Catholic-bashing.

FullblownRose · 31-05-2014 03:14AM #1

It's all the rage! Anyone else finding it tiresome? A bit hypocrytical, an excuse to be self righteous? Certainly, there are any people with good reason to shun *the r.c church as an organisation*. There are also may people who don't have a personal reason for their hateful attitude to catholics *as individuals* ! Needless to say the past misdeeds of many priests and nuns are abhorrent and inexcusable and the reputation of the organisation is understandably tarnished beyond repair imo.
I am not a Catholic, as it happens. I am just bored with it aand I also empathise with innocent people who have to endure insulting rearks because of their personal faith and in a sense being found guilty by association.

Turtwig · 31-05-2014 03:20AM

It's all the rage for very valid reasons. Atrocities committed tend to make people angry. Rights denied make them frustrated. If they didn't we wouldn't be human.

Catholics just aren't used to having their ideas scrutinized or criticised. There is some insults and personal attacks that I would consider bashing, but all too often criticism is conflated with bashing. Every person has the right to their opinion but if they wish to use that opinion to shape public policy they cannot expect an absence of public criticism.

B.A._Baracus · 31-05-2014 03:26AM

Sadly people are assholes.
People like to bash things that they are not, do not believe in, the opposite of their lifestyle, etc. It's all apart of blowing yourself up. "I'm right because X, Y, Z... but your wrong because of X, Y, Z!"

Like, the Catholic Church has alot to answer for. Because alot has gone on. But all too often you see people bashing religion as a whole.

krudler · 31-05-2014 03:30AM

B.A._Baracus wrote: »

Sadly people are assholes.
People like to bash things that they are not, do not believe in, the opposite of their lifestyle, etc. It's all apart of blowing yourself up. "I'm right because X, Y, Z... but your wrong because of X, Y, Z!"

Like, the Catholic Church has alot to answer for. Because alot has gone on. But all too often you see people bashing religion as a whole.

Isn't that exactly what the RCC does? people often confuse "calling organistations with outdated views out on their BS" with "bashing".

_Redzer_ · 31-05-2014 03:30AM

I don't hate catholics, I hate their religion. I have valid reasons for it though. I don't hold my opinions for no reason, just because "it's all the rage" these days... apparently.

B.A._Baracus · 31-05-2014 03:32AM

krudler wrote: »

Isn't that exactly what the RCC does? people often confuse "calling organistations with outdated views out on their BS" with "bashing".

Re-read what I said.
It's taking an issue against the roman catholic church (which there are plenty) but applying that to all over religion.

--LOS-- · 31-05-2014 03:44AM

Peoples memories are not that short and it's completely warranted.

RDM_83 again · 31-05-2014 04:02AM

Its just one of those things OP, its like making a big point of not being homophobic or not being racist, I respect people that actually stand up to against a majority opinion because it they feel its right, when the majority opinion is on your side and your not adding anything new its just the standard lazy back slapping that here is famous for.

FullblownRose · 31-05-2014 04:07AM

Turtwig wrote: »

It's all the rage for very valid reasons. Atrocities committed tend to make people angry. Rights denied make them frustrated. If they didn't we wouldn't be human.

Catholics just aren't used to having their ideas scrutinized or criticised. There is some insults and personal attacks that I would consider bashing, but all too often criticism is conflated with bashing. Every person has the right to their opinion but if they wish to use that opinion to shape public policy they cannot expect an absence of public criticism.

I already said there are people who are understandably anti catholic church for personal reasons. Youre conflating those with people who have not had direct experience of having any rights denied or atrocities perpetrated upon them yet they expound on their ill feeling towards the catholics as though they have a personal grievance with every catholic person.. I think catholics must live a very isolated life if they ''aren't used to ...being criticised'' conidering I see very vehement, misplaced and disproportionate criticism from other atheist acquaintances expressed on social networking sites on a very regular basis.!

It's perfectly posible and reasonable to express a view on public policies calmly and rationally, without being offensive to catholics. They can reasonably expect an absence of criticim that extends far beyond the matter of policy.

iwantmydinner · 31-05-2014 04:13AM

You say that as if the Catholic Church wasn't an organisation that presided over the systematic rape of children, followed by a systematic cover up. As if it didn't enslave young, pregnant women and steal their children, selling the babies for profit. As if it didn't starve 800 babies to death and then bury them in a mass, unmarked grave.

_Redzer_ · 31-05-2014 04:16AM

FullblownRose wrote: »

I already said there are people who are understandably anti catholic church for personal reasons. Youre conflating those with people who have not had direct experience of having any rights denied or atrocities perpetrated upon them yet they expound on their ill feeling towards the catholics as though they have a personal grievance with every catholic person.. I think catholics must live a very isolated life if they ''aren't used to ...being criticised'' conidering I see very vehement, misplaced and disproportionate criticism from other atheist acquaintances expressed on social networking sites on a very regular basis.!

It's perfectly posible and reasonable to express a view on public policies calmly and rationally, without being offensive to catholics. They can reasonably expect an absence of criticim that extends far beyond the matter of policy.

