Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Please note that it is not permitted to have referral links posted in your signature. Keep these links contained in the appropriate forum. Thank you.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2055940817/signature-rules

Speeding Questions

2»

Comments

  • #32
    visual
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,267 ✭✭✭visual


    Sworn statement of gardai is the only thing required to prosecute. The judge will be interested in establisheding that the driver car, date and place is correct as on summons. Anything else said is irrelevant. If you get more than 5 mins in court I be surprised it certainly won't get suspended while the Gardaí is requested to run back to the station to get proof the equipment is maintained and calibrated

    the only thing the Gardaí will bring with him is copy of summons and his notebook.


  • #33
    househero
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,094 ✭✭✭househero


    almostover wrote: »
    A weasel eh? I did not think of the calibration issue at the time as I was embarrassed at being pulled over. I think now my best course of action is to wait, hope that it was just a warning to scare me and if not pay the fine and move on. It seems that the Gardai do not need to provide irrefutable proof of speeding to secure a conviction, which is crazy and it goes against the 'Innocent until proven guilty' that justice is based on. I am only complaining because the system is so open to corruption when speeding fines are based on a Guard just saying 'He/She was speeding because I said so and I'm the boss'.

    I think the real weasel here is the guy hiding behind his keyboard, sitting a top his high horse, pontificating to someone like me making an honest query on motor traffic law.

    No you are wrong.

    You broke the law.

    You openly admitted you broke the law.

    Now you are trying to sly your way out if it, it is not honest or admirable to attempt to get away with something you openly admit to. I have no empathy for you. Don't admit guilt next time.

    I'm not hiding behind a computer, I am a man and I will tell to your face, YOU BROKE THE LAW, YOU ADMITTED YOU BROKE THE LAW. NOW PAY THE PENNIES AND TAKE THE POINTS.


    If you were NOT speeding, fight the case in court. EU law superceeds Irish law. If you read my posts you will see I was trying to help you. The posts about equipment are incorrect.


  • #34
    househero
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,094 ✭✭✭househero


    While I'm here...

    From your half arsed description, You didn't get done for speeding. So lay off the drink n drugs and stop being paranoid.

    They wernt holding a 'speed camera' hahaha ah the thought of the lads brandishing a 15ft pole makes me laugh. It was a radar gun and they chased you down after.

    You would know if he was doing you for speeding. As he would have told you.

    Dont speed next time. And think yourself very very lucky.


  • #35
    ironclaw
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,004 ✭✭✭ironclaw


    househero wrote: »
    . It was a radar gun and they chased you down after.

    You know nothing. Please leave and stop embarrassing yourself. You are arguing about technology and law you do not fully understand.

    The OP has a right to challenge what is an unfair and unjust situation. Someone speeding or not speeding, thats for their own conscience. Buts its wrong in a democracy for a single individual using unverified equipment to be categorically right no matter the situation. There has to be stops and check balances. Its all well and good until someone who is not speeding is convicted of it. CiniO's example being a prime one.


  • #36
    visual
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,267 ✭✭✭visual


    ironclaw wrote: »
    You know nothing. Please leave and stop embarrassing yourself. You are arguing about technology and law you do not fully understand.

    The OP has a right to challenge what is an unfair and unjust situation. Someone speeding or not speeding, thats for their own conscience. Buts its wrong in a democracy for a single individual using unverified equipment to be categorically right no matter the situation. There has to be stops and check balances. Its all well and good until someone who is not speeding is convicted of it. CiniO's example being a prime one.

    while I agree with there should be checks and balances there is none it is Garda word against yours and what the garda say in court is taken as fact. I know this from my own experience.

    Sitting at traffic lights waithing to turn left garda motorcyclist on road to my left.

    Left turn filter comes on I proceed garda uturns and comes after me pulls me over and accuse me of breaking the lights. I told him I waited until filter light came on but all he had to say was he is traffic cor gardaí and I will have my say in court.

    Judge only askes how do I plead I said not guilty your honour. Bang of hammer fine 50 euro. (No penalty points back then) that was also the same fine for the others up on similar charges for breaking lights who pleaded guilty.

    There is courts the law and while we presume justice that a fairtail

    there is no checks and balances if a gardai makes a mistake its your proplem.

