Multiple People Shot in Walmart Las Vegas 5 Dead (Curently) in Suicide Pact

darkpagandeath · 09-06-2014 01:04AM

Brown Bomber wrote: »

Well, I am quite sure this woman was relieved to own a gun.

I'm sure She was, What has that to do with mass gun shootings in public places ?

Da Shins Kelly · 09-06-2014 01:05AM

The issue with this kind of violence in America is a lot more far-reaching than gun control. A cultural shift needs to take place there, and I can't even imagine how that would begin to happen. The obsession with violence, the media saturation and glorification of mass shootings, the ease of access to firearms, the stigma surrounding mental health issues, funding for mental health treatment, the ever increasing isolation experienced by people - it all contributes to scenarios like this. It's not just one particular problem, it's a whole host of problems, and none of them are easily or cheaply solved. And furthermore, it seems like the only time there is ever a conversation about any of these issues is in the direct aftermath of a shooting. Someone goes out and shoots up a public place and all anyone can talk about is gun control and this and that. Once it all dies down, the whole thing is forgotten and everything goes back to square one. It needs to be an ongoing discussion, not just one that is had any time a tragedy occurs.

Davei141 · 09-06-2014 01:05AM

TeddyTedson wrote: »

Do I believe that if they decided to tighten up their gun laws that there would be a gun amnesty. You've already made the point that if they did tighten up their laws they'd already have access to millions of guns, so yes.
Do you?

So Americans, who would rather die than give up their weapons, would suddenly decide to hand over their weapons because the laws were stricter? I'll have some of what you are having please.

Witcher · 09-06-2014 01:05AM

TeddyTedson wrote: »

Nonsense. The world is forever a changing place. 40 years ago nobody would have ever believed there would be a black American president.
There might even be a gay one or a woman in the white house some day. Don't be fooled into thinking things can't change. History will prove you wrong. :)

Teddy if you believe that they would hand over their guns you have no idea about American gun owners...none.

They wholeheartedly believe (and I mean that) that their firearms protect them from a tyrannical gov. You think that's BS I know, but they believe that..completely. If any President attempted to remove their right to bear arms..they would see that as the very act the 2nd Amendment is designed to counter.

The term that is often used is 'The Second Amendment protects all the others', that's like the 11th Commandment in the US.

The Diabolical Monocle · 09-06-2014 01:09AM

Blay wrote: »

Pretty much anything you can buy in the US you can get here too, just so that's clear. There are no magazine capacity restrictions for high calibre rifles here, if you have an AR-15 pattern rifle you could hang a 100 round Cmag out of it..no problem.

You can't have flintlock's here, automatic rifles or centrefire pistols..unless you had one before Nov. 2008 but that's a different story. That's about it..anything else is still on the table here.

I'd doubt the accuracy of that, especially around calibre's.

Centrefire pistols and automatic rifles being unavailable also kind of does away with being able to get pretty much anything thats in the US here.

Any other parts of legislation that are indeed true to what you say - we need to get on that sh1t quick.

Drum mags, lets be honest, are toys for big boys. Ban them.

TeddyTedson · 09-06-2014 01:09AM

Davei141 wrote: »

So Americans, who would rather die than give up their weapons, would suddenly decide to hand over their weapons because the laws were stricter? I'll have some of what you are having please.

Answer my question please

darkpagandeath · 09-06-2014 01:09AM

Blay wrote: »

Teddy if you believe that they would hand over their guns you have no idea about American gun owners...none.

They wholeheartedly believe (and I mean that) that their firearms protect them from a tyrannical gov. You think that BS I know, but they believe that..completely. If any President attempted to remove their right to bear arms..they would see that as the very act the 2nd Amendment is designed to counter.

Does it say what type of gun you are allowed to bear ? A 1 shot pistol is a firearm having that would fulfil the right would it not ? Were did the right to take down an elephant or have the firepower to take down 15 wolves charging you come from. I mean by their logic should they not have the right to bear tanks warships so on to protect themselves from the government ?

Witcher · 09-06-2014 01:10AM

The Diabolical Monocle wrote: »

I'd doubt the accuracy of that, especially around calibre's.

Centrefire pistols and automatic rifles being unavailable also kind of does away with being able to get pretty much anything thats in the US here.

Any other parts of legislation that are indeed true to what you say - we need to get on that sh1t quick.

Drum mags, lets be honest, are toys for big boys. Ban them.

I'm a shooter., I own firearms here...trust me. If you can justify it, you'll get it.

That's why I said..'pretty much anything'. I never said we could have everything. Even in the US you can't buy an automatic rifle over the shelf anymore so that's hardly even a difference anymore.

Brown Bomber · 09-06-2014 01:11AM

darkpagandeath wrote: »

I'm sure She was, What has that to do with mass gun shootings in public places ?

Surely you can figure it out? Guns can prevent crime.

