degree in stories it's no substitute for actually having a plot.

Without such a strong cast, especially Thornton, I think it would have been a lot worse. It was more of a showcase than a show. I don't know that I'd watch a second season, tepid is a word I'd use having finished the season.

There is a main plot which is very well defined and then there is a number of sub plots which all pretty much ran there course imo. Its a credit not a criticism that a show has so many different things running at the same time.

TV shows generally have allot of coincidence, BB also had its fair share.

I think its very original TV and should get credit for that at least.

Tardful Slakerly II · 18-06-2014 10:53pm

jcsoulinger wrote: »

There is a main plot which is very well defined and then there is a number of sub plots which all pretty much ran there course imo. Its a credit not a criticism that a show has so many different things running at the same time.

TV shows generally have allot of coincidence, BB also had its fair share.

I think its very original TV and should get credit for that at least.

I already said that coincidence was necessary to a degree, this show relied on it completely, that's what I said there. The only thing well defined was the style, the main plot went nowhere for ten episodes and then ended in a lemony snicket skit. The show had some moments, but again it was style over substance.

The subplots went nowhere, I don't know where you're going there.

jcsoulinger · 18-06-2014 11:09pm

Tardful Slakerly II wrote: »

I already said that coincidence was necessary to a degree, this show relied on it completely, that's what I said there. The only thing well defined was the style, the main plot went nowhere for ten episodes and then ended in a lemony snicket skit. The show had some moments, but again it was style over substance.

The subplots went nowhere, I don't know where you're going there.

To say Fargo relied completely on coincidence is just not true. The main plot moved along at a steady rate throughout the series. Name one of the subplots that went nowhere? are you a fan of the movie?

18-06-2014 11:16pm

glasso wrote: »

Lester and Malvo have to go in the last episode I suppose. Postman Pat to can Malvo!

called it

poor enough last episode though.

18-06-2014 11:25pm

one more thing - what is the gloves story that Molly told to Lester supposed to mean?

Tardful Slakerly II · 18-06-2014 11:32pm

jcsoulinger wrote: »

To say Fargo relied completely on coincidence is just not true. The main plot moved along at a steady rate throughout the series. Name one of the subplots that went nowhere? are you a fan of the movie?

The film has nothing to do with my opinion of the show, they're not the same thing. It's an over-rated film though, and I like the Coen Brothers a lot.

Grimebox · 18-06-2014 11:38pm

glasso wrote: »

one more thing - what is the gloves story that Molly told to Lester supposed to mean?

What took from it is that some people want to do the right thing regardless of if they are left in bad situation. They do things for the greater good in a selfless manner. Molly wants to help others like this, she wants justice served for criminals.

IvaBigWun · 18-06-2014 11:53pm

Great end to the TV season's best debut. Better than the over-rated True Detective, or at least for me it was far more watchable.

What riddle was Malvo asking Postman Pat if he'd figured out yet?

FearDark · 19-06-2014 1:12am

Tardful Slakerly II wrote: »

Lots of different bits that just went nowhere. The whole side show with the supermarket owner was plain poor, the rich wife, the Vegas detour, the fargo syndicate, the plane tickets meant nothing, nothing went anywhere. The whole thing played out completely reliant on coincidences, and while that's necessary to a certain degree in stories it's no substitute for actually having a plot.

Without such a strong cast, especially Thornton, I think it would have been a lot worse. It was more of a showcase than a show. I don't know that I'd watch a second season, tepid is a word I'd use having finished the season.

I couldn't agree more.

pappyodaniel · 19-06-2014 2:42am

My only query is, if somebody can explain to me would be

when Gus found Malvo's cabin, the last shot we saw of Gus was him entering the front door. A good deal of time elapsed until Malvo returned. It wouldn't have taken Gus very long to be sure this was the guy they were looking for. Why didn't he call Molly and give the location of the cabin? Why didn't he say Malvo was headed in such and such a direction in a red BMW, that he was wearing a black jacket, that he had grey hair and had a goatee?

