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Comments

  • #32
    Bruno26
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 979 ✭✭✭Bruno26


    Alf Veedersane wrote: »
    What do you class as high carb?

    Eating over 200 grams a day. Anything where wheat is main ingredient. All bread, Pasta, noodles , rice to a lesser extent.
    Most processed foods and drinks. Soft drinks, alcohol, juices and smoothies made with mostly fruit over veg.
    Most fruit except berries. Some starchy veg. Many low fat items.


  • #33
    ford2600
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,457 ✭✭✭ford2600


    Alf Veedersane wrote: »
    So if someone is operating off a 400 kcal deficit, based on an accurate TDEE, they won't lose fat?

    In a non-extreme example.


    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=89455957&postcount=37


  • #34
    Blacktie.
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,903 ✭✭✭Blacktie.


    ford2600 wrote: »
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=89455957&postcount=37

    400 calories is hardly considered too low.

    I disagree with this whole starvation mode thing as well. It's a myth that's taking its time to die.


  • #35
    Alf Veedersane
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,912 ✭✭✭✭Alf Veedersane


    ford2600 wrote: »
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=89455957&postcount=37

    Is your point that 400 kcals below your TDEE is extremely low to the point that it's too close to or below your BMR?

    Really?


  • #36
    Mellor
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,226 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    Bruno26 wrote: »
    It's near impossible to overeat fat when eating the right foods- therefore one will
    find it near impossible to get fat eating this way.
    Your definition of the right foods must be incredibly boring.

    I eat butter, cream, all cuts of meat, nuts and nut butters, amount other stuff like veg. I think these are perfectly healthy but I'm also aware of the energy content. If I'm not careful with my portion size I won't be on weight in a month.
    I know I never said I was on a ketogenic diet - I'm not- I don't eat enough fat.
    Not quite. You are it not keto because you are, ironically, eating too many carbs. If you cut carbs to 50g or less you'll be in ketosis. And fat would rise to 50-60% of consumption.
    I thought I went through most foods listed- pointless comparing one to wheat if it's not a real food. I was pointing out effects of wheat.
    You were talking about ice cream and chocolate. I never mention them. It should be obvious that they aren't that high.


    I said potato, baked sweet potato, parsnip (when cooked), rice and watermelon were higher wheat. How are they not real foods?
    Your comment about wheat was incorrect. You also ignored the part about ingredients in isolation.

    GI and higher fat diets are concepts that I generally like. And you could say I follow a similar diet. Bit I don't agree with picking out random snippets or repeating rules without understanding the underlying reasons.


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  • #37
    Bruno26
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 979 ✭✭✭Bruno26


    Mellor wrote: »
    Your definition of the right foods must be incredibly boring.

    I eat butter, cream, all cuts of meat, nuts and nut butters, amount other stuff like veg. I think these are perfectly healthy but I'm also aware of the energy content. If I'm not careful with my portion size I won't be on weight in a month.


    Not quite. You are it not keto because you are, ironically, eating too many carbs. If you cut carbs to 50g or less you'll be in ketosis. And fat would rise to 50-60% of consumption.


    You were talking about ice cream and chocolate. I never mention them. It should be obvious that they aren't that high.


    I said potato, baked sweet potato, parsnip (when cooked), rice and watermelon were higher wheat. How are they not real foods?
    Your comment about wheat was incorrect. You also ignored the part about ingredients in isolation.

    GI and higher fat diets are concepts that I generally like. And you could say I follow a similar diet. Bit I don't agree with picking out random snippets or repeating rules without understanding the underlying reasons.

    Don't know how you can define foods as boring. If you can cook , food doesn't have to be boring- lots of spices etc.

    Yes if I eat more fat it's likely id eat less carbs.

    They are real foods- don't know if I said they weren't- if I did then I withdraw that. All are very close in GI range. The population tends to eat more wheat than any of those therefore effects can be worse.


