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HFLC

1356

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,863 ✭✭✭kevpants


    I thought Bruno26 was the long distance keto cyclist from a similar thread a few weeks back but I don't see that thread in his posting history.

    These guys are great with the studies and the anecdotal evidence but if you're interested in actual performance, no one who makes a living from performing athletically ever follows these principals.

    I always think of it in terms of any diet that will actually prevent you from doing certain things is bad. Like some ketogenic guy with abs and a smug expression walking down the street feeling superior when suddenly:

    GLUTEN LOVING 30-SOMETHING: "Quick the zombie apocolypse is here we need to run 12k to the nearest Government safe zone!"
    SMUG KETO GUY: "Well my glycogen levels aren't sufficient to allow that kind of low intensity aerobic activity but I do have several other significant health advantages that..."
    GLUTEN LOVER: "Cool story bro. Anyway I'm outa here, glad I had that breakfast roll"
    SMUGGY: "You know you're setting yourself up for a an increased risk of long term health issues and...."
    ZOMBIE: "Braaaaaaaaiiiiiiiiiiinnnnnnnnsss"
    SMUGGY: "Aaaaarrrgh you bit through my Under Armour turtle neck!!"
    GLUTEY: "LOL!"
    Davei141 wrote: »
    Bruno all your posts read like some body who has just discovered low carbing and is getting decent results from it, so you are in the "This is the only way to do things phase" that many people go through. I don't eat wheat or sugar in my diet as they make me feel sluggish, but saying carbs are the only thing that make people gain weight is stupid. You say you never count calories yet you count macros, it is the exact same thing, just a more simplified version of it.

    Fundamentalists religious, political, nutritional or otherwise should be ignored.
    (have had several beers!!)

    I can get on board with this


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,762 ✭✭✭jive


    kevpants wrote: »
    I thought Bruno26 was the long distance keto cyclist from a similar thread a few weeks back but I don't see that thread in his posting history.

    haha i remember that thread the guy had a shít breakfast and then 'didn't eat again that day and felt great'


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,522 ✭✭✭runawaybishop


    Hanley wrote: »
    Cliff notes?

    Eating wheat will make you put on weight no matter what your total calories are. If you ditch wheat you can eat as much meat, veg, cream nuts etc as you want and not put on weight even in a surplus.

    I'm not trolling, this is literally what he is saying. Not sure why this sh1te is allowed tbh.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 979 ✭✭✭Bruno26


    Eating wheat will make you put on weight no matter what your total calories are. If you ditch wheat you can eat as much meat, veg, cream nuts etc as you want and not put on weight even in a surplus.

    I'm not trolling, this is literally what he is saying. Not sure why this sh1te is allowed tbh.


    You are close to truth - well done - good research


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,457 ✭✭✭ford2600


    kevpants wrote: »
    I thought Bruno26 was the long distance keto cyclist from a similar thread a few weeks back but I don't see that thread in his posting history.


    The long distance cyclist was me; in case you forget that was the thread where you
    * started by saying my posts were some of the worst advice you'd seen on the forum and
    *ended with you saying (after you read what I posted and actually ate) that you really respected guys like me who have their training dialed in
    * despite numerous "authoritative" posts before finally admitted you knew nothing about long distance cycling
    You'd be best leaving that thread lie Kev or maybe uturns are your thing.

    You started smug (as you chose to mention it) and ended pretty contrite

    @bruno26 thinks he has all the answers, he has that in common with a few lads around here, they are just different answers. I don't know who is right or wrong,

    In my experience in all walks of life, you learn more when you ask questions, challenge consensus and listen to what other people say. Consensus rules here im afraid.

    It's a pity there are a lot of knowledgeable interesting posters on here also

    Of course hflc isn't the magic bullet answer to a growing obesity epidemic, it may work for some and calorie counting eating clean works for others.

    I personally run really well on food pyramid eating or hflc; pretty decent athlete on both.
    Will that change as I age? If so why? If I start bike racing, can carbs play a role without impacting on benefits of high fat diet?
    If I reintroduc a lot of carbs will my triglycerides rise and hdl fall? Does it matter?

    Is there anyone who can give qualified answers to those questions?


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 979 ✭✭✭Bruno26


    ford2600 wrote: »
    kevpants wrote: »
    I thought Bruno26 was the long distance keto cyclist from a similar thread a few weeks back but I don't see that thread in his posting history.


