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Drink Driving

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    #272
    osarusan
    Registered Users Posts: 16,553 ✭✭✭✭osarusan


    Zahir Thoughtless Lap wrote: »
    People driving after 2 or 3 pints ads not an issue. Drunk drivers are the issue and pestering and putting hardship on people having a few is simply unfair.

    Yeah, the poor crayturs who get pestered when all they want to do is drink and drive are the real victims here.


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    #273
    UCDVet
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,894 ✭✭✭UCDVet


    danrua01 wrote: »
    Well tough, absolute best way too prevent drink driving. What about having joints before you drive? Or taking a few E tabs? Can't do it cos it's illegal, some people may not like that solution but no one's complaining about it.

    Would you apply the same logic to makeup, cellphones, and fast food?


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    #274
    Tarzana2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,553 ✭✭✭Tarzana2


    UCDVet wrote: »
    Would you apply the same logic to makeup, cellphones, and fast food?

    Yes.


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    #275
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Tarzana2 wrote: »
    Yes.

    We should probably ban radios, passengers, crying children in particular too......

    People are distracted on the roads constantly, many things people do daily are worse than the effect of a couple pints yet the same people who allow themselves be distracted go ballistic and at even the suggestion of driving after smelling a pint.


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    #276
    Bridge93
    Registered Users Posts: 7,018 ✭✭✭Bridge93


    Drink driving is never the answer. If you have no method of getting home then tough, don't drink. It's very simple. If your '2 or 3' pints are so important to you, go live somewhere with ways of getting home other than driving. Nobody is forcing you to live in rural, isolated areas. If drinking regularly is so important to you then you have to make allowances.
    Drink in your home, book a taxi, designated driver whatever. This pop in for a few idea is a pretty pathetic excuse.

    I have no sympathy for drink drivers, only those on the road with them.


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    #277
    Venus In Furs
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,028 ✭✭✭Venus In Furs


    Zahir Thoughtless Lap wrote: »
    We should probably ban radios, passengers, crying children in particular too......

    People are distracted on the roads constantly, many things people do daily are worse than the effect of a couple pints
    Ah the auld clutching at straws for moral equivalency. Always amusing.

    "I sentence you to six months' imprisonment for radio-distracted driving."

    Having children/passengers in the car is usually necessary. Come on, do better.

    What are the things people do daily that are worse than the effect of a couple of pints? (Note the deliberate dowplaying of three or four pints with something vague like "a couple").


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    #278
    Bruthal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,422 ✭✭✭✭Bruthal


    UCDVet wrote: »
    To clarify, I meant someone that raced professionally who had a few drinks attempting to drive home in a safe fashion; not someone who was drunk *and* racing.

    Anyway, nobody can reasonably argue that alcohol doesn't make someone a worse driver. But at the same time, there is a near endless list of things that make someone a worse driver. A great driver, made worse due to some external factor is still better than an average driver under optimal conditions.

    Yes but in the absence of roadside driver greatness tests, the overall best method is probably to have a legal alcohol level for all. The alcohol level in blood is within our own control, so that is one impairing factor we can all eliminate, even if driving incompetence for many, is not.


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    #279
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 2,799 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Zahir Thoughtless Lap wrote: »
    We should probably ban radios, passengers, crying children in particular too......

    .

    Yes, and the effect of all the distractions is made worse by being alcohol influenced.


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    #280
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 2,799 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Zahir Thoughtless Lap wrote: »


    Most people I know or encounter (including people from other Western European countries) hold very similar opinions to myself.


    I know of a place called Kerry where peoples think it is correct to drink with driving if you live far from pubs. Are these your people?


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    #281
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Venus In Furs wrote: »

    What are the things people do daily that are worse than the effect of a couple of pints? (Note the deliberate dowplaying of three or four pints with something vague like "a couple").

    Driving while tired is a major one. It's far far more dangerous than driving after 3 pints. Yet it's done by people up and down the county every day of the week, the same people claiming someone having their few pints and driving home are a menace on the road.

    I have no problem whatsoever in condemning people drunk driving. I have often seen people drive after 10 or 12 pints from my local and I think it's crazy but there is no comparison with someone having a small few pints and tipping away home. It's like doing someone for speeding for 122km/h in a 120km/h zone.


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    #282
    Tarzana2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,553 ✭✭✭Tarzana2


    Zahir Thoughtless Lap wrote: »
    I have no problem whatsoever in condemning people drunk driving. I have often seen people drive after 10 or 12 pints from my local and I think it's crazy but there is no comparison with someone having a small few pints and tipping away home. It's like doing someone for speeding for 122km/h in a 120km/h zone.

    Once again, many people would be impaired after two or three drinks. The law needs to allow for this. For people like this, it is nothing like the bolded bit.

    I have to say though, based on your posting history, I find it hard to believe you'd only ever have 2 or 3 pints when you visit a pub.


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    #283
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Tarzana2 wrote: »

    I have to say though, based on your posting history, I find it hard to believe you'd only ever have 2 or 3 pints when you visit a pub.

