Water meter protests

end of the road · 19-06-2014 05:15PM

Lemlin wrote: »

That's the general problem in this country though. Nobody wants to pay their way.

As I said on another thread, I worked with a lad who is typical of many people I know. He drank at least four coffees a day (one in the morning pre work, two breaks and then one when leaving), ate in the office canteen twice a day and smoked at least ten a day.

Yet he'd sit there and complain about not being able to afford a house with the rest of us who were eating our prepacked lunches, not smoking and drinking water from the office water cooler.

people pay their way, whether it be tax, buying food, ESB bill, so on

Lemlin · 19-06-2014 05:18PM

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Irish water do not have shareholders ?

Yes and the aim is that they will fund the costs of the water system.

end of the road · 19-06-2014 05:19PM

Lemlin wrote: »

Who said anything about "proffiting"?

the private companies when the water is privatized and prices triple on a yearly basis and the "regulator" will continuely allow it, thats even if we have a regulator.

Lemlin · 19-06-2014 05:20PM

Tony EH wrote: »

You know, that's probably one of the dumbest things that's been said yet on the thread.

In general, people are fine with paying their way, so long as it's fair.

What people object to is being ripped off continually and in this country we have a terrible history of that.

Oh, you're back, I'm still waiting for you to respond to my earlier question. Obviously you're thinking you can jump back in now and all will be forgotten.

And what is unfair about paying for water? I pay for it twice and I've no problem with it.

People all over the EU and the world pay for it.

I have yet to see a political party come up with a feasible plan to stop us having a budget deficit each year also.

darkpagandeath · 19-06-2014 05:21PM

Tony EH wrote: »

You know, that's probably one of the dumbest things that's been said yet on the thread.

In general, people are fine with paying their way, so long as it's fair.

What people object to is being ripped off continually and in this country we have a terrible history of that.

That an people have a sneaking suspicion Irish water will be privatised eventually, Then we be gouged for profits. They can say legislation this and that but another government can change that.

Lemlin wrote: »

Yes and the aim is that they will fund the costs of the water system.

I see, Were do you find people willing to invest with no prospect of making any profit ?

Tony EH · 19-06-2014 05:22PM

Lemlin wrote: »

Oh, you're back,

I never went away

Lemlin · 19-06-2014 05:22PM

end of the road wrote: »

the private companies when the water is privatized and prices triple on a yearly basis and the "regulator" will continuely allow it, thats even if we have a regulator.

And you could be knocked over by a train in the morning. You're talking about things which have not happened and may not happen.

You're trying to create fear by saying water charges could rise to €750. If prices tripled on a yearly basis, most people would just source private wells which cost around €2k.

Also, what would be so bad about privitisation? It would take the cost of our water system away from the exchequer. That's a cost for me that I currently get absolutely nothing from.

Lemlin · 19-06-2014 05:24PM

Tony EH wrote: »

I never went away

You were just afraid to answer the question because it totally undermines your entire argument.

Are you a politician?

Lemlin · 19-06-2014 05:25PM

darkpagandeath wrote: »

That an people have a sneaking suspicion Irish water will be privatised eventually, Then we be gouged for profits. They can say legislation this and that but another government can change that.

I see, Were do you find people willing to invest with no prospect of making any profit ?

A "sneaking suspicion" is all it is as nothing is known. As I've said above, I'd love privitisation. I'm currently paying for a water system that I gain no benefit from. Plenty of people are in the same boat, pardon the pun.

Also, if a company did triple prices, the prices would be extortionate and people would merely move to private wells.

Tony EH · 19-06-2014 05:26PM

Lemlin wrote: »

You were just afraid to answer the question because it totally undermines your entire argument.

Are you a politician?

You were answered.