    Another time I was summon to court for failing to produce insurance tax driving licence I did produce them so it was struck out. The lady before me was in exactly the same position and when gardai said strick out on all counts the judge hit his hamner and said dismissed. The lady wasn't happy and said it was disgracful to be dragged before the courts for something she was innocent of and not receive apology. Judge gave her two options go now and be quite or wait there and be done for contemp of court.

    Only a fool would believe there is justice inside court rooms. Only an idiot would believe that they really can have their say on the day.

    Judges in the lower courts treat you as guilty and only deciding your punishment

    so while I too would like to see checks and balances I know it won't happen.


  • Advertisement
  • #37
    househero
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,094 ✭✭✭househero


    ironclaw wrote: »
    You know nothing. Please leave and stop embarrassing yourself. You are arguing about technology and law you do not fully understand.

    The OP has a right to challenge what is an unfair and unjust situation. Someone speeding or not speeding, thats for their own conscience. Buts its wrong in a democracy for a single individual using unverified equipment to be categorically right no matter the situation. There has to be stops and check balances. Its all well and good until someone who is not speeding is convicted of it. CiniO's example being a prime one.

    What I know, is my rights. You seem upset about not knowing yours. If you are badly represented or poorly educated good luck to you. We could both be accused of the same crime, I rather my chances better than your own.

    Reread 7.a and the law refers to 'radar guns' it is you sir, that is misdirected and misinformed.

    The op has no right to admit guilt 'I was travelling at 105' or whatever the hell he said. And then go looking for a way out of it.


  • #38
    househero
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,094 ✭✭✭househero


    almostover wrote: »

    Wasn't paying any particular attention to my speed at the time and it was too late to brake as there was a car right behind me. Looked down at the speedometer and was doing 105 kph ish. Thought I might be caught.

    Openly admitting guilt of the crime he may* have been accused of. *he may have just received a warning, that is not clear from his description.

    FYI Guards read boards.ie

    The OP goes on to explain how he was pulled over with another car, describes the incident in detail, including make colour and type of vehicle.

    And then asks if he can get away with it!

    No, no you can't. You just publicly admitted guilt, absolutly retarded.

    The no checks and balances claim is unfounded, I have pointed out why previously. I refuse to overtly assist someone who could be so foolish. I am sure this thread will be a talking point at the station.


  • #39
    No Pants
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,347 ✭✭✭No Pants


    almostover wrote: »
    sitting a top his high horse
    FFS. Mods, can we ban this phrase in the charter or something?


  • #40
    ironclaw
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,004 ✭✭✭ironclaw


    The op has no right to admit guilt 'I was travelling at 105' or whatever the hell he said. And then go looking for a way out of it.

    The issue here isn't an admission of guilt or if / not the OP was speeding. I don't care. Thats for their conscience. Having been on numerous 'ball' rallies both in Europe and America, you have people doing 160mph+ on public roads. What happens when they are caught? Most admit it straight away and take the fine. However the key difference is if they wanted to fight it (irregardless of the speed) they could at least expect a decent day in court with proper checks, balances and review of the equipment (and people) used to prosecute them.

    Imagine DNA in a murder investigation could just be slapped in front of the court. Its an extreme example but in that case there would be a fine tooth comb run over the evidence and the way it was collected / processed. Of course, people will say 'Its only €80 and 2 points' but still, its the principle of being potentially accused of a crime you did not commit. No one in this world will have a false allegation sit well with them.

    I'm not looking for loopholes and I have no interest in getting someone off the hook, my argument is purely a Garda can point at you and say you were speeding. And there is nothing you can do about it.

    Also, please leave the 'educated' remarks out of it because your syntax and context suggests someone who has little.


  • #41
    almostover
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,398 ✭✭✭almostover


    househero You'll be glad to know that my fixed charge penalty points notice came in the door this morning for doing 110 km/h in a 100 km/h zone. It seems pointless to challenge it as the success of my challenge will all depend on the judges decision on the day.

