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Cyclists mega-thread (WARNING: Before posting you must read post #1)

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Comments

  • #332
    Hilly Bill
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,050 ✭✭✭Hilly Bill


    monument wrote: »
    I'm guessing he thinks he gets that when people swing cars and buses ontop of him or otherwise endanger him! ;)

    He put himself in danger but because he is a fellow cyclist you dont mention it.

    He was at the rear of the bus when it moved in for a reason only the bus driver knows. The cyclists saw this and still cycled faster on the inside of the bus putting himself in danger and then moved into the front of the bus just to annoy the bus driver. Is it a coincidence that fellow cyclists will blame others before one of their own?


  • #333
    CramCycle
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,004 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    Hilly Bill wrote: »
    He put himself in danger but because he is a fellow cyclist you dont mention it.

    He was at the rear of the bus when it moved in for a reason only the bus driver knows. The cyclists saw this and still cycled faster on the inside of the bus putting himself in danger and then moved into the front of the bus just to annoy the bus driver. Is it a coincidence that fellow cyclists will blame others before one of their own?

    That's rubbish, the bus put him in danger as it pulled in noticeably when he was half way up the inside. In hindsight the best (IMO) option would have been to slam on the brakes and let him cross over but as he was already traveling at speed, he might not be fully aware of who is behind him, the rush of adrenaline as your life is put at risk, he has several reasons why he sped up to get out the gap. Was he correct, I don't think so but he made it so maybe his reading of the situation was right. He pulled in front of the bus as if he kept going at the speed to clear the bus without pulling over he would have creamed the person in front and if he slowed down he would have been in the drivers blind spot.

    The bus caused the near incident and the danger but the cyclist probably could have reacted better. Any sense they both would learn from it, the driver to use his mirrors and to better estimate traffic approaching from the rear, the cyclist to possibly react more for his own safety but as I said, he may have though it was the only option.


  • #334
    monument
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 14,109 Mod ✭✭✭✭monument


    Hilly Bill wrote: »
    He put himself in danger but because he is a fellow cyclist you dont mention it.

    He was at the rear of the bus when it moved in for a reason only the bus driver knows. The cyclists saw this and still cycled faster on the inside of the bus putting himself in danger and then moved into the front of the bus just to annoy the bus driver. Is it a coincidence that fellow cyclists will blame others before one of their own?

    You need to get over the cyclist vs motorists -- it's people making mistakes and we should be looking at what has happened, not what type of road user they are or you or I are.

    While the person cycling might have reacted better, he was only reacting to the driver's poor driving.

    On the face of it the bus driver's actions should be against the law on a number of counts -- entering a solid lined cycle lane, moving in without rightly observing that there's a cyclist in the space, moving in before indicating, overtaking a second person on a bike just seconds before moving in, opening the bus doors without being at a kerb (likely against Dublin Bus rules but it should also be illegal too), and telling somebody they'll kill them (regardless of if it's implied that it'll be the victim's own fault.

    Note: I'm saying should be illegal, should be against the law -- I can't say for sure the actions are so.


  • #335
    Hilly Bill
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,050 ✭✭✭Hilly Bill


    monument wrote: »
    You need to get over the cyclist vs motorists -- it's people making mistakes and we should be looking at what has happened, not what type of road user they are or you or I are.

    While the person cycling might have reacted better, he was only reacting to the driver's poor driving.

    On the face of it the bus driver's actions should be against the law on a number of counts -- entering a solid lined cycle lane, moving in without rightly observing that there's a cyclist in the space, moving in before indicating, overtaking a second person on a bike just seconds before moving in, opening the bus doors without being at a kerb (likely against Dublin Bus rules but it should also be illegal too), and telling somebody they'll kill them (regardless of if it's implied that it'll be the victim's own fault.

