Foal beaten to death, then set alight by gang of kids in Galway

Ave Sodalis · 19-06-2014 07:36PM

Tar.Aldarion wrote: »

They show a lack of understanding. Evolution and all that jazz. Populations bodies adapt to what they eat, people don't eat a way because they are "designed" to.

This post shows a lack of basic science understanding. Evolution doesn't happen within a life time or two. We are still designed to eat meat and vegetation.

Little CuChulainn · 19-06-2014 07:38PM

My name is URL wrote: »

I'm a meat eater, but what exactly is your statement based on?

The proteins needed by a human body appear mostly in meat and very little in plant.

Pugsly wrote: »

Its not my opinion its a simple fact. Eating meat is a choice and there are healthy alternatives to meat. What do you disagree with ? The fact you have the ability to make decisions ?

I disagree with your claim that there are many healthy alternatives to meat.

Pugsly wrote: »

Its worthless because its simply dismissing someone's opinion by saying they are not worth discussing anything with. The reason is was thanked is because you were being a dick to someone who most people will disagree with. Rather than making any attempt to understand or discuss anything. People don't like thinking, they like talking and being right.

I have no problem discussing the merits of eating meat. I have an issue with someone who can't see a difference between beating a young animal to death for amusement and killing an animal for food.

Roquentin wrote: »

True. They wont get involved unless it was huge.

We should set up a petition to demand justice

Need to get the new law passed first. It's sitting on the ministers desk right next to the charity regulation one.

mosi · 19-06-2014 07:38PM

While I think that the issues surrounding the meat industry are worthy of discussion, I don't think that's right for this particular thread. This is about a particular incident which is sadly one of many similar in recent times. It's about a bunch of little psychopaths inflicting horrific cruelty on a defenceless creature just for their own sick kicks. It's part of a wider problem in this country where certain people seem to take a particular pleasure in inflicting hideous cruelty on horses.
Bringing in other issues - valid though they may be in their own context - just serves to deflect from this particular issue.

Ave Sodalis · 19-06-2014 07:39PM

Roquentin wrote: »

True. They wont get involved unless it was huge.

We should set up a petition to demand justice

Even then, they won't get involved. Huge must mean a threat to human life. Animals don't count here. Look at the case in Limerick where a vet was held off a dying horse by travelers for three hours and there wasn't a peep from the gardai

Tar.Aldarion · 19-06-2014 07:39PM

sup_dude wrote: »

This post shows a lack of basic science understanding. Evolution doesn't happen within a life time or two. We are still designed to eat meat and vegetation.

Nobody said it did. And no we are not designed. We can eat both foodstuffs and absorb things from them, you can leave completely healthy without meat as is the stance of every health organisation, including WHO.

Awkward Badger · 19-06-2014 07:39PM

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

You're equating a lack of knowledge of the origin of your meat with deliberate animal cruelty. Do you actually not see a difference?

You see, one line responses to posts with quite a bit in them are not very conductive to proper discussion. You cant really reduce it all down to one statement without just confusing things. Which is why you're now arguing against a point nobody has made.

And I'm not comparing meat eaters to the people who killed that horse. I'm talking about how its viewed. People are upset and horrified that a horse is treated cruelly and killed. People don't want to know about the deliberate cruelty they know exists in the meat industry.

--LOS-- · 19-06-2014 07:39PM

sup_dude wrote: »

It really isn't a fact. Yes, there are alternatives. No, not all of those alternatives are as good for you as meat. One of the most popular meat alternatives is soy. Soy, however, seriously messes with your hormone levels.