This woman was raped in her home when she didn't have a gun, she was defenseless, she became a victim of crime. The rapist came back but now she was armed. She could now defend herself and this time wasn't raped.

Witcher · 09-06-2014 01:11AM

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Does it say what type of gun you are allowed to bear ? A 1 shot pistol is a firearm having that would fulfil the right would it not ? Were did the right to take down an elephant or have the firepower to take down 15 wolves charging you come from.

From the time the 2nd Amendment was signed, US citizens have always had access to the same service rifles that the US military carry. That's pretty much the point of it, you can't have a militia if they're carrying air rifles.

Davei141 · 09-06-2014 01:13AM

TeddyTedson wrote: »

Answer my question please

Would there be a gun amnesty? Maybe who knows. Would anyone give their guns away? No. As i said fantasy stuff with no base in reality.

TeddyTedson · 09-06-2014 01:14AM

Blay wrote: »

Teddy if you believe that they would hand over their guns you have no idea about American gun owners...none.

They wholeheartedly believe (and I mean that) that their firearms protect them from a tyrannical gov. You think that's BS I know, but they believe that..completely. If any President attempted to remove their right to bear arms..they would see that as the very act the 2nd Amendment is designed to counter.

The term that is often used is 'The Second Amendment protects all the others', that's like the 11th Commandment in the US.

Your average gun holder is not this person though. Some are, but not most. Bring in the bigger guns to deal with them

It's pathetic to have the attitude that there's not point in try because people won't go for it. Irish people claimed all sorts if a property tax came in, meh.

TeddyTedson · 09-06-2014 01:16AM

Davei141 wrote: »

Would there be a gun amnesty? Maybe who knows. Would anyone give their guns away? No. As i said fantasy stuff with no base in reality.

You tied yourself up there. A politician wouldn't let ya away with that baby

Witcher · 09-06-2014 01:16AM

TeddyTedson wrote: »

Your average gun holder is not this person though. Some are, but not most. Bring in the bigger guns to deal with them
It's pathetic to have the attitude that there's not point in try because people won't go for it. Irish people claimed all sorts if a property tax came in, meh.

If there was any chance the laws could be changed, it would have been done years ago. There's not. I'm not trying to convince you of anything, doesn't matter to me whether the 2nd Amendment exists or not, I don't gain or lose anything in it. I've just spent a lot of time studying gun laws in the US, how people react to them, American society in general really etc. They just wouldn't turn them in.

Clinton tried an 'Assault Weapons Ban', it changed nothing, gun crime went up if anything.

AlanS181824 · 09-06-2014 01:16AM

Another one, seriously?

I'm so thankful I don't live in America.

Brown Bomber · 09-06-2014 01:17AM

Davei141 wrote: »

Would there be a gun amnesty? Maybe who knows. Would anyone give their guns away? No. As i said fantasy stuff with no base in reality.

A gun amnesty doesn't even make any sense. Why would anyone hand up their legally-held and expensive firearm(s) to be pardoned for a crime that doesn't exist?

Davei141 · 09-06-2014 01:18AM

TeddyTedson wrote: »

You tied yourself up there. A politician wouldn't let ya away with that baby

I can't be the only one who hasn't a clue what you are talking about. I suspect you don't either.

Tarzana · 09-06-2014 01:19AM

Deleted User wrote: »

Guns do t kill people. If someone intends to go out and kill another person then they'll find a way, gun or no gun

Guns make it waaaaay easier though.

darkpagandeath · 09-06-2014 01:19AM

Blay wrote: »

If there was any chance the laws could be changed, it would have been done years ago. There's not.

Clinton tried an 'Assault Weapons Ban', it changed nothing, gun crime went up if anything.

Put it up for public vote to change the constitution, People should decide wheather old laws/rights have a place in their modern day to day lives. Its up to every citizen not just a loud group of vocal owners and so on.

Davei141 · 09-06-2014 01:19AM

Brown Bomber wrote: »

A gun amnesty doesn't even make any sense. Why would anyone hand up their legally-held and expensive firearm(s) to be pardoned for a crime that doesn't exist?

Because Teddy asked nicely.

amkin25 · 09-06-2014 01:21AM

Tarzana wrote: »

Guns make it waaaaay easier though.

Make it easier alright and statistics would improve with the banning of guns but as said previously,it isn't the root cause of these mass killings in america.

Witcher · 09-06-2014 01:23AM

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Put it up for public vote to change the constitution, People should decide weather old laws/rights have a place in there modern day to day lives. Its up to every citizen not just a loud group of vocal owners and so on.

You probably think it's a minority group of southern rednecks holding the rest of the US to random over the 2A, you'd be suprised at the type of people who are hardened pro 2A. A lot of the Yankees up north are very much pro gun which you probably wouldn't expect.

