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Lorna Byrne - False Prophet?

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  • #122
    protestant
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3 ✭protestant


    kelly1 wrote: »
    Hello, since you've read her books, does she mention Jesus at all?

    If so, what does she have to say about Him?

    She mentioned Jesus in her book Stairway to Heaven. She said that, she believes Jesus is God. But still she explains there too that why she chose God instead of saying Jesus as the concept of God is understandable everyone.


  • #123
    smelly sock
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,820 ✭✭✭smelly sock


    Good money in that whole " I talk to the spirits" nonsense.

    Sadly enough people out there pay to hear what this woman has to say.

    Dreadful way to bleed vunerlable people.

    If indeed it was the word of the Angels and god and that, should it not be free.


  • #124
    Effects
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,760 ✭✭✭Effects


    Here's Tubridy talking to her and promoting her book on the Later Late like she's the most normal person in the world and not just completely insane or else a fraud looking to profit from vulnerable/gulible people.
    From 52:30 http://www.rte.ie/player/ie/show/10286142/


  • #125
    HermitTalker
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2 ✭HermitTalker


    the OLD TESTAAMENT gives us evidence of fake prophets and other cheats. They still abound abd use modern technology to separate the vulnerable from their money.


  • #126
    Effects
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,760 ✭✭✭Effects


    I have more of a problem with Ryan Tubridy giving them unchallenged air time.


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  • #127
    ryan101
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,671 ✭✭✭ryan101


    Effects wrote: »
    Here's Tubridy talking to her and promoting her book on the Later Late like she's the most normal person in the world and not just completely insane or else a fraud looking to profit from vulnerable/gulible people.
    From 52:30 http://www.rte.ie/player/ie/show/10286142/

    There is a also a third possibility, that she is in some way having visions and describing them as she experiences them.


  • #128
    protestant
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3 ✭protestant


    HermitTalker wrote: »
    the OLD TESTAAMENT gives us evidence of fake prophets and other cheats. They still abound abd use modern technology to separate the vulnerable from their money.

    Yes but OT gives also examples of angelic visitations and of how people where close to God. Everyone do not have to be materialists only earth orientented. Lorna just do not fit into traditional human made church box.


  • #129
    irish_karl
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3 ✭irish_karl


    I think Lorna is a lovely woman.....and I do believe she can communicate with the angels. You should go visit the Mind, Body Spirit exhibition at the RDS, theres loads of these people round there.


  • #130
    mezuzaj
    Closed Accounts Posts: 176 ✭✭mezuzaj


    Lorna Byrne.. I always question people who make a living from exploiting faith. I don't know if she is real or not, but I DO know she makes money from her "gift". Now if she was a people who donated the profits from her books to Charity I might believe her.

    Very skeptical of people who make a profit from Religion.


  • #131
    homer911
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,163 ✭✭✭homer911


    Why are people so obsessed with Angels, Guardian Angels and communicating with them??:confused:

    Yes, Angels do God's bidding and have communicated with men, No, we do not have Guardian Angels - the idea is completely unbiblical and no, we cannot communicate with them unless they appear in bodily form. God calls us to worship and pray to Him and Him alone


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  • #132
    ryan101
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,671 ✭✭✭ryan101


    homer911 wrote: »
    No, we do not have Guardian Angels - the idea is completely unbiblical

    Not unless you cut out the following verses and quite a few others, which would be a very unbiblical thing to do indeed :

    “See that you do not despise one of these little ones. For I tell you that in heaven their angels always see the face of my Father who is in heaven." Matt 18:10

    "The angel of the Lord encamps around those who fear him, and delivers them." - Pslam 34:7

    "Are they not all ministering spirits sent out to serve for the sake of those who are to inherit salvation?" Hebrews 1:14

    "My God sent his angel and shut the lions' mouths, and they have not harmed me, because I was found blameless before him; and also before you, O king, I have done no harm.” Daniel 6:22


  • #133
    homer911
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,163 ✭✭✭homer911


    ryan101 wrote: »
    Not unless you cut out the following verses and quite a few others, which would be a very unbiblical thing to do indeed :

    “See that you do not despise one of these little ones. For I tell you that in heaven their angels always see the face of my Father who is in heaven." Matt 18:10

    "The angel of the Lord encamps around those who fear him, and delivers them." - Pslam 34:7

    "Are they not all ministering spirits sent out to serve for the sake of those who are to inherit salvation?" Hebrews 1:14

    "My God sent his angel and shut the lions' mouths, and they have not harmed me, because I was found blameless before him; and also before you, O king, I have done no harm.” Daniel 6:22

    None of those verses indicate that that we have guardian angels - they do indicate that there are angels and they do God's bidding - show me a Bible verse that says I have a guardian angel personally allocated to me by God..:rolleyes:

    Take a read of http://www.gotquestions.org/guardian-angels.html


  • #134
    ryan101
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,671 ✭✭✭ryan101


    try a
    homer911 wrote: »
    None of those verses indicate that that we have guardian angels - they do indicate that there are angels and they do God's bidding - show me a Bible verse that says I have a guardian angel personally allocated to me by God..:rolleyes:

    Take a read of http://www.gotquestions.org/guardian-angels.html

    I've already done so.
    Show me where scripture says you don't, or never will have any guardian angel allocated to you, as you claim.
    And if God does not allocate them, who does ?

