I need feminism because...

iwantmydinner · 24-05-2014 11:12PM

YumCha wrote: »

Trigger warning for violence against women and some pretty disturbing misogyny...

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/05/24/1301671/-Elliot-Roger-Gunman-in-California-Mass-Shooting-was-influenced-by-the-Men-s-Rights-Movement#

I was going to try and sum it up, but it's all too depressing - right down to the reddit thread where they talk in detail about his video manifesto posted the evening before without bothering to report it.

If his tirade had been against the US government I'm willing to bet the authorities would have been notified quicksmart, but this kind of speech against women has been sadly, woefully normalised.

Oh god

25-05-2014 11:34AM

YumCha wrote: »

Trigger warning for violence against women and some pretty disturbing misogyny...

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/05/24/1301671/-Elliot-Roger-Gunman-in-California-Mass-Shooting-was-influenced-by-the-Men-s-Rights-Movement#

I was going to try and sum it up, but it's all too depressing - right down to the reddit thread where they talk in detail about his video manifesto posted the evening before without bothering to report it.

If his tirade had been against the US government I'm willing to bet the authorities would have been notified quicksmart, but this kind of speech against women has been sadly, woefully normalised.

You don't have to look too far to find the same views expressed 'lite', sadly.

How very sad, not just for his victims - although overwhelmingly more so, but also that a disillusioned and apparently unstable young guy with an identity problem, gained what he thought was validation and purpose from hatred disguised as reason.

When he dehumanised the women he interacted with, he dehumanised himself by reducing himself to a single-aspect human, an outcome positively promoted by some of the sites he subscribed to.

Those poor girls and their families.

iwantmydinner · 25-05-2014 06:27PM

Because the #yesallwomen campaign is some of the most depressing reading I have ever encountered, because 1. all those horrific experiences and 2. the arseholes trying to derail it

rainbow kirby · 28-05-2014 08:32AM

Because apparently an article about a new female TD taking her seat in the Dail is worthy of a lot of quotes from men, and not a word from the woman herself.

iwantmydinner · 28-05-2014 08:41AM

rainbow kirby wrote: »

Because apparently an article about a new female TD taking her seat in the Dail is worthy of a lot of quotes from men, and not a word from the woman herself.

Oh FFS

28-05-2014 01:12PM

Link on my FB

whenwomenrefuse.tumblr.com

LenaClaire · 28-05-2014 02:05PM

bluewolf wrote: »

Link on my FB

whenwomenrefuse.tumblr.com

And the sad fact that there are over 80 entries and the page is only 5 days old

Pepe LeFrits · 28-05-2014 03:41PM

rainbow kirby wrote: »

Because apparently an article about a new female TD taking her seat in the Dail is worthy of a lot of quotes from men, and not a word from the woman herself.

Indeed, also the IT published two more articles from Marie O'Halloran, betraying her sexist tendencies by only quoting the male leaders of the rival parties:

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/oireachtas/new-dublin-west-td-ruth-coppinger-welcomed-to-the-d%C3%A1il-1.1811117

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/oireachtas/ruth-coppinger-td-welcomed-to-d%C3%A1il-1.1811802

Precious flower · 28-05-2014 08:49PM

Focusing on one of her books for my FYP. She seems like a brilliant woman!:) Wish people in the audience wouldn't laugh. She's making serious points, I don't find what she's saying funny! They seem to laugh a weird points, but it's a brilliant video!

Semele · 28-05-2014 09:49PM

Precious flower wrote: »

Focusing on one of her books for my FYP. She seems like a brilliant woman!:) Wish people in the audience wouldn't laugh. She's making serious points, I don't find what she's saying funny! They seem to laugh a weird points, but it's a brilliant video!

She's amazing! Thanks for posting the video- I'm going to share it with some people I know would love it too. I don't see what the issue with people laughing is though, although I may of course be missing something that you picked up on..? To me her delivery style was very humorous and people were just responding to that- a lot of the laughter seemed to be in recognition of the obvious truths that she pointed out in a very gentle way.

TBH I don think that serious issues and humour/lightheartedness are mutually exclusive, quite the opposite if anything. Although I consider myself 100% a feminist I find that a lot of academic feminism, particularly of the US variety, has a puritanical dourness and comes across as very joyless. In the talk she mentions how dull she found the classic feminist texts, and I imagine this is true for a lot of people, who are less inclined to engage with feminism as a result. This isn't just a feminist issue either- I find it to be true of a lot of "serious" topics! Just think how much more engaged more people would be if mainstream feminism, or politics, or social justice, or whatever, were promoted in such an accessible, personal and celebratory way!

Precious flower · 28-05-2014 11:39PM

Semele wrote: »

She's amazing! Thanks for posting the video- I'm going to share it with some people I know would love it too. I don't see what the issue with people laughing is though, although I may of course be missing something that you picked up on..? To me her delivery style was very humorous and people were just responding to that- a lot of the laughter seemed to be in recognition of the obvious truths that she pointed out in a very gentle way.