I can't help you if you cannot understand the answer.

end of the road · 19-06-2014 05:28PM

Lemlin wrote: »

what would be so bad about privitisation? It would take the cost of our water system away from the exchequer.

really? has it done so in the uk for example? or is it the case that no doubt in some way the government subsidize the private utility companies? because surely screwing the customer isn't the only way they get such large proffits? privatization is an evil we must not allow whatever the cost, its all about proffit/benefiting the governments little friends at the expence of the customer

Lemlin wrote: »

That's a cost for me that I currently get absolutely nothing from.

nor me, but i'd rather i pay for it via the state then pay for it via the state giving money to a private company

Lemlin · 19-06-2014 05:28PM

Tony EH wrote: »

You were answered.

I can't help you if you cannot understand the answer.

My post:

No I don't. You're still skirting around the issue because you have no response. I also asked for a simple "yes or no" answer.

The present system has rural dwellers paying twice by your reckoning - once through taxes and once through direct charges.

Urban dwellers only pay through their taxes so pay once.

So it is unfair that one group pay twice while the other group only pay once.

You know that and that is why you refuse to answer a simple question about it.

Is the present water system, where no direct water charges are paid by urban dwellers, not grossly unfair on rural people who pay direct water charges plus for water through their taxes?

Perhaps you could repost your response because I certainly don't remember seeing it.

Tony EH · 19-06-2014 05:29PM

Lemlin wrote: »

I'd love privitisation. I'm currently paying for a water system that I gain no benefit from.

Well, you should be delighted then, cos you'll get your way.

You'll probably STILL be delighted when you're paying standing charges too, because you can bet your life that'll be on the way as well.

darkpagandeath · 19-06-2014 05:30PM

Lemlin wrote: »

A "sneaking suspicion" is all it is as nothing is known. As I've said above, I'd love privitisation. I'm currently paying for a water system that I gain no benefit from.

Alot of people are the same. Also, if a company did triple prices, the prices would be extortionate and people would merely move to private wells.

You know full well most people will not have an option to drill for water and put in a septic tank, A vast proportion will just have to pay up. The government has given a figure to start with, And cleverly left it up to a regulator to control the price rise. They have said water charges will go up if they cannot generate the revenue they need.

Tony EH · 19-06-2014 05:30PM

Lemlin wrote: »

Perhaps you could repost your response because I certainly don't remember seeing it.

Read back over the thread again then.

Uriel. · 19-06-2014 05:31PM

end of the road wrote: »

the private companies when the water is privatized and prices triple on a yearly basis and the "regulator" will continuely allow it, thats even if we have a regulator.

that's really not something to be overly concerned about. I would be more worried about the doubling in social welfare payment rates that will happen in 2016 and the cost of the mobile phone user licence system.

These are things that people should really start to worry about.

Lemlin · 19-06-2014 05:33PM

end of the road wrote: »

really? has it done so in the uk for example? or is it the case that no doubt in some way the government subsidize the private utility companies? because surely screwing the customer isn't the only way they get such large proffits? privatization is an evil we must not allow whatever the cost, its all about proffit/benefiting the governments little friends at the expence of the customer

nor me, but i'd rather i pay for it via the state then pay for it via the state giving money to a private company

Again, you are talking about something that may never happen as if it is fact. All of what you state above is fiction. You have no proof it will ever happen.

These are the same ramblings we continually get from anti water charge protestors.

What is your feasible plan for balancing the books in this country then? The problem you see is that nobody seems to have one.

As I said earlier, we therefore then need to increase taxes or cut services. Seeing as there is huge outrage every time services are cut, there is only one option left.

end of the road · 19-06-2014 05:33PM

Lemlin wrote: »

I'd love privitisation.

really? you'd like to pay twice but a lot more? 1 for your own water scheme, 2 extra tax, 3 which will go to the private companies along with the customers being screwed.

Lemlin wrote: »

I'm currently paying for a water system that I gain no benefit from.

privatization won't change that, you will just pay more for a system you don't benefit from

Lemlin wrote: »

if a company did triple prices, the prices would be extortionate and people would merely move to private wells.

you'd think, yet in the UK people haven't moved to private wells

darkpagandeath · 19-06-2014 05:35PM

Uriel. wrote: »

that's really not something to be overly concerned about. I would be more worried about the doubling in social welfare payment rates that will happen in 2016 and the cost of the mobile phone user licence system.

