Is it acceptable to wear BDSM attire in public?

28064212

GarIT wrote: »

That is correct but as a society we aim to offend people as little as possible.

Since when? A huge amount of society's advances have come at the expense of offending large swathes of people.

GarIT

diveout wrote: »

Yes but as individuals we also have a responsibility as to what we let under our skin so people have the freedom to be themselves.

Which I do, I'm not suggesting that other member of the BDSM community should hide away, I am just suggesting that it would be in everyone's best interests for them to tone down the extreme elements of the pride parade a bit.

GarIT

28064212 wrote: »

Since when? A huge amount of society's advances have come at the expense of offending large swathes of people.

Since we have had laws, some people will always be offended, at times others will have to be offended, where possible though and where it is not necessary we should avoid causing offence.

[Deleted User]

GarIT wrote: »

Which I do, I'm not suggesting that other member of the BDSM community should hide away, I am just suggesting that it would be in everyone's best interests for them to tone down the extreme elements of the pride parade a bit.

Would a girl in a gold string bikini at Mardi Gras get the same request? I think this is a question of taste, not decency.

GarIT

Candie wrote: »

Would a girl in a gold string bikini at Mardi Gras get the same request? I think this is a question of taste, not decency.

At an event like that everybody is aware of the content before it begins. The vast majority of the general public don't know what is involved in the pride parade or many don't even know it is happening. These people may stumble upon the event, and find themselves seeing things they would rather choose not to.

I feel I should point out that a minority of women wear too little at the event too, it's not just men.

bumper234

Renegade Mechanic wrote: »

Discrimination!? Thats p*ssed me off a little. Its not about "discrimination" FFS.. Its about maintaining a little bloody decency in public, be you gay, straight, bi, white, black or f*cking Zoidberg.:mad:

Of course its unacceptable.

I dunno

1 pm on Grafton street outside Brown Thomas is probably going to get you a LOT of looks and possibly some nasty remarks and maybe even a word in you ear from the gardai.

1 AM outside the George will probably still get you some looks, maybe a remark from some drunk eejit and i wouldn't say the guards would look twice.

Pride day? Wear what you like.....it's one day and there are plenty there.

Funny how it's acceptable for a girl to walk into night club wearing next to nothing (shorts and a bra) and will be classed as dressed up

[Deleted User]

GarIT wrote: »

At an event like that everybody is aware of the content before it begins. The vast majority of the general public don't know what is involved in the pride parade or many don't even know it is happening. These people may stumble upon the event, and find themselves seeing things they would rather choose not to.

I feel I should point out that a minority of women wear too little at the event too, it's not just men.

I'm not gay, and I refuse to believe anyone over the age of 10 doesn't know that you can expect outrageous costumes at a Pride parade.

Not that I support public sex, and not that I believe it happened in broad daylight in Dublin in the middle of the day anyway. I'm pretty certain the other parade participants would take a pretty dim view of anyone bringing the parade under the microscope of those looking for a reason to disparage it.

GarIT

bumper234 wrote: »

For about 2 years solid in Temple bar it seemed like every stag night wore these, would you be offended seeing 20 men in these?

[img][/img]http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcR4R9_tKon0XgEs1uj-LJ4qL6j6h3Bd75BDgQtd8gggwwjlpP9A

That's not actually someone's arse though, I wouldn't be offended by someone doing it with their actual arse though just disgusted, with those I'd see it as a joke.

GarIT

Candie wrote: »

I'm not gay, and I refuse to believe anyone over the age of 10 doesn't know that you can expect outrageous costumes at a Pride parade.

Most people don't know its happening, a lot of people would expect costumes but most of them would not expect them to the level some people take them.

Dressing up for pride day is great it's all part of the fun of it but a few people take it too far and need to be stopped.

bumper234

GarIT wrote: »

Most people don't know its happening, a lot of people would expect costumes but most of them would not expect them to the level some people take them.

Dressing up for pride day is great it's all part of the fun of it but a few people take it too far and need to be stopped.

Again i'll ask, is it ok for young girls to walk the streets at night heading to pubs and clubs wearing shorts and a bra? How about a short short mini skirt?

And no offence, when you see the pride parade you KNOW it's the pride parade, unless you have just flown in that day from Saudi Arabia.

GarIT

Dallas Texas thinks it should be cracked down on, it's funny that it's them, it's almost too stereotypical http://www.lifesitenews.com/news/homosexuals-angered-as-cops-crack-down-on-lewdness-and-nudity-at-dallas-gay

GarIT

bumper234 wrote: »

Again i'll ask, is it ok for young girls to walk the streets at night heading to pubs and clubs wearing shorts and a bra? How about a short short mini skirt?