TBH I don think that serious issues and humour/lightheartedness are mutually exclusive, quite the opposite if anything. Although I consider myself 100% a feminist I find that a lot of academic feminism, particularly of the US variety, has a puritanical dourness and comes across as very joyless. In the talk she mentions how dull she found the classic feminist texts, and I imagine this is true for a lot of people, who are less inclined to engage with feminism as a result. This isn't just a feminist issue either- I find it to be true of a lot of "serious" topics! Just think how much more engaged more people would be if mainstream feminism, or politics, or social justice, or whatever, were promoted in such an accessible, personal and celebratory way!

Oh, I didn't mean that humour and serious issues can't mix, even though I see in my post I made myself sound like that. Some of the things they were laughing at were meant to be humourous but I just felt they seemed to laugh at serious points as well, issues that she wasn't inserting humour but was just making a point.
I don't know, I just felt they were sometimes laughing at awkward times or times that in my opinion did seems like times to laugh! Anyway, I loved the speech, especially the part about cooking and household tasks.:)

paperclip2 · 30-05-2014 10:51AM

Horrific doesn't cover it

http://www.independent.ie/world-news/asia-pacific/three-arrested-after-teen-sisters-gangraped-and-hanged-in-india-30316167.html

Detectives in northern India have revealed that they have arrested three men, including two police officers, suspected of gang-raping and killing two teenage sisters before hanging their bodies from a mango tree, sparking renewed public outrage over sexual violence in the country.
Villagers found the girls' bodies hanging from the tree on Wednesday morning, hours after they disappeared from fields near their home in Katra village in Uttar Pradesh state, police superintendent Atul Saxena said.
The girls, who were 14 and 15, had gone into the fields because there was no toilet in their home.
Hundreds of angry villagers spent the rest of Wednesday in silent protest over alleged police inaction in the case.
Indian TV channels showed video of the villagers sitting under the girls' bodies as they swung in the wind, preventing authorities from taking them down from the tree until the suspects were arrested.
Post-mortems confirmed the girls had been gang-raped and strangled before being hung, Saxena said.
The villagers accused the chief of the local police station of ignoring a complaint made by the girls' father on Tuesday night that the girls were missing.
The station chief has since been suspended.
The family belongs to the Dalit community, also called "untouchables" and considered the lowest rung in India's age-old caste system.
India tightened its anti-rape laws last year, making gang rape punishable by the death penalty. The new laws came after nationwide protests over the fatal gang rape of a 23-year-old woman on a moving bus in New Delhi that triggered nationwide protests.
Records show a rape is committed every 22 minutes in India, a nation of 1.2 billion people.
Activists say that number is low because of an entrenched culture of tolerance for sexual violence, which leads many cases to go unreported.
Women are often pressed by family or police to stay quiet about sexual assault, experts say, and those who do report cases are often subjected to public ridicule or social stigma.
Last month, the head of Uttar Pradesh state's governing party told an election rally that the party was opposed to the law calling for gang rapists to be executed.
"Boys will be boys," Mulayam Singh Yadav said. "They make mistakes."

confusticated · 31-05-2014 04:37PM

Pretty good summary of a lot of this thread I thought:

http://www.upworthy.com/51-pretty-shocking-facts-that-make-things-harder-for-every-woman-you-have-ever-met?c=mrp1

Particularly liked the bit where she said that everything she was saying would be taken more seriously - and then a man appears and says "if the words were coming out of my mouth"!

Amigone · 10-06-2014 03:23PM

Hi

I'm not sure if this is the right place to put this out there, but are there many informal women's studies groups/discussion groups that like-minded people can attend to just talk about all this stuff?!

I'm new to feminism (can you be new to it as a 29 year old woman - I hope so!) and I feel really strongly about wanting to engage with people F2F and have these discussions.

Thanks for any advice!

Scarinae · 10-06-2014 05:02PM

Rape and sexual assault on US college campuses has been in the news quite a bit recently - and this opinion column in the Washington Post says that "when [colleges] make victimhood a coveted status that confers privileges, victims proliferate"

Oh of course, the privileges of sexual assault :rolleyes:

Morag · 10-06-2014 05:48PM

http://www.polygon.com/2014/6/10/5797132/e3-2014-women-at-e3-violence-e3-2014

There were more severed heads at E3 then women presenters.

Ambersky · 10-06-2014 07:13PM

I need feminism because without it drawing attention to and fighting the shaming, the legal and social controls on women and our reproductive abilities there would be far more women and children in those mother and baby homes, or out on the street or dead.

iwantmydinner · 10-06-2014 07:14PM

Scarinae wrote: »

Rape and sexual assault on US college campuses has been in the news quite a bit recently - and this opinion column in the Washington Post says that "when [colleges] make victimhood a coveted status that confers privileges, victims proliferate"

Oh of course, the privileges of sexual assault :rolleyes:

Saw references to that all day. I am so NOT clicking through to it though. F*ck the Washington Post for printing that.