    Note: I'm saying should be illegal, should be against the law -- I can't say for sure the actions are so.
    Cyclist v motorists? Why are you trying to make something out of nothing? S
    I dont need to get over anything Monument, i read it as i see it , try it sometime it usually helps to see an impartial side to things instead of the side you favour. Thats a strange comment to make by a moderator.
    So the bus moved a bit into a bike lane, its no big deal. It happens, the clip doesnt show what was happening on the other side.
    The loon with the head cam wasnt in the space at the time the bus moved in, he moved into that space afterwards just to make an issue out of it.How do you know the driver didnt check his mirrors first?
    The driver doesnt say anything about that he is going to kill him, are you looking at the same clip or just going by the OTT title of the clip by your fellow cyclist. What was said and you may know already is that if the cyclist keeps riding like he does he will end up dead. Trying to spin it for affect make him out to be a loon.
    If the cyclist was as shaken as he said he was then why did he chase the bus in the middle of the road and even turn around and not even look where he was going?
    The bus was pulled into a bus stop when it let people off the bus. The loon was that selfish that he doesnt care that he could have caused a serious accident with his road rage.


  • #336
    Spook_ie
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,896 ✭✭✭✭Spook_ie


    From motoring
    Spook_ie wrote: »
    Actually if you look at the clip immediate start is a guy in a red T Shirt over taking (love the 1.5m Gap he gives the bus and the other Q )

    At 6 secs you should also notice there is a cyclist pulls over from the cyclist lane across the front of the bus ( You can see the cyclist at 11 secs through the windscreen of the bus )

    I therefore put it to the court that bus driver was actually taking avoiding action from the 2nd cyclist and to prevent injury to that cyclist and to his passengers he slowed and veered left and indicated ( all in a space of 4-5 seconds ) The camera man ( in hindsight ) should have taken account of other traffic and cyclists before berating the driver.

    BTW After replaying it umpteen times the driver actually says
    "If you wanna die, just go in front of me, I'll run you over no problem"
    Probably not the best choice of words but I don't get an implied threat there, more of a warning about his cycling behavior, probably in response to him crossing in front of the bus


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  • #337
    monument
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 14,109 Mod ✭✭✭✭monument


    Hilly Bill wrote: »
    Thats a strange comment to make by a moderator.

    Talking about moderation, including my status as a moderator won't be tolerated. Note: I have not moderated your comments and I was not even slight acting as a mod in my last post.

    If I abuse my position there's robust means of dealing with this.

    You really need to read the sections of the charter dealing with moderation, and, more generally, the sections of focusing on the poster rather than their post.

    - moderator


  • #338
    monument
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 14,109 Mod ✭✭✭✭monument


    Hilly Bill wrote: »
    Cyclist v motorists? Why are you trying to make something out of nothing? S
    I dont need to get over anything Monument, i read it as i see it , try it sometime it usually helps to see an impartial side to things instead of the side you favour.

    If you want to look at things impartial, deal with what I've said and not with the fact that I'm a cyclist.

    Hilly Bill wrote: »
    So the bus moved a bit into a bike lane, its no big deal. It happens, the clip doesnt show what was happening on the other side.

    It's a big deal with there's a cyclist inside that cycle lane.


    Hilly Bill wrote: »
    The loon with the head cam wasnt in the space at the time the bus moved in, he moved into that space afterwards just to make an issue out of it.

    He was in the cycle lane and alongside the bus when the bus driver entered the cycle lane.

    I've already agreed that the cyclist could have acted better and by that I mean slowed down etc.

    The cyclist was more than half way up the bus when the driver kept moving it. It looks to be a misjudgment but maybe the cyclist spotted what he viewed in a split second to be a safter way out by speeding up?

    Hilly Bill wrote: »
    How do you know the driver didnt check his mirrors first?

    What did I say? Have a look back.

    Hilly Bill wrote: »
    The driver doesnt say anything about that he is going to kill him, are you looking at the same clip or just going by the OTT title of the clip by your fellow cyclist. What was said and you may know already is that if the cyclist keeps riding like he does he will end up dead.

    Spook is hardly a cyclist's best friend and yet look what he thinks the driver said.

    Hilly Bill wrote: »
    If the cyclist was as shaken as he said he was then why did he chase the bus in the middle of the road and even turn around and not even look where he was going?

    An adrenaline rush and nearly getting knocked over by a large bus can aid people in doing silly things.

    Hilly Bill wrote: »
    The bus was pulled into a bus stop when it let people off the bus. The loon was that selfish that he doesnt care that he could have caused a serious accident with his road rage.