  • #38
    Mellor
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,226 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    Bruno26 wrote: »
    Don't know how you can define foods as boring. If you can cook , food doesn't have to be boring- lots of spices etc.
    I'm a pretty good cook. My point was that some of the best foods are quite indulgent. It's easy to overeat with these, if you avoid then to be safe - it's boring.
    Yes if I eat more fat it's likely id eat less carbs.
    Read what I said again.
    You don't eat more fat.
    By dropping carbs to 25-50g, the same fat intake (163g) is a higher % of overall intake.
    It's carbs that keep you out if ketosis there.
    They are real foods- don't know if I said they weren't- if I did then I withdraw that. All are very close in GI range. The population tends to eat more wheat than any of those therefore effects can be worse.
    I'm aware of the problems with over consumption of wheat. I'm just pointing out that not the highest GI, by a long shot.
    Bread is the devil, but nobody bats an eye at 200g of paleo sweet potatoes


  • #39
    metamorphosis
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,991 ✭✭✭metamorphosis


    Bruno26 wrote: »
    metamorphosis wrote: »
    Carbs, sugar, fat, protein ... none of it is the ****ing devil ... people eating **** imitations of food that fall into said bracket or too much is what the problem is.

    Since the 1970s due to US guidelines we have eaten far too many carbs and sugar. We under eat fat by massive amounts - I suppose we also don't eat enough protein.
    Everything in moderation is a shocking statement

    That's a different arguement altogether and one I don't hugely argue with.

    70's saw the food pyramid which saw another increase in grain consumption. i see most grains as processed and imitation of real food in most instances

    Things tend to balance out and work themselves out (not everything) when people don't rely on a package to eat from or out of


  • #40
    Bruno26
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 979 ✭✭✭Bruno26


    Mellor wrote: »
    I'm a pretty good cook. My point was that some of the best foods are quite indulgent. It's easy to overeat with these, if you avoid then to be safe - it's boring.


    Read what I said again.
    You don't eat more fat.
    By dropping carbs to 25-50g, the same fat intake (163g) is a higher % of overall intake.
    It's carbs that keep you out if ketosis there.


    I'm aware of the problems with over consumption of wheat. I'm just pointing out that not the highest GI, by a long shot.
    Bread is the devil, but nobody bats an eye at 200g of paleo sweet potatoes

    It's possible to eat more fat as you could be hungrier- I get the %s

    I'd rather eat 200 g of sweet potato. There are much more damaging consequences from the wheat on overall health over a lifetime.


  • #41
    ford2600
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,457 ✭✭✭ford2600


    Mellor wrote: »
    Not quite. You are it not keto because you are, ironically, eating too many carbs. If you cut carbs to 50g or less you'll be in ketosis. And fat would rise to 50-60% of consumption.

    Not sure you are 100% right there.(not looking for an arguement, there is enough of them going on!)

    Many need to drop carbs to 25g to get into ketosis, others can get away with 100g.

    Also even if carbs are low, but protein is high, the protein will keep you out of ketosis.


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  • #42
    Bruno26
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 979 ✭✭✭Bruno26


    ford2600 wrote: »
    Not sure you are 100% right there.(not looking for an arguement, there is enough of them going on!)

    Many need to drop carbs to 25g to get into ketosis, others can get away with 100g.

    Also even if carbs are low, but protein is high, the protein will keep you out of ketosis.


    That is spot on.


  • #43
    Mellor
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,226 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    ford2600 wrote: »
    Not sure you are 100% right there.(not looking for an arguement, there is enough of them going on!)

    Many need to drop carbs to 25g to get into ketosis, others can get away with 100g.

    Also even if carbs are low, but protein is high, the protein will keep you out of ketosis.
    I'd agree with that. I never said 50g was always the limit. My point was that 150g would keep virtually everyone out of keto. I was suggesting 50g as a start point, but everyone should vary from there to see what works.

    I don't think protein would be too high for the macros posted.


