Cyclists mega-thread (WARNING: Before posting you must read post #1)

madra dubh

Moderator warning and notes:

Reminder to all: The Commuting and Transport charter applies -- it is stricter than many forums. You must read it before posting on this or other threads.

And remember, this is a thread on the Commuting and Transport board, so talk about how transport modes compare is relevant and attempts to state otherwise and/or tell people what they can't or can talk about will be viewed as back seat modding.

There's been a few of these threads recently, so this is likely going to become the official give out about cyclists megathread (I'll come up with a better title before renaming the thread).

These will be to contain such discussion away from other threads and bring them off topic and to stop new threads of the same vain from always happening.

This thread will be different than normal thread and arguments should not be repeated unless you have something new to add -- at some point soon in the future a FAQ type first post will deal the repeated arguments and outline both sides of arguments like "road tax" etc.

Normal rules in the charter apply, including not replying to this mod warning.

- moderator


Original opening post follows:

Why do we tolerate them on our roads. I have been a cyclist, motorcyclist, car driver, van driver & minibus driver and by far the worst are cyclists. Colour blind (don't recognise traffic lights). They moan continually about other road users not being considerate yet a large amount make no effort to keep themselves seen and safe. Pay no road tax yet are allocated cycle lanes. Need no insurance yet can cause damage (ever tried to claim off one that is at fault). Motorcyclists tend to get a bad rap mainly due to speed but I have found them to be the best on the road for consideration and road awareness.
There can of worms opened.

Tar.Aldarion

They don't even pay road tax Joe...

Mycroft H

madra dubh wrote: »

Why do we tolerate them on our roads. I have been a cyclist, motorcyclist, car driver, van driver & minibus driver and by far the worst are cyclists. Colour blind (don't recognise traffic lights). They moan continually about other road users not being considerate yet a large amount make no effort to keep themselves seen and safe. Pay no road tax yet are allocated cycle lanes. Need no insurance yet can cause damage (ever tried to claim off one that is at fault). Motorcyclists tend to get a bad rap mainly due to speed but I have found them to be the best on the road for consideration and road awareness.
There can of worms opened.

Anything new in that argument there? It's also motor tax not road tax; a tax for having a polluting internal combustion engine in your car.

yop

madra dubh wrote: »

Why do we tolerate them on our roads. I have been a cyclist, motorcyclist, car driver, van driver & minibus driver and by far the worst are cyclists. Colour blind (don't recognise traffic lights). They moan continually about other road users not being considerate yet a large amount make no effort to keep themselves seen and safe. Pay no road tax yet are allocated cycle lanes. Need no insurance yet can cause damage (ever tried to claim off one that is at fault). Motorcyclists tend to get a bad rap mainly due to speed but I have found them to be the best on the road for consideration and road awareness.
There can of worms opened.

Irony.....

Pay no road tax

No one does.

allocated cycle lanes.

Walkers allocated footpaths. Need to tax walkers.

Is that you George Hook

CptMackey

madra dubh wrote: »

Why do we tolerate them on our roads. I have been a cyclist, motorcyclist, car driver, van driver & minibus driver and by far the worst are cyclists. Colour blind (don't recognise traffic lights). They moan continually about other road users not being considerate yet a large amount make no effort to keep themselves seen and safe. Pay no road tax yet are allocated cycle lanes. Need no insurance yet can cause damage (ever tried to claim off one that is at fault). Motorcyclists tend to get a bad rap mainly due to speed but I have found them to be the best on the road for consideration and road awareness.
There can of worms opened.

Eh it's motor tax. Based on the engine. Nothing to do with roads.

loyatemu

madra dubh wrote: »

I have been a cyclist, motorcyclist, car driver, van driver & minibus driver and by far the worst are cyclists.

Really? REALLY?!

yop

loyatemu wrote: »

Really? REALLY?!

It was a blue van so its sound, if it was a white van driver, now that would up a large tin of worms.

corktina

I don't know why people get so het up about cyclists jumping the lights....jealousy maybe?

It makes no difference to me if they jump the lights, they seldom get in my way and maybe will be gone altogether by the time I cross the lights

monument

There's been a few of these threads recently, so this is likely going to become the official give out about cyclists megathread (I'll come up with a better title before renaming the thread).