These are things that people should really start to worry about.

link heard this a few times now ?

Lemlin · 19-06-2014 05:36PM

Tony EH wrote: »

Read back over the thread again then.

Your initial response was:

Tony EH wrote: »

Yes, we do. We ALL pay money to the tax take.

There was and is NO SUCH THING AS "FREE" WATER. It was never "free".

We need to move away from that kind of bollocks talk.

I'm not "skirting away" from any issue and your perceived "unfairness" is not going to go away with metered usage. You'll STILL be paying the tax. It's not going to go down. Metered usage isn't replacing tax funding. It's augmenting it.

You'll still be paying twice. So will I.

So I'll take it that you agree with my point that the present system is grossly unfair on rural dwellers and moving to direct water charges is fair as it will see both parties pay twice.

Therefore why are you arguing against water charges? The new water charges are the fairer system by your own agreement above.

end of the road · 19-06-2014 05:37PM

Uriel. wrote: »

that's really not something to be overly concerned about. I would be more worried about the doubling in social welfare payment rates that will happen in 2016 and the cost of the mobile phone user licence system.

These are things that people should really start to worry about.

we can worry about them along with privatization

Lemlin · 19-06-2014 05:38PM

end of the road wrote: »

really? you'd like to pay twice but a lot more? 1 for your own water scheme, 2 extra tax, 3 which will go to the private companies along with the customers being screwed.

privatization won't change that, you will just pay more for a system you don't benefit from

you'd think, yet in the UK people haven't moved to private wells

And King Kong might attack in the morning and we'll all be dead.

Earlier in the day I had a anti water charge poster stating the UK have a great system with rates, now you are stating the opposite?

Ye lads really need to make your minds up. The funniest thing is that Sinn Fein are increasing rates in NI, and have done since 2011, yet are arguing the water charge up here. They ahve already agreed next year's increase.

Another Labour. When they get into government, you'll see what they really deliver then.

Tony EH · 19-06-2014 05:39PM

Lemlin wrote: »

Your initial response was:

There was more than one response.

end of the road · 19-06-2014 05:40PM

Lemlin wrote: »

Again, you are talking about something that may never happen as if it is fact. All of what you state above is fiction. You have no proof it will ever happen.

no, were discussing a hypothetical situation, but lets face it when we discuss privatization our nearist neighbour is a perfect example of why it should never be done, our government and relevant people just cannot be trusted to look after our interests, and neither can private monopolies, i'd rather a state monopoly then a private monopoly

Uriel. · 19-06-2014 05:40PM

darkpagandeath wrote: »

link heard this a few times now ?

I don't have a link, sorry.

darkpagandeath · 19-06-2014 05:42PM

Uriel. wrote: »

I don't have a link, sorry.

Then how do you know the rates will double ?

Lemlin · 19-06-2014 05:42PM

Tony EH wrote: »

There was more than one response.

Yes and none of them answered the question.

Uriel. · 19-06-2014 05:42PM

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Then how do you know the rates will double ?

I know they will.

end of the road · 19-06-2014 05:43PM

Lemlin wrote: »

And King Kong might attack in the morning and we'll all be dead.

Earlier in the day I had a anti water charge poster stating the UK have a great system with rates, now you are stating the opposite?

Ye lads really need to make your minds up. The funniest thing is that Sinn Fein are increasing rates in NI, and have done since 2011, yet are arguing the water charge up here. They ahve already agreed next year's increase.

Another Labour. When they get into government, you'll see what they really deliver then.

SF or the water charge protesters have nothing to do with me, they might be happy with having a UK system thats fine, i'm not

Lemlin · 19-06-2014 05:45PM

end of the road wrote: »

SF or the water charge protesters have nothing to do with me, they might be happy with having a UK system thats fine, i'm not

Well I'd be more than happy with privisation. Take a cost I get nothing from away from the exchequer.

If any people are unhappy with the service, they can source a private well. That's what I'd be telling anyone who refuses to pay their bill also.

If you want something, you pay for it.

Water meter protests

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