    The bus was NOT pulled into the bus stop. The video clearly shows that the bus is outside the bus stop markings where he stopped.

    Maybe you're watching a different video?


  • #339
    CramCycle
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,004 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    Hilly Bill wrote: »
    He put himself in danger but because he is a fellow cyclist you dont mention it.

    Please stop using this phrase as it is what monument is referring to. We are not a homogeneous group, like all other road users, we are individuals, just because one DB driver does not merge properly/safely does not mean they all do, as with cyclists, one guy making a poor decision does not mean all cyclists do. Not all motorists sit on yellow boxes and amber gamble etc. Get my point?


  • #340
    CramCycle
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,004 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    Originally Posted by Spook_ie viewpost.gif
    Actually if you look at the clip immediate start is a guy in a red T Shirt over taking (love the 1.5m Gap he gives the bus and the other Q )
    The next time you see this guy at the end of the video he has merged into the right lane of traffic as he had correctly started to merge over well before the right turn he was planning to take.
    At 6 secs you should also notice there is a cyclist pulls over from the cyclist lane across the front of the bus ( You can see the cyclist at 11 secs through the windscreen of the bus )
    And, he merged well before the bus was there, not sure why he is being brought into it.
    I therefore put it to the court that bus driver was actually taking avoiding action from the 2nd cyclist and to prevent injury to that cyclist and to his passengers he slowed and veered left and indicated ( all in a space of 4-5 seconds ) The camera man ( in hindsight ) should have taken account of other traffic and cyclists before berating the driver.
    Veered left for who? the guy in the red can be seen in a seperate lane of traffic, the guy in front was in front. If he wanted to avoid any of those cyclists all he needed to do was either a) nothing, they were not interfering with him or b) slow down
    BTW After replaying it umpteen times the driver actually says
    "If you wanna die, just go in front of me, I'll run you over no problem"
    Probably not the best choice of words but I don't get an implied threat there, more of a warning about his cycling behavior, probably in response to him crossing in front of the bus
    I agree with you here, I think in the moment, adrenaline and sarcasm got intertwined. He may have said it but I don't think he actually meant if you are in front of me I will run you over. Still an incredibly stupid statement though, pulling over to say it was equally stupid, he was miles away from the bus stop I presume he pulled in for.


  • #341
    Losty Dublin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,272 ✭✭✭✭Losty Dublin


    monument wrote: »
    You need to get over the cyclist vs motorists -- it's people making mistakes and we should be looking at what has happened, not what type of road user they are or you or I are.

    While the person cycling might have reacted better, he was only reacting to the driver's poor driving.

    On the face of it the bus driver's actions should be against the law on a number of counts -- entering a solid lined cycle lane, moving in without rightly observing that there's a cyclist in the space, moving in before indicating, overtaking a second person on a bike just seconds before moving in, opening the bus doors without being at a kerb (likely against Dublin Bus rules but it should also be illegal too), and telling somebody they'll kill them (regardless of if it's implied that it'll be the victim's own fault.

    Note: I'm saying should be illegal, should be against the law -- I can't say for sure the actions are so.

    It's rather hard for a large bus to stay out of the cycle lane on Arran Quay as the traffic lanes there are little narrow, especially when there is traffic on the outside lane to contend with. A lot of motorists and cyclists don't entertain this or the fact that buses and trucks need a little bit more room to manoeuvre around them or other obstacles on the road.

    Whatever we may think of them, bus drivers for Dublin Bus are exceptionally well trained. They undergo driving testing to get their B and D licences, they have additional driver training on their respective classes of bus they drive and their CPC passes as well as regular refresher and inspections; more than any cyclist or car driver got, that's for sure. The cyclist should not be cutting inside buses or trucks regardless of cycle lanes being in situ. It is plain dangerous and it is an argument that a bike will not win, right or wrongs. By the looks of this guys Youtube channel, he seems to have a penchant for encountering dangerous drivers; thankfully he is a small minority when it comes to road users on two wheels.


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  • #342
    Tenzor07
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,383 ✭✭✭Tenzor07


    Hilly Bill wrote: »
    So the bus moved a bit into a bike lane, its no big deal. It happens, the clip doesnt show what was happening on the other side.
    The bus was pulled into a bus stop when it let people off the bus. The loon was that selfish that he doesnt care that he could have caused a serious accident with his road rage.

