Cyclists mega-thread (WARNING: Before posting you must read post #1)

CramCycle

Vet Thrower wrote: »

Nobody has answered the question though. How would you like it if you had to deal with large, and constantly growing, numbers of people on unicycles, scooters and skateboards during your daily commute?

Scooter and at least two skateboards on the donnybrook/N11 road every evening with an increasing number of rollerbladers in the city centre. I tend to overtake them, its not rocket science.

Vet Thrower wrote: »

I was wondering how cyclists would feel about an analogous situation, but nobody was willing to answer honestly. It wasn't really much of a surprise.

Correction, lots of people answered, you just either ignored or did not believe them.

Danjamin1

Vet Thrower wrote: »

It was a hypothetical question. Motorists have had to adapt to sharing the roads with large numbers of people on slower, less predictable modes of transport.

I was wondering how cyclists would feel about an analogous situation, but nobody was willing to answer honestly. It wasn't really much of a surprise.

I answered it twice and you ignored it twice. And other people answered it as well. You're just being ignorant because you seen to think you've made some kind of point

No Pants

Vet Thrower wrote: »

nobody was willing to answer honestly.

Really? :rolleyes:

No one gave you the answer you wanted.

Vet Thrower wrote: »

It wasn't really much of a surprise.

I'll bet it wasn't since you seem to have substituted the answers you received by whatever happens to be in your head.

Q: What would cyclists do about X?
A: We already have to deal with X.
Q: What if Y happened as well?
A: We'd have to deal with Y too.
Q: I don't believe any of you. You didn't answer the question and then you lied as well. I'm not surprised. *Flounce*

Jawgap

Vet Thrower wrote: »

It was a hypothetical question. Motorists have had to adapt to sharing the roads with large numbers of people on slower, less predictable modes of transport.

I was wondering how cyclists would feel about an analogous situation, but nobody was willing to answer honestly. It wasn't really much of a surprise.

Really?

.....you'll find the majority [of cyclists] don't mind given it adds a nice vibe to the experience of being out in the open air, enjoying the weather.

I'd suggest that the incidence of 'cycle rage' are much less frequent than driver rage - implying that cyclists are better at sharing than some other road users.

paddyland

The general consensus, which I would agree with, would seem to be that cycle lanes are useless, for all manner of reasons, generally either bad design, ill maintenance, or frequent incursion of pedestrians and other traffic.

What would the panel's opinion be, then, to get rid of cycle lanes altogether?

Danjamin1

paddyland wrote: »

The general consensus, which I would agree with, would seem to be that cycle lanes are useless, for all manner of reasons, generally either bad design, ill maintenance, or frequent incursion of pedestrians and other traffic.

What would the panel's opinion be, then, to get rid of cycle lanes altogether?

Either that or make them fit for purpose IMO. though I feel the call to get rid of them altogether would be stronger.

No Pants

paddyland wrote: »

What would the panel's opinion be, then, to get rid of cycle lanes altogether?

That would be my choice, but not everyone agrees. Some people, not just on this forum, think that completely segregated lanes are needed, like you see in the Netherlands. It's hard to disagree with their success.

cython

Vet Thrower wrote: »

It was a hypothetical question. Motorists have had to adapt to sharing the roads with large numbers of people on slower, less predictable modes of transport.

I'm calling bullsh*t on this right here. Those modes of transport have been around longer and were prevalent before the advent of motorised transport, so they have always been present, rather than any adaptation being required on the part of motorists. The only potential adaptation would be in response to the removal of the obligation to use mandatory cycle lanes, but that was an unrealistic law given the standards of the infrastructure.

Vet Thrower wrote: »

I was wondering how cyclists would feel about an analogous situation, but nobody was willing to answer honestly. It wasn't really much of a surprise.

As stated, several people have in fact already answered you. And here's my answer: I do share the roads "with large numbers of people on in slower, less predictable modes of transport" - they're called cars! My commute is from Dublin 15 into Dublin 2, and almost without fail I can get through Castleknock village quicker in the morning than a car going the same way. Similarly I have travelled the length of the quays in a similar time to a taxi (and certainly faster than the average car at the time!). Now this is not because of cars being stuck behind me, as you might like to believe, but rather when they get past me, they are held up by queues of traffic, and I can filter ahead of them again before stopping at lights.

I have both a car and a bike, but there are some journeys I will not make in the former as the latter is immensely quicker.

