Foal beaten to death, then set alight by gang of kids in Galway

meoklmrk91 · 20-06-2014 01:34AM

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Sounds good but try getting Travellers to obey those rules.

I agree it would be hard. It does seem that it is one rule for us and one rule for them and not just when it comes to animal welfare issues. But this will never change unless the laws, courts and gardai are not tough on them. The only reason sulky racing has not been banned is because Pavee Point will be out crying descriminstion. If that was anyone else it would have been banned immediately. The laws need to have teeth, the gardai need to enforce them and the courts need to hand down harsher sentences. It's a simple as that, keep driving the message home and if it doesn't get through then here's a prison sentence for you.

Galwayguy35 · 20-06-2014 01:41AM

meoklmrk91 wrote: »

I agree it would be hard. It does seem that it is one rule for us and one rule for them and not just when it comes to animal welfare issues. But this will never change unless the laws, courts and gardai are not tough on them. The only reason sulky racing has not been banned is because Pavee Point will be out crying descriminstion. If that was anyone else it would have been banned immediately. The laws need to have teeth, the gardai need to enforce them and the courts need to hand down harsher sentences. It's a simple as that, keep driving the message home and if it doesn't get through then here's a prison sentence for you.

Horses dying on the side of the road from exhaustion or being in an accident with a car after sulky racing.

Horse beaten to death and burnt.

Anyone hear Pavee Point on the airwaves when this happens?

meoklmrk91 · 20-06-2014 01:47AM

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Horses dying on the side of the road from exhaustion or being in an accident with a car after sulky racing.

Horse beaten to death and burnt.

Anyone hear Pavee Point on the airwaves when this happens?

LOl, cold day in hell I would imagine. They don't want a ban on sulky racing as they think it would drive it underground and make it more dangerous, but the don't agree with it being done on public roads? They have plenty of travellers in England, they don't have this issue, why? Because the Police and the English won't put up with it. I can guarantee you that nothung will be said on this matter by any politician in any meaningful way until some law abiding citizen is killed on their way to work or dropping their kids to school. Too afraid to stand up in case they are accused of discrimination. Pavee Point are a useless oranisation who only marginalise the travelling community even more because if their constant the defence of the criminal element that just so happen to also be travellers.

foggy_lad · 20-06-2014 02:38AM

The only way to stop stuff like this happening is to take all the horses off these kids and other degenerates who mistreat them and slaughter them humanely. There are far too many horses in the country and these poor beasts couldn't go into the food chain because we don't know their history etc so it would be the dog food and glue factory for them.

Also threads like this always seem to turn into slagging matches between the meat is murder crowd and vegans and the rest who see no harm in eating meat or eggs or wearing animal products. The animal welfare people would be better served concentrating on getting the horses away from these scumbags first before taking on the rest of us with arguments about killing cows for meat or the number of male calf's shot after being born on dairy farms just so we can have milk in our tea.

When people start going on about animal rights stuff in threads like this I tend to lose interest in doing anything about the original issue of the awful cruelty to horses

mosi · 20-06-2014 02:49AM

meoklmrk91 wrote: »

LOl, cold day in hell I would imagine. They don't want a ban on sulky racing as they think it would drive it underground and make it more dangerous, but the don't agree with it being done on public roads? They have plenty of travellers in England, they don't have this issue, why? Because the Police and the English won't put up with it. I can guarantee you that nothung will be said on this matter by any politician in any meaningful way until some law abiding citizen is killed on their way to work or dropping their kids to school. Too afraid to stand up in case they are accused of discrimination. Pavee Point are a useless oranisation who only marginalise the travelling community even more because if their constant the defence of the criminal element that just so happen to also be travellers.

True, Pavee Point aren't doing anyone any favours. I was reading stuff by them and other traveller groups that just kept going on about how the Control of Horses Act is just discriminatory legislation.