    So, no big deal eh? If you were driving your car and a much larger vehicle started to stray into your lane without indicating what would you do?

    The basic fact here is the bus driver didn't check his mirrors before moving in, and didn't indicate when he first moved in, and the bus stop was still further up the road so he didn't need to come into the kerb at that point, and in doing so he crossed a solid white line when he did not need to.

    No one is saying the bicyclist was an angel though, and would he have done the same manoeuvre in front of the bus if it was an 18 wheel crane truck? Not unless he was feeling suicidal! but on the road the responsibility goes from the largest road user down to the smallest.


  • #343
    Spook_ie
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,896 ✭✭✭✭Spook_ie


    CramCycle wrote: »
    The next time you see this guy at the end of the video he has merged into the right lane of traffic as he had correctly started to merge over well before the right turn he was planning to take.

    And, he merged well before the bus was there, not sure why he is being brought into it.

    Veered left for who? the guy in the red can be seen in a seperate lane of traffic, the guy in front was in front. If he wanted to avoid any of those cyclists all he needed to do was either a) nothing, they were not interfering with him or b) slow down


    I agree with you here, I think in the moment, adrenaline and sarcasm got intertwined. He may have said it but I don't think he actually meant if you are in front of me I will run you over. Still an incredibly stupid statement though, pulling over to say it was equally stupid, he was miles away from the bus stop I presume he pulled in for.

    The 2nd guy, the one who veered from the cycle lane to turn right is part of the reason why the driver would have veered left, he made an instinctive call to slow and pull left to give that cyclist more room, at 12 seconds you can see that he is still on the left side of the white line, the bus driver is between a rock and a hard place does he

    A Hit The Cyclist
    B Hit the anchors and injure people on the bus ( as one passenger is seen to exit the bus It's a fair assumption she was probably standing at the time )
    C Slow and make an instinctive move to the left and indicate as he manouvres

    Neither of the options is an ideal but option C would probably have seemed the lessor of the 3 at the time

    As to the stop itself it's quite conceviable that given a cyclist doing a U-Turn in front of him that he may have not been able to complete a tidy manouvre and ended up stuck there


  • #344
    hoodwinked
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,175 ✭✭✭hoodwinked


    Tenzor07 wrote: »
    So, no big deal eh? If you were driving your car and a much larger vehicle started to stray into your lane without indicating what would you do?
    .

    not find myself on the left hand side of a larger vehicle? you are completely in their blind spots and most buses and trucks have signs warning you not to drive there,

    i would assume the same applies to cyclists more so?

    honestly if i was cycling in that situation i would have stayed behind the bus, or overtook the bus, not undertake it and risk myself being squashed by a large vehicle where the driver cannot see me. expect the unexpected and all that.....


  • #345
    Tenzor07
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,383 ✭✭✭Tenzor07


    hoodwinked wrote: »
    not find myself on the left hand side of a larger vehicle? you are completely in their blind spots and most buses and trucks have signs warning you not to drive there,
    i would assume the same applies to cyclists more so?

    Having warning signs or stickers on the back of your vehicle doesn't absolve you from the responsibilities of checking your mirrors and indicating in good time?


  • #346
    hoodwinked
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,175 ✭✭✭hoodwinked


    Tenzor07 wrote: »
    Having warning signs or stickers on the back of your vehicle doesn't absolve you from the responsibilities of checking your mirrors and indicating in good time?

    no but staying away from the blind spot on large vehicles can save your life and stop you getting squished.


  • #347
    Tenzor07
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,383 ✭✭✭Tenzor07


    Thanks for the advice.


  • #348
    seamus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 68,190 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    Spook_ie wrote: »
    The 2nd guy, the onje who veered from the cycle lane to turn rightis part of the reason why the driver would have veered left, he made an instinctive call to slow and pull left to give that cyclist more room
    The speed differential clearly isn't that big. There is already one cyclist in the cycle lane and another in the bus lane, so he's not moving at any great speed. The appropriate response here would clearly be to take your foot off the accelerator and/or brake gently.
    I don't disagree that he was probably moving left to move around the right-turning bike, but that doesn't excuse his failure to check his left side.
    Given that a Dublin Bus has a 23 tonne kerb weight, then when faced with the option of hitting the brakes or moving left without checking your left side, then braking is clearly the preferable option. 40 injured bus passengers are preferable to one dead cyclist.