Pinch Flat

cython wrote: »

My commute is from Dublin 15 into Dublin 2, and almost without fail I can get through Castleknock village quicker in the morning than a car going the same way. Similarly I have travelled the length of the quays in a similar time to a taxi (and certainly faster than the average car at the time!). Now this is not because of cars being stuck behind me, as you might like to believe, but rather when they get past me, they are held up by queues of traffic, and I can filter ahead of them again before stopping at lights.

I have both a car and a bike, but there are some journeys I will not make in the former as the latter is immensely quicker.

Same here - travel 18km Castleknock (well, Carpenterstown) to City West - neighbour beside me drives to Rathcoole and passes City West on the way. I frequently meet him at Grangecastle.

Jawgap

paddyland wrote: »

The general consensus, which I would agree with, would seem to be that cycle lanes are useless, for all manner of reasons, generally either bad design, ill maintenance, or frequent incursion of pedestrians and other traffic.

What would the panel's opinion be, then, to get rid of cycle lanes altogether?

Not all of them - there are some excellent examples. The Departments of Environment and Transport and the Local Authorities (and the RSA, to a degree) need to get their collective heads out of their arses and stop perpetuating the fiction that a bit of ol' paint and coloured sand can be used to make a cycle lane.

I'd prefer if we had a few hundred kilometers of well thought out and constructed lanes than several thousand kilometers of garbage.

The other thing we need badly is proper enforcement. It's nearly a year since we were told fixed penalty notices were coming in to deal with dick-head cyclists and they still haven't been introduced.

The Guards also need to take cyclist safety much more seriously beyond giving out lights and flappy crappy hi-viz vests. They could start with enforcing the safe passing provision in the Road Traffic legislation.

Local authority parking enforcement (and the Guards) should also be quicker to deal with parking in cycle lanes - at the moment, at the very most, only three cars per day are clamped for this - I see at least twice that many between the M50 and city centre.

Tenzor07

I don't believe that completely segregated Dutch style cycle lanes are the perfect solution..Painted ones on the road are fine when maintained properly.
What I would like is junctions, crossings and traffic lights designed with bicycles in mind. And to allow red lights at certain traffic light crossings to be considered a Yield signal.

Enforcement of:
Close passing: 1.5m distance from Car <--> Bicycle.
Parking in cycle-lanes.
Throwing objects from moving cars onto cyclists.
Threatening or intimidation of a cyclist by use of a motor vehicle.

CramCycle

My commute by bike takes me between 20 and 30 minutes, traffic dependent. Driving at the same time takes me 35 to 50 minutes. This has more to do with RLJing and rule breaking though. Mainly by other cars, particularly in Donnybrook where cars insist on sitting on the Yellow box at the DB garage or running red lights at this junction and at the canal, or my favourite, getting sky news updates on their phone so they miss the light sequence, again. If cars did not do this, my commute by car would be approximately 30 minutes and my cycle would be 15 minutes. I used to be polite and give a little "Green light" shout but by the time they realise what is happening they have missed it anyway, then the people stuck behind get pee'd off at every conceived delay eg a cyclist stopping them getting to the back of the traffic jam ahead rather than the simple point that because a small number of Irish road users either do not pay attention or just don't care, they have an extra 15 minutes in traffic every morning.

These people are a minority but they inconvenience the majority, much the same way d*cks on bikes are a minority but they annoy the majority.

CramCycle

Jawgap wrote: »

The other thing we need badly is proper enforcement. It's nearly a year since we were told fixed penalty notices were coming in to deal with dick-head cyclists and they still haven't been introduced.

The sooner the better, this and VPRN cameras at every problematic set of lights. Not the random one Garda checkpoint, that we normally get advanced warning about.

Jawgap

......and while I'm at it - I'd like the Guards to develop a facility to allow cyclists and other road users to submit helmetcam and dashcam footage, similar to what's offered by the Met in London.

Macy0161

CramCycle wrote: »

These people are a minority but they inconvenience the majority, much the same way d*cks on bikes are a minority but they annoy the majority.

The people who block yellow boxes wreck my head, in car or on bike. The rules are clear on yellow boxes - don't enter unless you can exit (unless turning right etc). They don't have an exemption for you to pile out of side roads, blocking all lanes, and anything that's able to filter.

We badly need Red Light cameras too. With all the focus on cyclists, motorised vehicles get such an easy ride on that front. Invariably, if I go through in the car and think that was a bit of amber gamler move (I'm not claiming to be perfect!), 2, 3 or sometimes 4 or 5 come through behind me on what must have been a clear red.

Enforcement is a problem on our roads, for all road user types, and pretty much every law.