    Is it any wonder people have no respect for the laws/policing in this country when speed measuring equipment does not need to be calibrated in order to secure a conviction? This and the blatant positioning of speed traps in areas where it is easiest to catch a large number of people for speeding irregardless of the number of accidents/fatalities that have occurred/are likely to occur in the area. Only this morning a man was killed a few miles from my home place on a national primary road where there have been numerous serious accidents and fatalities over the years. This road with the same 100km/h limit as the dual carriageway on which is was caught and which is far more dangerous. Yet I have yet to come across a Garda speed trap along this stretch of road.

    I have learned 2 things from this experience:

    1. Slow down on the roads.
    2. Those in charge of policing/road safety and the public service in general haven't much of a clue how to enforce our road traffic laws in a way that benefits the ordinary citizen.


  • Advertisement
  • #42
    visual
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,267 ✭✭✭visual


    Sorry to hear about your fine.

    There is no public service in motoring
    its the cash cow vs money grab.

    After you pay your fine accept the points the sharks in insurance will be circling for their pound of flesh too.


  • #43
    Del2005
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,180 ✭✭✭✭Del2005


    almostover wrote: »
    A weasel eh? I did not think of the calibration issue at the time as I was embarrassed at being pulled over. I think now my best course of action is to wait, hope that it was just a warning to scare me and if not pay the fine and move on. It seems that the Gardai do not need to provide irrefutable proof of speeding to secure a conviction, which is crazy and it goes against the 'Innocent until proven guilty' that justice is based on. I am only complaining because the system is so open to corruption when speeding fines are based on a Guard just saying 'He/She was speeding because I said so and I'm the boss'.

    I think the real weasel here is the guy hiding behind his keyboard, sitting a top his high horse, pontificating to someone like me making an honest query on motor traffic law.

    Innocent till proven guilty is only for criminal justice. Motoring and civil don't presume the defendant didn't do it. And the kicker is that the EU has ruled that driving isn't a right it's a privilege so the law against self incriminating your self doesn't apply. UK motorists took the fixed charge penalty system there to the court and lost.


  • #44
    TheNog
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,160 ✭✭✭TheNog


    almostover wrote: »

    Is it any wonder people have no respect for the laws/policing in this country when speed measuring equipment does not need to be calibrated in order to secure a conviction?

    Who told you the speed gun is not calibrated? It's done every 3 months. If one gets a heavy knock it will not work and go again for re-calibration.


  • #45
    Del2005
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,180 ✭✭✭✭Del2005


    TheNog wrote: »
    Who told you the speed gun is not calibrated? It's done every 3 months. If one gets a heavy knock it will not work and go again for re-calibration.

    The statue doesn't require proof of calibration to secure a conviction, so therefore it doesn't matter if it's calibrated or not. A legal requirement for something not being required to work to secure a conviction makes a mockery of the law it's supposed to enforce.


  • #46
    djimi
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,237 ✭✭✭✭djimi


    visual wrote: »
    After you pay your fine accept the points the sharks in insurance will be circling for their pound of flesh too.

    Not for 2 points they wont, or even 4-6 sometimes.


  • #47
    TheNog
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,160 ✭✭✭TheNog


    Del2005 wrote: »
    A legal requirement for something not being required to work to secure a conviction makes a mockery of the law it's supposed to enforce.

    What?????

    Of course it works if a driver is stopped for speeding.


  • #48
    _Kaiser_
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,251 ✭✭✭✭_Kaiser_


    TheNog wrote: »
    What?????

    Of course it works if a driver is stopped for speeding.

    Says who? With no requirement to prove it how do we know that? What about Cinio's story on the last page?

    You're not going to tell me the Gardai aren't above messing with the system now after the last 6 months are you?

    If there's actual evidence to support the claim then fair enough, but the idea that convictions can be secured based on the "word" of a Garda - a force which has shown itself to be unfit for purpose - is ridiculous IMO.

    As far as I recall you're a Garda yourself though aren't you?


  • #49
    TheNog
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,160 ✭✭✭TheNog


    Kaiser2000 wrote: »
    Says who? With no requirement to prove it how do we know that? What about Cinio's story on the last page?

    You're not going to tell me the Gardai aren't above messing with the system now after the last 6 months are you?

    If there's actual evidence to support the claim then fair enough, but the idea that convictions can be secured based on the "word" of a Garda - a force which has shown itself to be unfit for purpose - is ridiculous IMO.