Morag · 11-06-2014 01:24PM

http://www.abortionrightscampaign.ie/2014/06/11/that-was-then-this-is-now/

Because we still shame women.

sunshine and showers · 11-06-2014 01:27PM

Because nobody talks about the fathers of the babies in the Mother and Children homes.

nicowa · 12-06-2014 06:45AM

sunshine and showers wrote: »

Because nobody talks about the fathers of the babies in the Mother and Children homes.

There's currently a discussion going on in the Gentlemans Lounge if that helps.

Amirani · 12-06-2014 09:37AM

I think anyone placing blame on the mothers or fathers in this situation are completely out of order. An unplanned pregnancy created two choices for the parents - permanent marriage (divorce didn't exist) despite not loving each other or else placement in a "care" home. That's if the potential parents even had this sort of choice, in many cases steps would be put in motion before the mother could even inform the father of the pregnancy.

Blame must be placed firmly with either the church, the State or the grandparents (either side) of the unplanned child. Blaming young people for having sex is wrong, it's what young people do.

Morag · 12-06-2014 02:08PM

Diego Simeone wrote: »

I think anyone placing blame on the mothers or fathers in this situation are completely out of order. An unplanned pregnancy created two choices for the parents - permanent marriage (divorce didn't exist) despite not loving each other or else placement in a "care" home. That's if the potential parents even had this sort of choice, in many cases steps would be put in motion before the mother could even inform the father of the pregnancy.

Blame must be placed firmly with either the church, the State or the grandparents (either side) of the unplanned child. Blaming young people for having sex is wrong, it's what young people do.

There were other option, go see Mamie Cadden if you had the money and get an illegal abortion.
Go to the UK and have the baby there, leave it to be adopted and come home.
Go to the Uk and have the baby and try start a new lilfe over there with the child.
Hide the pregnancy and have your mother pretend that her grand child was her child when it arrived.

eviltwin · 12-06-2014 03:11PM

Because 3500 women had to travel to the UK for abortions last year :mad:

sunshine and showers · 12-06-2014 10:20PM

Diego Simeone wrote: »

I think anyone placing blame on the mothers or fathers in this situation are completely out of order. An unplanned pregnancy created two choices for the parents - permanent marriage (divorce didn't exist) despite not loving each other or else placement in a "care" home. That's if the potential parents even had this sort of choice, in many cases steps would be put in motion before the mother could even inform the father of the pregnancy.

Blame must be placed firmly with either the church, the State or the grandparents (either side) of the unplanned child. Blaming young people for having sex is wrong, it's what young people do.

It's not about blame, it's avoid acknowledging the fact that none of those women got pregnant alone, but they were the only ones punished.

strobe · 13-06-2014 07:14AM

sunshine and showers wrote: »

It's not about blame, it's avoid acknowledging the fact that none of those women got pregnant alone, but they were the only ones punished.

Having your child and your girlfriend locked away from you in a home, never even being able to lay eyes on your child, isn't punishment? Sounds pretty punishy to me...

Dolbert · 13-06-2014 08:26AM

My great-grandmother's rapists were never even named, let alone punished. She was left to die in one of those homes. The poster who likened these events to honour crimes wasn't wrong.

Das Kitty · 13-06-2014 08:31AM

strobe wrote: »

Having your child and your girlfriend locked away from you in a home, never even being able to lay eyes on your child, isn't punishment? Sounds pretty punishy to me...

That situation would be rare, as you would have married your girlfriend rather than letting her go into a home.

Most of the women were either raped or abandoned by their babies' fathers.

Neyite · 13-06-2014 09:01AM

Das Kitty wrote: »

That situation would be rare, as you would have married your girlfriend rather than letting her go into a home.

Most of the women were either raped or abandoned by their babies' fathers.

True, the lucky ones were the ones who were permitted to marry their boyfriend. Unless you were from a good family and she wasnt, say, the son of a farmer and a labourers daughter, or you were different religions, or either of you had been divorced.

If you had a son who you hoped would marry well, all you had to do was visit the priest about his being led astray by some wan from the village 'trapping' him, and voila! problem solved. :rolleyes:

Even women who managed to get the boat, go to England and try to find somewhere there to have their babies usually turned up at a catholic church, who basically brought them back to Ireland under escort to a home. God forbid that the child might be adopted by a protestant. :rolleyes:

I mean, you are talking about a system devised by a man who was utterly convinced that men could not control their urges around women, that women were to blame for tempting them. A man who banned tampons in 1944 for fear woman would be aroused when using them. As we do yanno - look at the fun wimmin have on our period on the tampax adverts like.

strobe · 13-06-2014 09:03AM

Das Kitty wrote: »

That situation would be rare

What's the figure, out of curiosity? Bout 2.25%, or?

I need feminism because...

Comments