Drink Driving

Menas · 15-06-2014 12:22PM

UCDVet wrote: »

I'm not saying these other things are 'also' bad. As in 'less than perfect'. I'm saying there are studies that show they are AS BAD as drink driving.

Which means our society has some serious cognitive dissidence....having a few pints and driving is as dangerous as being upset and driving, or being tired and driving, or being old and driving. That's statistically a fact (according to several studies). So either they should all be equally illegal or equally legal. We should spend the same amount of resources advocating against one of them as we do the rest. We should vilify everyone who does any of those things, or we shouldn't. Our attitudes should reflect the reality of the situation.

So you suggest that if we cant legislate against, for example, kids crying in a car then we should not legislate against drinking driving.

Nonsense argument.

UCDVet · 15-06-2014 12:31PM

Trigger Happy wrote: »

So you suggest that if we cant legislate against, for example, kids crying in a car then we should not legislate against drinking driving.

Nonsense argument.

I agree. Thankfully, that's not my argument.

First, we can legislate against a lot of these things. Some laws are more difficult to *enforce* than others. But we can be logically consistent. Beyond that....we already have laws that are completely out of whack.

Texting is MUCH MORE dangerous than being drunk while driving. Studies show up to SIX TIMES more dangerous than being drunk. So, the penalty should be....I dunno....six times more than drink driving, right?

http://www.rsa.ie/Documents/Road%20Safety/Leaflets/Leaf_booklets/RSA_Mobile_DL.pdf
According to this, the fine for using a phone is 60 euro. That's it. Don't fight it, don't go to court, just pay 60 euro.

http://www.rsa.ie/en/RSA/Road-Safety/Campaigns/Current-road-safety-campaigns/Drink-Driving/Drink-Driving-Penalties/

If the driver (any category, any vehicle) is tested at the 50mg limit and they are over the limit they will be issued an on the spot of fixed penalty notice, receive a fine of €200 and 3 penalty points

Crime A and Crime B. Crime A is SIX TIMES MORE DANGEROUS.

But the penalty for crime B includes a fine that is 3x the size and includes penalty points.

And nobody has a problem with this. Because we were all raised to think that 'Drink driving is evil' but cell phones, well, they're pretty handy. So despite being illegal, I know lots and lots of people who admit that they 'sometimes' use a cell phone while driving. And nobody thinks they are evil people who want to die, or don't value life or anything else. But we say those things (even in this thread, you can find examples) about people who drink a pint or two and drive home.

Our laws and attitudes are irrational and do not reflect reality.

The Drunken Destrier · 15-06-2014 12:45PM

The people who keep saying 2/3 pints in them didn't make a difference when they drove are the ones who just haven't crashed yet. If we (and they) are lucky, they'll only hurt themselves, and not another innocent and sensible road user.
Also, I couldn't be more annoyed by the typical excuse of the need for culchies to socialise at the local, which might be miles from their homes. I mean Jesus, it couldn't be more obvious! Just don't drink alcohol then! You socialise with your friends, not a flipping pint. Bring a bottle home then if you can't live without it. Some people are unbearably stupid.

15-06-2014 12:58PM

I'd drive after 2 or 3 pints every now and then. Mostly if we stop in for a few in one of the locals on the way back from a match etc early in the evening (wouldn't risk it late at night due to increased risk of bagging).

Some major exaggeration on the effects of small amounts of drink on this thread..I wouldn't drive after a sip etc and people saying anyone who looks at a drink and drives should jump into a bath with a toaster :rolleyes:

Most of the auld lads who drink in my local drop into town everyday for milk and the paper and have their two or three pints before driving home. They all arrive and leave at different times and need their car with them for other things. Totally impractical for these to get taxis as is being suggested by the city slickers on this thread that have no idea about rural living.

Pumpkinseeds · 15-06-2014 01:14PM

Some neighbours of mine are very heavy drinkers and would have a heavy session in the house until maybe 3 in the morning, go to bed and then be out driving by lunchtime. It's a standard thing with them and they've been doing it for at least 30 years. I wonder what the percentage of people driving under the influence the morning after the night before is.

