Is it acceptable to wear BDSM attire in public?

GarIT · 10-06-2014 11:27pm #1

After a recent discussion on the LGBT forum which resulted in me being banned I was told it was discrimination to tell a man that it is wrong for them to walk around Dublin wearing nothing but a leather g-string or other BDSM attire.

The claim which I disagree with is that somebody can wear any attire in public they wish and to say they shouldn't be allowed is discrimination.

Personally I believe that there are some things that are just not acceptable to wear in public, and to me chains and leather which barely covers your genitals is included in that.

The mod has requested that if the matter is to be discussed in this forum. I know the post is a bit weird but a mod said to post it here so if there are any problems you can talk to them about it I suppose.

Hamhide · 10-06-2014 11:40pm

While I wouldn't agree that walking around in nothing but a g-string be it a guy or a girl isn't really acceptable I would agree that wearing light bdsm attire in general should be acceptable. I'm not talking about assless chaps or anything but a leather dress, high boots and even a collar in my opinion can't hurt anyone. I think it's important to express your sexuality, although keeping your modesty is also important. Some doms and masters would like to see their subs wearing collars some days and I think that's fine.

Hotale.com · 10-06-2014 11:42pm

Legally acceptable? yes, I'd imagine so.

Socially acceptable? not a chance.

GarIT · 10-06-2014 11:42pm

Hamhide wrote: »

While I wouldn't agree that walking around in nothing but a g-string be it a guy or a girl isn't really acceptable I would agree that wearing light bdsm attire in general should be acceptable. I'm not talking about assless chaps or anything but a leather dress, high boots and even a collar in my opinion can't hurt anyone. I think it's important to express your sexuality, although keeping your modesty is also important. Some doms and masters would like to see their subs wearing collars some days and I think that's fine.

I agree there, I've no problem with leather clothing or anything like that, it was more people that are almost naked that the discussion was focused on.

GarIT · 10-06-2014 11:44pm

Hotale.com wrote: »

Legally acceptable? yes, I'd imagine so.

The only laws in Ireland is that it is illegal to be naked with the intent to cause offence.

J_E · 11-06-2014 3:06am

GarIT wrote: »

The only laws in Ireland is that it is illegal to be naked with the intent to cause offence.

Are you referring to this?

You forgot to mention in your original post that this was about the day of Dublin Pride in particular. Nobody is walking around like that on an everyday basis. All festivals have exhibitionists and those who are more on the fringe. This is a bit of a whatabout-ery and I think you're being offended here for the wrong reasons.

GarIT · 11-06-2014 3:08am

Cydoniac wrote: »

Are you referring to this?

That's exactly the sort of thing I'm talking about.

J_E · 11-06-2014 3:11am

GarIT wrote: »

That's exactly the sort of thing I'm talking about.

Have you ever seen someone outside wearing this yourself? In Dublin or otherwise? I'm only asking because you chose a very select few pictures of a select few people on one day of the year in Ireland. It's not a very strong basis for a general question. "Is it acceptable to wear BDSM attire in public?" is a fairly straightforward question. Socially, of course not. Nothing outside of 'the norm' is accepted by people en masse. Elements of it? Why not. People have the freedom to express themselves. If anything, I would show respect to them for being brave about their expressions, not actually harming anyone else, and not being so worried as to what is 'acceptable' or not.

the term "Is it acceptable" conjures up images of finger wagging and shame, which I would personally like less of in this world.

porsche959 · 11-06-2014 3:22am

GarIT wrote: »

After a recent discussion on the LGBT forum which resulted in me being banned I was told it was discrimination to tell a man that it is wrong for them to walk around Dublin wearing nothing but a leather g-string or other BDSM attire.

The claim which I disagree with is that somebody can wear any attire in public they wish and to say they shouldn't be allowed is discrimination.

Personally I believe that there are some things that are just not acceptable to wear in public, and to me chains and leather which barely covers your genitals is included in that.

The mod has requested that if the matter is to be discussed in this forum. I know the post is a bit weird but a mod said to post it here so if there are any problems you can talk to them about it I suppose.

Maybe more to your taste?

http://www.suitandtiesociety.co.uk/

GarIT · 11-06-2014 3:30am

Cydoniac wrote: »

Have you ever seen someone outside wearing this yourself?

Not personally, I've seen it on facebook and young family members have had to witness it in public.

GarIT · 11-06-2014 3:31am

porsche959 wrote: »

Maybe more to your taste?

http://www.suitandtiesociety.co.uk/

In what way? I dont particularly care what people wear as long as there not almost naked.

J_E · 11-06-2014 3:48am

GarIT wrote: »

Not personally

Ah...so I thought.