These will be to contain such discussion away from other threads and bring them off topic and to stop new threads of the same vain from always happening.

I might even add in a FAQ before the first post (ie there's no such thing as road tax, no cyclists are not the only ones not to pay a fictional tax etc).

Normal rules in the charter apply, including not replying to this post

- moderator

ItsLikeThis

madra dubh wrote: »

Why do we tolerate them on our roads. I have been a cyclist, motorcyclist, car driver, van driver & minibus driver and by far the worst are cyclists. Colour blind (don't recognise traffic lights). They moan continually about other road users not being considerate yet a large amount make no effort to keep themselves seen and safe. Pay no road tax yet are allocated cycle lanes. Need no insurance yet can cause damage (ever tried to claim off one that is at fault). Motorcyclists tend to get a bad rap mainly due to speed but I have found them to be the best on the road for consideration and road awareness.
There can of worms opened.

Cyclists were there first...

Zebra3

madra dubh wrote: »

Cyclists Why

Just some reasons off the top of my head:

1) They tend not to kill people;

2) Cause no air pollution;

3) Cause no noise pollution;

4) Use no oil, helping keep money in our economy and not bankrolling some very dodgy regimes;

5) They also annoy a lot of idiots. :cool:

hoodwinked

ItsLikeThis wrote: »

Cyclists were there first...

actually i think horses were! maybe we should fill in the cycle lanes with hay and troughs!

Strumms

corktina wrote: »

I don't know why people get so het up about cyclists jumping the lights....jealousy maybe?

It makes no difference to me if they jump the lights, they seldom get in my way and maybe will be gone altogether by the time I cross the lights

I don't want to generalise as there all all sorts of idiots doing all sorts of stupid thing in cars, bikes, vans, buses (a DB driver talking on a mobile almost put me into oncoming traffic 2 weeks ago). Cyclists who don't respect red lights is a peeve as a few times as a pedestrian I've almost been mown down by them in Dublin city, if you say anything you just get a look as if you were at fault... Clowns.

No Pants

madra dubh wrote: »

ever tried to claim off one that is at fault

No, have you? Please give details.

desertcircus

madra dubh wrote: »

Why do we tolerate them on our roads. I have been a cyclist, motorcyclist, car driver, van driver & minibus driver and by far the worst are cyclists. Colour blind (don't recognise traffic lights). They moan continually about other road users not being considerate yet a large amount make no effort to keep themselves seen and safe. Pay no road tax yet are allocated cycle lanes. Need no insurance yet can cause damage (ever tried to claim off one that is at fault). Motorcyclists tend to get a bad rap mainly due to speed but I have found them to be the best on the road for consideration and road awareness.
There can of worms opened.

I can't even bring myself to be angry about this kind of nonsense anymore; it's just crushingly boring to see yet another person make the same mistakes (not all cyclists jump reds, plenty of drivers jump reds, there's no such thing as road tax...) all while convinced that their cookie-cutter blast of ignorance is something brave and controversial, rather than being the latest in a long line of mindless ignorance. Can we not get something new? Maybe a complaint that we don't properly appreciate David Bowie's late-seventies work, or a demand that we set out our position on the likely near-future trajectory of the Cambodian rial before being allowed to cycle on the roads?

No Pants

hoodwinked wrote: »

actually i think horses were! maybe we should fill in the cycle lanes with hay and troughs!

I remember reading somewhere that the first big push for proper, smooth surfaced roads was made by cyclists. So when motorists refer to "our roads", perhaps they have it backwards.

yop

Since the OP hasn't responded its obviously only a crank thread.

BandyMandy

Tar.Aldarion wrote: »

They don't even pay road tax Joe...

LOL ^ That is what I was thinking before I read your reply.

Greenmachine

Lots of commercials asking to look out for cyclist, but nothing by the way of education for cyclist. UK safety commercials target both drivers and cyclists.

Greenmachine

Saw right this second on utv.

endacl

Blah blah blah, rantity rant rant.