How could Gus be sure that Malvo wasn't in the process of possibly murdering his wife, his unborn child and his teenage daughter?? How could Gus sit there in the cabin and wait (unknowingly if Malvo would return) to seal Malvo's fate. That for me is the only slight on what was an excellent series.

I especially loved how Gus assassinated Malvo. Too many times have we seen on TV and in the movies where a showdown occurs between the good guy and the bad guy only to see the bad/good guy get away in the middle of a conversation. Everybody watching the scene is roaring at the tele screaming "JUST SHOOT HIM ALREADY!!"
That was a satisfying conclusion for me.

DeepBlue · 19-06-2014 7:28am

IvaBigWun wrote: »

What riddle was Malvo asking Postman Pat if he'd figured out yet?

It was something to do with the human eye being able to differentiate between a large number of shades of green and what that meant.
Molly explained that it had to to with the human need to detect predators in the wild. I can't quite remember exactly but it was in one of the earlier episodes.

I had a bit of an issue with Gus basically just murdering Malvo but I guess he knew how evil he was and what happened the last time he just arrested him and brought him in.

squonk · 19-06-2014 7:58am

I liked the series overall. I found it more watchable than True Detective. That's not a criticism of TD but just that Fargo was a bit more immediate or something. I'm left a bit wondering about the supermarket owner plot and the widow myself. They really did go nowhere and I found it a bit disappointing as I thought there might be some feed in to the main plot. There wasn't much, if any really.

I really felt bad for Lester's second wife. What a prick sending her in to the shop when he knew Malvo was waiting. Lester deserved far more than just falling stupidly into a lake.

One thing I missed was why Malvo showed up in the town in the first place? I got the impression it was to kill the guy bullying Lester in the first episode. The whole Fargo thing after that just seemed a bit tenuous/ The only rationale for coming back to kill Lester was that he could identify Malvo from what I could see.

I'm looking forward to a second season if we get it. I really loved the way it was shot and scored. There was something hokey and charming about Molly & Gus and I liked that Better Call Saul's character grew on me. At the start I thought he was the worst cop in the world but it was interesting to see later on that he was laregely just a good guy struggling to deal with the level of crap going on in the world these days.

If anything, I hope future series take a cue from the score for this series. It was soaring and epic. I really loved it.

Thundercats Ho · 19-06-2014 8:15am

Gus not phoning the cops, when malvo was leaving the cabin, led to the death of 3 people (one of which was a civilian). Gus then kills malvo in cold blood, and gets a commendation for bravery. Nonsense

Sure Malvo was evil enough, but what did he do to Gus except make him look and feel like the fool he is (in the earlier episode in Deluth). Malvo deserved to die, but not at the hands of gus. Gus should've been jailed for murder imo.

Lester setting the wife up, by wearing his jacket was pretty cold. I didn't get the point of him trying to get the tickets from her jacket though. If he wanted to use them to escape to Mexico, he could have printed them off again (even at the airport), and if he was trying to hide evidence of them flying off (when he told molly they'd be around to answer questions) there would still be records of him purchasing tickets.

Malvo so easily calling off the FBI support, and taking a bear trap off his mangled leg.

And these are just my nit-picks with this episode!
The more I think about it, the more ridiculous it becomes. Maybe that was the point of it, I don't know.
I think i'll just stop thinking about it and enjoy it for what it was, but I won't be tuning in for season 2, that's for sure.

Thundercats Ho · 19-06-2014 8:21am

squonk wrote: »

One thing I missed was why Malvo showed up in the town in the first place? I got the impression it was to kill the guy bullying Lester in the first episode.

In the first scene in episode 1, Malvo is driving the guy he kidnaps from the office (in a later episode, maybe around ep 5?) and he hits a deer that runs into his path. The boot pops and yer man jumps out of the boot, and legs it into the woods in his jocks.

Malvo goes to the hospital to get treatment, where he meets Lester.
The whole thing is based on coincidence and this is the starting point.
Had the deer not ran into his path, he would never have stopped in bemidji.

jack presley · 19-06-2014 8:46am

The supermarket owner storyline was needed as he was the reason Malvo was in the area in the first place. Had he not been blackmailed, he would never had hired Malvo, who wouldn't have hit the deer, gone to the hospital, met Lester etc.