GarIT wrote: »

young family members have had to witness it in public.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qh2sWSVRrmo

GarIT wrote: »

I dont particularly care what people wear

Oh, but you clearly do, otherwise why would this thread exist?

GarIT · 11-06-2014 3:50am

Cydoniac wrote: »

Oh, but you clearly do, otherwise why would this thread exist?

As I said, as long as they are not almost naked.

J_E · 11-06-2014 3:51am

GarIT wrote: »

As I said, as long as they are not almost naked.

Children are going to see a lot worse than the aforementioned picture above, and not from a gay man/woman, that's for sure. This is a lot of false outrage over what is essentially nothing.

Would you also require women to wear ankle length skirts and turtlenecks? Surely a bikini is entirely inappropriate attire. How about swimming trunks? Wrestlers??

Somehow I'm not even sure you are familiar with the real world of BDSM culture at all, even? (no, the mask and furry handcuffs from the costume shop doesn't count)

GarIT wrote: »

The whole thing, there is always somebody that ruins it and nobody tries to stop it. Every year there are grown men walking around Dublin in pink tights a tutu and fairy wings, there does be half naked people too and one year I saw pictures of people trying to have sex in the middle of the parade.

I mean, this says it all really. Why pursue a debate when someone has that kind of attitude?

GarIT · 11-06-2014 4:38am

Cydoniac wrote: »

Children are going to see a lot worse than the aforementioned picture above, and not from a gay man/woman, that's for sure. This is a lot of false outrage over what is essentially nothing.

Would you also require women to wear ankle length skirts and turtlenecks? Surely a bikini is entirely inappropriate attire. How about swimming trunks? Wrestlers??

Somehow I'm not even sure you are familiar with the real world of BDSM culture at all, even? (no, the mask and furry handcuffs from the costume shop doesn't count)

I mean, this says it all really. Why pursue a debate when someone has that kind of attitude?

I never said it had anything to do with the sexuality of the person, just what they think it is ok to wear through city centre.

At mid day in city centre yes everything you mentioned is inappropriate.

What kind of attitude are you talking about?

Black Swan · 11-06-2014 6:22am

Is it acceptable to wear BDSM attire in public?

Beyond laws, there are social norms in every community that suggest what manner of dress was deemed appropriate. If I were to walk down Grafton Street early Saturday afternoon in a tiny bikini, most shoppers would feel that my dress was inappropriate, and probably act towards me accordingly. They might think the same of BDSM wear that was just as revealing.

In like manner, if I was to show up in either of these outfits at a top Dublin based corporation boardroom attempting to sell expensive software to them, I doubt they would take me seriously.

Then again, if I showed up summertime at Bundoran Beach in bikini with surf board, I would fit right in, but not if wearing BDSM. And if I sunbathed on the beach at Vieille Saint Girons in France in bikini or BDSM the nudes there may find my attire most inappropriate. This comparative list could go on and on...

Personally, I find sexuality revealed with subtlety and grace more appealing. An outfit that shows some leg, or exposed shoulder, or open back, and the like. Then again, my black leathers show no skin but are revealing in that they conform to the curves of my body.

Are such norms discriminatory? Often they are. If you overtly challenge them, there may be consequences that you may not like. It's your call.

Hamhide · 11-06-2014 10:01am

Black Swan wrote: »

Is it acceptable to wear BDSM attire in public?

Beyond laws, there are social norms in every community that suggest what manner of dress was deemed appropriate. If I were to walk down Grafton Street early Saturday afternoon in a tiny bikini, most shoppers would feel that my dress was inappropriate, and probably act towards me accordingly. They might think the same of BDSM wear that was just as revealing.

In like manner, if I was to show up in either of these outfits at a top Dublin based corporation boardroom attempting to sell expensive software to them, I doubt they would take me seriously.

Then again, if I showed up summertime at Bundoran Beach in bikini with surf board, I would fit right in, but not if wearing BDSM. And if I sunbathed on the beach at Vieille Saint Girons in France in bikini or BDSM the nudes there may find my attire most inappropriate. This comparative list could go on and on...

Personally, I find sexuality revealed with subtlety and grace more appealing. An outfit that shows some leg, or exposed shoulder, or open back, and the like. Then again, my black leathers show no skin but are revealing in that they conform to the curves of my body.

Are such norms discriminatory? Often they are. If you overtly challenge them, there may be consequences that you may not like. It's your call.

I deffo agree with this.

