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Ukraine: As it happens.

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Comments

  • #6452
    FamousSeamus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 126 ✭✭FamousSeamus


    Apparently the Tartars (ethnic group from Crimea) are getting very badly treated at the moment!! Although they knew this would happen as they were treated just as bad when Russia (to be precise, the USSR) last ruled the area.

    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-27438422


  • #6453
    pablomakaveli
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,752 ✭✭✭pablomakaveli


    FamousSeamus wrote: »
    Apparently the Tartars (ethnic group from Crimea) are getting very badly treated at the moment!! Although they knew this would happen as they were treated just as bad when Russia (to be precise, the USSR) last ruled the area.

    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-27438422

    A big chunk of the local opposition to the annexation of Crimea was from the Tartars who themselves had begun returning after being moved from there during the days of the Soviet Union. I reckon they're been made to pay for that opposition now.

    They're some of the biggest victims in the Crimea dispute but have largely been forgotten about.


  • #6454
    KyussBishop
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,797 ✭✭✭KyussBishop


    Incredibly good analysis, of why Russia is doing this, and their internal political background behind it - amazingly good:
    http://pando.com/2014/05/14/sorry-america-the-ukraine-isnt-all-about-you/


  • #6455
    Piliger
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,741 ✭✭✭Piliger


    KyussBishop wrote: »
    Incredibly good analysis, of why Russia is doing this, and their internal political background behind it - amazingly good:
    http://pando.com/2014/05/14/sorry-america-the-ukraine-isnt-all-about-you/

    An 'interesting' commentary but flawed in it's own inevitable way by the bias of the writer.

    Ames has a long and dodgy history, and the headline itself "Sorry America, Ukraine isn’t all about you" reflects his obsession with nasty-America conspiracy theories, and the article itself, though filled with threads of truth. is a caricatured knockabout characterisation of the Russian people and Putin's progress imho.

    At the heart of it though is the correct analysis that Putin is deriving his increasing dominant power and control by appealing to the equivalent redneck right wing style bigots that are numerous, loud and aggressive across Russia.
    Ames' claims about Putin's popularity are also questionable considering how difficult it is to find reliable data from Russia, whether claimed to be derived by western polling companies or not.

    His closing warning on Putin is a sobering and justifiable conclusion. But his conclusion about Ukraine is pure adulterated speculation.


  • #6456
    KyussBishop
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,797 ✭✭✭KyussBishop


    Piliger wrote: »
    An 'interesting' commentary but flawed in it's own inevitable way by the bias of the writer.

    Ames has a long and dodgy history, and the headline itself "Sorry America, Ukraine isn’t all about you" reflects his obsession with nasty-America conspiracy theories, and the article itself, though filled with threads of truth. is a caricatured knockabout characterisation of the Russian people and Putin's progress imho.

    At the heart of it though is the correct analysis that Putin is deriving his increasing dominant power and control by appealing to the equivalent redneck right wing style bigots that are numerous, loud and aggressive across Russia.
    Ames' claims about Putin's popularity are also questionable considering how difficult it is to find reliable data from Russia, whether claimed to be derived by western polling companies or not.

    His closing warning on Putin is a sobering and justifiable conclusion. But his conclusion about Ukraine is pure adulterated speculation.
    He knows power in Russia better than most western writers, having lived there for a very long time, and having to leave eventually over his controversial writing challenging powerful figures/authorities in Russia - he's one of the best muckraking journalists around.

    You haven't really said anything to substantiate your claims against the author, just asserted random stuff - proof?


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  • #6457
    Piliger
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,741 ✭✭✭Piliger


    KyussBishop wrote: »

    You haven't really said anything to substantiate your claims against the author, just asserted random stuff - proof?

    He is well known and has a very chequered history that is easily googled.


  • #6458
    KyussBishop
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,797 ✭✭✭KyussBishop


    Piliger wrote: »
    He is well known and has a very chequered history that is easily googled.
    In other words, you dislike him but can't pin a single bad thing on him - okey.


  • #6459
    obplayer
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,190 ✭✭✭obplayer


    Piliger wrote: »
    He is well known and has a very chequered history that is easily googled.

    I could well be wrong about this but I thought the idea was to give, at the very least, some pointers to information which would substantiate your claims.