No Pants

Tenzor07 wrote: »

Enforcement of:
Close passing: 1.5m distance from Car <--> Bicycle.
Parking in cycle-lanes.
Throwing objects from moving cars onto cyclists.
Threatening or intimidation of a cyclist by use of a motor vehicle.

I'd add a small amount of resource to investigate bike theft, maybe a stinger bike or two.

Darkglasses

No Pants wrote: »

I'd add a small amount of resource to investigate bike theft, maybe a stinger bike or two.

And let's not forget a conviction :mad:

Tenzor07

Macy0161 wrote: »

We badly need Red Light cameras too. With all the focus on cyclists, motorised vehicles get such an easy ride on that front. Invariably, if I go through in the car and think that was a bit of amber gamler move (I'm not claiming to be perfect!), 2, 3 or sometimes 4 or 5 come through behind me on what must have been a clear red.

Enforcement is a problem on our roads, for all road user types, and pretty much every law.

"Amber Gambling" is so common on the roads it's almost expected! How many times have people brought there cars to a stop at an amber light only to be beeped out of it by the driver behind.. Not to mention the many collisions between LUAS and cars who go through yellow's

No Pants

Darkglasses wrote: »

And let's not forget a conviction :mad:

Ah, you're taking the piss now. One step at a time.

Danjamin1

Tenzor07 wrote: »

"Amber Gambling" is so common on the roads it's almost expected! How many times have people brought there cars to a stop at an amber light only to be beeped out of it by the driver behind.. Not to mention the many collisions between LUAS and cars who go through yellow's

I was beeped this morning for NOT blocking a junction. Some people...

Pinch Flat

Tenzor07 wrote: »

"Amber Gambling" is so common on the roads it's almost expected!

The Amber Gamblers really handy at junctions though. Car speeding up coming the other way means the lights are amber and about to change, so it's going to be your turn to move off.:pac:

In all seriousness though, I see some utter lunacy coming across Ballyowen Lane in Lucan in the mornings - people carriers full of kids, mammy or daddy gunning it from 50 yards back. What can be so urgent to put you kids lives at risk in such a reckless way?

endacl

Oh man, these threads are wearying....

When I drive, I use the road. When I cycle, I use the road too. Why? Because the roads are there for the use of citizens who wish to use them. Not 'citizens in cars'. Just 'citizens'.

Yeah, the odd time you'll have to overtake, and the odd time you'll be delayed for a moment. Do what I do when I'm driving and am slightly delayed by a cyclist. Get over it. If your not prepared to get over it, let me know when you meet me out on the bike. I'll be delighted to not give a toss.

No Pants

Tenzor07 wrote: »

"Amber Gambling" is so common on the roads it's almost expected! How many times have people brought there cars to a stop at an amber light only to be beeped out of it by the driver behind.

Sudden amber lights are when I most often check the brake and ABS systems in the car. I've had a few close calls with people behind as they're starting to speed up when I decide to throw out the anchor. One even swerved onto the other side of the road and then had to reverse back out of the way. His face was comical.

Tenzor07

endacl wrote: »

Yeah, the odd time you'll have to overtake, and the odd time you'll be delayed for a moment. Do what I do when I'm driving and am slightly delayed by a cyclist. Get over it. If your not prepared to get over it, let me know when you meet me out on the bike. I'll be delighted to not give a toss.

Brings to mind the recent story of a guy cycling around Ireland to raise money for his sister who was in hospital due to a severe stroke:

I had just started my daily cycle out of Bandon and was on the Dunmanway road when a lorry started to overtake,’ he recalled. But, he added, the truck was pulling a wide trailer, and it cut in on top of him. ‘I knew I had no choice except go into the ditch. I lost control and down I went with cuts to the leg, wrist and hands, but I got up, pulled the de-railer so that I could get back on the bike, and out of temper cycled to a chemist, got bandages, cleaned the wounds. I rode all the way to Murph’s at MTM Cycles in Clonakilty who sorted out the damage to my bike, while I had a coffee and then I completed my 95k.’ As is so often the case, said Liam, there was no need for the lorry driver to overtake. It was going around a bend governed by a continuous white line, and only had to wait ten seconds to complete the manoeuvre, without putting him in danger.

Liam is angry that the area is being promoted as a cycling haven for tourists, even more so now with the launch of the Wild Atlantic Way driving and cycling route, at a time when motorists are showing scant regard for cyclists. They do not allow for the space required or the vulnerability of riders, he added.

‘I’m now cycling 420m a week, and it’s happening all the time. Forty cars passed me this morning and only two indicated to overtake, which means that anyone travelling behind wouldn’t see me until the last second and have nowhere to go. I was lucky but hundreds are not and someone is going to be killed,’ warned Liam.