    What I do or don't is not really relevant as its extremely rare that I would drive after more than one pint as I need my car too much and can't risk being caught, I'm arguing the whole philosophy of the thing rather than what I do myself. However yes I would often have just a small few pints. Twice in the last couple of days I have gone for 4 pints or less in between the big nights out.


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    #284
    Tarzana2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,553 ✭✭✭Tarzana2


    Zahir Thoughtless Lap wrote: »
    What I do or don't is not really relevant as its extremely rare that I would drive after more than one pint as I need my car too much and can't risk being caught, I'm arguing the whole philosophy of the thing rather than what I do myself. However yes I would often have just a small few pints. Twice in the last couple of days I have gone for 4 pints or less in between the big nights out.

    Well, thankfully, the law doesn't agree with your "philosophy".


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    #285
    Haithabu
    Registered Users Posts: 180 ✭✭Haithabu


    Zahir Thoughtless Lap wrote: »
    its extremely rare that I would drive after more than one pint as I need my car too much and can't risk being caught

    This is proof enough that it's good that there are laws are in place to forbid you driving while drunk. There are enough people who would not drink and drive "because it's common sense". Obviously there are people as well who won't drink and drive "because they need their car and can't risk being caught". Glad to see you won't drive with more than one pint, whatever your motivation is.

    Point taken that driving while tired is also dangerous, but I think we agree that this is not relevant and no reason to allow drink driving.


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    #286
    UCDVet
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,894 ✭✭✭UCDVet


    Zahir Thoughtless Lap wrote: »
    We should probably ban radios, passengers, crying children in particular too......

    People are distracted on the roads constantly, many things people do daily are worse than the effect of a couple pints yet the same people who allow themselves be distracted go ballistic and at even the suggestion of driving after smelling a pint.

    The one that gets me is driving while tired. It's been shown to be as dangerous (or more so) than drink driving; but I have friends and family who will BRAG about their ability to drive while sleepy. Everyone likes to make it sound like they are hard workers or whatever.

    During Christmas my Sister talked about how hard it is for her to get up at 4:30am to be at work by 5:30 (new job) and how, most days, she gets to work and doesn't remember the drive. My Dad, when he was younger, would travel long distances by car. He'd brag about driving straight through the night, without stopping.

    Ironically, when I was young, I was told NEVER DRINK DRIVE. Nobody mentioned any of the other things that were bad. In uni, I'd go to a party at 8pm and drink until 2am. Nobody would let me drive home drunk at 2am (and I wouldn't want to) but I'd usually stay up until 7-8am and drive home. I'd be sober (I had a breathalyzer so I knew my BAC level) and I could legally drive. But I hadn't slept and, statistically speaking, I was just as likely to crash due to lack of sleep than had I driven home at 3am with a BAC that would make me impaired.

    Drink driving is a serious crime though.
    Staying up all night and driving home is not a crime at all.

    Kind of messed up, but such is life.


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    #287
    Tarzana2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,553 ✭✭✭Tarzana2


    UCDVet wrote: »
    The one that gets me is driving while tired. It's been shown to be as dangerous (or more so) than drink driving; but I have friends and family who will BRAG about their ability to drive while sleepy. Everyone likes to make it sound like they are hard workers or whatever.

    There's no way to legislate for this though really. Doesn't mean that drink driving shouldn't be. It's measurable so can be controlled.


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    #288
    ProfessorPlum
    Registered Users Posts: 1,802 ✭✭✭ProfessorPlum


    Dangerous and Careless driving are crimes though. If you are so fatigued that you drive dangerously or carelessly, then you are breaking the law.
    Granted, having a blood test for alcohol limits is an easy way to define weather you have broken that actual law.


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    #289
    Tarzana2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,553 ✭✭✭Tarzana2


    ProfessorPlum wrote: »
    Dangerous and Careless driving are crimes though. If you are so fatigued that you drive dangerously or carelessly, then you are breaking the law.

    Well then, what's the problem? Causing an accident through tiredness can fall under this. I meant there's no specific way to say that's what happened. Just that the person was driving dangerously. If someone nods and then wakes up with no damage done, not a whole lot that can be done, unless of course the car was spotting moving erratically.


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    #290
    Lone Shark
    Registered Users Posts: 17 ✭Lone Shark


    As a non-drinker who likes the pub and night club scene, it naturally follows that I do a lot of driving at 1am-3am, since I'll usually do my best to bring home as many people as I legally can, even if they're well out of the way. And I've just come through yet another Christmas socialising season without seeing a single checkpoint.

    In all, in nearly two decades of driving and probably an average of 50-100 nights out per year in that time (driving for 98% of those occasions) I've now been breathalysed once and passed four checkpoints in total in that 19 year spell. One of those four was a checkpoint set up outside Athlone because there had been a crime committed in town that night and they were looking out for someone, so I'd say if I was in that 2 or 3 pint country I'd have got away with that one.

    You can talk all you like about the attitude of people in the pub, and those attitudes vary hugely. However any politician or guard on TV who talks about clamping down on this is paying it lip service, they don't enforce it and that's why it still happens. If people thought there was even a 10% chance of getting caught, they wouldn't do it. I can say definitively that the odds are far less than 1%.