    The long distance cyclist was me; in case you forget that was the thread where you
    * started by saying my posts were some of the worst advice you'd seen on the forum and
    *ended with you saying (after you read what I posted and actually ate) that you really respected guys like me who have their training dialed in
    * despite numerous "authoritative" posts before finally admitted you knew nothing about long distance cycling
    You'd be best leaving that thread lie Kev or maybe uturns are your thing.

    You started smug (as you chose to mention it) and ended pretty contrite

    @bruno26 thinks he has all the answers, he has that in common with a few lads around here, they are just different answers. I don't know who is right or wrong,

    In my experience in all walks of life, you learn more when you ask questions, challenge consensus and listen to what other people say. Consensus rules here im afraid.

    It's a pity there are a lot of knowledgeable interesting posters on here also

    Of course hflc isn't the magic bullet answer to a growing obesity epidemic, it may work for some and calorie counting eating clean works for others.

    I personally run really well on food pyramid eating or hflc; pretty decent athlete on both.
    Will that change as I age? If so why? If I start bike racing, can carbs play a role without impacting on benefits of high fat diet?
    If I reintroduc a lot of carbs will my triglycerides rise and hdl fall? Does it matter?

    Is there anyone who can give qualified answers to those questions?


    Those who believe in counting cals can answer as they know best - everyone else' with different view is ****ed up


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,588 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    Bruno26 wrote: »
    Explain why I ate average 2,900 calories and stayed fat - now eat average 3,500 and have lost fat and maintained it. It ain't stupid- keep reading .
    Explain how you can quote such exact figures, yet claim you don't monitor intake.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,863 ✭✭✭kevpants


    ford2600 wrote: »
    kevpants wrote: »
    I thought Bruno26 was the long distance keto cyclist from a similar thread a few weeks back but I don't see that thread in his posting history.


    The long distance cyclist was me; in case you forget that was the thread where you
    * started by saying my posts were some of the worst advice you'd seen on the forum and
    *ended with you saying (after you read what I posted and actually ate) that you really respected guys like me who have their training dialed in
    * despite numerous "authoritative" posts before finally admitted you knew nothing about long distance cycling
    You'd be best leaving that thread lie Kev or maybe uturns are your thing.

    You started smug (as you chose to mention it) and ended pretty contrite

    @bruno26 thinks he has all the answers, he has that in common with a few lads around here, they are just different answers. I don't know who is right or wrong,

    In my experience in all walks of life, you learn more when you ask questions, challenge consensus and listen to what other people say. Consensus rules here im afraid.

    It's a pity there are a lot of knowledgeable interesting posters on here also

    Of course hflc isn't the magic bullet answer to a growing obesity epidemic, it may work for some and calorie counting eating clean works for others.

    I personally run really well on food pyramid eating or hflc; pretty decent athlete on both.
    Will that change as I age? If so why? If I start bike racing, can carbs play a role without impacting on benefits of high fat diet?
    If I reintroduc a lot of carbs will my triglycerides rise and hdl fall? Does it matter?

    Is there anyone who can give qualified answers to those questions?

    I admitted to respecting your attention to detail whilst maintaining you were wrong.

    But its fine don't worry you totally won, long distance low carb cycling makes perfect sense.

    Consensus doesn't rule here, just because you didn't get away with spouting absolutes about low carb training to an audience of inexperienced people who would end up physically ill if they tried the delicate balancing act you get away with doesn't mean you get to take the high ground.

    Your advice was shocking, i respect what you've achieved but if some one starting off long distance cycling or running was looking for guidance can you honestly say they should try it low carb? That's ridiculous.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,457 ✭✭✭ford2600


    kevpants wrote: »
    ford2600 wrote: »

    I admitted to respecting your attention to detail whilst maintaining you were wrong.

    But its fine don't worry you totally won, long distance low carb cycling makes perfect sense.

    Consensus doesn't rule here, just because you didn't get away with spouting absolutes about low carb training to an audience of inexperienced people who would end up physically ill if they tried the delicate balancing act you get away with doesn't mean you get to take the high ground.

    Your advice was shocking, i respect what you've achieved but if some one starting off long distance cycling or running was looking for guidance can you honestly say they should try it low carb? That's ridiculous.


    How can you with no background or knowledge in ultra long distance cycling be sure I'm wrong?

    I'm not looking to convert anyone or prove one is better or worse; both high and low carb work really well for me.