    As far as I recall you're a Garda yourself though aren't you?

    Cinio's story if I'm correct says the equipment doesn't have to be calibrated which is untrue. The ultralyte has to be calibrated every 3-4 months to ensure it is working properly. From local arrangements that I see it is done. I know this because I use the speed gun regularly.

    As for messing with the system well that's for public opinion. I have only commented to set Cinio's take on calibration of the equipment only. Everything else tbh is so far removed from me that I won't comment.

    You suggest that a word of a Garda should not be sufficient which is not right. If that happens how long do you think the word of a civilian witness in criminal cases without any forensic evidence would stand in court?


  • #50
    almostover
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,398 ✭✭✭almostover


    TheNog wrote: »
    Cinio's story if I'm correct says the equipment doesn't have to be calibrated which is untrue. The ultralyte has to be calibrated every 3-4 months to ensure it is working properly. From local arrangements that I see it is done. I know this because I use the speed gun regularly.

    As for messing with the system well that's for public opinion. I have only commented to set Cinio's take on calibration of the equipment only. Everything else tbh is so far removed from me that I won't comment.

    You suggest that a word of a Garda should not be sufficient which is not right. If that happens how long do you think the word of a civilian witness in criminal cases without any forensic evidence would stand in court?

    The simple fact is that if the Gardai are convicting someone for speeding, which they determined using a speed 'gun', then proof of the calibration of that 'gun' should be provided with the fixed charge penalty notice, in my opinion.

    I am paying the fine and sending off the paperwork by registered post. Have heard horror stories of people receiveing court summons because the Gardai claimed that payments got lost in the post/the payments weren't received so I want proof that I paid it in time. It's interesting that the ordinary citizen must take measures to provide proof of payment/postage of a speeding fine but the Gardai who pursued the conviction of that fined need to provide no proof at all of the crime.

    Also it is completely ridiculous that there is no online facility to pay these motor traffic offence fines. This is 2014 for flip sake! The payment could be done in 2-3 minutes in front of the computer screen and would save the force thousands of man hours and Euro's in administration costs! The Gardai, along with many state bodies are still about 20-30 years behind the rest of society.


  • #51
    TheNog
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,160 ✭✭✭TheNog


    almostover wrote: »
    The simple fact is that if the Gardai are convicting someone for speeding, which they determined using a speed 'gun', then proof of the calibration of that 'gun' should be provided with the fixed charge penalty notice, in my opinion.

    I am paying the fine and sending off the paperwork by registered post. Have heard horror stories of people receiveing court summons because the Gardai claimed that payments got lost in the post/the payments weren't received so I want proof that I paid it in time. It's interesting that the ordinary citizen must take measures to provide proof of payment/postage of a speeding fine but the Gardai who pursued the conviction of that fined need to provide no proof at all of the crime.

    Also it is completely ridiculous that there is no online facility to pay these motor traffic offence fines. This is 2014 for flip sake! The payment could be done in 2-3 minutes in front of the computer screen and would save the force thousands of man hours and Euro's in administration costs! The Gardai, along with many state bodies are still about 20-30 years behind the rest of society.

    First off a Garda does not convict anyone, that is the judges job.

    Secondly the presumption the speed gun was properly calibrated at the time of alleged offence was a law brought in by government. If you want that law changed then bring it to the attention of the government/TD. To make it clear AGS enforces the law but does not create them.

    Yes we have all heard of the horror stories of ppl not receiving the fixed fine in the post and ending up in court. I'm sure some are genuine cases but An Post must have a serious black hole somewhere.

    As for investing in computerisation, well if want to have a look at nearly every GRA annual meeting you will see them calling for more investment. Fact is policing in this country is and always has been done on the cheap by every government. You call for more money to spent in policing then you will have the full support of AGS.


  • Advertisement
  • #52
    _Kaiser_
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,251 ✭✭✭✭_Kaiser_


    TheNog wrote: »
    Cinio's story if I'm correct says the equipment doesn't have to be calibrated which is untrue. The ultralyte has to be calibrated every 3-4 months to ensure it is working properly. From local arrangements that I see it is done. I know this because I use the speed gun regularly.