    In contrast, I passed two GoSafe Vans over the last few days - one on Christmas Eve and one on Christmas Day.


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    #291
    RoscommonTom
    Registered Users Posts: 918 ✭✭✭RoscommonTom


    Lone Shark wrote: »
    As a non-drinker who likes the pub and night club scene, it naturally follows that I do a lot of driving at 1am-3am, since I'll usually do my best to bring home as many people as I legally can, even if they're well out of the way. And I've just come through yet another Christmas socialising season without seeing a single checkpoint.

    In all, in nearly two decades of driving and probably an average of 50-100 nights out per year in that time (driving for 98% of those occasions) I've now been breathalysed once and passed four checkpoints in total in that 19 year spell. One of those four was a checkpoint set up outside Athlone because there had been a crime committed in town that night and they were looking out for someone, so I'd say if I was in that 2 or 3 pint country I'd have got away with that one.

    You can talk all you like about the attitude of people in the pub, and those attitudes vary hugely. However any politician or guard on TV who talks about clamping down on this is paying it lip service, they don't enforce it and that's why it still happens. If people thought there was even a 10% chance of getting caught, they wouldn't do it. I can say definitively that the odds are far less than 1%.



    In contrast, I passed two GoSafe Vans over the last few days - one on Christmas Eve and one on Christmas Day.

    True for you I never once seen a check point my whole life and I know a few fellas local what thinks nothing of driving home after a heap of pints


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    #292
    UCDVet
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,894 ✭✭✭UCDVet


    ProfessorPlum wrote: »
    Dangerous and Careless driving are crimes though. If you are so fatigued that you drive dangerously or carelessly, then you are breaking the law.
    Granted, having a blood test for alcohol limits is an easy way to define weather you have broken that actual law.

    Sure - but why treat Drink Driving differently if studies show it to be equally as dangerous?

    Dangerous and Careless driving would cover bad driving as a result of alcohol, but we still have additional laws against it. You could drive *perfectly*, but if you have a BAC level that is high enough, it's a crime.

    But, as far as I know, you could stay up for three days and drive 8 hours around Ireland and it's completely legal *until* the very second you drive off the road or run through a stop light.

    BAC levels and impairment vary a lot from person to person and even gender (a buzzed male driver is more dangerous than a buzzed female driver, even at the same BAC level, from what I've read). And so would hours of sleep required - but we still have standards for BAC levels.

    Why not standards for sleep?

    Now, I will give RSA.ie credit as they do have a fatigued driving campaign http://www.rsa.ie/en/RSA/Road-Safety/Campaigns/Current-road-safety-campaigns/Drunk-With-Tiredness/ but I'll admit I haven't seen it.

    Still, I don't see any reason why we don't have a 'You can't drive more than X hours per day or per 7 hours of sleep' or something. It's *as dangerous* as drink driving....we should set limits for it, just like we do BAC - IMHO.

    And yeah, I understand that testing for it would be impossible. But that's fine. Just by having it be a crime, you'd show that it is a serious offence that is JUST as bad as drink driving.

    Correct me if I'm wrong (I don't drive, so I'm not too familiar) but the EU has regulations like this for *professional* drivers, but not for less trained, regular drivers.
    http://www.rsa.ie/RSA/Professional-Drivers/Driving-Safely/Driver-Hours/

    That seems wrong to me. If professional drivers can't be trusted to decide when they are too tired to drive, we shouldn't let amateur drivers do it.


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    #293
    JP Liz V1
    Registered Users Posts: 85,125 ✭✭✭✭JP Liz V1


    If you are caught drink driving, then I think you should be given a life ban from driving ever again
    https://forumofgames.com/




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    #294
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    JP Liz V1 wrote: »
    If you are caught drink driving, then I think you should be given a life ban from driving ever again

    Yeah let's have completely disproportionate levels of punishment for breaking a law :rolleyes:

    We have stricter punishment here as it is in comparison to many countries around the world.


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    #295
    Bruthal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,422 ✭✭✭✭Bruthal


    JP Liz V1 wrote: »
    If you are caught drink driving, then I think you should be given a life ban from driving ever again

    And for speeding? Guillotine perhaps?


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    #296
    JP Liz V1
    Registered Users Posts: 85,125 ✭✭✭✭JP Liz V1


    Bruthal wrote: »
    And for speeding? Guillotine perhaps?



    Life ban also
    https://forumofgames.com/




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    #297
    Nib
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,088 ✭✭✭Nib


    JP Liz V1 wrote: »
    If you are caught drink driving, then I think you should be given a life ban from driving ever again
    :rolleyes:


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    #298
    Venus In Furs
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,028 ✭✭✭Venus In Furs


    A glass of wine with a meal, or one pint is not a dangerous amount to drink before driving - generally speaking.
    But three or four pints can definitely cause a level of intoxication. Four pints would have me pretty pissed.
    Therefore there has to be a one-size-fits-all at some point.


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