In terms of the wider issue of urban horse ownership, does anyone think the horse projects can do more to help, or do they just legitimise continued urban horse ownership? I was reading an article about one of them and, while it had its good points, I wasn't too impressed by the accompanying picture of one of their members sitting bareback on a horse in Smithfield. I'm not familiar with how exactly these projects are run, so I can't really work out what role they can play.
Even with proper enforcement, work would need to be done to change attitudes about horses. I get annoyed when I hear about some romanticised "urban horse culture" or "pony kids" though, that just HAVE to have horses. When I was a kid, I rode and desperately wanted a pony. However, my parents knew nothing about horses and couldn't afford livery so...tough for me, I quite rightly never got one. Why do certain people think they have an entitlement to own an animal they can't look after?

meoklmrk91 · 20-06-2014 03:02AM

mosi wrote: »

True, Pavee Point aren't doing anyone any favours. I was reading stuff by them and other traveller groups that just kept going on about how the Control of Horses Act is just discriminatory legislation.

In terms of the wider issue of urban horse ownership, does anyone think the horse projects can do more to help, or do they just legitimise continued urban horse ownership? I was reading an article about one of them and, while it had its good points, I wasn't too impressed by the accompanying picture of one of their members sitting bareback on a horse in Smithfield. I'm not familiar with how exactly these projects are run, so I can't really work out what role they can play.
Even with proper enforcement, work would need to be done to change attitudes about horses. I get annoyed when I hear about some romanticised "urban horse culture" or "pony kids" though, that just HAVE to have horses. When I was a kid, I rode and desperately wanted a pony. However, my parents knew nothing about horses and couldn't afford livery so...tough for me, I quite rightly never got one. Why do certain people think they have an entitlement to own an animal they can't look after?

I personally don't think horses have any business in an urban setting, that's just my opinion and maybe I'm wrong but I don't think these urban horse projects do any good. There are plenty of people who would love a horse but because they cannot afford livery or do not have the land they don't have one, just like yourself. My own opinion on the entitlement is that when you are entitled to social welfare, entitiled to terrorise and take over entire neighbourhoods, entitled to have amenities built especially for you, entitled to purpose built housing etc. etc. when you are entitled to everything without having to play by the rules of normal society then why would you? Nobody is stopping them, not the councils, not the courts, not the gardai who generally only deal with such people when they really, really have to. I mean you are talking about an element who feel entitled to take up public roads causing serious danger to other road users. Of course they are entitled to a horse, sure what is anyone going to do to stop them.

Amirani · 20-06-2014 03:55AM

sup_dude wrote: »

We are designed to eat meat. Same way as some animals are designed to only eat vegetation and some are only designed to eat meat which is why the digestive systems of each of the three are similar

Humans aren't "designed", there's no evidence to suggest they are so I don't know why you keep stating this as if it's a fact.

Humans have evolved with the ability to consume both meat and plants. However, this ability doesn't mean that there's an equal pre-disposition to both, the human digestive system is far better suited to consuming plants as it's much more similar to that of herbivorous animals. Where the "evolution" argument falls down most though is in looking at the numerous situations in which humans don't do what they've evolved to do. Eating meat isn't necessary for healthy living and survival, it's something we do by choice.

PixelTrawler · 20-06-2014 06:51AM

This thread has gone way off topic. 7 pages of completely unrelated debate.

Absolutely horrific case of abuse. Its highly likely they will go unpunished. We have way too many cases in this country.

I dont know what the solution but throwing in jail for a few weeks whilst deserved isnt the answer. First of all the parents also need to be jailed. And a lot of it comes down to education.

Disgusting.

Ave Sodalis · 20-06-2014 07:43AM

Diego Simeone wrote: »

Humans aren't "designed", there's no evidence to suggest they are so I don't know why you keep stating this as if it's a fact.

Humans have evolved with the ability to consume both meat and plants. However, this ability doesn't mean that there's an equal pre-disposition to both, the human digestive system is far better suited to consuming plants as it's much more similar to that of herbivorous animals. Where the "evolution" argument falls down most though is in looking at the numerous situations in which humans don't do what they've evolved to do. Eating meat isn't necessary for healthy living and survival, it's something we do by choice.

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1040618213006198
http://http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0309174012003385
http://www.livescience.com/23671-eating-meat-made-us-human.html
http://www.nature.com/scitable/knowledge/library/evidence-for-meat-eating-by-early-humans-103874273

No evidence. OKay.