Did I miss anything?

jjpep

madra dubh wrote: »

Why do we tolerate them on our roads. I have been a cyclist, motorcyclist, car driver, van driver & minibus driver and by far the worst are cyclists. Colour blind (don't recognise traffic lights). They moan continually about other road users not being considerate yet a large amount make no effort to keep themselves seen and safe. Pay no road tax yet are allocated cycle lanes. Need no insurance yet can cause damage (ever tried to claim off one that is at fault). Motorcyclists tend to get a bad rap mainly due to speed but I have found them to be the best on the road for consideration and road awareness.
There can of worms opened.

Have been. As in past tense? Did you lose your license or something?

Pat Custard

I was driving home earlier today and was stuck behind two cyclists cycling two abreast.

It was only my girlfriend and I in the one car stuck behind them.

Why wouldn't they cycle one abreast?

And there was a perfectly adequate cycle lane. If one is available and in good condition, why don't they use it? I understand some are in bad condition, but why cycle on the road and hold up others.

Just because you are not obliged to use it, doesn't mean you have to exercise that right. A bit of consideration, please.

the_syco

Zebra3 wrote: »

4) Use no oil, helping keep money in our economy and not bankrolling some very dodgy regimes;

How do they lubricate their chains these days? Have always used oil myself...

dearg lady

Strumms wrote: »

I don't want to generalise as there all all sorts of idiots doing all sorts of stupid thing in cars, bikes, vans, buses (a DB driver talking on a mobile almost put me into oncoming traffic 2 weeks ago). Cyclists who don't respect red lights is a peeve as a few times as a pedestrian I've almost been mown down by them in Dublin city, if you say anything you just get a look as if you were at fault... Clowns.

I actually think cyclists should be allowed go through red lights, but ONLY if the way is clear,I read a good article about it recently, the idea being cyclists treat red lights as a yield sign. I get seriously annoyed though, at the cyclists who fly through red lights with no regard for anyone.I can see someone getting badly injured at the georges st/dame st junction

con___manx1

I am a driver and a cyclist. i have had so many near misses with idiotic drivers its ridiculous. i was cycling last week going down hill maybe 50k. some absolute plonker pulled out of a housing estate right in front of me.i missed him by inches. i shouted after him and gave him the finger. when im driving im always checking my mirrors for cyclists. not like a lot of dumb motorists. 4 cyclists killed on the roads already this year.

No Pants

Pat Custard wrote: »

And there was a perfectly adequate cycle lane. If one is available and in good condition, why don't they use it?

Where was this?

endacl

dearg lady wrote: »

I actually think cyclists should be allowed go through red lights, but ONLY if the way is clear,I read a good article about it recently, the idea being cyclists treat red lights as a yield sign. I get seriously annoyed though, at the cyclists who fly through red lights with no regard for anyone.I can see someone getting badly injured at the georges st/dame st junction

Especially late at night, where there isn't enough metal mass in a bike to trigger the road sensor and let the lights know there's somebody waiting.

Declaration of interest: I'm a cyclist. I don't break red lights. I often wait ages at night for lights to switch through their automatic sequence.

For 'some' motorists who only scan cyclist's posts looking for buzz words: I don't break red lights.

Extra relevant info: I'm also a motorist.

bigar

Pat Custard wrote: »

I was driving home earlier today and was stuck behind two cyclists cycling two abreast.

It was only my girlfriend and I in the one car stuck behind them.

Why wouldn't they cycle one abreast?

So you and your girlfriend had more right to use the road? Cycling two abreast means you can talk to your friend just as you would be doing with your girlfriend. Your car was also undoubtedly taking more space than the 2 cyclists so next time maybe walk or cycle as well.

I wonder if you would be commenting if you were stuck behind another car going very slow in front of you.

bigar

corktina wrote: »

I don't know why people get so het up about cyclists jumping the lights....jealousy maybe?

I also think it is mostly jealousy. Cyclist can also squeeze through smaller spaces and keep on going where cars are standing still for ages.

Pat Custard

bigar wrote: »

So you and your girlfriend had more right to use the road? Cycling two abreast means you can talk to your friend just as you would be doing with your girlfriend. Your car was also undoubtedly taking more space than the 2 cyclists so next time maybe walk or cycle as well.

I wonder if you would be commenting if you were stuck behind another car going very slow in front of you.

