almostover wrote: » A weasel eh? I did not think of the calibration issue at the time as I was embarrassed at being pulled over. I think now my best course of action is to wait, hope that it was just a warning to scare me and if not pay the fine and move on. It seems that the Gardai do not need to provide irrefutable proof of speeding to secure a conviction, which is crazy and it goes against the 'Innocent until proven guilty' that justice is based on. I am only complaining because the system is so open to corruption when speeding fines are based on a Guard just saying 'He/She was speeding because I said so and I'm the boss'. I think the real weasel here is the guy hiding behind his keyboard, sitting a top his high horse, pontificating to someone like me making an honest query on motor traffic law.
househero wrote: » . It was a radar gun and they chased you down after.
ironclaw wrote: » You know nothing. Please leave and stop embarrassing yourself. You are arguing about technology and law you do not fully understand. The OP has a right to challenge what is an unfair and unjust situation. Someone speeding or not speeding, thats for their own conscience. Buts its wrong in a democracy for a single individual using unverified equipment to be categorically right no matter the situation. There has to be stops and check balances. Its all well and good until someone who is not speeding is convicted of it. CiniO's example being a prime one.
almostover wrote: » Wasn't paying any particular attention to my speed at the time and it was too late to brake as there was a car right behind me. Looked down at the speedometer and was doing 105 kph ish. Thought I might be caught.
almostover wrote: » sitting a top his high horse
The op has no right to admit guilt 'I was travelling at 105' or whatever the hell he said. And then go looking for a way out of it.
almostover wrote: » Is it any wonder people have no respect for the laws/policing in this country when speed measuring equipment does not need to be calibrated in order to secure a conviction?
TheNog wrote: » Who told you the speed gun is not calibrated? It's done every 3 months. If one gets a heavy knock it will not work and go again for re-calibration.
visual wrote: » After you pay your fine accept the points the sharks in insurance will be circling for their pound of flesh too.
Del2005 wrote: » A legal requirement for something not being required to work to secure a conviction makes a mockery of the law it's supposed to enforce.
TheNog wrote: » What????? Of course it works if a driver is stopped for speeding.
Kaiser2000 wrote: » Says who? With no requirement to prove it how do we know that? What about Cinio's story on the last page? You're not going to tell me the Gardai aren't above messing with the system now after the last 6 months are you? If there's actual evidence to support the claim then fair enough, but the idea that convictions can be secured based on the "word" of a Garda - a force which has shown itself to be unfit for purpose - is ridiculous IMO. As far as I recall you're a Garda yourself though aren't you?
TheNog wrote: » Cinio's story if I'm correct says the equipment doesn't have to be calibrated which is untrue. The ultralyte has to be calibrated every 3-4 months to ensure it is working properly. From local arrangements that I see it is done. I know this because I use the speed gun regularly. As for messing with the system well that's for public opinion. I have only commented to set Cinio's take on calibration of the equipment only. Everything else tbh is so far removed from me that I won't comment. You suggest that a word of a Garda should not be sufficient which is not right. If that happens how long do you think the word of a civilian witness in criminal cases without any forensic evidence would stand in court?
almostover wrote: » The simple fact is that if the Gardai are convicting someone for speeding, which they determined using a speed 'gun', then proof of the calibration of that 'gun' should be provided with the fixed charge penalty notice, in my opinion. I am paying the fine and sending off the paperwork by registered post. Have heard horror stories of people receiveing court summons because the Gardai claimed that payments got lost in the post/the payments weren't received so I want proof that I paid it in time. It's interesting that the ordinary citizen must take measures to provide proof of payment/postage of a speeding fine but the Gardai who pursued the conviction of that fined need to provide no proof at all of the crime. Also it is completely ridiculous that there is no online facility to pay these motor traffic offence fines. This is 2014 for flip sake! The payment could be done in 2-3 minutes in front of the computer screen and would save the force thousands of man hours and Euro's in administration costs! The Gardai, along with many state bodies are still about 20-30 years behind the rest of society.
TheNog wrote: » Cinio's story if I'm correct says the equipment doesn't have to be calibrated which is untrue. The ultralyte has to be calibrated every 3-4 months to ensure it is working properly. From local arrangements that I see it is done. I know this because I use the speed gun regularly.
As for messing with the system well that's for public opinion. I have only commented to set Cinio's take on calibration of the equipment only. Everything else tbh is so far removed from me that I won't comment. You suggest that a word of a Garda should not be sufficient which is not right. If that happens how long do you think the word of a civilian witness in criminal cases without any forensic evidence would stand in court?
Kaiser2000 wrote: » No, Cinio's story says that he was pulled in by 2 Gardai who claimed he was doing 20 km/h over the limit and only when challenged on this by him - and breathalysing him and checking his documents, presumably in an attempt to see if they could get him on something else - did they trot out the line that the equipment must be misreading.. which according to you is impossible!