15-06-2014 01:20PM

Pumpkinseeds wrote: »

Some neighbours of mine are very heavy drinkers and would have a heavy session in the house until maybe 3 in the morning, go to bed and then be out driving by lunchtime. It's a standard thing with them and they've been doing it for at least 30 years. I wonder what the percentage of people driving under the influence the morning after the night before is.

Driving at lunch after finishing up at 3 isn't bad. Loads of people would drive to work in the morning after a night on the batter!

I bet a lot of those saying they would never drink and drive do it regularly the next morning.

Little CuChulainn · 15-06-2014 01:28PM

Badly Drunk Boy wrote: »

I don't drive so it's not an issue for me (although I've been a 'drunken' cyclist on a few occasions).

That is also illegal

UCDVet · 15-06-2014 01:37PM

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

That is also illegal

Isn't it also illegal to be drunk in a public place?

Little CuChulainn · 15-06-2014 01:46PM

UCDVet wrote: »

Isn't it also illegal to be drunk in a public place?

Only to the extent that you are a danger to yourself or others. The same caveat basically applies to drink driving and drunk cycling in that it has to affect your ability to control the vehicle.

umop.episdn · 15-06-2014 01:48PM

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

Only to the extent that you are a danger to yourself or others. The same caveat basically applies to drink driving and drunk cycling in that it has to affect your ability to control the vehicle.

Incorrect. No caveat applies to drink driving

Pumpkinseeds · 15-06-2014 01:50PM

Zahir Thoughtless Lap wrote: »

Driving at lunch after finishing up at 3 isn't bad. Loads of people would drive to work in the morning after a night on the batter!

I bet a lot of those saying they would never drink and drive do it regularly the next morning.

Around December drinking on a Sunday night then driving to work for 7am would be the norm with them too.

Little CuChulainn · 15-06-2014 01:50PM

umop.episdn wrote: »

Incorrect. No caveat applies to drink driving

Yes it does. Section 4 (1)

A person shall not drive or attempt to drive a mechanically propelled vehicle in a public place while he or she is under the influence of an intoxicant to such an extent as to be incapable of having proper control of the vehicle.

There are also stated limits over which you cannot drive but the basic offence is still there.

umop.episdn · 15-06-2014 01:53PM

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

Yes it does. Section 4 (1)

There are also stated limits over which you cannot drive but the basic offence is still there.

The limits are the law, if you are over those limits, good luck un court trying to argue you are still able to drive

Little CuChulainn · 15-06-2014 01:56PM

umop.episdn wrote: »

The limits are the law, if you are over those limits, good luck un court trying to argue you are still able to drive

Why would I argue that? The basic drink driving offence is as I stated it. It must affect your driving. The limits set a figure above which it is automatically accepted you are unable to have proper control of your driving. What exactly are you arguing with me about?

umop.episdn · 15-06-2014 02:11PM

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

Why would I argue that? The basic drink driving offence is as I stated it. It must affect your driving. The limits set a figure above which it is automatically accepted you are unable to have proper control of your driving. What exactly are you arguing with me about?

The way you've worded it.
Perhaps you could have 2 pints & for all intents & purposes, it does not affect your driving ability. But, you are over the legal limit, so you are breaking the law

Zed Bank · 15-06-2014 02:13PM

Been in a car with a drink driver myself on a couple of occasion (sober myself) and it's not a very pleasant experience.

Little CuChulainn · 15-06-2014 02:15PM

umop.episdn wrote: »

The way you've worded it.
Perhaps you could have 2 pints & for all intents & purposes, it does not affect your driving ability. But, you are over the legal limit, so you are breaking the law

It does affect your driving ability. That's the reason the limits are set. They are set at the level after which it is considered your ability to drive is compromised.

c_man · 15-06-2014 02:16PM

It's been interesting to see the emergence of the "Don't drive while stoned" ads.

Little CuChulainn · 15-06-2014 02:28PM

c_man wrote: »

It's been interesting to see the emergence of the "Don't drive while stoned" ads.