I think a huge part of the problem is that horses (or any animal) cannot be seized unless they are actually being abused so if there is a high risk of them being abused, then nothing can be done about it until it's too late.

20-06-2014 07:59AM

risteard7 wrote: »

I'm sick of these stories!! Fukn travellers again. They should be banned from having horses! Absolute scum a hateful community!

Go on go ahead ban me for speaking my mind and the truth!

Eh, I'm not one to defend travellers, but there wasn't a single mention of them anywhere in this story. It could have been, but it could have easily been settled people too.

Super-Rush wrote: »

Why didn't all these witnesses do something?

It's easy to say that - but if there was a gang of youths who were armed and already extremely violent, then would you try and do something? And it seems like somebody already did, as it had been reported to the GSPCA.

mikemac1 · 20-06-2014 08:04AM

Saw the thread title and thought to myself it's probably Castlepark

Clicked the link, sure enough it is

Little CuChulainn · 20-06-2014 08:15AM

Diego Simeone wrote: »

Humans aren't "designed", there's no evidence to suggest they are so I don't know why you keep stating this as if it's a fact.

Humans have evolved with the ability to consume both meat and plants. However, this ability doesn't mean that there's an equal pre-disposition to both, the human digestive system is far better suited to consuming plants as it's much more similar to that of herbivorous animals. Where the "evolution" argument falls down most though is in looking at the numerous situations in which humans don't do what they've evolved to do. Eating meat isn't necessary for healthy living and survival, it's something we do by choice.

Most people accept humans evolved from apes, who are also omnivores. So I fail to see how human evolution played any part in it. There are certain nutrients that are massively available in meat and sparsely available in plants. When they are available in plants they are plants that are only indigenous to certain areas, such as soya. Do you think if everyone became a veggie tomorrow there would be sufficient soya to properly nourish people? Do you think everyone could afford it? Humans ate meat out of necessity and still do.

Even If I were to accept that meat is a luxury, there is still a big difference between sending a cow to slaughter and torturing and beating one to death. If a person cannot see the difference then they should be concerned about their own psychological state and not that of meat eaters.

meoklmrk91 wrote: »

Exactly, the laws are there, they are just very rarely enforced.

Which laws are you referring to? The animal cruelty laws from before the foundation of the state? There is no proper law in force. There is one drawn up that is awaiting enactment.

Jester252 · 20-06-2014 08:51AM

Pugsly wrote: »

No you eat it because you want to eat it and enjoy it, its not necessary. Its not that hard to find healthy alternatives to meat either.

So your point that anyone who doesn't differentiate between killing for enjoyment and killing for food isn't worth talking to just highlights the fact you're not really likely to be on the other end of any meaningful discussion yourself anyway. But like flies to shít people will thank your worthless post in their droves no doubt.

Vitamin b12, no proven natural non meat source, important for proper brain function.

If you can't see the difference between killing an animal for nutrition and killing an animal for fun, than you're not open for a discussion.

Jester252 · 20-06-2014 08:59AM

Diego Simeone wrote: »

Humans aren't "designed", there's no evidence to suggest they are so I don't know why you keep stating this as if it's a fact.

Humans have evolved with the ability to consume both meat and plants. However, this ability doesn't mean that there's an equal pre-disposition to both, the human digestive system is far better suited to consuming plants as it's much more similar to that of herbivorous animals. Where the "evolution" argument falls down most though is in looking at the numerous situations in which humans don't do what they've evolved to do. Eating meat isn't necessary for healthy living and survival, it's something we do by choice.

We didn't decided to have the ability to consume and extract nutrition from meat.

We didn't decide to need a vitamin for proper brain function thats only available via meat naturally.

We evovled to eat meat choosing not to is the ultimate first world act.

pookiesboo · 20-06-2014 09:32AM

Some of the comments on this thread are actually cringe inducing.
Clicking on a thread about a foal being beaten to death and set alight and 3 pages in its about the benefits or downside of a vegetarian diet.
Total gobbledegook even by AH standards.

MonsterCookie · 20-06-2014 09:45AM

pookiesboo wrote: »

Some of the comments on this thread are actually cringe inducing.
Clicking on a thread about a foal being beaten to death and set alight and 3 pages in its about the benefits or downside of a vegetarian diet.
Total gobbledegook even by AH standards.

