Convicted child killer canvassing for sinn fein[Mod warning-First Post]

Banjo String · 23-05-2014 12:11PM

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

Thought as much

Best rebuttal ever.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TAryFIuRxmQ

Happyman42 · 23-05-2014 12:13PM

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Yeah, because you care about facts don't you?

Facts according to an phoblacht that is.

The facts as have been shown over and over again in this thread alone, are that people are selective about those that they will allow to be democrats.
Despite their histories and behaviour (continued British international terrorism in pursuit of it's aims) some are accorded the right to govern while others are vilified and excluded.
Hypocrisy?

Reformed Character · 23-05-2014 12:13PM

Dan_Solo wrote: »

I'm not going to defend paramilitaries attacking purely civilian targets specifically though. I don't agree with them coming under the GFA.

So the LeMon bomber should not have come under the GFA.(Purely civilian target)
Or the Enniskillen Bombers? (Purely civilian target)
How about the killers of the boys in Warrington?(Purely civilian target).
I can't see how anyone can argue that one group should benefit from the terms of the GFA.
I voted in favour of it, knowing that all those guilty of crimes would benefit from it, I didn't like it but considered it a price worth paying.

Kevhog1988 · 23-05-2014 12:19PM

upyores wrote: »

So the LeMon bomber should not have come under the GFA.(Purely civilian target)
Or the Enniskillen Bombers? (Purely civilian target)
How about the killers of the boys in Warrington?(Purely civilian target).
I can't see how anyone can argue that one group should benefit from the terms of the GFA.
I voted in favour of it, knowing that all those guilty of crimes would benefit from it, I didn't like it but considered it a price worth paying.

I actually agree… It should be fair to both sides but getting back to the thread if a man was released because of the GFA which in essence recognises the fact that his time in prison was of a political nature why should he not be allowed to embrace the fact that republicanism has now moved to seek the realisation of there aims in a peaceful manor. It is now by ballot box and not by armelite that they seek to achieve a united ireland. Therefore i can see no reason why he would not be allowed. It is generally a well known fact that Martin McGuinness is a former chief of staff of the provisional IRA. He has completely embraced the GFA and peace process. Why should others be denied that privilege?

FTA69 · 23-05-2014 12:19PM

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Oil, oil pipelines, err lizard illuminati something or other.

Regardless of that though he's right. The British Army have very recently been to the forefront of conflicts that led to massive civilian life loss.

Kevhog1988 · 23-05-2014 12:22PM

FTA69 wrote: »

Regardless of that though he's right. The British Army have very recently been to the forefront of conflicts that led to massive civilian life loss.

There great empire is founded on the suffering of smaller nations.

Fratton Fred · 23-05-2014 12:23PM

Happyman42 wrote: »

The facts as have been shown over and over again in this thread alone, are that people are selective about those that they will allow to be democrats.
Despite their histories and behaviour (continued British international terrorism in pursuit of it's aims) some are accorded the right to govern while others are vilified and excluded.
Hypocrisy?

Do you actually believe the ****e you come out with, or is it just for the benefit of boards?

Grayson · 23-05-2014 12:24PM

kingchess wrote: »

your grandfather must have lived a very long life:D

He lived through the great typo terror of 1(21

Fratton Fred · 23-05-2014 12:24PM

FTA69 wrote: »

Regardless of that though he's right. The British Army have very recently been to the forefront of conflicts that led to massive civilian life loss.

Two conflicts, one of which was fully supported by the Irish government.

Your point?

Nodin · 23-05-2014 12:26PM

bumper234 wrote: »

You're right, my apologies i had forgotten all of the details, McMahon was arrested 70 miles away after planting the bomb the night before. It was left to another (un-named) brave volunteer to watch those children board the boat and callously push the button to detonate the device blowing them to bits.

You never knew the details, you just jumped in feet first. Not for the first time either.

FTA69 · 23-05-2014 12:29PM

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Two conflicts, one of which was fully supported by the Irish government.

Your point?

Am I supposed to support something because of Fianna Fáil now or something?

My point is that the British Army is responsible for loads of civilian deaths in Afghanistan and Iraq; with them being up to their b*llocks in torture and mayhem in both conflicts.

Thus a proud ex-solider pontificating about an ex-IRA man in Ireland is thus a massive hypocrite.