That is simply not true

There is a definite link between animal consumption and all kinds of illnesses like cancers, heart disease, diabetes, osteoporosis, and that's not a disputable claim. Check out all the medical research if you're interested. Eating plant-based has been proven to actually shrink and rid tumours, undo damage from heart disease, many more things too. Again this is no personal opinion or pseudo-science, this is certain stuff. There are however a lot of myths about soy.

end of the road · 19-06-2014 07:40PM

meoklmrk91 wrote: »

these little serial killers in the making.

you have no evidence for this statement, the only thing that has been proved is that some serial killers have started with animals, not that anyone who kills an animal will become a serial killer

darkpagandeath · 19-06-2014 07:46PM

--LOS-- wrote: »

That is simply not true There is a definite link between animal consumption and all kinds of illnesses like cancers, heart disease, diabetes, osteoporosis, and that's not a disputable claim. Check out all the medical research if you're interested. Eating plant-based has been proven to actually shrink and rid tumours, undo damage from heart disease, many more things too. Again this is no personal opinion or pseudo-science, this is certain stuff. There are however a lot of myths about soy.

That's more to do with additives drugs and so on used in the production of animals. highly processed food as well it's not as simple as saying "Meat bad" to much sugar to many additives.

Its like your defection of accidental insect consumption and so on so forth, Plants get energy from the sun herbivores get energy from plants carnivores get energy from herbivores. guess were I'm heading ?

fedor.2. · 19-06-2014 07:46PM

--LOS-- wrote: »

That is simply not true There is a definite link between animal consumption and all kinds of illnesses like cancers, heart disease, diabetes, osteoporosis, and that's not a disputable claim. Check out all the medical research if you're interested. Eating plant-based has been proven to actually shrink and rid tumours, undo damage from heart disease, many more things too. Again this is no personal opinion or pseudo-science, this is certain stuff. There are however a lot of myths about soy.

You were doing so well

Tar.Aldarion · 19-06-2014 07:48PM

mosi wrote: »

While I think that the issues surrounding the meat industry are worthy of discussion, I don't think that's right for this particular thread. This is about a particular incident which is sadly one of many similar in recent times. It's about a bunch of little psychopaths inflicting horrific cruelty on a defenceless creature just for their own sick kicks. It's part of a wider problem in this country where certain people seem to take a particular pleasure in inflicting hideous cruelty on horses.
Bringing in other issues - valid though they may be in their own context - just serves to deflect from this particular issue.

Perhaps it is the right place in the sense that the way we regard animals lives as having so little worth on one hand but so much on the other confuses people, especially the young. Growing up I would have been taught animals are simply to be used, eaten etc and that they are inferior, all our needs come first. It is ingrained from a young age. These children do not care as much as they should because animals are looked down upon and disrespected in general, as well as their bad nature.

There's probably been 100000 killed for us while I wrote this post
http://www.adaptt.org/killcounter.html

darkpagandeath · 19-06-2014 07:49PM

fedor.2. wrote: »

You were doing so well

Next they will be telling us that replacing a high saturated fat spread with one that has none therefore the spread lowers cholesterol.

Oh and them digestion drinks reach the gut alive.. shame your gut grows it's own private kind of bacteria that will not accept any other to grow.

plenty of stuff like this

looking_around · 19-06-2014 07:50PM

Pugsly wrote: »

No you eat it because you want to eat it and enjoy it, its not necessary. Its not that hard to find healthy alternatives to meat either.

So your point that anyone who doesn't differentiate between killing for enjoyment and killing for food isn't worth talking to just highlights the fact you're not really likely to be on the other end of any meaningful discussion yourself anyway. But like flies to shít people will thank your worthless post in their droves no doubt.

The nutrition argument needs a thread all of it's own.

My name is URL · 19-06-2014 07:57PM

sup_dude wrote: »

First and most basically, we are omnivores, as stated. Based on this, look at our digestive system compared to that of a herbivore or even a carnivore. Different, yes? And yet we share some similarities. Herbivores don't have canines (except the odd male, used to fight) but they do have the ability to digest cellulose. Carnivores have canines, as do we, but they don't have anything to digest vegetation. We have the same digestive system as other omnivores. Our entire system is based around eating meat and vegetation.

Carnivores tend to have digestive tracts that are 2-3 times their body length. Herbivores tend to have tracts that are 10-12 times their body length. Human tracts are around 10 times our body length.

The acid in our stomachs is about 20 times weaker than that of most other 'meat-eaters'.

Our saliva contains alpha-amylase (ptyalin) to predigest starches in vegetables and grains. The only other animals that contain that enzyme in their saliva are herbivores.