If I showed up to a bdsm meeting in a bikini I would get thrown out.
Walking around in practically nothing regaurdless of what it is and if it has anything to do with your sexuality is only acceptable in very few situations if any. If bdsm is your lifestyle when I know for fact that silly masks and furry cuffs aren't what your going to be wearing outside. Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't there a bdsm march at pride most years? I know some parents won't want their kids seeing half naked people on leashes and whips grinding against each other, nevermind that is again putting a negative stereotype on the LGBT community. Pride is about shedding that stereotype and saying ''we are normal people and not perverts!'' and then some guys march behind them in sex gear, its quite counter productive. Is bdsm attire acceptable in public?
It all depends on you really. You might feel uncomfortable standing in tesco's behind a person wearing just a leather thong but what if they were just wearing a collar, or a corset or something like that? You might even be curious yourself. Its definitely a touchy subject but its worth discussing.

11-06-2014 12:44pm

What does "acceptable" mean? What happens if somebody wears something that is not acceptable?

J_E · 11-06-2014 1:24pm

Hamhide wrote: »

I Pride is about shedding that stereotype and saying ''we are normal people and not perverts!'' and then some guys march behind them in sex gear, its quite counter productive. Is bdsm attire acceptable in public?

Isn't that quite counter-indicative of the word 'Pride' if you're ashamed to express what you feel is an important aspect of your being? Nobody that I have seen, on pictures or in person, has gone all out in a fetish context like that in Ireland. You might see that at Folsom sure. Children aren't going to draw the same conclusion as adults in terms of suggestive materials. When children see leather they think of medieval fantasy, not sex. It's a bit of a moot appropriation. Nobody I've ever seen at pride is extreme in their clothes choices, with the police presence do you genuinely think something illegal would be allowed? A guy in underwear is no worse than a woman in a bikini. The context/sexuality combined seems to jar some people. I'd like to think Ireland is a little past the clutching beads, 'think of the children!' shaming mentality.

When you see someone being walked around on a leash and harness down the road maybe then this discussion can be had in a more serious context, but right now the main poster is being offended at something they haven't ever personally seen, is a complete rarity in the whole of Ireland, and I find that to be a little false. Being apparently offended at a man walking in a tutu is just a very telling sign.

Renegade Mechanic · 11-06-2014 1:28pm

Discrimination!? Thats p*ssed me off a little. Its not about "discrimination" FFS.. Its about maintaining a little bloody decency in public, be you gay, straight, bi, white, black or f*cking Zoidberg.:mad:

Of course its unacceptable.

[Deleted User] · 11-06-2014 5:14pm

Costumes are different from everyday attire, and from what I gather the OP is objecting to costumes worn during a parade, on a single day of the year.

If thats the case, then I see those costumes as no more inappropriate than the costumes worn in Brazil or New Orleans on Mardi Gras.

http://blog.privateislandparty.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/japan-mardi-gras-wp.jpg

No one is walking around Tesco on a Sunday morning in a leather thong and a feather. If they were, habitually, we could discuss the sensibilities of onlookers ambushed where they least expect it, but since a Parade costume on the day of a Parade is in it's natural habitat, I can't see for the life of me what the problem is.

I think the main problem here is that the viewer feels uncomfortable with visible difference, in which case they should address the cause of their discomfort.

TheGlass · 11-06-2014 5:22pm

There's a time and a place for everything, I don't think there's a need for people to be dressed overly sexually in the middle of the day in public. Just because you can doesn't mean you should

Morag · 11-06-2014 5:25pm

GarIT wrote: »

That's exactly the sort of thing I'm talking about.

I would not find that objectionable.

There are types of fetiswear which is far more modest which I would have am issue with, that picture is a costume, it's not as if anyone goes to the parade in a full gimp suit.

so what if members of the queer community want to wear costumes, or wear a collar, the whole respectability politics which is happening in LGBT 'community' in Ireland is pretty abhorrent.

GarIT · 11-06-2014 7:12pm

28064212 wrote: »

What does "acceptable" mean? What happens if somebody wears something that is not acceptable?

People get offended I suppose, feel sick having to see such things or similar feelings.

GarIT · 11-06-2014 7:26pm

Cydoniac wrote: »

When you see someone being walked around on a leash and harness down the road maybe then this discussion can be had in a more serious context, but right now the main poster is being offended at something they haven't ever personally seen, is a complete rarity in the whole of Ireland, and I find that to be a little false. Being apparently offended at a man walking in a tutu is just a very telling sign.

That sort of thing is happening, there have been people walked through Dublin on a leash, thousands of people attend the events, and a tiny minority possibly maybe 10 people a year I don't know how few there are, but these people are getting away with what they do because of the day that it is, two years ago I was shown pictures of two men having sex in the middle of the road in the middle of the parade. Overly excessive PDAs happen throughout the day, nobody wants to see that.