    To try and claim that God allocating a Guardian angel is unbiblical is utterly wrong.

    A guardian is someone who watches over, guides or cares for someone.
    All the verses quoted clearly refer to that.

    "The angel of the Lord encamps around those who fear him, and delivers them." - Pslam 34:7
    "Are they not all ministering spirits sent out to serve for the sake of those who are to inherit salvation?" Hebrews 1:14
    "My God sent his angel and shut the lions' mouths, and they have not harmed me, because I was found blameless before him; and also before you, O king, I have done no harm.” Daniel 6:22

    When or how they are allocated to us, we don't know, or need to know.

    The majority of Christian denominations believe in angles that can perform guardian duties to human beings.

    Christ was quite clear “See that you do not despise one of these little ones. For I tell you that in heaven their angels always see the face of my Father who is in heaven." Not some angels or any angels. I suppose if you ignore what the verses actually say, you could try to come up with complicated alternative interpretations, but they certainly won't be definitive in any way, and will contradict the other passages.

    I really would advise thanking guardian angels for their assistance in your prayers, rather than ignoring them.


  • #135
    homer911
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,163 ✭✭✭homer911


    ryan101 wrote: »
    try a

    I've already done so.
    Show me where scripture says you don't, or never will have any guardian angel allocated to you, as you claim.
    And if God does not allocate them, who does ?

    To try and claim that God allocating a Guardian angel is unbiblical is utterly wrong.

    A guardian is someone who watches over, guides or cares for someone.
    All the verses quoted clearly refer to that.

    "The angel of the Lord encamps around those who fear him, and delivers them." - Pslam 34:7
    "Are they not all ministering spirits sent out to serve for the sake of those who are to inherit salvation?" Hebrews 1:14
    "My God sent his angel and shut the lions' mouths, and they have not harmed me, because I was found blameless before him; and also before you, O king, I have done no harm.” Daniel 6:22

    When or how they are allocated to us, we don't know, or need to know.

    The majority of Christian denominations believe in angles that can perform guardian duties to human beings.

    Christ was quite clear “See that you do not despise one of these little ones. For I tell you that in heaven their angels always see the face of my Father who is in heaven." Not some angels or any angels. I suppose if you ignore what the verses actually say, you could try to come up with complicated alternative interpretations, but they certainly won't be definitive in any way, and will contradict the other passages.

    I really would advise thanking guardian angels for their assistance in your prayers, rather than ignoring them.

    None of these references would say to me that God has appointed one individual angel to be my personal guardian and to watch out for me at all times. Clearly their are references in the Bible to angels being appointed to undertake specific tasks, but no reference to them being appointed to individuals.

    If God is omniscient, why would we need a guardian angel? To quote your own quoted verse, If Matthew 18:10 says that angels always have their faces/attention focused on God, how could they possibly be focusing their attention on us?? Angels are not omniscent, they cant be focused on God and be guardian angels 24x7. Personally I'd rather have an omniscient God looking after me, who knows how many hairs I have on my head, than any created being. This is so akin to "adoration of the saints" I can see how "logical" it may be to some groups of christians, but we need no mediator or intervenor with the Father other than Christ

    Your logic of arguing "show me where scripture says you don't.." is riduclous. I've never heard of theology by ommission. How about I argue that Jesus was an alien from the planet Krypton and then say "show me where scripture says he wasn't" to support my claim! Now that is unbiblical.

    I suggest you do more research, preferably based on the early greek meanings of the words used and the context in which they are used


  • #136
    uck51js9zml2yt
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,268 ✭✭✭✭uck51js9zml2yt


    Whether we have guardian angles or not is superfluous.
    The issues is how we treat them.
    Adoration and worship of them is forbidden in scripture. They are servants of God and created beings sent to minister to those who will inherit salvation.
    If we start worshipping them we are into the realms of idolatry.


  • #137
    ryan101
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,671 ✭✭✭ryan101


    homer911 wrote: »

    Your logic of arguing "show me where scripture says you don't.." is riduclous. I've never heard of theology by ommission. How about I argue that Jesus was an alien from the planet Krypton and then say "show me where scripture says he wasn't" to support my claim! Now that is unbiblical.