Good call. Nothing to stop the hijackers starting a thread of their own but FFS, way off topic IMO.

farmerjj · 20-06-2014 10:14AM

--LOS-- wrote: »

I'm so sick of all these threads. How can you expect people to treat animals with respect when so much of our lives revolve around the unnecessary torture and killing of animals.

It's hypocritical to care about them for one thing and not for others.

So yeah, another isolated instance of animal cruelty against an animal that people generally decide to like, whoopdeedooo

What unnecessary torture? There is NO excuse in what these vermin did!

Dravokivich · 20-06-2014 10:56AM

CB19Kevo wrote: »

People just don't give a damn,Politicians/Guards all say it is a isolated incident yet how many times have we read similar accounts.
There is something very vile in this small country of ours-Tolerance for this behaviour.
Be it attacking human or animal,No one wants to tackle it.

They are regarded as isolated incidents because their are no connections found between those people directly involved in each incident. The action itself, or the social group in which they come from does not establish a connection. There'll need to be some way to suggest 2 or more incidents were planned, or communicated between the same people for a connection.

20-06-2014 11:09AM

Same thing happened in Foxford a few weeks back and there wasn't a thing about it anywhere in the media. Similar situation where a group of kids (16-20 year olds) tortured a horse and then kicked it to death.

spurious · 20-06-2014 11:11AM

Deleted User wrote: »

Same thing happened in Foxford a few weeks back and there wasn't a thing about it anywhere in the media. Similar situation where a group of kids (16-20 year olds) tortured a horse and then kicked it to death.

Brat arrives home following incident.
Parent - wherja get the blood on your Nikes lad?
Brat - I dunno
Parent - that's ok lad, did you get my fags while you were out?

'Mother says he is a great boy, good at sport and never gave any trouble'.

Cienciano · 20-06-2014 11:15AM

meoklmrk91 wrote: »

Yet another lovely story of horrendous animal cruelty, yet another case where sweet **** all will be done. How's about this, set up a dead line, 3 months from now, if any horses are found either without a microchip that is properly registered or inside the boundaries of any city in Ireland then the owners are carted off to prison for a year, if no owners can be found the horse is impounded. While I don't like the idea of horses being put down, which many probably would be, but it is better than the life they have, being out into foal year after year, grazing on scrubland, lack of veterinary treatment, being ridden by inexperienced riders in dangerous circumstances and then we have incidents like this.

I completely agree, extend it to all horses, not just ones within cities. You should have to have adequate premisis to have a horse (field and shelter), the amount of horses that are kept on a bit of wasteland with almost no grass and no shelter is a disgrace.

Amirani · 20-06-2014 11:21AM

sup_dude wrote: »

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1040618213006198
http://http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0309174012003385
http://www.livescience.com/23671-eating-meat-made-us-human.html
http://www.nature.com/scitable/knowledge/library/evidence-for-meat-eating-by-early-humans-103874273

No evidence. OKay.

I think a huge part of the problem is that horses (or any animal) cannot be seized unless they are actually being abused so if there is a high risk of them being abused, then nothing can be done about it until it's too late.

How are any of these evidence that humans were "designed", as you've been continously saying? Designed by who?

meoklmrk91 · 20-06-2014 11:23AM

Diego Simeone wrote: »

How are any of these evidence that humans were "designed", as you've been continously saying? Designed by who?

Seriously, any chance ye could take this somewhere else, this thread, as has been pointed out by several posters has already been dragged off topic enough.

Amirani · 20-06-2014 11:25AM

MonsterCookie wrote: »

Good call. Nothing to stop the hijackers starting a thread of their own but FFS, way off topic IMO.

If a mod thinks that the thread has gone too far off topic, I'm sure they'll say so.

Until then, it's probably reasonable to discuss cruelty against animals in a general sense and the necessity of it - as people have been doing.

humanji · 20-06-2014 11:30AM

Diego Simeone wrote: »

If a mod thinks that the thread has gone too far off topic, I'm sure they'll say so.

Until then, it's probably reasonable to discuss cruelty against animals in a general sense and the necessity of it - as people have been doing.