Stop making up things and claiming I said them. I never said I was offended by anything other than people being almost naked. What I did say was that if a man dresses up as a fairy and his only reason for doing so is that he is gay I think it's much more likely that he is looking for attention and to cause trouble than to express himself, gay people are normal people they don't need to make themselves a target. Any reasonable adult knows that you don't give someone ammo to use against you if you don't want them to use it.

GarIT · 11-06-2014 7:33pm

Morag wrote: »

I would not find that objectionable.

There are types of fetiswear which is far more modest which I would have am issue with, that picture is a costume, it's not as if anyone goes to the parade in a full gimp suit.

so what if members of the queer community want to wear costumes, or wear a collar, the whole respectability politics which is happening in LGBT 'community' in Ireland is pretty abhorrent.

The problem is they are doing it in the middle of the day at a public event. The fact of the matter is that there will be kids there, maybe their shouldn't be and maybe that should be addressed but as it stands there will be and I don't know about other people but I would not be happy with my children seeing the guy that managed to get into nearly every picture on google images who spent pride day wearing nothing but boxer shorts that only have a front to them. That man really should have been arrested for public nudity but the Gardaí refuse to act because of the day that it is.

J_E · 11-06-2014 7:40pm

GarIT wrote: »

That sort of thing is happening, there have been people walked through Dublin on a leash, thousands of people attend the events, and a tiny minority possibly maybe 10 people a year I don't know how few there are, but these people are getting away with what they do because of the day that it is, two years ago I was shown pictures of two men having sex in the middle of the road in the middle of the parade.

You are the one who claims you haven't seen these people. I have never seen such a thing. People having sex in the middle of the road, I mean honestly! It would have been swiftly dealt with if it happened and nobody condones that, but to paint that as what LGBT stands for is ludicrous. (I still don't believe this, by the way)

Overly excessive PDAs happen throughout the day, nobody wants to see that.

Oh come off of that... talking about being adults and then saying that!

gay people are normal people they don't need to make themselves a target.

That outlook makes me burn with rage but I don't think I could explain to you why...don't think you'd quite understand. Let me put it this way - it's along the same lines as saying a woman is asking for it by dressing a certain way.

11-06-2014 7:54pm

GarIT wrote: »

People get offended I suppose, feel sick having to see such things or similar feelings.

And? Offence is in the mind of the offended person. People get offended constantly, day-in, day-out, by incredibly trivial things. People being offended doesn't actually mean anything.

GarIT · 11-06-2014 7:59pm

Cydoniac wrote: »

You are the one who claims you haven't seen these people. I have never seen such a thing. People having sex in the middle of the road, I mean honestly! It would have been swiftly dealt with if it happened and nobody condones that, but to paint that as what LGBT stands for is ludicrous.

Oh come off of that... talking about being adults and then saying that!

That outlook makes me burn with rage but I don't think I could explain to you why...don't think you'd quite understand. Let me put it this way - it's along the same lines as saying a woman is asking for it by dressing a certain way.

I have not said I have not seen them, I have said I have not seen them in person, I have seen many pictures. I never suggested it is what LGBT stands for, you are manipulating and twisting everything you can to look for an argument. You have accused me of saying that it is what LGBT stands for so show me where I said that? I probably would have been dealt with but it at last went on for a minute or two and I never heard of any arrests which there should have been. You say that it would have been dealt with, does that mean you are agreeing it should be dealt with?

Are you serious about that? I claimed nobody wants to see excessive PDAs and you imply I am being ridiculous. Does anyone here want to see excessive PDAs? I know I would be made feel uncomfortable if two people were getting frisky near me. I'm not saying it's wrong or that they should be ashamed, I'm saying it's not something the general public wants to be around.

You are taking the last bit completely wrong. As a child I was being bullied mainly because I am an introvert, I never liked being around people, throughout my childhood I had to learn that if you want peace sometimes you have to blend in. I am not at all suggesting being different is wrong what I am doing is acknowledging the long established fact that being different attracts trouble, I never said it should happen but it does happen. Anyone person that has some sense will recognise that.

GarIT · 11-06-2014 8:00pm

28064212 wrote: »

And? Offence is in the mind of the offended person. People get offended constantly, day-in, day-out, by incredibly trivial things. People being offended doesn't actually mean anything.

That is correct but as a society we aim to offend people as little as possible.

diveout · 11-06-2014 8:02pm

GarIT wrote: »

That is correct but as a society we aim to offend people as little as possible.

Yes but as individuals we also have a responsibility as to what we let under our skin so people have the freedom to be themselves.

Is it acceptable to wear BDSM attire in public?

Is it acceptable to wear BDSM gear in public? 28 votes

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