    There is a lot more being made of this than there needs to be. The driver's clearly not the best communicator in the world, and we all know that he was basically trying to say is, "Look, I'm driving a big fecking vehicle and if you act the maggot around it, you're going to get flattened". The driver could do with a crash course in defensive driving though, he's not giving himself much wiggle room in his maneuvers.
    The cyclist likewise could do with being slapped with a bit of common sense. There are so many clear reasons why he should never have started that overtake, which would have avoided the whole incident.


  • #349
    patrickbrophy18
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,317 ✭✭✭patrickbrophy18


    Having watched the video, the bus driver acted entirely unprofessional. He clearly forgot one of the mandatory rules of driving when he was pulling into the stop. When making a stop in this manner, you're supposed to check your mirrors, activate your signal indicators and move in (if it is safe to do so). Given that the cyclist was on the inside of the bus, the driver should have waited for the cyclist to pass before moving towards the path. Thank god the cyclist wasn't crushed as it could have been a lot worse.
    monument wrote: »
    On the face of it the bus driver's actions should be against the law on a number of counts -- entering a solid lined cycle lane, moving in without rightly observing that there's a cyclist in the space, moving in before indicating, overtaking a second person on a bike just seconds before moving in, opening the bus doors without being at a kerb (likely against Dublin Bus rules but it should also be illegal too), and telling somebody they'll kill them (regardless of if it's implied that it'll be the victim's own fault.

    The word in bold is the most crucial factor in being a safe driver as it enables the driver to anticipate the actions of other (vulnerable) road users.

    While the fault in this case is mostly that of the bus driver, I do put some of the blame on the abysmal design of the road in question. The lack of proper segregation coupled with the miniscule width of the cycle lane make it all to easy for buses to collide with cyclists. As a would-be cyclist, I would be terrified of using the cycle lane as there is very little clearance between myself and the bus. Going by the perspective of the cyclists camera, the cycle lane appears to be only 1 meter in width. Either that, or there isn't much in it. Cycle lanes should be a minimum of 1.5 meters in width. Sadly, in many cases, the cycle lane and bus lane are one in the same. The Rock Road QBC comes to mind. If a QBC is to be built, there should be a minimum width set to accommodate all modes comfortably and (most important of all) safely.


  • #350
    AlekSmart
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,004 ✭✭✭✭AlekSmart


    Spook_ie wrote: »
    .
    As to the stop itself it's quite conceviable that given a cyclist doing a U-Turn in front of him that he may have not been able to complete a tidy manouvre and ended up stuck there

    Without going into any further exchanges regarding the ongoing campaign to perceive Cyclists = Right vs Busdrivers = Wrong,I would prefer to richochet a wee bit to the location of the Bus-Stop to which Spook_ie refers,Stop 1477, which (hopefully) is easier to appreciate from the air....(Using the zoom and pan features)

    https://www.dublinbus.ie/en/Examples/Google-Map/?routeNumber=145&direction=IO&towards=Kilmacanogue&from=Heuston+Rail+Station

    I would invite any interested parties to comment upon the,supposedly professional,process which firstly relocated a previous non-contentious Stop outside of the,now disused Arran Quay Church, to this ablolutely batshyt crazy location.

    I would have little hesitation in calling for some form of inquiry into the professional competence of whatever Civic or Garda functionary signed off on Stop 1477's location.

    The actual Stop,and persons standing at it,remain largely invisible to an approaching busdriver until very late on an approach,which tends to encourage,or even enforce belated acute manouvere's of the :(21 :( BAC routes required to serve this Stop.

    Viewed from above,the lack of ANY professional design acumen is all the more apparent....The actual BAC stopping bay is curved,and bracketed by,firstly,a Disabled Parking Bay (:eek:) then a Delivery Bay (:eek: :eek:)

    Any bus,having addressed the Stop (NB: it is impossible for many of BAC's current vehicle types to correctly and safely address it)then must exit it,within a VERY short stretch of roadway, by crossing at an acute angle into & through the Left-Turn Only Lane (Into Church St) AND a solid bordered Cycle Lane to re-enter the Bus Lane and then yet again track left to attain the now Left Hand Bus-Lane on Inns Quay.