Grayson · 23-05-2014 12:32PM

upyores wrote: »

So the LeMon bomber should not have come under the GFA.(Purely civilian target)
Or the Enniskillen Bombers? (Purely civilian target)
How about the killers of the boys in Warrington?(Purely civilian target).
I can't see how anyone can argue that one group should benefit from the terms of the GFA.
I voted in favour of it, knowing that all those guilty of crimes would benefit from it, I didn't like it but considered it a price worth paying.

there's a difference between supporting the peace process and supporting killers.

I don't think it involves cognitive dissonance when you support amnesties and yet at the same time don't want the killers anywhere near you. Or judge people who associate with them.

Fratton Fred · 23-05-2014 12:34PM

FTA69 wrote: »

Am I supposed to support something because of Fianna Fáil now or something?

My point is that the British Army is responsible for loads of civilian deaths in Afghanistan and Iraq; with them being up to their b*llocks in torture and mayhem in both conflicts.

Thus a proud ex-solider pontificating about an ex-IRA man in Ireland is thus a massive hypocrite.

Yet supporters of the PIRA are good patriots for supporting torture, mayhem and massive loss of civilian in support of their aims.

There's plenty of hypocrite knocking around to be honest.

Kevhog1988 · 23-05-2014 12:38PM

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Yet supporters of the PIRA are good patriots for supporting torture, mayhem and massive loss of civilian in support of their aims.

There's plenty of hypocrite knocking around to be honest.

The PIRA's targets were always either enforcers & symbols of british occupation or economic targets aiming to cause harm to the british economy and hence the british war fund.

Fratton Fred · 23-05-2014 12:40PM

theemigrant wrote: »

The PIRA's targets were always either enforcers & symbols of british occupation or economic targets aiming to cause harm to the british economy and hence the british war fund.

Oh please, that arguement is so stupid it isn't worth getting in to.

FTA69 · 23-05-2014 12:46PM

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Yet supporters of the PIRA are good patriots for supporting torture, mayhem and massive loss of civilian in support of their aims.

There's plenty of hypocrite knocking around to be honest.

I think the IRA were right. We've been having this argument for years so probably no point in getting into it again.

The contention here though, is whether ex-combatants now in this day and age should be dragged up and used as a stick with which to beat certain organisations etc. The IRA has apologised for all civilian causalities and doesn't even exist anymore in any real sense. I don't begrudge ex Brits or Loyalists the right to engage in politics so I can't see how the McMahon issue is some sort of massive deal to be honest.

He's being singled out from a pool of literally thousands of people.

Happyman42 · 23-05-2014 12:48PM

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Do you actually believe the ****e you come out with, or is it just for the benefit of boards?

That Churchill should have been tried for war crimes for his terror bombing?
I absolutely do.

The holocaust unleashed on Dresden had no strategic or tactical advantage whatsoever for the Americans or the British. Dresden was one of the most beautiful cities in Germany, dubbed the "Florence of the Elbe" because of its world-renowned collection of Baroque architecture. It was known as a showplace of culture. It had no military bases, no major communication centers or heavy industry. It had no air defense. In the last months of the war, it was known as "Die Lazarettstadt" - it had been declared a hospital town. It was also known as the "Fluechtlingsstadt" - the City of the Refugees.

http://www.rense.com/general85/ddes.htm

It should be noted too that the Black and Tans came about as a result of Churchill's suggestion when he was Secretary Of State for War in 1920. Lovely chap.

Fratton Fred · 23-05-2014 12:49PM

Because it sells newspapers.

Kevhog1988 · 23-05-2014 12:50PM

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Oh please, that arguement is so stupid it isn't worth getting in to.

im afraid i dont agree… Soldiers, prison officers, ruc officers and members of the british establishment. (maggie thatcher was the main aim for a long time)

Fratton Fred · 23-05-2014 12:57PM

theemigrant wrote: »

im afraid i dont agree… Soldiers, prison officers, ruc officers and members of the british establishment. (maggie thatcher was the main aim for a long time)

Hotels, restaurants, shopping centres, all entirely civilian establishments.

Kevhog1988 · 23-05-2014 01:01PM

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Hotels, restaurants, shopping centres, all entirely civilian establishments.

With an economic effect…. no taxes paid after the place is unusable. Thus was the reason they phoned in warnings before each blast,

Wishiwasa Littlebitaller · 23-05-2014 01:03PM

bumper234 wrote: »

What happened on Bloody Sunday was outright murder but the shootings were down to the soldiers and their commanders on the spot not some suit in parliment buildings.