There are loads of other examples which suggest that the natural diet for humans is vegetarian. To say we are 'designed' to eat meat is just wrong. We may have adapted to be able to eat and digest it but that's a lot different. Most of the evolutionary changes in our physiology when it comes to digestion were brought about by the cooking of food more so than by eating meats.

Tar.Aldarion · 19-06-2014 07:57PM

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Next they will be telling us that replacing a high saturated fat spread with one that has none therefore the spread lowers cholesterol.

Oh and them digestion drinks reach the gut alive.. shame your gut grows it's own private kind of bacteria that will not accept any other to grow.

plenty of stuff like this

Diet has an affect on tumors, there's been plenty of medical research on this in the news lately, I've seen results where it slows and reduces size and so on, it's not the same as actimel, no. First I can find at a quick google but there are a lot more if you wish to read.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24510111

Little CuChulainn · 19-06-2014 07:58PM

Pugsly wrote: »

You see, one line responses to posts with quite a bit in them are not very conductive to proper discussion. You cant really reduce it all down to one statement without just confusing things. Which is why you're now arguing against a point nobody has made.

And I'm not comparing meat eaters to the people who killed that horse. I'm talking about how its viewed. People are upset and horrified that a horse is treated cruelly and killed. People don't want to know about the deliberate cruelty they know exists in the meat industry.

If there was no intention to equate them then why bring it up in the first place? If I could remind you of the post that started it.

--LOS-- wrote: »

I'm so sick of all these threads. How can you expect people to treat animals with respect when so much of our lives revolve around the unnecessary torture and killing of animals.

It's hypocritical to care about them for one thing and not for others.

The poster is clearly equating this incident with the meat industry as a whole which, to me, is a ludicrous position.

I also disagree with your own claim that people don't want to know about the cruelty that can exist in the meat industry.

end of the road · 19-06-2014 07:58PM

risteard7 wrote: »

speaking the truth!

you don't even know the meaning of that statement, and as for the rest of that childish rabel rabel rant

Pumpkinseeds · 19-06-2014 08:00PM

Shocking incident and it's scary that almost every week there seems to be at least one horrendous act of incredible animal cruelty in the news. Something is very wrong in our society and if it isn't tackled and taken seriously by the powers that be we are going to have a very serious problem on our hands in years to come. Anyone who can torture an animal has series mental health issues.

aidoh · 19-06-2014 08:02PM

looking_around wrote: »

The nutrition argument needs a thread all of it's own.

As does the vegetarian / 'humane' slaughter of livestock argument because this is a thread about a horrible case of animal cruelty, not one of whether or not it's cruel to kill and eat domesticated animals.

I don't know what would drive anyone to killing a baby horse.
One of the worst I ever read was from a few years ago, where some kids had 'fed' a banger to a swan and blew half of its head off.
Fvcking violent little weirdos.

meoklmrk91 · 19-06-2014 08:03PM

end of the road wrote: »

you have no evidence for this statement, the only thing that has been proved is that some serial killers have started with animals, not that anyone who kills an animal will become a serial killer

Well lets be honest here, while they may not become serial killers, there is still something wrong with them, anyone be it child or adult who enjoys tourturing living beings is most likely not going to become a very productive member of society. It shows a dangerous lack of empathy, this was their idea of fun.

So no I don't have any evidence that they will become serial killers, but I think i can all make a judgement that they won't be working for amnesty international or joining the peace corp anytime soon. I have known people who have committed crimes similar but to a lesser degree at various points in their adolescence, they do not grow up to be nice people.

Ave Sodalis · 19-06-2014 08:04PM

My name is URL wrote: »

Carnivores tend to have digestive tracts that are 2-3 times their body length. Herbivores tend to have tracts that are 10-12 times their body length. Human tracts are around 10 times our body length.

The acid in our stomachs is about 20 times weaker than that of most other 'meat-eaters'.

Our saliva contains alpha-amylase (ptyalin) to predigest starches in vegetables and grains. The only other animals that contain that enzyme in their saliva are herbivores.