Anyway, the point is; you could hold that referendum and even if it came out anti 2A..people would not give up their firearms. I know as Irish people we find that strange ' the goverment told us to do something we better do it'..the US is not like that.

amkin25 · 09-06-2014 01:25AM

Blay wrote: »

You probably think it's a minority group of southern rednecks holding the rest of the US to random over the 2A, you'd be suprised at the type of people who are hardened pro 2A. A lot of the Yankees up north are very much pro gun which you probably wouldn't expect.

Can't blame them if,i was in america i would wanna hold on to my gun.

Turtwig · 09-06-2014 01:25AM

**** sake another?

God help the poor families. Thoughts and wishes are with them.

America needs some serious cultural reform and fast! Otherwise, these events will keep occurring. First place to start is the media. Stop sensationalising coverage of these horrors. Don't glorify the killer(s) or attempt to speculate on their motives. Just tell the cold story and shut the fck up!

darkpagandeath · 09-06-2014 01:25AM

Blay wrote: »

You probably think it's a minority group of southern rednecks holding the rest of the US to random over the 2A, you'd be suprised at the type of people who are hardened pro 2A. A lot of the Yankees up north are very much pro gun which you probably wouldn't expect.

Anyway, the point is; you could hold that referendum and even if it came out anti 2A..people would not give up their firearms.

I understand that but are they actual the majority or just better getting their side to vote no on these issues as most seem apathetic these days and vote on little anyway. Then send in the troops after the law passes to collect the guns, I cant see a huge organised mass resistance if it passed. If that did not work or was not an option make the components of bullets stupidly expensive for personal use.

Turtwig · 09-06-2014 01:33AM

amkin25 wrote: »

Make it easier alright and statistics would improve with the banning of guns but as said previously,it isn't the root cause of these mass killings in america.

The thing is though it's not always practical or feasible to treat the root cause. You can treat the symptoms though and no guns would make it a hell of a lot harder to kill folks indiscriminately. This has to balanced with the fact it's only a cosmetic fix.The true reasons remain unaddressed but you have put in place a mechanism to prevent disasters.

Problem is the US is a gun culture. Banning guns will accomplish nothing. Drugs are banned, yet anyone who wants can get their hands on them. Cultural education is the only way to go. Devalue guns slowly and also focus on lifting the stigmas of mental health, bullying, social inequality, social justice, prejudice. And stop making these gun killers momentarily famous!

The Diabolical Monocle · 09-06-2014 01:34AM

Blay wrote: »

I'm a shooter., I own firearms here...trust me. If you can justify it, you'll get it.

That's why I said..'pretty much anything'. I never said we could have everything. Even in the US you can't buy an automatic rifle over the shelf anymore so that's hardly even a difference anymore.

Class 3 weapons ?
Chinese 7.62 ammunition ?
Automatic conversion kits ?
.44 pistols ?
.50 browning ?

Justify is the key word. It (justification) was way lacking in the US, the cat is out of the bag in that regard and its never going back in.

Thankfully not so much here.

Witcher · 09-06-2014 01:35AM

darkpagandeath wrote: »

I understand that but are they actual the majority or just at better getting there side to vote no on these issues as most seem apathetic these days and vote on little anyway.

You just have to consider that in America; the NRA is the single biggest lobby group in the country. Not big pharma/oil/military suppliers...a gun rights organisation. Not even a quarter of American gun owners are members of it either, a lot of gun owners hate them in fact, some because they see the NRA as being too lenient on the 2A, others because they just don't like the leadership, some policy or other.

If there was some sort of solution to the 2A I have no doubt that Washington would take it, they'd take your hand and all if you held it out to them but there's not. As I said I have no horse in the race so it means nothing to me really whether the 2A stands or falls but to understand gun laws in America you have to understand American gun owners first.

Brown Bomber · 09-06-2014 01:38AM

darkpagandeath wrote: »

I cant see a huge organised mass resistance if it passed.

Then you clearly haven't the first notion of what you are talking about.

Witcher · 09-06-2014 01:39AM

The Diabolical Monocle wrote: »

Class 3 weapons ?
Chinese 7.62 ammunition ?
Automatic conversion kits ?
.44 pistols ?
.50 browning ?

Justify is the key word. It (justification) was way lacking in the US, the cat is out of the bag in that regard and its never going back in.

Thankfully not so much here.

1. Class 3 weapon is an American term. It applies to silencers, automatic rifles etc. We can have silencers here, no problem..it's easier and cheaper to get them here than it is in the US. Automatic rifles we can't have, but then again, the average US citizen can't buy one over the counter either.

2. Yes we can have 7.62.

3. Can't even have those in the US.

4. Yes some people have them, along with .44 rifles.

5. Yes

As I said, the only thing you cannot have..under any circumstances are; automatics, CF pistols and black powder firearms. The rest..you can.

The point is that people generally say 'There's no need for X firearm' when usually that exact firearm is available here if you have a need for it. If that need exists here; it exists in the US, even more so given the type of game on their landmass.

Multiple People Shot in Walmart Las Vegas 5 Dead (Curently) in Suicide Pact

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