Also, is there a chance some of the arcs that went no where (the chief's foster kid from Africa for example) were put in to put weight behind the ruse that it's based on a true story?

The original film had a scene where yer one meets a bloke from school by chance in a bar and that added nothing to the plot either. So maybe the writers wanted to keep up the film's spirit by adding a couple of things to keep the viewers guessing just like the Coens did.

Thundercats Ho · 19-06-2014 8:57am

jack presley wrote: »

The supermarket owner storyline was needed as he was the reason Malvo was in the area in the first place. Had he not been blackmailed, he would never had hired Malvo, who wouldn't have hit the deer, gone to the hospital, met Lester etc.

Half way through episode 2, Malvo picked up the parcel in the post office with the greek guys autobiography and his new fake ID. He then went to the supermarket to speak with him. By that stage, Malvo had already killed the police chief, Sam Hess, the guy in the car boot by proxy, and had his run in with Gus too. Fargo had already sent the two hitmen down to Bemidji to investigate Hess's death by this stage too.

19-06-2014 9:04am

Agree with some of the other posters, this series just about succeeded because of the cast, mainly BBT. The fat police chick (even before she was pregnant) and postman Pat I find sort of annoying so wouldn't be tuning back in if a second series sticks with them.

jack presley · 19-06-2014 9:04am

Thundercats Ho wrote: »

Half way through episode 2, Malvo picked up the parcel in the post office with the greek guys autobiography and his new fake ID. He then went to the supermarket to speak with him. By that stage, Malvo had already killed the police chief, Sam Hess, the guy in the car boot by proxy, and had his run in with Gus too. Fargo had already sent the two hitmen down to Bemidji to investigate Hess's death by this stage too.

I don't get your point. I think he had decided at that stage that even though he had been hired by Stavros, he was going to find out who the kidnapper was and take over the extortion attempt (which he did).

Thundercats Ho · 19-06-2014 9:15am

jack presley wrote: »

I don't get your point. I think he had decided at that stage that even though he had been hired by Stavros, he was going to find out who the kidnapper was and take over the extortion attempt (which he did).

I agree with the underlined.

My point is that you said had the greek not hired malvo, he wouldn't have been in town in the first place, and none of this would've happened, when he had been in town already.

He was in town from the first scene of ep.1, but doesn't meet the greek until halfway through ep.2

He was in town on pure chance because of the deer thing. He phoned his handler to say he'd be a few days late, but that the other guy in the boot had been taken care of (he went back to his handler in ep.7 to get info on the Fargo syndicate). His handler then sent the info on the greek to him at the Bemidji post office.

the_monkey · 19-06-2014 11:24am

Thundercats Ho wrote: »

Gus not phoning the cops, when malvo was leaving the cabin, led to the death of 3 people (one of which was a civilian). Gus then kills malvo in cold blood, and gets a commendation for bravery. Nonsense

Sure Malvo was evil enough, but what did he do to Gus except make him look and feel like the fool he is (in the earlier episode in Deluth). Malvo deserved to die, but not at the hands of gus. Gus should've been jailed for murder imo.

Lester setting the wife up, by wearing his jacket was pretty cold. I didn't get the point of him trying to get the tickets from her jacket though. If he wanted to use them to escape to Mexico, he could have printed them off again (even at the airport), and if he was trying to hide evidence of them flying off (when he told molly they'd be around to answer questions) there would still be records of him purchasing tickets.

Malvo so easily calling off the FBI support, and taking a bear trap off his mangled leg.

And these are just my nit-picks with this episode!
The more I think about it, the more ridiculous it becomes. Maybe that was the point of it, I don't know.
I think i'll just stop thinking about it and enjoy it for what it was, but I won't be tuning in for season 2, that's for sure.

I was thinking the same, I don't know if he should have been jailed, but he shot an unarmed man lying on a couch with a broken leg ?

There's no way he would have been awarded for bravery !! - unless they planted a gun on Malvo ...