    No, Cinio's story says that he was pulled in by 2 Gardai who claimed he was doing 20 km/h over the limit and only when challenged on this by him - and breathalysing him and checking his documents, presumably in an attempt to see if they could get him on something else - did they trot out the line that the equipment must be misreading.. which according to you is impossible!
    As for messing with the system well that's for public opinion. I have only commented to set Cinio's take on calibration of the equipment only. Everything else tbh is so far removed from me that I won't comment.

    You suggest that a word of a Garda should not be sufficient which is not right. If that happens how long do you think the word of a civilian witness in criminal cases without any forensic evidence would stand in court?

    I'm afraid the well-documented antics of your colleagues and superiors are far more far-reaching than yourself, AGS management and Enda would like.

    AGS has proven itself to be what many people have already suspected - little more than an Old Boys brigade for the well-connected, a family employment scheme, and a keystone cops outfit rife with corruption and incompetence (evidence money going missing from stations, deleting penalty points for the rich and famous, McBrearty etc etc), not to mention some of the other allegations brought by the Whistleblowers. I won't even get into how these men were supposedly treated by their so-called friends and colleagues (rats indeed!)

    As a result of the above (which are hardly the isolated actions of a few), it forces us to question the competence and reliability of the organisation as a whole, and it is for THAT reason that the "word" of a Garda cannot and should not be relied on as the sole means of bringing a prosecution. Even the "word" of a cabinet minister and your former Commissioner wasn't enough to stop the truth from being exposed.

    I'm sure there are decent Gardai who take the job, the responsibility it carries, and the consequences it can have on people's lives seriously... but unfortunately it seems that such individuals are either in the minority, or happy to go along with the current system in order to advance their careers, or just to avoid the treatment received by the Whistleblowers.

    AGS is so broken at this point that it needs to be completely dismantled and rebuilt from the ground up with effective independent oversight with the power to enforce sanctions on members (at any level) that don't fit the bill.

    Only when that's done can we talk about taking someone's "word" in a court room - and you can't compare Joe Public's word which is regularly torn apart by counsel anyway, to that of a representative of an organisation which is supposedly beyond reproach (but in reality far from it) but taken as gospel by Judges anyway as is the case now.


  • #53
    TheNog
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,160 ✭✭✭TheNog


    Kaiser2000 wrote: »
    No, Cinio's story says that he was pulled in by 2 Gardai who claimed he was doing 20 km/h over the limit and only when challenged on this by him - and breathalysing him and checking his documents, presumably in an attempt to see if they could get him on something else - did they trot out the line that the equipment must be misreading.. which according to you is impossible!

    Again from my experience the equipment should not misread and has a safety feature that prevents it working if it is beyond normal working parameters.

    I
    Kaiser2000 wrote: »
    i'm afraid the well-documented antics of your colleagues and superiors are far more far-reaching than yourself, AGS management and Enda would like.

    AGS has proven itself to be what many people have already suspected - little more than an Old Boys brigade for the well-connected, a family employment scheme, and a keystone cops outfit rife with corruption and incompetence (evidence money going missing from stations, deleting penalty points for the rich and famous, McBrearty etc etc), not to mention some of the other allegations brought by the Whistleblowers. I won't even get into how these men were supposedly treated by their so-called friends and colleagues (rats indeed!)

    As a result of the above (which are hardly the isolated actions of a few), it forces us to question the competence and reliability of the organisation as a whole, and it is for THAT reason that the "word" of a Garda cannot and should not be relied on as the sole means of bringing a prosecution. Even the "word" of a cabinet minister and your former Commissioner wasn't enough to stop the truth from being exposed.

    I'm sure there are decent Gardai who take the job, the responsibility it carries, and the consequences it can have on people's lives seriously... but unfortunately it seems that such individuals are either in the minority, or happy to go along with the current system in order to advance their careers, or just to avoid the treatment received by the Whistleblowers.

    AGS is so broken at this point that it needs to be completely dismantled and rebuilt from the ground up with effective independent oversight with the power to enforce sanctions on members (at any level) that don't fit the bill.

    Only when that's done can we talk about taking someone's "word" in a court room - and you can't compare Joe Public's word which is regularly torn apart by counsel anyway, to that of a representative of an organisation which is supposedly beyond reproach (but in reality far from it) but taken as gospel by Judges anyway as is the case now.