And no offence, when you see the pride parade you KNOW it's the pride parade, unless you have just flown in that day from Saudi Arabia.

I thought I already answered, personally I don't know, legally all you have to cover is your genitalia but I think people should still have a bit of decency regarding how they present themselves in public, on the other hand it is a club at night in a strictly adult only setting so I suppose they should be free to do what they want really.

28064212

GarIT wrote: »

Since we have had laws, some people will always be offended, at times others will have to be offended, where possible though and where it is not necessary we should avoid causing offence.

Again, why? People are offended all the time, by trivial things. Should I not wear a Manchester United jersey in case some sensitive Liverpool fans are around today? If we tried not to cause offence, we would be decades, centuries back in social progress. "Someone being offended" is and has never been a good reason for doing or not doing anything

bumper234

GarIT wrote: »

I thought I already answered, personally I don't know, legally all you have to cover is your genitalia but I think people should still have a bit of decency regarding how they present themselves in public, on the other hand it is a club at night in a strictly adult only setting so I suppose they should be free to do what they want really.

I worked in the city center for years and used to.see tourists with kids up to 11 at night. There would be women walking around in short skirts and such. Never bothered me but according to you if there are kids around then they should be covered up right?

GarIT

28064212 wrote: »

Again, why? People are offended all the time, by trivial things. Should I not wear a Manchester United jersey in case some sensitive Liverpool fans are around today? If we tried not to cause offence, we would be decades, centuries back in social progress. "Someone being offended" is and has never been a good reason for doing or not doing anything

So by your logic homophobic comments are ok because who cares if anyone gets offended?

GarIT

bumper234 wrote: »

I worked in the city center for years and used to.see tourists with kids up to 11 at night. There would be women walking around in short skirts and such. Never bothered me but according to you if there are kids around then they should be covered up right?

Basically yeah. In the states being naked around a minor can get you a long time locked up it's a felony. Being nearly naked around children isn't illegal but it's still wrong.

28064212

GarIT wrote: »

So by your logic homophobic comments are ok because who cares if anyone gets offended?

Homophobic comments are ok. There are hundreds of examples every day throughout the country. I don't agree with them, I think they're stupid things said by stupid or ignorant people, but they're "acceptable". Incitement to hatred might be a reason to ban something, but the reason is it's incitement to hatred, not because someone was offended by them

bumper234

GarIT wrote: »

Basically yeah. In the states being naked around a minor can get you a long time locked up it's a felony. Being nearly naked around children isn't illegal but it's still wrong.

This is not America though, walking around with a gun in Ireland will get you arrested but parts of America allow that. So you think these women should be told to cover up?

GarIT

28064212 wrote: »

Homophobic comments are ok. There are hundreds of examples every day throughout the country. I don't agree with them, I think they're stupid things said by stupid or ignorant people, but they're "acceptable". Incitement to hatred might be a reason to ban something, but the reason is it's incitement to hatred, not because someone was offended by them

I'll accept that explanation but just think of this for a second, if you have the choice of offending people or nothing else will change, assume the offending is not relevant to anything else its just arbitrary what do you do? I wouldn't offend them.

Then consider what is gained by people at the pride parade wearing anything less say a pair of shorts, it doesn't have to be a long pair of shorts, even football shorts length. I don't see how any part of the event would be lost by an agreement that nobody would wear less than that and what is does do is protects children from indecent exposure, it keeps other people that may be offended happy, it prevents the image of the LBGT community being dragged down, it seems like all positives to me.

J_E

28064212 wrote: »

Again, why? People are offended all the time, by trivial things. Should I not wear a Manchester United jersey in case some sensitive Liverpool fans are around today? If we tried not to cause offence, we would be decades, centuries back in social progress. "Someone being offended" is and has never been a good reason for doing or not doing anything

Partly why I have a bit of issue with the origins of this thread. the OP is claiming offense to something they had never even been there to see for themselves or verify. If we spent our time being offended at stuff like this, the world would drown in disapproval and finger wagging.

GarIT

bumper234 wrote: »

This is not America though, walking around with a gun in Ireland will get you arrested but parts of America allow that. So you think these women should be told to cover up?

I know it's not America, It's just an example of it being wrong to be naked around children.