  • #44
    Davei141
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,541 ✭✭✭Davei141


    Bruno all your posts read like some body who has just discovered low carbing and is getting decent results from it, so you are in the "This is the only way to do things phase" that many people go through. I don't eat wheat or sugar in my diet as they make me feel sluggish, but saying carbs are the only thing that make people gain weight is stupid. You say you never count calories yet you count macros, it is the exact same thing, just a more simplified version of it.


  • #45
    Blacktie.
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,903 ✭✭✭Blacktie.


    Davei141 wrote: »
    Bruno all your posts read like some body who has just discovered low carbing and is getting decent results from it, so you are in the "This is the only way to do things phase" that many people go through. I don't eat wheat or sugar in my diet as they make me feel sluggish, but saying carbs are the only thing that make people gain weight is stupid. You say you never count calories yet you count macros, it is the exact same thing, just a more simplified version of it.

    To be fair I don't think he counts macros. I think he just done it over a few days because of this and similar threads.


  • #46
    traco
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,729 ✭✭✭traco


    Eskimo studies for those interested, haven't read them so no idea of the diest involved but the findings seem to indictae overweight, obesity and abdominal fat. BTW I am very pro paleo / primal or whatever but don't see carbs as the be all and end all. Proper carbs as in fruit and veg opposed to bread and donuts are the way forward from my experience. Also use dairy as a protein carb source with protein powder after workouts.
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10951530
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10702767


  • #47
    Alf Veedersane
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,912 ✭✭✭✭Alf Veedersane


    traco wrote: »
    Proper carbs as in fruit and veg opposed to bread and donuts are the way forward from my experience.

    Would a jam donut be a happy medium?


    Well, if it was a berry jam, obvz.


  • #48
    traco
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,729 ✭✭✭traco


    Alf Veedersane wrote: »
    Would a jam donut be a happy medium?


    Well, if it was a berry jam, obvz.

    Could it be made with spelt flour and stevia instead of sugar??? Is that organic wild berry jam???

    I'm making coffee here and all I see in the press are Avoca cup cakes :(


  • #49
    Bruno26
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 979 ✭✭✭Bruno26


    Davei141 wrote: »
    Bruno all your posts read like some body who has just discovered low carbing and is getting decent results from it, so you are in the "This is the only way to do things phase" that many people go through. I don't eat wheat or sugar in my diet as they make me feel sluggish, but saying carbs are the only thing that make people gain weight is stupid. You say you never count calories yet you count macros, it is the exact same thing, just a more simplified version of it.

    Carbs are the only thing that people fat.

    This is the easiest sustainable way. Easier than calorie counting in my view .


  • #50
    Alf Veedersane
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,912 ✭✭✭✭Alf Veedersane


    traco wrote: »
    Could it be made with spelt flour and stevia instead of sugar??? Is that organic wild berry jam???

    It's just better to assume so.


  • #51
    Alf Veedersane
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,912 ✭✭✭✭Alf Veedersane


    traco wrote: »
    I'm making coffee here and all I see in the press are Avoca cup cakes :(

    giphy.gif


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  • #52
    Davei141
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,541 ✭✭✭Davei141


    Bruno26 wrote: »
    Carbs are the only thing that people fat.

    This is the easiest sustainable way. Easier than calorie counting in my view .

    So naive. Newsflash, there are a million effective ways to lose weight.


  • #53
    Bruno26
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 979 ✭✭✭Bruno26


    Davei141 wrote: »
    So naive. Newsflash, there are a million effective ways to lose weight.

    Can you explain the obesity epidemic- too much fat, too much protein, too much carbs,

    There are 2 ways- one I believe to be much easier than the other.


  • #54
    Bruno26
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 979 ✭✭✭Bruno26


    Davei141 wrote: »
    So naive. Newsflash, there are a million effective ways to lose weight.

    Can you explain the obesity epidemic- too much fat, too much protein, too much carbs?

    There are 2 ways- one I believe to be much easier than the other.