    It is,quite simply,one of the most workload intensive stretches of roadway along which BAC drivers operate,and this workload on the "average" driver is at extreme levels here,which were this in the aviation field,would have resulted in the removal of this inherently unsafe Stop long ago.

    The Stop has,since it's inception,been the subject of strong representations from concerned Individual Busdrivers,Trade Union Reps AND Health & Safety Reps to BAC Management,Garda Siochana,Dublin City Council and I understand the RSA...however despite initial rumours that the Stop had comprehensively failed a Risk-Assessment,it remains standing proud as testimony to potentially fatal official intransigence.

    I would also point out that the Bus Bay,also serves as a "Stop" for BOTH competing Open Top City Tours,with the attendant longer dwell times associated with their operations,which overlays yet another layer of danger onto the 21 routes required to "serve" it.

    With the imminent expansion of the DublinBikes scheme,particularly in the Heuston Station area,I would suggest that ALL interested parties take a more active interest in encouraging "The Civic Authorities" to become pro-active in ensuring blatently dangerous and unsustainable Traffic Situations such as exist at Stop 1477,are not proceeded with in the fiirst place,rather than the all to familiar Admiral Nelson approach of blind-eyeing it until the (I believe inevitable) fatality occurs.


    Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one.

    Charles Mackay (1812-1889)



  • #351
    Seaswimmer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,994 ✭✭✭Seaswimmer


    patrickbrophy18 wrote: »
    .

    As a would-be cyclist,

    Hey Patrick. Knew we would sign you up eventually. Dont forget to come on over to the cycling forum..


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  • #352
    CramCycle
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,004 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    AlekSmart wrote: »
    The Stop has,since it's inception,been the subject of strong representations from concerned Individual Busdrivers,Trade Union Reps AND Health & Safety Reps to BAC Management,Garda Siochana,Dublin City Council and I understand the RSA...however despite initial rumours that the Stop had comprehensively failed a Risk-Assessment,it remains standing proud as testimony to potentially fatal official intransigence.

    My understanding though is that the AGS have the power to simply say no, this is unsafe and warn DB and all other bus services not to use this stop. They require no talking with the bus services, they just tell them no, and that should be that?

    Or have I been misinformed?


  • #353
    Hilly Bill
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,050 ✭✭✭Hilly Bill


    CramCycle wrote: »
    Please stop using this phrase as it is what monument is referring to. We are not a homogeneous group, like all other road users, we are individuals, just because one DB driver does not merge properly/safely does not mean they all do, as with cyclists, one guy making a poor decision does not mean all cyclists do. Not all motorists sit on yellow boxes and amber gamble etc. Get my point?

    No i dont get your point.


  • #354
    Hilly Bill
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,050 ✭✭✭Hilly Bill


    Tenzor07 wrote: »
    So, no big deal eh? If you were driving your car and a much larger vehicle started to stray into your lane without indicating what would you do?

    The basic fact here is the bus driver didn't check his mirrors before moving in, and didn't indicate when he first moved in, and the bus stop was still further up the road so he didn't need to come into the kerb at that point, and in doing so he crossed a solid white line when he did not need to.

    No one is saying the bicyclist was an angel though, and would he have done the same manoeuvre in front of the bus if it was an 18 wheel crane truck? Not unless he was feeling suicidal! but on the road the responsibility goes from the largest road user down to the smallest.

    I'll tell you what i wouldnt do, i wouldnt speed up on the inside and then cut in front of it and then chase it on the other side to have a go at the driver.


  • #355
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    The driver wasn't pulling into the bus stop or avoiding the cyclists going right, he was pulling merging left so to move into the left lane before the lights. So he would cross into the bus lane on the other side. Anyone who cycles the quay regularly would know that most buses pull left there, either for the stop or simply to move into the left lane. The driver forgot to indicate is my guess, or just has a habit of doing it late. Lots of people do. Buses and taxi's are especially bad for it. Mainly when pulling out.

