Kids arrested for mouthing at Gardai (video)

Right Turn Clyde · 07-06-2014 07:00PM

Kerryfootball wrote: »

Hellrazer - people are judging video on it's merrits.
Having watched that I think the guards gave every opportunity to disperse and they instead mouthed off like little thugs.
I wonder If these lads are in homes and not working were they get the money for smart phones to be filming there pals.

I was recording and uploading video from my phone 10 years ago. But I take your point.

Right Turn Clyde · 07-06-2014 07:02PM

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Nobody seems to be addressing the societal double standard here. If being disrespectful warrants a hiding, then this should apply equally to everyone, Gardai included.

Come on now, they didn't get a hiding. Stop exaggerating.

darkpagandeath · 07-06-2014 07:03PM

Right Turn Clyde wrote: »

I was recording and uploading video from my phone 10 years ago. But I take your point.

yeah 10 years ago so that phone was about ... €400-500 euro depending on contract ?

Right Turn Clyde · 07-06-2014 07:05PM

darkpagandeath wrote: »

yeah 10 years ago so that phone was about ... €400-500 euro depending on contract ?

Talk about missing the point.

Hellrazer · 07-06-2014 07:05PM

Im not saying the guards were wrong..I completely agree with the garda on this one.

He was mouthy and deserved to get arrested.

My point is that and I know its a cliché here in AH that the usual answer is that "hes had a bad life,its his parents fault etc etc" but genuinely knowing this lad and his background and circumstances I genuinely feel that I have to stand up for him. I gave him all the chances under the sun to sort himself out even leaving the position open for months in the hope that we would get his act together but its obvious that he hasn't. Im here thinking to myself was there any more that I could have done for the lad..could I have done anything else for him.

I can see a pretty bad future for him if he doesn't sort his life out.

Kerryfootball · 07-06-2014 07:06PM

Young lads are impressionable at the best of times.
I commend anyone who tries to give this kids dirrection and principles.
Personally I don't know how you do it given the challenges you face.

5uspect · 07-06-2014 07:07PM

From what I gathered from the video first kid wasn't under arrest, the cop told the other kids that he had a duty of care towards him because he was injured.

The other two got arrested for their behaviour.

darkpagandeath · 07-06-2014 07:07PM

Right Turn Clyde wrote: »

Talk about missing the point.

That camera phone years ago were mad money and decent smart phones are still mad money ? Or you talking about the uploading part ?

D1stant · 07-06-2014 07:11PM

Hellrazer wrote: »

I can see a pretty bad future for him if he doesn't sort his life out.

I can see a pretty bad future for us if we don't sort these kinds of kids out. This crap has to stop.

steddyeddy · 07-06-2014 07:13PM

WellThen? wrote: »

I'd say that was hard for you to watch so. 1 step forward, 3 steps back. Mostly just deciding whether the Gardai were correct in their actions here, which i would say they are. Can't just let people away with that kind of carry on, regardless of their circumstances. Hope the lad gets back on track and stops wasting peoples time.

Jesus. It was just mentioned that the lad hadn't got an ideal upbringing. People in those circumstances are trying to survive despite the crappy hand life has given them. They didn't just decide one day they are going to waste people's time. It takes years of counselling and positive life events to turn around a kids life.

Hellrazer · 07-06-2014 07:16PM

D1stant wrote: »

I can see a pretty bad future for us if we don't sort these kinds of kids out. This crap has to stop.

How do you suggest we sort them out??
I try by giving even the most hardened cases a chance at a job because I feel that that's whats going to give them a head start.
It also keeps them off the streets so it stops them acting like this in the video.

catallus · 07-06-2014 07:17PM

Hellrazer wrote: »

Im not saying the guards were wrong..I completely agree with the garda on this one.

He was mouthy and deserved to get arrested.

My point is that and I know its a cliché here in AH that the usual answer is that "hes had a bad life,its his parents fault etc etc" but genuinely knowing this lad and his background and circumstances I genuinely feel that I have to stand up for him. I gave him all the chances under the sun to sort himself out even leaving the position open for months in the hope that we would get his act together but its obvious that he hasn't. Im here thinking to myself was there any more that I could have done for the lad..could I have done anything else for him.