  • #55
    Davei141
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,541 ✭✭✭Davei141


    Bruno26 wrote: »
    Can you explain the obesity epidemic- too much fat, too much protein, too much carbs,

    There are 2 ways- one I believe to be much easier than the other.

    People drive everywhere. Everything is convenient making people lazier, microwave meals, oven pizza's etc. Life on a computer is more appealing these days. It isn't just foods that are causing the obesity epidemic, although it is a huge contribution.

    Another huge factor is people are just plain old ignorant of what constitutes good nutrition. I am happy that you are interested in these things, i wish more people would be. I can guarantee though that you will come full circle and moderate your anti carb stance and realise that fresh bloody real food, cooking your own fresh meals from scratch, regardless of it being carb/fat/protein is the most important of all.


  • #56
    runawaybishop
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,541 ✭✭✭runawaybishop


    Bruno26 wrote: »
    It's near impossible to overeat fat when eating the right foods- therefore one will
    find it near impossible to get fat eating this way.

    Yes someone said it was very dangerous- that's why I pointed that out and this was the basis of my post to show it wasn't.

    Actaully i said your advice that you can eat whatever you want and not get fat as long as you dont eat wheat was dangerous and stupid, which it is.

    You seem to think wheat was what made you fat, it wasn't You made you fat by eating too much, just like you made you slimmer by eating less.


  • #57
    Bruno26
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 979 ✭✭✭Bruno26


    runawaybishop wrote: »
    Actaully i said your advice that you can eat whatever you want and not get fat as long as you dont eat wheat was dangerous and stupid, which it is.

    You seem to think wheat was what made you fat, it wasn't You made you fat by eating too much, just like you made you slimmer by eating less.

    Explain why I ate average 2,900 calories and stayed fat - now eat average 3,500 and have lost fat and maintained it. It ain't stupid- keep reading .


  • #58
    Bruno26
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 979 ✭✭✭Bruno26


    Davei141 wrote: »
    People drive everywhere. Everything is convenient making people lazier, microwave meals, oven pizza's etc. Life on a computer is more appealing these days. It isn't just foods that are causing the obesity epidemic, although it is a huge contribution.

    Another huge factor is people are just plain old ignorant of what constitutes good nutrition. I am happy that you are interested in these things, i wish more people would be. I can guarantee though that you will come full circle and moderate your anti carb stance and realise that fresh bloody real food, cooking your own fresh meals from scratch, regardless of it being carb/fat/protein is the most important of all.

    It is mostly food.


  • #59
    Hanley
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 21,981 ✭✭✭✭Hanley


    Cliff notes?


  • #60
    MikeC101
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,707 ✭✭✭MikeC101


    Bruno26 wrote: »
    Explain why I ate average 2,900 calories and stayed fat - now eat average 3,500 and have lost fat and maintained it. It ain't stupid- keep reading .

    1. You miscounted or didn't accurately track your calorie intake over a long enough period, pre or post LCHF. Incredibly easy to do unless you weighed and measured everything and with increased satiety from fat you end up thinking "wow I ate LOADS" when it might not have been ALL that high in calories
    2. Your diet was relatively low in protein before, switching to higher fats may lead to an increase in protein intake as well (if you get your fats from eggs, fatty cuts of meat etc). This increase in protein has lead to a gradual improvement in body composition
    3. A lot of the fat you think you're now consuming is actually rendered off while grilling
    4. LCHF elves have been performing liposuction on you while you sleep
    5. A wizard did it

    Or maybe LCHF is the magic bullet. I actually like it a lot - when I started trying to lose weight it was the route I started on and the rapid change was probably what kept me on track - but I'm not convinced at all that it's as wonderful as you're claiming.


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  • #61
    jive
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,762 ✭✭✭jive


    Hanley wrote: »
    Cliff notes?

    bruno kicked carbs and eats high fat, claims he loses more weight on 3500 of high fat diet than 2900 of carb heavy diet

    claims carbs are most pressing issue in the world at large

    people question what his point is


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