  • #6460
    jdod23
    Closed Accounts Posts: 81 ✭✭jdod23


    650 killed in eastern Ukraine between May 2 - May 12 (this is according to "People's mayor" of Slavyansk)
    http://www.kyivpost.com/content/ukraine-abroad/voice-of-russia-slavyansk-peoples-mayor-says-650-ukrainian-soldiers-killed-wounded-in-course-of-special-operation-348244.html

    http://voiceofrussia.com/news/2014_05_17/272479000/

    Ukrainian National Guard radicals shoot dead 10 soldiers who wished to side with federalists
    http://voiceofrussia.com/news/2014_05_18/Ukrainian-National-Guard-radicals-shoot-dead-10-soldiers-who-wished-to-side-with-federalists-6853/

    This info comes from RIA Novosti news TV, let's wait and see if it gets confirmed.


  • #6461
    jimeryan22
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,170 ✭✭✭jimeryan22


    Anyone see this....? It just keeps getting more interesting everyday..

    http://www.kyivpost.com/content/ukraine/interior-ministry-chloroform-discovered-in-odessa-trade-unions-building-348449.html


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  • #6462
    moxin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,203 ✭✭✭moxin


    Tables turning on the separatists? http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-27483719 http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/may/20/ukrainian-oligarch-akhmetov-backs-kiev-workers-strikes


  • #6463
    carpejugulum
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 523 ✭✭✭carpejugulum


    More Russian propaganda exposed:
    http://rt.com/news/158832-un-ukraine-helicopter-scandal/
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7CO3bpqf2o


    http://www.rferl.org/content/ukraine-unspun-odesa-doctor-dentist-false-claim/25372684.html

    http://www.stopfake.org/en/fake-banderovits-attacked-the-veterans-and-burned-the-ribbons-of-saint-george-in-lviv/#more-2747


  • #6464
    Count Dooku
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,419 ✭✭✭Count Dooku


    carpejugulum wrote: »
    More Russian propaganda exposed:
    http://rt.com/news/158832-un-ukraine-helicopter-scandal/
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7CO3bpqf2o

    Why everybody in Congo speak Ukrainian?


  • #6465
    FamousSeamus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 126 ✭✭FamousSeamus


    carpejugulum wrote: »
    More Russian propaganda exposed:
    http://rt.com/news/158832-un-ukraine-helicopter-scandal/
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7CO3bpqf2o


    http://www.rferl.org/content/ukraine-unspun-odesa-doctor-dentist-false-claim/25372684.html

    http://www.stopfake.org/en/fake-banderovits-attacked-the-veterans-and-burned-the-ribbons-of-saint-george-in-lviv/#more-2747

    They fell for their own propaganda? Crazy :D


  • #6466
    moxin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,203 ✭✭✭moxin


    Lovely picture of the pro-Russians smashing ballot boxes. http://www.thejournal.ie/ukraine-presidential-election-1483592-May2014/
    Apparently, democracy is a threat to them.


  • #6467
    Count Dooku
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,419 ✭✭✭Count Dooku


    Luhansk today after air-strike of Ukrainian army






  • #6468
    Count Dooku
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,419 ✭✭✭Count Dooku


    This video may be inappropriate for some users.

    Victims of air-strike of Ukrainian army in Luhansk
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=05m9gLftj5M


  • #6469
    loughside
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 497 ✭✭loughside


    The Kremlin propaganda machine claiming it was cluster bombs!! Are cluster bombs that accurate for such a direct hit?

    Other media and TV claim mishandling of explosives inside the building


  • #6470
    Count Dooku
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,419 ✭✭✭Count Dooku


    loughside wrote: »
    The Kremlin propaganda machine claiming it was cluster bombs!! Are cluster bombs that accurate for such a direct hit?

    Other media and TV claim mishandling of explosives inside the building

    It was birst S-8 unguided missiles launched from Ukrainian Su-25, which can looks on video as cluster bomb.
    Of course, thugs in Kiev government will deny their military crimes despite all evidences


  • #6471
    Khannie
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,485 ✭✭✭✭Khannie


    This is relevant here, because I called it earlier in the thread along with comongethappy. Russians being paid to extol the virtues of Russia online. :/

    http://www.buzzfeed.com/maxseddon/documents-show-how-russias-troll-army-hit-america


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  • #6472
    darkpagandeath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,461 ✭✭✭✭darkpagandeath


    Count Dooku wrote: »
    It was birst S-8 unguided missiles launched from Ukrainian Su-25, which can looks on video as cluster bomb.
    Of course, thugs in Kiev government will deny their military crimes despite all evidences

    When were unguided missiles band ? thought it was just landmines and alike hence cluster bombs that split up and lie dormant. You could argue bullets are unguided should they be band ?