Like I said, you're naive.

It's not just Bloody Sunday. The British security forces purposefully murdered many Irish citizens on many different occasions. Their shoot-to-kill policy responsible for many. British intelligence also without question also had a role in the four Dublin-Monaghan car bombongs, where 33 people died (34 if you count an almost full term unborn child), one of which was just 4 years old. Hundreds were also injured.

Two books (1, 2) for Sir.

bumper234 · 23-05-2014 01:05PM

FTA69 wrote: »

Well you've defended the British Army a number of times and have stated above that you have no bother with ex-soldiers going into politics. This despite the fact that the British Army has a record of killing children that far supersedes that of the IRA.

Also, can you drop the Jamie Bulger stuff? It's a silly analogy.

Would you have any problem with a politician using an ex-helicopter gunship pilot to canvass? What about someone involved in aerial bombardment in Iraq?

At the end of the day your position boils down to:

IRA= evil terrorists
British Army = gallant soliders.

And to be honest that sort of black and white nonsense applied to ex-combatants in Ireland is always going to sound hollow. Especially considering you're an ex-combatant yourself.

If it was shown that the pilot had deliberately targeted children or had blown up a car/building/boat where he knew there were children then yes i would have an issue with that.

Here's the thing.....not every ex BA soldier should be stopped from going into politics simply because they served in an army.

Fratton Fred · 23-05-2014 01:05PM

theemigrant wrote: »

With an economic effect…. no taxes paid after the place is unusable. Thus was the reason they phoned in warnings before each blast,

Answer me this then, a question that none of your fellow apologists have been able to answer.

Why was Warrington bombed on a Saturday lunchtime?
Why were the Birmingham pubs and the La Mon restaurant bombed on a Friday night?

The same question could be asked of Manchester, Harrods, Guildford and many more.

Kevhog1988 · 23-05-2014 01:09PM

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Answer me this then, a question that none of your fellow apologists have been able to answer.

Why was Warrington bombed on a Saturday lunchtime?
Why were the Birmingham pubs and the La Mon restaurant bombed on a Friday night?

The same question could be asked of Manchester, Harrods, Guildford and many more.

Can you define apologist please??

I couldn't comment on the timing…. The only one i remember clearly is Manchester… i was in the Arndale the day before shopping….. I was quite young at the time

kingchess · 23-05-2014 01:10PM

I suppose the ira was not a typical army in the traditional sense,maybe more like the french resistance in ww2 fighting against the vichy government and the Germans.or maybe more like irgun in Israel which included Menachem Begin and were called terrorists by the British??:rolleyes:

Happyman42 · 23-05-2014 01:11PM

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Answer me this then, a question that none of your fellow apologists have been able to answer.

Why was Warrington bombed on a Saturday lunchtime?
Why were the Birmingham pubs and the La Mon restaurant bombed on a Friday night?

The same question could be asked of Manchester, Harrods, Guildford and many more.

As part of a campaign of terror. Same design as carpet bombing, ala Colonge and Dresden.

Kevhog1988 · 23-05-2014 01:12PM

kingchess wrote: »

I suppose the ira was not a typical army in the traditional sense,maybe more like the french resistance in ww2 fighting against the vichy government and the Germans.or maybe more like irgun in Israel which included Menachem Begin and were called terrorists by the British??:rolleyes:

I suppose the words of the song Joe mcDonnel are particularly apt

"you dare to call me a terrorist as you look down your gun"

bumper234 · 23-05-2014 01:15PM

Wishiwasa Littlebitaller wrote: »

Like I said, you're naive.

It's not just Bloody Sunday. The British security forces purposefully murdered many Irish citizens on many different occasions. Their shoot-to-kill policy responsible for many. British intelligence also without question also had a role in the four Dublin-Monaghan car bombongs, where 33 people died (34 if you count an almost full term unborn child), one of which was just 4 years old. Hundreds were also injured.

Two books (1, 2) for Sir.

Oh here we go again

It's ok to claim they were at war but as soon as some IRA scumbag (usually hiding ready to ambush) was killed they cried shoot to kill and not fair.

Would also love to see your evidence for that seeing as there is no question about their role.

Phoebas · 23-05-2014 01:15PM

theemigrant wrote: »

With an economic effect…. no taxes paid after the place is unusable.

A dead child can't grow up and pay taxes in adulthood ... economic target!

Convicted child killer canvassing for sinn fein[Mod warning-First Post]

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