Speaking in the aftermath of the Giro d’Italia stages and the upcoming Rás, he said he heard similar stories from members of Bandon Cycling Club, who have been very helpful and accompanied him, of being clipped by passing vehicles whose drivers simply didn’t make allowance for them being on the road.

No Pants

Good point by Liam there. The number of cars I see overtaking a cyclist without the slightest blink of an indicator, even as they cross to the other side of an often-solid white line.

I think I've said it on another thread before, but I do believe that the RSA message on overtaking distance with cyclists is getting through. However, I'm seeing more and more cars overtaking into oncoming traffic, which is just shifting the problem temporarily onto other motorists and will eventually come back to the cyclist if the natural waste product hits the fan.

Pinch Flat

No Pants wrote: »

Good point by Liam there. The number of cars I see overtaking a cyclist without the slightest blink of an indicator, even as they cross to the other side of an often-solid white line.

I think I've said it on another thread before, but I do believe that the RSA message on overtaking distance with cyclists is getting through. However, I'm seeing more and more cars overtaking into oncoming traffic, which is just shifting the problem temporarily onto other motorists and will eventually come back to the cyclist if the natural waste product hits the fan.

Happens to me every morning on the Strawberry Beds. Taking up a defensive position is the only way I can avoid being milled out of it. Have tried all other options - staying left, waving on cars - these just end up with me being squeezed as they try to get by.

The worst incident was last Wednesday morning, around 8.30am (Broad day light) - I came across a slower cyclist ahead of me just about here, almost exactly where the silver car on the left is.

https://www.google.com/maps/@53.363893,-6.440116,3a,75y,198.37h,77.6t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sbLyDFmF6IU0kDXduJ-_osg!2e0?hl=en

Looked over my shoulder, there's a van approaching about 50 metres behind. I indicated (i.e. right arm out) to over take the slower cyclist.

What happens next is so quick and it's a miracle that either me or the other cyclist was not injured or worse. The idiot in the van continues to overtake me, but at this stage I'm half way through my move - the cyclist I'm overtaking is now on my inside. An oncoming car does nothing to the tool in the van, he continues to squeeze into the path of the car rounding the corner, who has to brake sharply. He physically barged me out of the way to get back in.

When I took this up with the van driver at the lights (he was about 20 cars back in a jam), I asked him if he was stupid or blind. He claimed he didn't see me - I'm 6'2", high vis bag cover, 150 lumen rear flashing light, indicating right - and he claims he didn't see me? At this stage, if I was an SC in a courtroom cross examining, the standard retort would be "no further questions, your Honour". Obviously stupid.

That was a real wake up call for me - the amount of complete idiots who will barge by to do what? Save a few seconds getting to a traffic jam? Sorry, but it's middle of the lane for me from now on. If it means me being killed / injured or someone being delayed a few seconds to the next traffic jam, I know which one I'll be taking.

07Lapierre

Last night on Channel 4 there was a programme called "Complainers"..it features a cyclist called "Traffic Droid"....While I don't agree with his actions or methods, i did like the idea of issuing a Red Card.

Maybe all road users should carry red cards and simply display them to other road users who do something silly?

Tenzor07

07Lapierre wrote: »

Last night on Channel 4 there was a programme called "Complainers"..it features a cyclist called "Traffic Droid"....While I don't agree with his actions or methods, i did like the idea of issuing a Red Card.
Maybe all road users should carry red cards and simply display them to other road users who do something silly?

He's an extreme example of a road user and not entirely sane either!
I would say though that cycling and driving in a huge City like London would be quite extreme also...I wouldn't like to have to cycle there each day...

Thankfully we don't have any Nutcases like Traffic Droid going around Dublin's streets!

I would leave the handing out of "Red cards" to the Gards though..

07Lapierre

Tenzor07 wrote: »

He's an extreme example of a road user and not entirely sane either!
I would say though that cycling and driving in a huge City like London would be quite extreme also...I wouldn't like to have to cycle there each day...

I would leave the handing out of "Red cards" to the Guards though..

Gardai don't issue red cards..referees display red cards. I think it would be a good "non-confrontational" way of expressing your frustration at another road users actions. Totally agree though...the guys a nutter and does nothing but make cyclist/driver relations worse.

Tenzor07

07Lapierre wrote: »

Gardai don't issue red cards..referees display red cards. I think it would be a good "non-confrontational" way of expressing your frustration at another road users actions.

Yea I know, would rather see more Gardai on bicycles handing out penalty points though...