There are loads of other examples which suggest that the natural diet for humans is vegetarian. To say we are 'designed' to eat meat is just wrong. We may have adapted to be able to eat and digest it but that's a lot different. Most of the evolutionary changes in our physiology when it comes to digestion were brought about by the cooking of food more so than by eating meats.

Yes, we have similarities to both... but we effectively are both combined with some bits missing from each. Ptyalin is found in other omnivores too, such as pigs. If we compare omnivore to carnivore and herbivore, we are more like herbivores, but you'll find if we compare omnivore to omnivore, there's even less differences.

wendell borton · 19-06-2014 08:05PM

--LOS-- wrote: »

isolated in the scheme of things yeah. This is a thread about the cruelty towards one animal, why is that animal so special, when's there 150 billion dying every year to feed us.

Those animals are well treated for the most part until they get a bolt to the head, as happy animals are yummier animals.

risteard7 · 19-06-2014 08:12PM

end of the road wrote: »

you don't even know the meaning of that statement, and as for the rest of that childish rabel rabel rant

Be Quiet

Roquentin · 19-06-2014 10:53PM

meoklmrk91 wrote: »

Well lets be honest here, while they may not become serial killers, there is still something wrong with them, anyone be it child or adult who enjoys tourturing living beings is most likely not going to become a very productive member of society. It shows a dangerous lack of empathy, this was their idea of fun.

So no I don't have any evidence that they will become serial killers, but I think i can all make a judgement that they won't be working for amnesty international or joining the peace corp anytime soon. I have known people who have committed crimes similar but to a lesser degree at various points in their adolescence, they do not grow up to be nice people.

Some serial killers come from good backgrounds. Ted bundy, jeffrey dahmer, harold shipman....

And the mass murdering gun manic is statistically a crime of the privileged white people.

CB19Kevo · 19-06-2014 11:29PM

People just don't give a damn,Politicians/Guards all say it is a isolated incident yet how many times have we read similar accounts.
There is something very vile in this small country of ours-Tolerance for this behaviour.
Be it attacking human or animal,No one wants to tackle it.

mosi · 19-06-2014 11:45PM

Tar.Aldarion wrote: »

Perhaps it is the right place in the sense that the way we regard animals lives as having so little worth on one hand but so much on the other confuses people, especially the young. Growing up I would have been taught animals are simply to be used, eaten etc and that they are inferior, all our needs come first. It is ingrained from a young age. These children do not care as much as they should because animals are looked down upon and disrespected in general, as well as their bad nature.

There's probably been 100000 killed for us while I wrote this post
http://www.adaptt.org/killcounter.html

As I said, it's a debate well worth having...but I still don't see the merit of having it here, particularly the way some other posters have approached it. Some - and I'm not saying you - have rushed in to point out the problems in the food production sector and have said that there is no difference between those issues and the monstrous act inflicted upon that poor foal. Introducing the topic in that manner here veers dangerously close to justifying the incident under discussion here, even if that is not the intention. Yes, there are welfare issues in food production that seriously need to be addressed. However, there's nothing to be gained by dismissing one act of cruelty because of others that happen elsewhere.

Anyway, back on topic...

The savage torture of a defenceless baby animal is beyond the pale in any context. We really need to start enforcing existing laws on animal welfare, and creating more inspector positions, possibly even on a volunteer basis. Community animal welfare officers, people trusted within communities where the problem is greatest, could also be a help in terms of enforcement and education. A national gelding programme could help to reduce numbers. Stiffer penalties for abuse should apply, regardless of age. The ultimate aim should be to ensure that horses are not kept by unsuitable owners and in unsuitable environments where these incidents frequently happen.
If we can start to get things right with the day to day, visible acts of neglect and cruelty, we may even stand a chance at improving welfare standards in other animal related sectors.

The Th!ng · 19-06-2014 11:52PM

Those that did this should not be considered human and deserve nothing more than a bullet in the back of their heads.

meoklmrk91 · 20-06-2014 12:55AM

Roquentin wrote: »

Some serial killers come from good backgrounds. Ted bundy, jeffrey dahmer, harold shipman....