I depends on the exact situation, if the people are queueing for a club late at night maybe the parents of the children should be told to leave, if they are just wandering the streets they should be told to cover up. An example of where a society sees this as wrong is that it is illegal to wear nothing but a bikini in public in Spain unless you are on a beach or at a pool.

Renegade Mechanic

bumper234 wrote: »

I dunno

1 pm on Grafton street outside Brown Thomas is probably going to get you a LOT of looks and possibly some nasty remarks and maybe even a word in you ear from the gardai.

1 AM outside the George will probably still get you some looks, maybe a remark from some drunk eejit and i wouldn't say the guards would look twice.

Pride day? Wear what you like.....it's one day and there are plenty there.

Funny how it's acceptable for a girl to walk into night club wearing next to nothing (shorts and a bra) and will be classed as dressed up

True that but on the subject of women I think Id rather see them dressed normally when out and about. Swimwear is for... well.. swimming. Also if this is about the pride parade then, of course, its just one day. Have fun. But it is going to clash with the family friendly atmosphere they are pushing if some people go around looking like they are about to be cooked and eaten.

GarIT

Cydoniac wrote: »

Partly why I have a bit of issue with the origins of this thread. the OP is claiming offense to something they had never even been there to see for themselves or verify. If we spent our time being offended at stuff like this, the world would drown in disapproval and finger wagging.

I'm not offended by it as such, it doesn't bother my what I see I've seen it all anyway, it might make me a bit uncomfortable but that's about it. My problem is that I am worried by it and think it shouldn't be happening.

P_1

Isn't the legal definition of nudity exposing genitalia and nipples in the case of women? In that case then so long as your bits are covered then there's nothing wrong in my eyes.

As has already been posted different people take offence to all sorts of aspects of other people's appearance but the last time I checked causing somebody to be offended isn't yet illegal.

Morag

GarIT wrote: »

The problem is they are doing it in the middle of the day at a public event. The fact of the matter is that there will be kids there, maybe their shouldn't be and maybe that should be addressed but as it stands there will be and I don't know about other people but I would not be happy with my children seeing the guy that managed to get into nearly every picture on google images who spent pride day wearing nothing but boxer shorts that only have a front to them. That man really should have been arrested for public nudity but the Gardaí refuse to act because of the day that it is.

Pride is a well known event, you'd have to be living under a rock to not know it is on. It gets national media every year. If you wish to aviod the parade it's easy enough to do so.

I have kids, I have had them in at pride, seeing some man's bum is not going to scar them for life. Last time we saw someone scantily clad at pride the only comments were, that they hoped that the person had put on sun cream.

I have more issues with my kids being exposed to the marches/vigils 'for life' then I do with the Pride parade.

GarIT wrote: »

Basically yeah. In the states being naked around a minor can get you a long time locked up it's a felony. Being nearly naked around children isn't illegal but it's still wrong.

It's the human body, would you have children kept out art galleries?
should they be 'protected' from paintings and sculptures too?
Too often people get up right, it's just a human body, billions of people have them and have done for for millions of years.

GarIT wrote: »

Which I do, I'm not suggesting that other member of the BDSM community should hide away, I am just suggesting that it would be in everyone's best interests for them to tone down the extreme elements of the pride parade a bit.

Actually members of the bdsm community in Ireland in general to have to hide.
Esp if they are in a caring profession, a teaching profession, a law profession and if they have children. I would not presume that the guy in the outfit you posted was even into kink, he's wearing a costume, it's not clearly fetish wear.

Honestly the more you post the more you are coming across as a prude and someone who seems terrified that people will think less of you or lbgt people cos of the actions of less then a handful.

Morag

P_1 wrote: »

Isn't the legal definition of nudity exposing genitalia and nipples in the case of women? In that case then so long as your bits are covered then there's nothing wrong in my eyes.

As has already been posted different people take offence to all sorts of aspects of other people's appearance but the last time I checked causing somebody to be offended isn't yet illegal.

Actually your not naked/nude if you are covered in body paint

28064212

GarIT wrote: »

I'll accept that explanation but just think of this for a second, if you have the choice of offending people or nothing else will change, assume the offending is not relevant to anything else its just arbitrary what do you do? I wouldn't offend them.

Whether someone would be offended wouldn't even cross my mind. It wouldn't be low on my list of priorities, it wouldn't even be on the list

GarIT wrote: »

Then consider what is gained by people at the pride parade wearing anything less say a pair of shorts, it doesn't have to be a long pair of shorts, even football shorts length.

How short are these shorts? At what length does a pair of shorts start to offend someone?