Why wouldn't they use the cycle lanes provided??

Just because they have to right to hold up others doesn't mean they should.

Bit of courtesy.

http://goo.gl/4pjYmE

Pat Custard

bigar wrote: »

So you and your girlfriend had more right to use the road? Cycling two abreast means you can talk to your friend just as you would be doing with your girlfriend. Your car was also undoubtedly taking more space than the 2 cyclists so next time maybe walk or cycle as well.

I wonder if you would be commenting if you were stuck behind another car going very slow in front of you.

also a slow-moving car would be driving a lot faster still than a cyclist

John_C

Here's your problem; the cycle lane ends on a footpath up ahead, leaving cyclists to jump down before crossing a left filter lane:
https://www.google.ie/maps/@53.452962,-6.199175,3a,75y,270h,90t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sHXNaVMY4fX1xwXGxklfqqQ!2e0

Cookie_Monster

Pat Custard wrote: »

I was driving home earlier today and was stuck behind two cyclists cycling two abreast.

This is safer than single file as cars are less likely to just pass by unthinkingly. You need to leave at least 1.5m when overtaking so should pretty much be giving a single cyclist the same space as two wide.

It was only my girlfriend and I in the one car stuck behind them.

You weren't stuck behind them, you were in traffic

Why wouldn't they cycle one abreast?

Because it's not as safe

And there was a perfectly adequate cycle lane. If one is available and in good condition, why don't they use it? I understand some are in bad condition, but why cycle on the road and hold up others.

how do you decide its perfectly adequate? For a start it's not even on road which means lack of priority at junctions, it may not even follow the road after a point and just meters up the road from your link there is a bus stop right in the middle of it.

Just because you are not obliged to use it, doesn't mean you have to exercise that right. A bit of consideration, please.

Or you could should those cyclists a bit of consideration. they are just another road user after all.

After I started in a new job which required a commute I decided to give cycling a go. I made sure to obey lights and junctions. But I only lasted three months because I found it way too dangerous. I genuinely felt like I could have been seriously injured and felt more comfortable cycling on rural roads in Kerry than I did in Dublin city, and I have done both. Car driver behaviour certainly didn't help me either. I'm quite an anxious person anyway, so make of that what you will.

One thing which I will say is this, though. I do agree that some cyclist behaviour is terrible too. A few weeks ago I was crossing O'Connell Street at the old Carlton cinema. I had a green light and walked out, next thing I heard a cyclist ring their bell at me and tell me to get out of the way. I had the green, he didn't! :mad:

Mrs OBumble

We let them be on the road's 'cos it's safer having them there than on the footpath! And they'll come off worse hitting a car than hitting a pedestrian.

Living in a one-way street, my pet hate is the way they don't see to understand the words "One way" and "No Entry". These days I always look both ways before stepping out, just in case.

endacl

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

These days I always look both ways before stepping out, just in case.

Surely that's just common sense, no matter what sort of road you live on...?

paddyland

The Giro d'Italia comes to Ireland. The barriers are laid out, the Gardai close off the roads, the crowds come, and the race is held. Everyone has a great time. It is all properly organised and marshalled, and safety is paramount.

Why then, do these cycling maniacs think that it is perfectly acceptable to go out on Saturdays and Sundays, and take over entire public roads, and recreate the Giro d'Italia with no barriers, no Gardai, no control, and no safety?

I had a three hundred mile drive last Saturday. A large part of that was spent trying to avoid packs of these moronic cyclists going far too fast through built up areas, and not fast enough on busy country roads. They cycled in packs four and five wide, or strung out in long unovertakeable lines maybe a hundred metres long. They flung themselves into blind bends, and created enormous hazards for every other road user. Many of them were just pleasure cyclists, out for the day, with no idea of the hassle they were creating for everyone else. But I am quite sure a small but significant number knew well the danger they were causing, and were quite happily and deliberately doing so.

The public road is no place for racing, whether it be cars or bicycles, unless it is a properly organised and policed affair. The public road cannot cope with those volume of cyclists. Other people are trying to get on with a day's work. These cycling ringleaders who take over public roads to run enormous cycling events without prior arrangement need to be rounded up and arrested.