And the mass murdering gun manic is statistically a crime of the privileged white people.

Absolutely, I never said anything about anyone's background though. I just stated that children who commit acts like this do not grow up to be nice people, adults who commit crimes like this are not nice people. They come from all walks of life, from the very rich to the very poor in my own experience. Anyone who tortures a living creature, knowing that it is causing them pain and anguish, lacks empathy for other living beings.

meoklmrk91 · 20-06-2014 01:06AM

mosi wrote: »

As I said, it's a debate well worth having...but I still don't see the merit of having it here, particularly the way some other posters have approached it. Some - and I'm not saying you - have rushed in to point out the problems in the food production sector and have said that there is no difference between those issues and the monstrous act inflicted upon that poor foal. Introducing the topic in that manner here veers dangerously close to justifying the incident under discussion here, even if that is not the intention. Yes, there are welfare issues in food production that seriously need to be addressed. However, there's nothing to be gained by dismissing one act of cruelty because of others that happen elsewhere.

Anyway, back on topic...

The savage torture of a defenceless baby animal is beyond the pale in any context. We really need to start enforcing existing laws on animal welfare, and creating more inspector positions, possibly even on a volunteer basis. Community animal welfare officers, people trusted within communities where the problem is greatest, could also be a help in terms of enforcement and education. A national gelding programme could help to reduce numbers. Stiffer penalties for abuse should apply, regardless of age. The ultimate aim should be to ensure that horses are not kept by unsuitable owners and in unsuitable environments where these incidents frequently happen.
If we can start to get things right with the day to day, visible acts of neglect and cruelty, we may even stand a chance at improving welfare standards in other animal related sectors.

Exactly, the laws are there, they are just very rarely enforced. In many cases where a horse is being neglegted or abused, it is very easy for the owner to say that the animal is not theirs. And despite their being a law that all horses must be microchipped have passports, because this is not enforced, there is no way for the authorities to prove otherwise so they get off scot free. There is no one to enforce this law so it is easy to get away with not microchiping and having a passport for your horse.

From 2015 microchipping will become mandatory for dogs. This is great but I suspect that very similarly there will be no one to enforce it and therefore it will have no teeth. As present the only people who microchip their dogs are breeders who a registering their dogs with IKC, you cannot register a dog without a microchip number. And responsible pet owners. This will most likely continue to be the case.

We need at the very LEAST, an ISPCA inspector per county, at present there is not, they are very thinly spread. The microchipping laws for both horses and dogs should be seriously enforced, that way no one can deny ownership when an act of cruelty is being committed. We need to ban sulky racing, it is dangerous for not just the horses but other road users and if it keeps going on then someone is going to be killed. And the law regarding horses being banned within city limits needs to be enforced as well. In my own opinion this is the very least that needs to be done here.

Galwayguy35 · 20-06-2014 01:18AM

meoklmrk91 wrote: »

Exactly, the laws are there, they are just very rarely enforced. In many cases where a horse is being neglegted or abused, it is very easy for the owner to say that the animal is not theirs. And despite their being a law that all horses must be microchipped have passports, because this is not enforced, there is no way for the authorities to prove otherwise so they get off scot free. There is no one to enforce this law so it is easy to get away with not microchiping and having a passport for your horse.

From 2015 microchipping will become mandatory for dogs. This is great but I suspect that very similarly there will be no one to enforce it and therefore it will have no teeth. As present the only people who microchip their dogs are breeders who a registering their dogs with IKC, you cannot register a dog without a microchip number. And responsible pet owners. This will most likely continue to be the case.

We need at the very LEAST, an ISPCA inspector per county, at present there is not, they are very thinly spread. The microchipping laws for both horses and dogs should be seriously enforced, that way no one can deny ownership when an act of cruelty is being committed. We need to ban sulky racing, it is dangerous for not just the horses but other road users and if it keeps going on then someone is going to be killed. And the law regarding horses being banned within city limits needs to be enforced as well. In my own opinion this is the very least that needs to be done here.

Sounds good but try getting Travellers to obey those rules.

Foal beaten to death, then set alight by gang of kids in Galway

Comments