Also , Lester should have gone to Jail, and maybe a quick cameo by William H Macy

Grimebox · 19-06-2014 11:29am

Is there going to be a second season? I can't see why there should be any reason to continue the story from where it left off. It wrapped up quite nicely

My name is URL · 19-06-2014 11:52am

Grimebox wrote: »

Is there going to be a second season? I can't see why there should be any reason to continue the story from where it left off. It wrapped up quite nicely

It'll probably be a totally new storyline & cast etc. Similar to how season 2 of True Detective is going to be unrelated to season 1.

same ol sh1te · 19-06-2014 12:00pm

My name is URL wrote: »

It'll probably be a totally new storyline & cast etc. Similar to how season 2 of True Detective is going to be unrelated to season 1.

Fargo being the name of the place makes it easy to do

Alfred Borden · 19-06-2014 12:59pm

Tv show of the year so far for me.

FearDark · 19-06-2014 1:38pm

I've never seen a TV show split so many opinions.
People saying it was the best show of the year etc.
Personally I think It was a bag of ****e.

squonk · 19-06-2014 1:39pm

Thanks for the updates on why Malvo was there. I'd forgotten. I'm a bit all over the place with my viewing this Summer so wasn't watching Fargo in any regular fashion.

I meant to add to my last past that Gus hiding out at Malvo's house bugged me too. It was incredibly irresponsible, especially considering all the grief he'd given to Molly about not endangering herself or the baby. It was worse considering he was a pretty poor policeman and, given that he didn't look too stressed out or hurried delivering mail, you'd wonder how great he actually is at that either. It was pretty stupid but also was a sad end for Malvo who deserved to go out on his own terms rather than being shot. When you juxtapose that with his capability in mending his leg after the bear trap, it juse seems needless. I really don't think they should have written in the commendation for Gus really.

19-06-2014 2:00pm

Could work for series 2 I guess if as planned they are using a completely new cast. Could be exciting to see what big names they could attract for the roles. Some room for improvement in the concept in general. The quality of the show went down a bit in the last 2 or 3 episodes I thought.

the_monkey · 19-06-2014 2:46pm

glasso wrote: »

Could work for series 2 I guess if as planned they are using a completely new cast. Could be exciting to see what big names they could attract for the roles. Some room for improvement in the concept in general. The quality of the show went down a bit in the last 2 or 3 episodes I thought.

Could be set in the 1970's with a young version of Molly's Dad ... it was hinting it in the last couple episodes.

- I'm still hoping for a William H Macy appearance somewhere

Maybe his Dad ?

GreNoLi · 19-06-2014 6:38pm

Thornton's portrayal of loveable psycho Lorne Malvo was the highlight of the series for me.

Would rather they didn't do another season.

jack presley · 19-06-2014 9:39pm

Do you reckon Malvo was involved in this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TVYl70x5rXw

Tipsy McSwagger · 19-06-2014 10:57pm

pappyodaniel wrote: »

My only query is, if somebody can explain to me would be
when Gus found Malvo's cabin, the last shot we saw of Gus was him entering the front door. A good deal of time elapsed until Malvo returned. It wouldn't have taken Gus very long to be sure this was the guy they were looking for. Why didn't he call Molly and give the location of the cabin? Why didn't he say Malvo was headed in such and such a direction in a red BMW, that he was wearing a black jacket, that he had grey hair and had a goatee?

How could Gus be sure that Malvo wasn't in the process of possibly murdering his wife, his unborn child and his teenage daughter?? How could Gus sit there in the cabin and wait (unknowingly if Malvo would return) to seal Malvo's fate. That for me is the only slight on what was an excellent series.

I especially loved how Gus assassinated Malvo. Too many times have we seen on TV and in the movies where a showdown occurs between the good guy and the bad guy only to see the bad/good guy get away in the middle of a conversation. Everybody watching the scene is roaring at the tele screaming "JUST SHOOT HIM ALREADY!!"
That was a satisfying conclusion for me.