    I suggest you do more research, preferably based on the early greek meanings of the words used and the context in which they are used

    But your whole argument hinges on your claim that guardian Angels are unbiblical, yet you have not quoted a single piece of scripture to support your claim, whereas in fact scripture itself, completely contradicts your claim, including the words of Christ himself. I really don't mind what your beliefs are about Angels, but your claims about them being unbiblical are incorrect, to say the least.


  • #138
    ryan101
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,671 ✭✭✭ryan101


    Jace Careful Sharkskin wrote: »
    Whether we have guardian angles or not is superfluous.
    The issues is how we treat them.
    Adoration and worship of them is forbidden in scripture. They are servants of God and created beings sent to minister to those who will inherit salvation.
    If we start worshipping them we are into the realms of idolatry.

    Who is worshipping angels exactly, or who said anything about that ?


  • #139
    homer911
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,163 ✭✭✭homer911


    ryan101 wrote: »
    Who is worshipping angels exactly, or who said anything about that ?

    Ryan was advising thanking guardian angels! How? By praying to them?


  • #140
    ryan101
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,671 ✭✭✭ryan101


    homer911 wrote: »
    Ryan was advising thanking guardian angels! How? By praying to them?

    The word pray in English means to ask, as in "pray tell" , asking someone, or thanking someone is not worshipping them. Worship requires words of worship. Hard to believe these basics have to be explained.


  • #141
    homer911
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,163 ✭✭✭homer911


    ryan101 wrote: »
    But your whole argument hinges on your claim that guardian Angels are unbiblical, yet you have not quoted a single piece of scripture to support your claim, whereas in fact scripture itself, completely contradicts your claim, including the words of Christ himself. I really don't mind what your beliefs are about Angels, but your claims about them being unbiblical are incorrect, to say the least.

    If there is nothing in the bible to support the idea of guardian angels, it doesn't automatically follow that there is something in the bible denying guardian angels. Have you heard of eisegesis? The idea needs to be explored in the context of what we know from the bible, not what we guess at, or read into the text..


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  • #142
    ryan101
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,671 ✭✭✭ryan101


    homer911 wrote: »
    If there is nothing in the bible to support the idea of guardian angels, it doesn't automatically follow that there is something in the bible denying guardian angels. Have you heard of eisegesis? The idea needs to be explored in the context of what we know from the bible, not what we guess at, or read into the text..

    No guessing or reading into the text is required whatsoever.
    Again, given that quite a few passages supporting guardian angels, including Christ's own words, have already been provided, you've entirely failed at the first hurdle to prove your claim that there is nothing in the bible to support the idea of Guardian angels.


  • #143
    homer911
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,163 ✭✭✭homer911


    ryan101 wrote: »
    No guessing or reading into the text is required whatsoever.
    Again, given that quite a few passages supporting guardian angels, including Christ's own words, have already been provided, you've entirely failed at the first hurdle to prove your claim that there is nothing in the bible to support the idea of Guardian angels.

    If you dismiss my responses I can see that we are going to have to agree to disagree


  • #144
    homer911
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,163 ✭✭✭homer911


    ryan101 wrote: »
    The word pray in English means to ask, as in "pray tell" , asking someone, or thanking someone is not worshipping them. Worship requires words of worship. Hard to believe these basics have to be explained.

    Again we are going to have to agree to disagree. There is nothing in the bible to suggest angels or saints can hear our prayers, nor would they need to..

    And for your information, prayer is a form of worship just as we often thank God in songs of praise


  • #145
    ryan101
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,671 ✭✭✭ryan101


    homer911 wrote: »
    If you dismiss my responses I can see that we are going to have to agree to disagree

    If you keep ignoring the scripture passages that say so, then I guess so.
    homer911 wrote: »
    Again we are going to have to agree to disagree.

    I don't mind agreeing to disagree, as faith in Christ is of far more importance, and I don't doubt your sincere faith at all. As Christ said, he who is not against the apostles is for them.
    homer911 wrote: »
    There is nothing in the bible to suggest angels or saints can hear our prayers, nor would they need to..

    You don't have to ask anyone to pray for you, but people do.

    Given the passages below, we'll have to agree to disagree about it not being in scripture.

    "Bless the LORD, O you his angels,
    you mighty ones who do his word,
    obeying the voice of his word!" - Psalm 103:20

    "[An] angel came and stood at the altar [in heaven] with a golden censer; and he was given much incense to mingle with the prayers of all the saints upon the golden altar before the throne; and the smoke of the incense rose with the prayers of the saints from the hand of the angel before God" (Rev. 8:3-4).