Why would you need to be personally affected by the Catholic Church in order to be against them? By your logic, anyone who isn't black or gay shouldn't care or get preoccupied by issues that don't personally affect them.

I don't have to be black to care or get involved about an issue of racism. If I think it's wrong, it's wrong in my view. Why would I step aside just because it doesn't affect me personally shows a lack of concern or care. How would any sort of social progression be achieved by that mindset?

The Catholic Church has carried out very serious atrocities in this country and they used to bash anyone who didn't conform with their ethos severely.

It's like the church has been hitting us over the head with the bible and now we say stop and they cry themselves as victims. They've been doing that for hundreds of years. If you can't take, don't give.

Turtwig · 31-05-2014 04:23AM

FullblownRose wrote: »

I already said there are people who are understandably anti catholic church for personal reasons. Youre conflating those with people who have not had direct experience of having any rights denied or atrocities perpetrated upon them yet they expound on their ill feeling towards the catholics as though they have a personal grievance with every catholic person.. I think catholics must live a very isolated life if they ''aren't used to ...being criticised'' conidering I see very vehement, misplaced and disproportionate criticism from other atheist acquaintances expressed on social networking sites on a very regular basis.!

It's perfectly posible and reasonable to express a view on public policies calmly and rationally, without being offensive to catholics. They can reasonably expect an absence of criticim that extends far beyond the matter of policy.

One doesn't need a personal experience to be able to empathise with others. What you're saying is akin to saying that you can't be outraged at the situation in Syria if you don't directly experience it. Many people are outraged at the church because they EMPATHISE with others. It could just have easily been themselves or their families and friends that were directly affected.

You're targeting that minority group of loons. Who will bash anything that isn't their belief e.g "Gaelic football is great, I've don't have an interest in cricket ergo it's sh1t." Those people will always ignorantly bash stuff and insult personalities. But they should never be allowed to drown out, or downplay, the valid expressions of others.

Social media is 99% idiotic comments anyway.

FullblownRose · 31-05-2014 04:31AM

_Redzer_ wrote: »

Why would you need to be personally affected by the Catholic Church in order to be against them? By your logic, anyone who isn't black or gay shouldn't care or get preoccupied by issues that don't personally affect them.

I don't have to be black to care or get involved about an issue of racism. If I think it's wrong, it's wrong in my view. Why would I step aside just because it doesn't affect me personally shows a lack of concern or care. How would any sort of social progression be achieved by that mindset?

The Catholic Church has carried out very serious atrocities in this country and they used to bash anyone who didn't conform with their ethos severely.

It's like the church has been hitting us over the head with the bible and now we say stop and they cry themselves as victims. They've been doing that for hundreds of years. If you can't take, don't give.

You see unable to separate the actions of those individuals responsible for the atrocities with the members of the r.c church as a whole. Your language is quite militant and combative. I don't personally feel that anyone has hit me over the head with a bible nor have I been forced coerced or indoctrinated, i simply excercised my free will and made my own mind up. I don't think it is logical to attempt to make a stand against inustice by attacking a whole religion any more than it would make sense to blame Nigeria for Boko Haram.

FullblownRose · 31-05-2014 04:35AM

Turtwig wrote: »

One doesn't need a personal experience to be able to empathise with others. What you're saying is akin to saying that you can't be outraged at the situation in Syria if you don't directly experience it. Many people are outraged at the church because they EMPATHISE with others. It could just have easily been themselves or their families and friends that were directly affected.

You're targeting that minority group of loons. Who will bash anything that isn't their belief e.g "Gaelic football is great, I've don't have an interest in cricket ergo it's sh1t." Those people will always ignorantly bash stuff and insult personalities. But they should never be allowed to drown out, or downplay, the valid expressions of others.

Social media is 99% idiotic comments anyway.

That's far from what I said actually. By deriding ordinary modern day catholics you arent empathising with victims. I do not think the ''loon' are in the minority- as I have said I very frequently see vitriolic remarks about catholics.

FullblownRose · 31-05-2014 04:38AM

You don't need to be personally affected to be appaled and to empathise but I think indiscriminate vitriol aimed at anyone who is still associated with the religion is a very poor and ineffective way to express your empathy. It's not logical, either.

jank · 31-05-2014 04:42AM

It's just fashionable now, people say they have good reasons to but you never hear those same people bash Islam near as much for example where the treatment of minorities is much much worse.

Turtwig · 31-05-2014 04:47AM

jank wrote: »

It's just fashionable now, people say they have good reasons to but you never hear those same people bash Islam near as much for example where the treatment of minorities is much much worse.

Funny thing is you rarely hear anyone, including Catholic demographics, bash Islam because well fear of axe wielding nutters do tend to have an influence on the confidence of people to state stuff in public.

That said, people do criticise Islam. It wasn't Islam though that played the dominant role in the events in Ireland. So it's a bit like expecting rugby fans to bash the FAI for problems in the rugby administration.