Go find an official track somewhere to have your fun, and leave the public road to people trying to get on with a day's work. You do realise you are screwing it up for the ordinary cyclist who just wants to use the road for the purpose it was designed for?

endacl

paddyland wrote: »

The Giro d'Italia comes to Ireland. The barriers are laid out, the Gardai close off the roads, the crowds come, and the race is held. Everyone has a great time. It is all properly organised and marshalled, and safety is paramount.

Why then, do these cycling maniacs think that it is perfectly acceptable to go out on Saturdays and Sundays, and take over entire public roads, and recreate the Giro d'Italia with no barriers, no Gardai, no control, and no safety?

I had a three hundred mile drive last Saturday. A large part of that was spent trying to avoid packs of these moronic cyclists going far too fast through built up areas, and not fast enough on busy country roads. They cycled in packs four and five wide, or strung out in long unovertakeable lines maybe a hundred metres long. They flung themselves into blind bends, and created enormous hazards for every other road user. Many of them were just pleasure cyclists, out for the day, with no idea of the hassle they were creating for everyone else. But I am quite sure a small but significant number knew well the danger they were causing, and were quite happily and deliberately doing so.

The public road is no place for racing, whether it be cars or bicycles, unless it is a properly organised and policed affair. The public road cannot cope with those volume of cyclists. Other people are trying to get on with a day's work. These cycling ringleaders who take over public roads to run enormous cycling events without prior arrangement need to be rounded up and arrested.

Go find an official track somewhere to have your fun, and leave the public road to people trying to get on with a day's work. You do realise you are screwing it up for the ordinary cyclist who just wants to use the road for the purpose it was designed for?

Bummer.

desertcircus

paddyland wrote: »

The Giro d'Italia comes to Ireland. The barriers are laid out, the Gardai close off the roads, the crowds come, and the race is held. Everyone has a great time. It is all properly organised and marshalled, and safety is paramount.

Why then, do these cycling maniacs think that it is perfectly acceptable to go out on Saturdays and Sundays, and take over entire public roads, and recreate the Giro d'Italia with no barriers, no Gardai, no control, and no safety?

I had a three hundred mile drive last Saturday. A large part of that was spent trying to avoid packs of these moronic cyclists going far too fast through built up areas, and not fast enough on busy country roads. They cycled in packs four and five wide, or strung out in long unovertakeable lines maybe a hundred metres long. They flung themselves into blind bends, and created enormous hazards for every other road user. Many of them were just pleasure cyclists, out for the day, with no idea of the hassle they were creating for everyone else. But I am quite sure a small but significant number knew well the danger they were causing, and were quite happily and deliberately doing so.

The public road is no place for racing, whether it be cars or bicycles, unless it is a properly organised and policed affair. The public road cannot cope with those volume of cyclists. Other people are trying to get on with a day's work. These cycling ringleaders who take over public roads to run enormous cycling events without prior arrangement need to be rounded up and arrested.

Go find an official track somewhere to have your fun, and leave the public road to people trying to get on with a day's work. You do realise you are screwing it up for the ordinary cyclist who just wants to use the road for the purpose it was designed for?

Yawn. Still very predictable and unimaginative. Can you not at least make your ill-informed, point-missing rant original?

desertcircus

Also: there are no races on Irish roads without prior arrangement. I'm not even sure there are cycling events on Irish roads without prior arrangement - maybe Critical Mass, but then the whole point of that is that there are no organisers.

smalltalk

paddyland wrote: »

The Giro d'Italia comes to Ireland. The barriers are laid out, the Gardai close off the roads, the crowds come, and the race is held. Everyone has a great time. It is all properly organised and marshalled, and safety is paramount.

Why then, do these cycling maniacs think that it is perfectly acceptable to go out on Saturdays and Sundays, and take over entire public roads, and recreate the Giro d'Italia with no barriers, no Gardai, no control, and no safety?

I had a three hundred mile drive last Saturday. A large part of that was spent trying to avoid packs of these moronic cyclists going far too fast through built up areas, and not fast enough on busy country roads. They cycled in packs four and five wide, or strung out in long unovertakeable lines maybe a hundred metres long. They flung themselves into blind bends, and created enormous hazards for every other road user. Many of them were just pleasure cyclists, out for the day, with no idea of the hassle they were creating for everyone else. But I am quite sure a small but significant number knew well the danger they were causing, and were quite happily and deliberately doing so.