  • #6473
    gandalf
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,458 ✭✭✭✭gandalf


    Count Dooku wrote: »
    It was birst S-8 unguided missiles launched from Ukrainian Su-25, which can looks on video as cluster bomb.
    Of course, thugs in Kiev government will deny their military crimes despite all evidences

    And Russia allows masses of men and weapons pour over their border with another sovereign country go unchecked?

    One would think it is occurring on purpose, like maybe they want to destabilish a neighbouring country.

    Surely the barechested horse rider of peace wouldn't be interested in such underhanded activities ;)


  • #6474
    darkpagandeath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,461 ✭✭✭✭darkpagandeath


    Has any report given information on where the separatist got advanced SAM's and the know how to use them ?


  • #6475
    loughside
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 497 ✭✭loughside


    darkpagandeath wrote: »
    Has any report given information on where the separatist got advanced SAM's and the know how to use them ?

    Belgorod training camp for terrorists, just across the border, ably funded and supplied by Putin

    do they know how to use them?

    the people of Lugansk say `No`


  • #6476
    loughside
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 497 ✭✭loughside


    Khannie wrote: »
    This is relevant here, because I called it earlier in the thread along with comongethappy. Russians being paid to extol the virtues of Russia online. :/

    http://www.buzzfeed.com/maxseddon/documents-show-how-russias-troll-army-hit-america

    of course, what do you expect from ex-KGB?

    when you know what you`re doing is totally wrong you need a highly complex propaganda machine

    public forums, like this one, aren`t immune either.


  • #6477
    jimeryan22
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,170 ✭✭✭jimeryan22


    loughside wrote: »
    of course, what do you expect from ex-KGB?

    when you know what you`re doing is totally wrong you need a highly complex propaganda machine

    public forums, like this one, aren`t immune either.

    And the US is NO different.. It has the CIA and FBI and NSA to the dirty work... And of course they've their lovely new law "Obama care" in which personal private data is no longer private making it a perfect tool to crush desent through knowledge of peoples medical history namely mental health.. Etc. The doctors are now snitches that have to inform the government on people's ownership of firearms... Then there's the White House also using the IRS to go after political opponents... All totally illegal of course.. So what's the difference..?


  • #6478
    Elmer Blooker
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,241 ✭✭✭Elmer Blooker


    jimeryan22 wrote: »
    And the US is NO different.. It has the CIA and FBI and NSA to the dirty work...
    You're forgetting one thing - the US is immune from international law, Obama only said last week: "I believe in American exceptionalism with every fibre of my being" Scary Orwellian stuff!
    http://www.thefreedictionary.com/exceptionalism


  • #6479
    Sand
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,000 ✭✭✭✭Sand


    Count Dooku wrote: »
    Of course, thugs in Kiev government will deny their military crimes despite all evidences

    The problem the Russians have is they are so badly and blatantly lying in the propaganda that no one believes them. The boy who cried wolf is a well known story for a reason. The Ukrainian government is probably economical with the truth but nothing like the amazing scale of cynical dishonesty practised by the Russians.

    At this point if the Russians said it was raining, you'd have to go out and check for yourself.


  • #6480
    jimeryan22
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,170 ✭✭✭jimeryan22


    Sand wrote: »
    The problem the Russians have is they are so badly and blatantly lying in the propaganda that no one believes them. The boy who cried wolf is a well known story for a reason. The Ukrainian government is probably economical with the truth but nothing like the amazing scale of cynical dishonesty practised by the Russians.

    At this point if the Russians said it was raining, you'd have to go out and check for yourself.

    Wow... There it is, spoken like a true government hick... I'd nearly go as far as to call this some form of rascism..?
    People all through the thread with a blatant dark hatred of Russia... And to think of all the times others have been calling others anti US or anti EU... It's a total joke... I find it even stranger of your total belief in the media rhetoric..
    None of the representatives of the 3 belligerents will we call them are by no means innocent.. All guilty of corruption and propaganda.. There's no impartiality just your either on the side of US or Russia... Everybody knows Russia's past and what the poor average joe has had to live with for the past 100 years or more... But it's also becoming clearer every passing day about the cesspit of corruption poor America the former beacon of the world has become, the scandals breaking everyday day there are off the wall...

    Look up how they're treating their veterans these days.. VA hospitals..


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  • #6481
    Sand
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,000 ✭✭✭✭Sand


    jimeryan22 wrote: »
    Wow... There it is, spoken like a true government hick... I'd nearly go as far as to call this some form of rascism..?
    <unrelated rant about USA>

    Personal insult. Accusation of "rascism". Rant about the US.

    Yeah, one of us has got a fixed point of view alright.


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