Kaiser2000 wrote: » i'm afraid the well-documented antics of your colleagues and superiors are far more far-reaching than yourself, AGS management and Enda would like. AGS has proven itself to be what many people have already suspected - little more than an Old Boys brigade for the well-connected, a family employment scheme, and a keystone cops outfit rife with corruption and incompetence (evidence money going missing from stations, deleting penalty points for the rich and famous, McBrearty etc etc), not to mention some of the other allegations brought by the Whistleblowers. I won't even get into how these men were supposedly treated by their so-called friends and colleagues (rats indeed!) As a result of the above (which are hardly the isolated actions of a few), it forces us to question the competence and reliability of the organisation as a whole, and it is for THAT reason that the "word" of a Garda cannot and should not be relied on as the sole means of bringing a prosecution. Even the "word" of a cabinet minister and your former Commissioner wasn't enough to stop the truth from being exposed. I'm sure there are decent Gardai who take the job, the responsibility it carries, and the consequences it can have on people's lives seriously... but unfortunately it seems that such individuals are either in the minority, or happy to go along with the current system in order to advance their careers, or just to avoid the treatment received by the Whistleblowers. AGS is so broken at this point that it needs to be completely dismantled and rebuilt from the ground up with effective independent oversight with the power to enforce sanctions on members (at any level) that don't fit the bill. Only when that's done can we talk about taking someone's "word" in a court room - and you can't compare Joe Public's word which is regularly torn apart by counsel anyway, to that of a representative of an organisation which is supposedly beyond reproach (but in reality far from it) but taken as gospel by Judges anyway as is the case now.
TheNog wrote: » Again from my experience the equipment should not misread and has a safety feature that prevents it working if it is beyond normal working parameters.
So to briefly summarise this part of your long winded post and highlight solutions to the problems rather than just the problems themselves - more investment in AGS and establishment of a Policing Oversight Board. The GRA has been asking for these for years. By the way no organisation on this planet is infallible. To think so is just naive.
Kaiser2000 wrote: » So, Cinio is making the whole thing up then is he?
Kaiser2000 wrote: » think throwing more resources at an organisation as broken as AGS would be an even bigger waste of money if the people involved don't change. But I note how you glossed over the points raised all the same - just as AGS and the new minister are busy trying to do at the moment too. Condescension is wasted on me too - it just helps proves my point.
almostover wrote: » househero You'll be glad to know that my fixed charge penalty points notice came in the door this morning for doing 110 km/h in a 100 km/h zone. It seems pointless to challenge it as the success of my challenge will all depend on the judges decision on the day. Is it any wonder people have no respect for the laws/policing in this country when speed measuring equipment does not need to be calibrated in order to secure a conviction?
almostover wrote: » Wasn't paying any particular attention to my speed at the time and it was too late to brake as there was a car right behind me.
Iwannahurl wrote: » Do you think it might help in future if you paid more attention to your speedometer and less attention to whipped-up hysteria about alleged calibration issues? The policing problems I see are insufficient and inconsistent enforcement, eg not enough roads policing and the recent Penalty Points scandal. The alleged calibration problem is a non-issue as far as I am concerned, because it's highly unlikely I will ever need to be done for speeding. In the unlikely event that I am caught for speeding it will be because I am actually driving too fast, not because a Gatso is malfunctioning or the Traffic Corps is corrupt.
almostover wrote: » Let me propose a hypothetical situation to you, it seems that by your post that you never speed. Lets say one morning on your way to work you are travelling on a road whose speed limit is 80kph. You are travelling at 75kph and feel safe that you are travelling at a legal speed. You approach a Garda speed trap, the Gardai at which are using a speed 'gun' that has not been calibrated in a year. Their speed 'gun' is in fact producing a reading 10 kph higher than the actual speed of your car but the calibration of this 'gun' hasn't been checked in a year and the Gardai are under the impression that you're travelling at 85kph in an 80kph zone. You are pulled over, your licence and registration noted and a fixed penatly notice of €80 is issued to you and 2 points are put on your licence. So now, even though you were travelling at a legal speed, you have been convicted of an offence that you did not commit. Best of all, if you challenge the penalty in court, there is no obligation for the Gardai to provide the judge with evidence that their speed 'gun' was working correctly and you are now liable to a €120 fine and 4 penalty points. So please tell me now, in light of the hypothetical situation detailed above, that I am whipping-up hysteria about alleged calibration issues? Their has to be checks in place on Garda equipment and IMO the current system is seriously flawed and perhaps infringing on people rights.
djimi wrote: » Not for 2 points they wont, or even 4-6 sometimes.