I can't get my head around your viewpoint.

Your compassion is woefully misplaced; you yourself said earlier that he deliberately and consciously acts in an aggressive hardman manner (you say he pretends) depending on who he is in physical proximity to.

This kid must be laughing his head off at you.

There's a lot to be said for kindness and compassion for people, but it comes to a point where it becomes reckless foolishness; showing these human stains anything but physical punishment and draconian justice is folly.

Right Turn Clyde · 07-06-2014 07:18PM

darkpagandeath wrote: »

That camera phone years ago were mad money and decent smart phones are still mad money ? Or you talking about the uploading part ?

Phones have been able to record video for a long time. Even the most basic models nowadays have that function. The fact that one of the guys is capturing the action on his phone does not mean he has a 'smart phone'. That's all I'm saying.

steddyeddy · 07-06-2014 07:19PM

catallus wrote: »

I can't get my head around your viewpoint.

Your compassion is woefully misplaced; you yourself said earlier that he deliberately and consciously acts in an aggressive hardman manner (you say he pretends) depending on who he is in physical proximity to.

This kid must be laughing his head off at you.

There's a lot to be said for kindness and compassion for people, but it comes to a point where it becomes reckless foolishness; showing these human stains anything but physical punishment and draconian justice is folly.

So you're an tabula rasa follower or do you believe in inborn behavioural patterns?

catallus · 07-06-2014 07:20PM

steddyeddy wrote: »

So you're an tabula rasa follower or do you believe in inborn behavioural patterns?

Ya wha?

Smidge · 07-06-2014 07:24PM

catallus wrote: »

I can't get my head around your viewpoint.

Your compassion is woefully misplaced; you yourself said earlier that he deliberately and consciously acts in an aggressive hardman manner (you say he pretends) depending on who he is in physical proximity to.

This kid must be laughing his head off at you.

There's a lot to be said for kindness and compassion for people, but it comes to a point where it becomes reckless foolishness; showing these human stains anything but physical punishment and draconian justice is folly.

Nice

Edit I didn't insert a sarcastic smiley.....I regret that now

.jacksparrow. · 07-06-2014 07:24PM

catallus wrote: »

Ya wha?

I think he means nature or nurture.

Either way their behaviour isn't acceptable in a normal functioning society.

Their is plenty of kids who have had **** backgrounds but turn out ok.

No wonder our justice system is so lenient, just get someone to stand in front of a judge and explain how they had a terrible upbringing and background.

steddyeddy · 07-06-2014 07:26PM

catallus wrote: »

Ya wha?

Tabula rasa is Latin for blank slate. It's used in psychology to imply that we are shaped by our environment. A child acting out because of a certain upbringing should be helped and understood not punished or criticised. If he did wrong fair enough deal with it but understand that we are often the product of our environment.

The Red Ace · 07-06-2014 07:29PM

Ah shure the boyos were only learning their trade give em a chance, TBH I think the guards did a 99% professional job, where they erred was that they did not stick the boyo with the phone in the cop car take the phone off him and scrub the video especially after he loud mouthing about his camera expertise

Tail Docker · 07-06-2014 07:29PM

Hootanany wrote: »

Yes i agree but gards should be arresting real crims not kids

Won't happen. I watched a group of "hardy bucks" - the real hard chaws - kick seven shades of crap out of each other on a main street, weapons were used and people were properly hurt - the Gardai took a role of observers, not a hope was anyone manhandled or arrested or swung around into the back of cars. Mainly as they'd very likely get a clatter back...

.jacksparrow. · 07-06-2014 07:30PM

steddyeddy wrote: »

Tabula rasa is Latin for blank slate. It's used in psychology to imply that we are shaped by our environment. A child acting out because of a certain upbringing should be helped and understood not punished or criticised. If he did wrong fair enough deal with it but understand that we are often the product of our environment.