They already have them

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F8gFfObkGHc

umop.episdn · 15-06-2014 02:29PM

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

It does affect your driving ability. That's the reason the limits are set. They are set at the level after which it is considered your ability to drive is compromised.

levels are set differently all over the world.
If a level was to be set at which your driving would become compromised, universally it would have to be zero %

c_man · 15-06-2014 02:30PM

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

They already have them

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F8gFfObkGHc

Yeah, that's what I said

Galwayguy35 · 15-06-2014 02:36PM

My brother was crashed into by a drunk driver on New Years Eve back in 1995, the guy got out of the car and could barely stand up.

All the neighbours came out and told my brother not to call
the Guards because yer man had a wife and kids but he did.

It was the right thing to do.

Zed Bank · 15-06-2014 02:42PM

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

My brother was crashed into by a drunk driver on New Years Eve back in 1995, the guy got out of the car and could barely stand up.

All the neighbours came out and told my brother not to call
the Guards because yer man had a wife and kids but he did.

It was the right thing to do.

But what if he went out and drunk driven again? The next person might not be so lucky.

EDIT: On closer inspection, I realised I read the last part wrong.

Herb Powell · 15-06-2014 02:44PM

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

That is also illegal

And it's mad fucckin craic. I would never drink and drive, but regularly cycle home hammered. Absolutely no comparison in terms of danger.

Galwayguy35 · 15-06-2014 02:48PM

Zed Bank wrote: »

But what if he went out and drunk driven again? The next person might not be so lucky.

Did you read what I wrote?

osarusan · 15-06-2014 02:53PM

Zahir Thoughtless Lap wrote: »

the city slickers on this thread that have no idea about rural living.

I grew up in rural east Clare and I think anybody who drinks and drives should go to prison. First time, accident or not. Prison.

The argument that they have no choice but to drink and drive is sickening.

Larry Wildman · 15-06-2014 02:56PM

What about Kevin Myers' solution (put forward a number of years ago)? If you're drunk, you must drive with your hazards on and at no more than (say) 15mph.

There's also a major urban / rural divide here. The majority of convictions are in Dublin but the fact of the matter is that it's people driving from (say) Galway to Oranmore lamped that cause carnage rather than some fella with four pints on him nursing the car from Stephen's Green to Dundrum.

umop.episdn · 15-06-2014 02:59PM

Larry Wildman wrote: »

What about Kevin Myers' solution (put forward a number of years ago)?

If you're drunk, you must drive with your hazards on and at no more than (say) 15mph.

"in nosh drunk! Where da fck are me hazard lights? I can't sew nothing but this white line in the middle of the road, think I'll uze dat to guide me home, am I supposed to be doing 15 or 55? Ara, it'll be grand, I'll add the 2 together & do 80, hic! Altogether"

Jumboman · 15-06-2014 03:39PM

Pumpkinseeds wrote: »

Some neighbours of mine are very heavy drinkers and would have a heavy session in the house until maybe 3 in the morning, go to bed and then be out driving by lunchtime. It's a standard thing with them and they've been doing it for at least 30 years. I wonder what the percentage of people driving under the influence the morning after the night before is.

The drink drive limit is now so low that if you've only had a few pints the night before you can be over the limit the next day.

Its political correctness gone mad.

Mint Sauce · 15-06-2014 03:48PM

Zahir Thoughtless Lap wrote: »

I'd drive after 2 or 3 pints every now and then. Mostly if we stop in for a few in one of the locals on the way back from a match etc early in the evening (wouldn't risk it late at night due to increased risk of bagging).

Some major exaggeration on the effects of small amounts of drink on this thread..I wouldn't drive after a sip etc and people saying anyone who looks at a drink and drives should jump into a bath with a toaster :rolleyes:

Most of the auld lads who drink in my local drop into town everyday for milk and the paper and have their two or three pints before driving home. They all arrive and leave at different times and need their car with them for other things. Totally impractical for these to get taxis as is being suggested by the city slickers on this thread that have no idea about rural living.

Weather its 2 or 3 in the morning, or 2 or 3 in the afternoon should make no difference.

I wont even get into my car the next morning if I have been out. As for rural living, when I'm at home for the weekend, its €15-20 for a taxi home. I pay it, stay at a friends/cousins house, or simply dont drink. As for the Oul Lads, could they not buy a few bottle along with the paper and milk, and drink it in their own home.

Drink Driving

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