Gus was carrying the shame of Malvo scaring the crap out of him and failing to do his job as a cop, and decided this was his chance to man up and deal with it. If he rang Molly she would have probably rushed to the cabin and thus putting herself in danger. Gus knew how dangerous Malvo was and came to the conclusion that it was better to just wait for him to come back to the cabin instead of putting him in a direct confrontation with small town cops who are pretty useless.

pappyodaniel · 19-06-2014 11:30pm

Tipsy McSwagger wrote: »

Gus was carrying the shame of Malvo scaring the crap out of him and failing to do his job as a cop, and decided this was his chance to man up and deal with it. If he rang Molly she would have probably rushed to the cabin and thus putting herself in danger. Gus knew how dangerous Malvo was and came to the conclusion that it was better to just wait for him to come back to the cabin instead of putting him in a direct confrontation with small town cops who are pretty useless.

That doesn't cut it for me. How could he sit there in wait of Malvo's return not knowing what dispicable acts he was carrying out, even possibly on his wife and daughter. Maybe this was intentional by the creators of the show. Gus had already been shown up to be cowardly and indecisive, this just continued on from that. Him shooting a wounded Malvo wasn't really a case of him doing the right thing, it was more to do with his ego and masculinity.

Tardful Slakerly II · 19-06-2014 11:55pm

pappyodaniel wrote: »

That doesn't cut it for me. How could he sit there in wait of Malvo's return not knowing what dispicable acts he was carrying out, even possibly on his wife and daughter. Maybe this was intentional by the creators of the show. Gus had already been shown up to be cowardly and indecisive, this just continued on from that. Him shooting a wounded Malvo wasn't really a case of him doing the right thing, it was more to do with his ego and masculinity.

That's ignoring the nonsense that had him discover the place in the first place. It expects viewers to forgive far too much.

FearDark · 20-06-2014 12:03am

Tardful Slakerly II wrote: »

That's ignoring the nonsense that had him discover the place in the first place. It expects viewers to forgive far too much.

It's that sort of nonsence or should I say coincidence that the entire show is based on. Utterly awful story telling, the whole show relied on people "accidently" putting the jigsaw together, the only character in the show that had brains was Molly. Every other storyline relied on coincidence and the viewer being retarded.

Tipsy McSwagger · 20-06-2014 8:03am

pappyodaniel wrote: »

That doesn't cut it for me. How could he sit there in wait of Malvo's return not knowing what dispicable acts he was carrying out, even possibly on his wife and daughter. Maybe this was intentional by the creators of the show. Gus had already been shown up to be cowardly and indecisive, this just continued on from that. Him shooting a wounded Malvo wasn't really a case of him doing the right thing, it was more to do with his ego and masculinity.

Like I said you don't confront Malvo head on. Instead you hide just like Lester did when he wounded Malvo and Gus did when he killed him. Gus figured that Molly was safe at the police station and the daughter was protected by Molly's father who was a bit of a badass himself. Gus was the opposite of the father, he wasn't comfortable with a gun and liable to seriously mess thing up if he went to rescue Molly or his daughter.

bluefinger · 20-06-2014 10:30am

Just reading the thread and wondered what people thought of the significance of the wolf at the end. Might that have been the reason the dear ran in front of Malvo's car at the beginning? would be lovely symmetry.

Tardful Slakerly II · 20-06-2014 11:31am

bluefinger wrote: »

Just reading the thread and wondered what people thought of the significance of the wolf at the end. Might that have been the reason the dear ran in front of Malvo's car at the beginning? would be lovely symmetry.

Malvo made a song and dance out of being a wolf, a predator, it was in his talk with the supermarket guy and his riddle to Gus etc.

Malvo was the wolf in the story. His downfall was being caught in an animal trap even.

I'm holding back criticism here too but safe to say it was sophomoric.. BBT was the big bad wolf among the sheep.
As symbolism/story telling goes the wolf being there, and leading Gus there was very heavy handed and again really lazy, essentially a fairy tale trope.

bluefinger · 20-06-2014 3:39pm

Tardful Slakerly II wrote: »

Malvo made a song and dance out of being a wolf, a predator, it was in his talk with the supermarket guy and his riddle to Gus etc.

Malvo was the wolf in the story. His downfall was being caught in an animal trap even.