    So to briefly summarise this part of your long winded post and highlight solutions to the problems rather than just the problems themselves - more investment in AGS and establishment of a Policing Oversight Board. The GRA has been asking for these for years.

    By the way no organisation on this planet is infallible. To think so is just naive.


  • #54
    _Kaiser_
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,251 ✭✭✭✭_Kaiser_


    TheNog wrote: »
    Again from my experience the equipment should not misread and has a safety feature that prevents it working if it is beyond normal working parameters.

    So, Cinio is making the whole thing up then is he?
    So to briefly summarise this part of your long winded post and highlight solutions to the problems rather than just the problems themselves - more investment in AGS and establishment of a Policing Oversight Board. The GRA has been asking for these for years.

    By the way no organisation on this planet is infallible. To think so is just naive.

    I think throwing more resources at an organisation as broken as AGS would be an even bigger waste of money if the people involved don't change. But I note how you glossed over the points raised all the same - just as AGS and the new minister are busy trying to do at the moment too. Condescension is wasted on me too - it just helps proves my point.


  • #55
    TheNog
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,160 ✭✭✭TheNog


    Kaiser2000 wrote: »
    So, Cinio is making the whole thing up then is he?

    Never said that. I wasn't there that's why I commented on how speed gun works.

    I
    Kaiser2000 wrote: »
    think throwing more resources at an organisation as broken as AGS would be an even bigger waste of money if the people involved don't change. But I note how you glossed over the points raised all the same - just as AGS and the new minister are busy trying to do at the moment too. Condescension is wasted on me too - it just helps proves my point.

    Not glossing over any points and not being condescending. Just not bothered to pass comment on well known issues which would also drag the thread off topic but have highlighted potential solutions.


  • #56
    Iwannahurl
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,156 ✭✭✭Iwannahurl


    almostover wrote: »
    househero You'll be glad to know that my fixed charge penalty points notice came in the door this morning for doing 110 km/h in a 100 km/h zone. It seems pointless to challenge it as the success of my challenge will all depend on the judges decision on the day.

    Is it any wonder people have no respect for the laws/policing in this country when speed measuring equipment does not need to be calibrated in order to secure a conviction?
    almostover wrote: »
    Wasn't paying any particular attention to my speed at the time and it was too late to brake as there was a car right behind me.


    Do you think it might help in future if you paid more attention to your speedometer and less attention to whipped-up hysteria about alleged calibration issues?

    The policing problems I see are insufficient and inconsistent enforcement, eg not enough roads policing and the recent Penalty Points scandal.

    The alleged calibration problem is a non-issue as far as I am concerned, because it's highly unlikely I will ever need to be done for speeding. In the unlikely event that I am caught for speeding it will be because I am actually driving too fast, not because a Gatso is malfunctioning or the Traffic Corps is corrupt.


  • #57
    almostover
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,398 ✭✭✭almostover


    Iwannahurl wrote: »
    Do you think it might help in future if you paid more attention to your speedometer and less attention to whipped-up hysteria about alleged calibration issues?

    The policing problems I see are insufficient and inconsistent enforcement, eg not enough roads policing and the recent Penalty Points scandal.

    The alleged calibration problem is a non-issue as far as I am concerned, because it's highly unlikely I will ever need to be done for speeding. In the unlikely event that I am caught for speeding it will be because I am actually driving too fast, not because a Gatso is malfunctioning or the Traffic Corps is corrupt.

    Let me propose a hypothetical situation to you, it seems that by your post that you never speed. Lets say one morning on your way to work you are travelling on a road whose speed limit is 80kph. You are travelling at 75kph and feel safe that you are travelling at a legal speed. You approach a Garda speed trap, the Gardai at which are using a speed 'gun' that has not been calibrated in a year. Their speed 'gun' is in fact producing a reading 10 kph higher than the actual speed of your car but the calibration of this 'gun' hasn't been checked in a year and the Gardai are under the impression that you're travelling at 85kph in an 80kph zone. You are pulled over, your licence and registration noted and a fixed penatly notice of €80 is issued to you and 2 points are put on your licence.