The public road is no place for racing, whether it be cars or bicycles, unless it is a properly organised and policed affair. The public road cannot cope with those volume of cyclists. Other people are trying to get on with a day's work. These cycling ringleaders who take over public roads to run enormous cycling events without prior arrangement need to be rounded up and arrested.

Go find an official track somewhere to have your fun, and leave the public road to people trying to get on with a day's work. You do realise you are screwing it up for the ordinary cyclist who just wants to use the road for the purpose it was designed for?

Ah you got caught behind the 300 mile moronic 3 or 4 abreast hazardous unavoidable cyclist spin ,bad luck and you on your way to the G8 summit;)

corktina

desertcircus wrote: »

Also: there are no races on Irish roads without prior arrangement. I'm not even sure there are cycling events on Irish roads without prior arrangement - maybe Critical Mass, but then the whole point of that is that there are no organisers.

That's not so. A Club local to me has events now and again on a flat section of the N72,,there is no advance warning, no marshalls and people wandering all over a main road ,children included. They are their own worst enemies. They could at least police their own events, show a bit of responsibility (and don't get me started on road-bowling...) If I started a Car Race on the public road, I'd soon get shut down if it wasn't done properly

No Pants

Pat Custard wrote: »

http://goo.gl/4pjYmE

I suppose that while you were performing your critical evaluation of the cycle path you missed (a) the bus stop in the middle of it and (b) the fact that it comes to an abrupt end just before a junction, leaving the cyclist on a footpath.

No Pants

paddyland wrote: »

Why then, do these cycling maniacs think that it is perfectly acceptable to go out on Saturdays and Sundays, and take over entire public roads, and recreate the Giro d'Italia with no barriers, no Gardai, no control, and no safety?

Where was this and can anyone go?

furiousox

paddyland wrote: »

The Giro d'Italia comes to Ireland. The barriers are laid out, the Gardai close off the roads, the crowds come, and the race is held. Everyone has a great time. It is all properly organised and marshalled, and safety is paramount.

Why then, do these motoring maniacs think that it is perfectly acceptable to go out on Saturdays and Sundays, and take over entire public roads?

I had a three hundred km cycle last Saturday. A large part of that was spent trying to avoid packs of these moronic motorists going far too fast through built up areas, and not fast enough on busy country roads. They drove in packs. They flung themselves into blind bends, and created enormous hazards for every other road user. Many of them were just pleasure motorists, out for the day, with no idea of the hassle they were creating for everyone else. But I am quite sure a small but significant number knew well the danger they were causing, and were quite happily and deliberately doing so.

The public road cannot cope with those volume of motorists. Other people are trying to get on with a day's cycling. These motoring ringleaders who take over public roads need to be rounded up and arrested.

Go find somewhere else to have your fun, and leave the public road to people trying to get on with a day's cycling. You do realise you are screwing it up for the ordinary cyclist who just wants to use the road?

FYP

desertcircus

corktina wrote: »

That's not so. A Club local to me has events now and again on a flat section of the N72,,there is no advance warning, no marshalls and people wandering all over a main road ,children included. They are their own worst enemies. They could at least police their own events, show a bit of responsibility (and don't get me started on road-bowling...) If I started a Car Race on the public road, I'd soon get shut down if it wasn't done properly

Are they racing in a pack?

DHFrame

Mycroft H wrote: »

Anything new in that argument there? It's also motor tax not road tax; a tax for having a polluting internal combustion engine in your car.

So why we are charged for EV's in this country is beyond me.

No Pants

DHFrame wrote: »

So why we are charged for EV's in this country is beyond me.

No idea, but it's the lowest rate and there's no VRT, so you should still be ahead of the game.

Maximus Alexander

DHFrame wrote: »

So why we are charged for EV's in this country is beyond me.

It's motor tax. EVs have motors.

corktina

desertcircus wrote: »

Are they racing in a pack?

What difference does that make? It's the support crews and onlookers causing problems (No is the answer)