    But it was poor judgement of the cyclist to go up the inside of a bus, especially at that location. I assume the driver wasn't expecting once he started moving in the cyclist would undertake. Just because there's a cycle lane doesn't mean you should go up the inside of a bus like that. Never mind then pull in front then across to the right side of the bus. Seems to me it was that pulling out in front of a bus that the drivers comment is about. I don't think there was any malice in it. Going up the inside a left moving heavy vehicle is such a dumb move. That the cyclist did that suggest its become a habit. Why does everyone have the need to be in front. once you're through the lights, you've all the space in the world. But that point on the quay is a pinch point. Dumb to squeeze through.

    Rather fixing blame. There's a lot to be learned from driver and cyclist here.


  • #356
    AlekSmart
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,004 ✭✭✭✭AlekSmart


    CramCycle wrote: »
    My understanding though is that the AGS have the power to simply say no, this is unsafe and warn DB and all other bus services not to use this stop. They require no talking with the bus services, they just tell them no, and that should be that?

    Or have I been misinformed?

    This,I understand,is no longer the case.

    It appears that since last year (2013),the Garda role is no longer the dominant one in the procedure.

    The new situation is outlined here.....

    http://www.nationaltransport.ie/taxi-and-bus-licensing/bus/latest-news-for-bus-operators/

    So,once again,a certain level of clarity has been surrendered in the interest of..????


    Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one.

    Charles Mackay (1812-1889)



  • #357
    CramCycle
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,004 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    Hilly Bill wrote: »
    No i dont get your point.

    a fellow cyclist

    as if we have secret group, or are all on in on it together (whatever "it" is). Your comments make it sound like the likes of monument and other cyclists who may post here, would defend him because of some imagined "one of us" mentality, regardless of where the fault lies. For myself, and I presume monument from his comments, that's simply not true, maybe we are simply not liked by all the other cyclists.

    The secret society of no Monuments and CramCycles ;)


  • #358
    Tenzor07
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,383 ✭✭✭Tenzor07


    Hilly Bill wrote: »
    I'll tell you what i wouldnt do, i wouldnt speed up on the inside and then cut in front of it and then chase it on the other side to have a go at the driver.

    Why don't you tell us what you would do? Calmly back off I'm sure! :rolleyes:


  • #359
    steveblack
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 145 ✭✭steveblack


    The fact that all Comments are disabled on liams youtube videos speaks volumes. Might not like what people think of him?
    Upload the full videos, not just the highlights, show a couple of minutes before the incidents so we can see if he is such a flawless road user.
    How many times did he break the rules of the road before and after his encounter with the bus?
    Upload the full video and let us judge if you are a genuine victim or some idiot who puts himself in dangerous situations.


  • #360
    monument
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 14,109 Mod ✭✭✭✭monument


    It's a dreadfully designed bus stop -- it should be removed without question and regardless of the incident in question.

    Back to that -- there's still a lot of claims which don't seem to be supported by the video (like trying to claim the driver was not letting a passenger off), so let's resort to stills...

    The bus is parallel or near parallel to the cycle lane line just before the cyclist goes in along side of it -- so not much of a sign that the driver is merging:

    309978.JPG

    This point is over 100m before the solid white line turns to a broken line before the bus stop:

    309981.JPG

    Driver goes over the line -- note cyclist is already passing rear set of wheels:

    309983.JPG

    First time indicator is visible:

    Note the closest cyclist ahead -- the lamp beside him is only ~33m from the corner:

    309982.JPG


    Here's that cyclist again on the left:

    309984.JPG

    (continues on the next post...)


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  • #361
    monument
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 14,109 Mod ✭✭✭✭monument


    Let's REWIND for a second...

    There's the bus behind the second cyclist and inside the cycle lane and there's also cyclists on the right of the bus:

    309985.JPG

    So, given that the bus is only ~33m from the corner and there's cyclists close by on the outside, you'd think the bus might slow down and go in behind the cyclist on the left?

    Not a chance the bus goes around the second cyclist too and pulls up outside of the bus stop markings:

    309993.JPG

    309994.JPG

    And opens the door outside of the bus stop and that distance away from the kerb:

    309995.JPG

    Where a passenger exits:
    309996.JPG


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