    "So now, when you and Sarah prayed, it was I who brought and read the record of your prayer before the glory of the Lord, and likewise whenever you buried the dead. And that time when you did not hesitate to get up and leave your dinner to go and bury the dead, I was sent to you to test you. And at the same time God sent me to heal you and Sarah your daughter-in-law. I am Raphael, one of the seven angels who stand ready and enter before the glory of the Lord." - Tobit 12:12-15


  • #146
    homer911
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,163 ✭✭✭homer911


    ryan101 wrote: »
    Given the passages below, we'll have to agree to disagree about it not being in scripture.

    "Bless the LORD, O you his angels,
    you mighty ones who do his word,
    obeying the voice of his word!" - Psalm 103:20

    "[An] angel came and stood at the altar [in heaven] with a golden censer; and he was given much incense to mingle with the prayers of all the saints upon the golden altar before the throne; and the smoke of the incense rose with the prayers of the saints from the hand of the angel before God" (Rev. 8:3-4).

    "So now, when you and Sarah prayed, it was I who brought and read the record of your prayer before the glory of the Lord, and likewise whenever you buried the dead. And that time when you did not hesitate to get up and leave your dinner to go and bury the dead, I was sent to you to test you. And at the same time God sent me to heal you and Sarah your daughter-in-law. I am Raphael, one of the seven angels who stand ready and enter before the glory of the Lord." - Tobit 12:12-15

    You are doing it again. There is nothing in these verses to suport the claim for guardian angels. There are angels, they serve attendance on God and do his bidding (they therefore can't be dancing attendance on us all the time).

    and finally, if there are guardian angels, they cant be said to be doing a very good job, or there would be no such thing as accidents or suicides


  • #147
    ryan101
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,671 ✭✭✭ryan101


    homer911 wrote: »
    You are doing it again. There is nothing in these verses to suport the claim for guardian angels.

    It was addressed to your further claim :
    homer911 wrote: »
    There is nothing in the bible to suggest angels or saints can hear our prayers, nor would they need to..
    homer911 wrote: »
    There are angels, they serve attendance on God and do his bidding (they therefore can't be dancing attendance on us all the time).

    How do you know what God's bidding is, and how do you know how many angels , who are eternal spirits, were created ?
    homer911 wrote: »
    and finally, if there are guardian angels, they cant be said to be doing a very good job, or there would be no such thing as accidents or suicides

    You could argue exactly the same about God, as atheists often do.


  • #148
    Raphael Heals
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1 ✭Raphael Heals


    This woman is no false prophet. Christians have been so deluded that they think Jesus is like the x-factor winner and we must only worship him. I love Jesus with as much of heart as is possible but I also love the archangels and angels and prophets and saints and God does not judge between them. The New Testament most follow is in many parts manipulated and false. The following is a link to the true teaching of Jesus and in it he advocates praying to The angels of air, water, sun and earth and also to The Earth Mother not only The Heavenly father. Also reminds us that "thou shalt not kill" means thou shalt not eat the flesh of animals.... Stop following dead scripture and find your own truth...

    Search : Essenes Gospel of Peace of Jesus Christ


  • #149
    kelly1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,026 ✭✭✭kelly1


    ^ *Facepalm*


  • #150
    bestdj
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1 ✭bestdj


    Holy Crap, and I mean the holy part. Really, how do people really blindly believe all this religious crap? Just because you were brought up that way? Just because all your life people were pumping the crap into you? Unfortunately there is no way to convince a religious person that religion is the biggest brainwash of all time. Because it is just that, a brainwash. Not sure why I have clarity when it comes to religion, guess I was just born that way. I am agnostic, atheists say that is crap, a fence sitter. But I say they are just as bad as religious, brainwashed, not open to the possibilities. Let's face it, we don't know crap. We are like single cell creatures when it comes to figuring out where we came from. I like to think there is something we are missing and that maybe some day it will become clear.


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  • #151
    Delirium
    Moderators Posts: 52,023 ✭✭✭✭Delirium


    bestdj wrote: »
    Holy Crap, and I mean the holy part. Really, how do people really blindly believe all this religious crap? Just because you were brought up that way? Just because all your life people were pumping the crap into you? Unfortunately there is no way to convince a religious person that religion is the biggest brainwash of all time. Because it is just that, a brainwash. Not sure why I have clarity when it comes to religion, guess I was just born that way. I am agnostic, atheists say that is crap, a fence sitter. But I say they are just as bad as religious, brainwashed, not open to the possibilities. Let's face it, we don't know crap. We are like single cell creatures when it comes to figuring out where we came from. I like to think there is something we are missing and that maybe some day it will become clear.

    MOD NOTE

    Please have a read of the Charter to get up to speed on what is expected of posters on this forum.

    Referring to peoples beliefs as 'crap' or 'brainwashing' is not acceptable.

    Please modify your posting to reflect that.

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