    So now, even though you were travelling at a legal speed, you have been convicted of an offence that you did not commit. Best of all, if you challenge the penalty in court, there is no obligation for the Gardai to provide the judge with evidence that their speed 'gun' was working correctly and you are now liable to a €120 fine and 4 penalty points.

    So please tell me now, in light of the hypothetical situation detailed above, that I am whipping-up hysteria about alleged calibration issues? Their has to be checks in place on Garda equipment and IMO the current system is seriously flawed and perhaps infringing on people rights.


  • #58
    slimjimmc
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,786 ✭✭✭slimjimmc


    almostover wrote: »
    Let me propose a hypothetical situation to you, it seems that by your post that you never speed. Lets say one morning on your way to work you are travelling on a road whose speed limit is 80kph. You are travelling at 75kph and feel safe that you are travelling at a legal speed. You approach a Garda speed trap, the Gardai at which are using a speed 'gun' that has not been calibrated in a year. Their speed 'gun' is in fact producing a reading 10 kph higher than the actual speed of your car but the calibration of this 'gun' hasn't been checked in a year and the Gardai are under the impression that you're travelling at 85kph in an 80kph zone. You are pulled over, your licence and registration noted and a fixed penatly notice of €80 is issued to you and 2 points are put on your licence.

    So now, even though you were travelling at a legal speed, you have been convicted of an offence that you did not commit. Best of all, if you challenge the penalty in court, there is no obligation for the Gardai to provide the judge with evidence that their speed 'gun' was working correctly and you are now liable to a €120 fine and 4 penalty points.

    So please tell me now, in light of the hypothetical situation detailed above, that I am whipping-up hysteria about alleged calibration issues? Their has to be checks in place on Garda equipment and IMO the current system is seriously flawed and perhaps infringing on people rights.

    Just to be devil's advocate here, what if the speed gun was calibrated that very morning but 5mins before you came along it got a knock that caused it to over-read by 10km/h. Would the outcome be any different?


  • #59
    CiniO
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,069 ✭✭✭✭CiniO


    Kaiser2000 wrote: »
    No, Cinio's story says that he was pulled in by 2 Gardai who claimed he was doing 20 km/h over the limit and only when challenged on this by him - and breathalysing him and checking his documents, presumably in an attempt to see if they could get him on something else - did they trot out the line that the equipment must be misreading.. which according to you is impossible!


    Kaiser2000 wrote: »
    So, Cinio is making the whole thing up then is he?


    Sorry for causing confusion.
    It was late and I was tired, and in my post I forgot to mention, the situation didn't happen in Ireland. It happened in Poland, where there is clear law about speeding detection equipment calibration and requirement of police to be able to confirm it by anyone caught speeding.
    My point was, that even though such law exists there, doesn't mean that equipment is really calibrated.
    I didn't bother asking them for calibration cert, as I knew even if they didn't have it (which is very unlikely) they would most likely get it organised somehow anyway, no matter if equipment was properly calibrated or not, or if it was showing the right speed or not. In my case it certainly wasn't.
    Or possibly they could have measured someone else's speed, and pulled me over to push all the blame on me.
    Whatever.

    My point was that requirement in law for calibration and requirement by police officer to be able to present calibration cert, doesn't really change anything, so fact that in Ireland they are not required to provide it, is fairly irrelevant.


  • #60
    No Pants
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,347 ✭✭✭No Pants


    djimi wrote: »
    Not for 2 points they wont, or even 4-6 sometimes.
    That attitude could change tomorrow, or at any point in the future.


  • Advertisement
  • #61
    Aston martin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 49 ✭Aston martin


    The Go Safe Vans have two AGD radars in them. The Redflex company who are a third owner of Go Safe put the 2 X AGD Radars in a a box and call it a Redflex radar system. Then AGD come along and and issue a calibration cert on their own radars ,,,,

    NOT INDEPENDENT IN RELATION TO SPEED RADARS ARE AGD GOING TO SAY THAT THEIR RADAR HAS BEEN VAULTY FOR 3 MONTHS AND WE ARE GOING TO COMPENSATE ALL THAT WHERE CAUGHT IN ERROR


This discussion has been closed.
Advertisement