Okay, you're officially being told to get back onto the actual topic.

foggy_lad · 20-06-2014 11:34AM

Cienciano wrote: »

I completely agree, extend it to all horses, not just ones within cities. You should have to have adequate premisis to have a horse (field and shelter), the amount of horses that are kept on a bit of wasteland with almost no grass and no shelter is a disgrace.

I would have it so that only those who can afford & show they are paying for proper livery should be allowed own horses but sure all horses must be chipped already and see how well that law is enforced!

The only solution is rounding up every unchipped horse off every piece of waste ground & out of the way field around the country(where most are gept illegally as there is no permission of the landowners) & slaughter them. And do this regularly so these degenerate scum never get to keep a horse long enough to train it into a harness!

meoklmrk91 · 20-06-2014 11:48AM

foggy_lad wrote: »

I would have it so that only those who can afford & show they are paying for proper livery should be allowed own horses but sure all horses must be chipped already and see how well that law is enforced!

The only solution is rounding up every unchipped horse off every piece of waste ground & out of the way field around the country(where most are gept illegally as there is no permission of the landowners) & slaughter them. And do this regularly so these degenerate scum never get to keep a horse long enough to train it into a harness!

They would not all have to be slaughtered, while rescues are bursting at the seams there would be space for a at least some. As much as I don't like it there would most likely have to be a cull if there was a big round up across the country as we simply have too many horses and not enough good homes.

I do agree with you about driving the message home again and again, the council, gardai and ISPCA should be out there every week doing s massive roundup, it would cost a hellof a lot of money, take a hell of a lot of man power, time and effort but if the laws were enforced eventually the message is going to get through. I would much prefer these horses be culled humanely than be left in the hands of scum. But unless there is a massive public outcry Simon Coveney is going to continue denying that there is an issue and nothung will be done and we will be discussing this again in a couple of months when something awful happens yet again.

foggy_lad · 20-06-2014 12:04PM

meoklmrk91 wrote: »

They would not all have to be slaughtered, while rescues are bursting at the seams there would be space for a at least some. As much as I don't like it there would most likely have to be a cull if there was a big round up across the country as we simply have too many horses and not enough good homes.

I do agree with you about driving the message home again and again, the council, gardai and ISPCA should be out there every week doing s massive roundup, it would cost a hellof a lot of money, take a hell of a lot of man power, time and effort but if the laws were enforced eventually the message is going to get through. I would much prefer these horses be culled humanely than be left in the hands of scum. But unless there is a massive public outcry Simon Coveney is going to continue denying that there is an issue and nothung will be done and we will be discussing this again in a couple of months when something awful happens yet again.

The problem with rescues and such is that the horses in many cases will end up back in the hands of scum eventually. Unwanted horses should be dispatched humanely the same as unwanted deer in the park. Many horses in rescues go to good homes but when someone's situation changes and they can no longer afford to keep the horse(s) they have they get sold off to whoever pays and the cycle of abuse and neglect begins for that poor animal all over again!

galwayredgirl · 20-06-2014 12:26PM

Roquentin wrote: »

Thats ballybane galway. The roughest part of the city. Some kids there dont even go to school. They just loiter all day looking for trouble.

I assume that you have evidence for this general sweeping statement?

meoklmrk91 · 20-06-2014 12:26PM

foggy_lad wrote: »

The problem with rescues and such is that the horses in many cases will end up back in the hands of scum eventually. Unwanted horses should be dispatched humanely the same as unwanted deer in the park. Many horses in rescues go to good homes but when someone's situation changes and they can no longer afford to keep the horse(s) they have they get sold off to whoever pays and the cycle of abuse and neglect begins for that poor animal all over again!

Most rescues and any decent rescue worth their salt makes prospective owners sign a contract stating that if circumstances change the horse must be returned to them. Many rescues infect will not even relinquish ownership rights, they do more a longtime fostering type situation, the horse is still owned by the rescue but in the care of another person. I can assure that rescues are not part of the problem here. They are very careful about who they rehome to and have no issues taking the legal route if needed. There is no point needlessly killing horses when there is rescue space.

Foal beaten to death, then set alight by gang of kids in Galway

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