I'm holding back criticism here too but safe to say it was sophomoric.. BBT was the big bad wolf among the sheep.
As symbolism/story telling goes the wolf being there, and leading Gus there was very heavy handed and again really lazy, essentially a fairy tale trope.

i realise that but actually looked past the symbolism as i thought that whole angle was way too obvious, though i did like the different shades of green part of it.

mike65 · 22-06-2014 9:52pm

Just watched the final episode on Channel 4.

A fair bit of literalism in the posts above me - the world of Fargo is not the real world its a fantasy environment. It has been from the first moment to the last. As much as Twin Peaks was in its way or Utopia is in its.

camz09 · 22-06-2014 10:08pm

jack presley wrote: »

The original film had a scene where yer one meets a bloke from school by chance in a bar and that added nothing to the plot either. So maybe the writers wanted to keep up the film's spirit by adding a couple of things to keep the viewers guessing just like the Coens did.

Eh, in the Fargo film, that scene (initially) felt out of nowhere until it becomes an IMPORTANT turning point to Marge's realisation that she should take people's words with a grain of salt. She realised how deceptive the guy was, which made her second guess her previous interview w/ William H Macy and went back to his office. Now, with the Fargo TV series, I don't know what was that for. Personally feel the show had a lot of filler scenes and sub plots: Stavros/Glenn Howerton plot felt inconsequential to the show, the deaf guy completely forgotten about, the Hess sons being completely cartoonish, stunt-casting key&peele, etc. Great music and cinematography, though!

TheRedDevil10 · 22-06-2014 10:32pm

jack presley wrote: »

The supermarket owner storyline was needed as he was the reason Malvo was in the area in the first place. Had he not been blackmailed, he would never had hired Malvo, who wouldn't have hit the deer, gone to the hospital, met Lester etc.

Also, is there a chance some of the arcs that went no where (the chief's foster kid from Africa for example) were put in to put weight behind the ruse that it's based on a true story?

The original film had a scene where yer one meets a bloke from school by chance in a bar and that added nothing to the plot either. So maybe the writers wanted to keep up the film's spirit by adding a couple of things to keep the viewers guessing just like the Coens did.

Stavros' house and Phoenix Farms are in Duluth

D-FENS · 23-06-2014 11:49am

Not the first time Martin Freeman has been involved in trying to solve the Fox/Rabbit/Cabbage riddle...

Gareth: Get his wife to help.
Tim: He doesn't have a wife.
Gareth: All farmers have wives.
Tim: This one doesn't, he's gay.
Gareth: Well then, he shouldn't be allowed near animals should he

cena · 23-06-2014 11:54am

Is there going to be a season 2

bluefinger · 23-06-2014 3:07pm

cena wrote: »

Is there going to be a season 2

yes, although not confirmed yet.

cena · 23-06-2014 3:18pm

bluefinger wrote: »

yes, although not confirmed yet.

Hard to see where it goes from here.

same ol sh1te · 23-06-2014 3:23pm

cena wrote: »

Hard to see where it goes from here.

Could be completely unrelated like True Detective season 2

CastorTroy · 23-06-2014 9:16pm

Yeah the showrunner said it won't be about Molly and Gus anyway. And since Fargo's a town, there are different stories that can be told

michael999999 · 23-06-2014 9:20pm

CastorTroy wrote: »

Yeah the showrunner said it won't be about Molly and Gus anyway. And since Fargo's a town, there are different stories that can be told

Maybe its that kid that was adopted by the chief, as the next storyline!

bnt · 23-06-2014 11:30pm

I was wondering what else Allison Tolman has done: turns out she's been in a few commercials:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7sTfC1oqJE

(The last one ... let's just all be thankful that, with a Critics’ Choice Television Award on her mantelpiece, and more awards likely, Allison will probably never need to that again. )

meoklmrk91 · 24-06-2014 1:00am

I held off on watching this until it was over and then binge watched the lot. Over all I have to say I really enjoyed it, some of the most enjoyable TV I've seen this year in fact. I would be happy with this being a stand alone and not seeing a 2nd season, at the same time a 2nd season could be interesting.

Fargo [FX/Channel 4] [** Spoilers **]

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Fargo [FX/Channel 4] [ Spoilers ]