How can you explain one bad kid from a large family who are respectful and never get into trouble.

catallus · 07-06-2014 07:32PM

steddyeddy wrote: »

Tabula rasa is Latin for blank slate. It's used in psychology to imply that we are shaped by our environment.

Thank you for explaining that to me.

My confusion is due to my still failing to understand what possible bearing that has on this thread!

steddyeddy wrote: »

A child acting out because of a certain upbringing should be helped and understood not punished or criticised.

Nonsense!

steddyeddy · 07-06-2014 07:34PM

.jacksparrow. wrote: »

How can you explain one bad kid from a large family who are respectful and never get into trouble.

Epigenetic modifications resulting in remodelling of chromatin having an effect on neural plasticity.

07-06-2014 07:36PM

steddyeddy wrote: »

Jesus. It was just mentioned that the lad hadn't got an ideal upbringing. People in those circumstances are trying to survive despite the crappy hand life has given them. They didn't just decide one day they are going to waste people's time. It takes years of counselling and positive life events to turn around a kids life.

So everyone without an ideal upbringing is entitled to act like a little brat?
I would have thought that only a very very minute number of people across the world have had an ideal upbringing. It would be nice if we could all get years of counselling and positive life events to help us cope with life, but that's not really a viable option. The only real option is to take some responsibility for yourself and have at least enough cop on to not get yourself arrested. Whatever about acting the maggot as a kid, or being a bit cheeky/arrogant, but thinking they can take on two gardaí by shouting that they're only kids and trying to threaten the gardaí with filming them shows a serious lack of any personal responsibility.

Maybe they learnt a lesson there. Maybe they didn't. But it probably made a much bigger difference than giving them 'positive life events'.

steddyeddy · 07-06-2014 07:39PM

catallus wrote: »

Thank you for explaining that to me.

My confusion is due to my still failing to understand what possible bearing that has on this thread!

Nonsense!

So lets take a child who was raised in a foster home or something like that. The child might come from a violent home or be placed into care where he/she will be exposed to drug use, violence, crime ect. The kid might pick up on those or see no better life for himself or herself because lets face it they have no reason to be otherwise. You think the best answer to them is to go in and use force against them? You don't think offering counselling, opportunities in life or social care might be a better way to stop crime.

tayto lover · 07-06-2014 07:41PM

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Nobody seems to be addressing the societal double standard here. If being disrespectful warrants a hiding, then this should apply equally to everyone, Gardai included.

Did I miss part of that clip?
I saw no hiding.

Hootanany · 07-06-2014 07:45PM

tayto lover wrote: »

Did I miss part of that clip?
I saw no hiding.

Just Brutality

07-06-2014 07:45PM

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Have lived in Australia, Kids don't talk back or act up to police with guns, You are told 1 time you are not cooperating adult's as well, Then you eat pavement if you continue to be uncooperative. I'm sure everyone has seen reality cop shows from USA and other places were they take zero nonsense.

And then they go around abusing power, shooting people with no knock warrants and hospitalising babies
Great stuff yea

steddyeddy · 07-06-2014 07:45PM

tayto lover wrote: »

Did I miss part of that clip?
I saw no hiding.

I think the point being made is a lot of people on these sort of threads want the gaurds to assault the kids to "teach them a lesson". In their eyes this is a well thought out plan that will reduce crime and definitely result in the kids respecting the gaurds a lot more.

hatrickpatrick · 07-06-2014 07:46PM

Right Turn Clyde wrote: »

Come on now, they didn't get a hiding. Stop exaggerating.

I never said they did, but several people in this thread suggested that they should have, or more generally that people who are disrespectful to the Gardai deserve a hiding to teach them some manners.

I am simply asking those people if they would apply the same principle to disrespectful Gardai. If not, they are espousing the pervasive Irish double standard which places the establishment on a pedestal and is the root cause of our problems with the church, bankers, politicians, Gardai, and so on and so forth.

Kids arrested for mouthing at Gardai (video)

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