GarIT wrote: »

what is does do is protects children from indecent exposure

If you want to prevent children from indecent exposure, then there should be a law against it. It has nothing to do with anyone being offended.

P_1

Morag wrote: »

Actually your not naked/nude if you are covered in body paint

You learn something new every day

bumper234

GarIT wrote: »

I know it's not America, It's just an example of it being wrong to be naked around children.

I depends on the exact situation, if the people are queueing for a club late at night maybe the parents of the children should be told to leave, if they are just wandering the streets they should be told to cover up. An example of where a society sees this as wrong is that it is illegal to wear nothing but a bikini in public in Spain unless you are on a beach or at a pool.

So you think we should go down the road of Saudi Arabia where we have morality police telling women to cover up? Should there be a curfew on what time it is acceptable? Kids see worse on tv every day maybe you should start your morality campaign there.

GarIT

Morag wrote: »

Pride is a well known event, you'd have to be living under a rock to not know it is on. It gets national media every year. If you wish to aviod the parade it's easy enough to do so.

I have kids, I have had them in at pride, seeing some man's bum is not going to scar them for life. Last time we saw someone scantily clad at pride the only comments were, that they hoped that the person had put on sun cream.

I have more issues with my kids being exposed to the marches/vigils 'for life' then I do with the Pride parade.



It's the human body, would you have children kept out art galleries?
should they be 'protected' from paintings and sculptures too?
Too often people get up right, it's just a human body, billions of people have them and have done for for millions of years.



Actually members of the bdsm community in Ireland in general to have to hide.
Esp if they are in a caring profession, a teaching profession, a law profession and if they have children. I would not presume that the guy in the outfit you posted was even into kink, he's wearing a costume, it's not clearly fetish wear.

Honestly the more you post the more you are coming across as a prude and someone who seems terrified that people will think less of you or lbgt people cos of the actions of less then a handful.

My my family live under rocks but last year they didn't know it was on and were fairly shocked by what they saw (AFAIK it wasn't that bad, some of these people are 80+ though and set in their ways)

For some people it's not easy to avoid, some people have to be in the vicinity of the parade for their own business, some people live near it.

It probably won't scar them for life but it is something they shouldn't be exposed to by choice especially when it is sexualised. Strangely on this I feel that I'm saying it because it is how the majority thinks, I have often questioned myself why we hide sex and bodies from children, I've never come up with a reason for why we should but I tend to just accept I'm not a psychologist and someone who actually knows about children probably knows better.

There are some crazies out there alright, I'd agree that religion is more harmful to children than nudity but I don't see how that is relevant though.

no I don't think they should be kept away from paintings or sculptures assuming the images aren't sexualised.

I don't think the BDSM community in Ireland has to hide more than anywhere else, I think they are fairly open. In any country in the world teachers and people certain professions have to keep it quiet, it's not unique to Ireland, young people in Ireland are very accepting of people participating in BDSM.

It wasn't actually me that brought BDSM up, I was told I was denying the BDSM communities rights by saying people shouldn't be almost naked in public. It's strange that I was accused of discriminating against the community by saying they shouldn't be wearing their gear in public when it is the community itself that says not to wear your gear in public, at most events changing rooms are provided and attendees are usually asked to arrive in plain clothes and change as to not cause trouble or draw attention to the event. Initally I don't think I said that was BDSM gear, somebody else did, I would actually agree that it is though, It's clearly a costume and not a functional piece but its is similar to things that would be worn for show.

I don't see how I come across as a prude, i would have thought the opposite of myself, I've never been good at articulating myself though. I could probably dig up some threads where I'm labelled as a militant leftie, which I possibly am at times. One thing I must point out is you say I fear reputations being damaged for the many by the few and yes I do, because that's exactly what happens. If you do a search for pride parade Dublin about 1 in every 5 pictures is somebody going a bit too far for the public domain yet at the parade it could be 1 in a thousand, but we don't see the good honest people, the troublesome few make the headlines.

Anyway I think you have made a lot of false assumptions about me. I'm not half as bad as you seem to think, it possibly comes across as I am because I am trying to show that things could be improved, and to do that I'm pointing out where I think things are being done wrong, I don't need to convince anyone of the merits of the pride parade because you all know already. I believe in complete equal rights for everyone, I have made proposals before that our constitution should have any reference to gender removed, I have fought for that against our politicians, and I have proposed that our system of laws should be based on the premise that everybody should be free to do anything as long as they don't harm anybody else. I'm really not some right wing bigot, this thread just makes me seem that way.