Dozen Wicked Words · 31-05-2014 04:51AM

jank wrote: »

It's just fashionable now, people say they have good reasons to but you never hear those same people bash Islam near as much for example where the treatment of minorities is much much worse.

It's very true, but also probably a lot less relevant to people who grew up in Ireland.

_Redzer_ · 31-05-2014 05:01AM

FullblownRose wrote: »

You see unable to separate the actions of those individuals responsible for the atrocities with the members of the r.c church as a whole. Your language is quite militant and combative. I don't personally feel that anyone has hit me over the head with a bible nor have I been forced coerced or indoctrinated, i simply excercised my free will and made my own mind up. I don't think it is logical to attempt to make a stand against inustice by attacking a whole religion any more than it would make sense to blame Nigeria for Boko Haram.

The church as a whole fights against me constantly. If I'm not a deviant I'm a pedophole apparently. So yes, I have good reason to be combative.

They constantly shove their ideals over me by wanting me to adhere to their world view by concerning themselves with civil matters they've nothing to do with.

So if I'm not to attack the church as a whole and the ethos they teach and preach, who am I to blame instead?

jank · 31-05-2014 05:06AM

Turtwig wrote: »

Funny thing is you rarely hear anyone, including Catholic demographics, bash Islam because well fear of axe wielding nutters do tend to have an influence on the confidence of people to state stuff in public.

That said, people do criticise Islam. It wasn't Islam though that played the dominant role in the events in Ireland. So it's a bit like expecting rugby fans to bash the FAI for problems in the rugby administration.

Well if you bash Islam in public more often then not you are accused of being an islamophobe and a supporter of some right wing scary party. It comes at a price, while bashing Christians or Catholics is like picking apples, easy and more often then not is supported by a certain demography. There is a big mob mentality at play here.

jank · 31-05-2014 05:09AM

_Redzer_ wrote: »

The church as a whole fights against me constantly. If I'm not a deviant I'm a pedophole apparently. So yes, I have good reason to be combative.

They constantly shove their ideals over me by wanting me to adhere to their world view by concerning themselves with civil matters they've nothing to do with.

So if I'm not to attack the church as a whole and the ethos they teach and preach, who am I to blame instead?

It might come to a shock but people and organisations have a right to air their opinions. Freedom of religion is not freedom from religion.

_Redzer_ · 31-05-2014 05:12AM

jank wrote: »

It might come to a shock but people and organisations have a right to air their opinions. Freedom of religion is not freedom from religion.

By that very statement why are you then bitching about people bashing the church?

Freedom of expression and all that.

FullblownRose · 31-05-2014 05:17AM

_Redzer_ wrote: »

The church as a whole fights against me constantly. If I'm not a deviant I'm a pedophole apparently. So yes, I have good reason to be combative.

They constantly shove their ideals over me by wanting me to adhere to their world view by concerning themselves with civil matters they've nothing to do with.

So if I'm not to attack the church as a whole and the ethos they teach and preach, who am I to blame instead?

I see where you are coming from alright. I don't think the church should have any role in secular matters and I'm glad I'm not a member of the organisation because even if it is to evolve it will never evolve quickly enough at this stage. All that can be done is to remain focused on tackling these issues I suppose.

anto9 · 31-05-2014 05:22AM

The Catholic Church is evil .Prove me wrong .As well as Child abuse and cover up they helped the Nazi in the WW2.
(i am an ex-Catholic ,now leaning toward Buddhism)

krudler · 31-05-2014 05:22AM

jank wrote: »

It might come to a shock but people and organisations have a right to air their opinions. Freedom of religion is not freedom from religion.

And people have a right to disagree with those opinions

Daith · 31-05-2014 06:57AM

jank wrote: »

It might come to a shock but people and organisations have a right to air their opinions. Freedom of religion is not freedom from religion.

Yeah yeah everyone has an opinion. Having an opinion doesn't mean that opinion is right and can't be criticized though.

A right to have an opinion. Not to air them otherwise we wouldn't have libel and defamation laws.

LordSutch · 31-05-2014 07:22AM

As a non RC looking in from the outside, I get the impression that the RC Church 'in Ireland' is undergoing something of a mini reformation of sorts in recent years. which is a good thing IMO.

Subtle changes.

stefanovich · 31-05-2014 07:29AM

Bashing Catholics is perfectly fine. The only religion you can't bash is Islam...

Arthur Beesley · 31-05-2014 07:31AM

OP, have you ever bashed the bishop?

If so, then you are a hypocrite.

gctest50 · 31-05-2014 07:42AM

Arguing with a Christian is like playing chess with a pigeon.

You could be the greatest player in the world, but the pigeon will still knock over all the pieces, **** on the board and strut around triumphantly.

5uspect · 31-05-2014 07:45AM

So deserved criticism of a vile institution that went for centuries without it is now Catholic bashing? The current fear of criticising Islam is not much different to the societal power once wielded by the Catholic Church.

If you're going to indoctrinate generation after generation in our schools you're going to have to accept that people will reject and criticise the bull**** they were told when more and more people go onto secular third level education.

Catholic-bashing.

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