    HFLC has certain important advantages on stupidly long cycles; very little fuel needed in during cycle. Having cycled with groups eating the traditional way, they invariably at sime stage suffer for an hour or so after taking on a big meal, which is necessary if eating high carb and cycling 400km plus.

    If I wish to race then carbs and proper timing of sugar is king, but I don't race.

    if people get wrong impression by, like you not actually reading what I posted about what I eat, should I keep repeating it to be sure?

    I notice you didn't answer any of my questions on hdl, triglycerides etc? Since you seem to be an expert on all nutritional matters any advice or just more smugness and pronouncements of certainty?

    I'm not certain of anything but I'm prepared to carefully experiment and ask questions; I wish I had it all figured but alas not.

    For someone starting cycling, eat what your used to, join a club. Once you get good at cycling, inform yourself on nutrition and see what works for your body. There is no one diet for all; listen to your own body


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,863 ✭✭✭kevpants


    ford2600 wrote: »
    kevpants wrote: »


    How can you with no background or knowledge in ultra long distance cycling be sure I'm wrong?

    I'm not looking to convert anyone or prove one is better or worse; both high and low carb work really well for me.

    HFLC has certain important advantages on stupidly long cycles; very little fuel needed in during cycle. Having cycled with groups eating the traditional way, they invariably at sime stage suffer for an hour or so after taking on a big meal, which is necessary if eating high carb and cycling 400km plus.

    If I wish to race then carbs and proper timing of sugar is king, but I don't race.

    if people get wrong impression by, like you not actually reading what I posted about what I eat, should I keep repeating it to be sure?

    I notice you didn't answer any of my questions on hdl, triglycerides etc? Since you seem to be an expert on all nutritional matters any advice or just more smugness and pronouncements of certainty?

    I'm not certain of anything but I'm prepared to carefully experiment and ask questions; I wish I had it all figured but alas not.

    For someone starting cycling, eat what your used to, join a club. Once you get good at cycling, inform yourself on nutrition and see what works for your body. There is no one diet for all; listen to your own body

    I don't give a toss about triglycerides. You said you were a better athlete using your diet. Now you say if you wanted to race you'd need sugar. Which is it? U turn my ar5e.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 979 ✭✭✭Bruno26


    Check out some hflc athletes - Lewis Pugh , Australian cricket team, bruce fordyce, la lakers ,timothy Olson all hflc


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,541 ✭✭✭Davei141


    Bruno26 wrote: »
    Check out some hflc athletes - Lewis Pugh , Australian cricket team, bruce fordyce, la lakers ,timothy Olson all hflc

    Non HFLC athletes - Everyone else.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 362 ✭✭Wood


    Bruno26 wrote: »
    Check out some hflc athletes - Lewis Pugh , Australian cricket team, bruce fordyce, la lakers ,timothy Olson all hflc

    None of them look like athletes bar the Lakers.

    Also the Laker's diet as per Dr. Cate:
    "Breakfast usually consists of an omelet(sic) station and a buffet with things like whole wheat pancakes and oatmeal. Lunch includes a pasta station and a buffet with two kinds of meat and lots of green leafy vegetables."

    Not very low carb, and they were terrible.

    Low carb high fat has its place, but as a blanket prescription for everybody it is ridiculous.

    Basing your opinion on three or four books and a couple of films is not very well thought out or researched. Do a little bit more study and form your own opinion based on your thoughts, not a bandwagon.

    Advanced nutrition and human metabolism by Gropper, Smith and Groff is a good starting point.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,802 ✭✭✭✭Alf Veedersane


    Bruno26 wrote: »
    Check out some hflc athletes - Lewis Pugh , Australian cricket team, bruce fordyce, la lakers ,timothy Olson all hflc

    Pretty sure they didn't all go on it, more like half the squad, and the less athletic half.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 979 ✭✭✭Bruno26




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,541 ✭✭✭Davei141


    Nobody cares.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 979 ✭✭✭Bruno26


    Davei141 wrote: »
    Nobody cares.

    You've showed you care enough to comment- so you just contradicted yourself- sound


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,522 ✭✭✭runawaybishop


    Bruno26 wrote: »

    This is old news. We don't advocate low fat diets here.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 21,981 ✭✭✭✭Hanley


    Davei141 wrote: »
    Non HFLC athletes - Everyone else.

    Post o' the week <3


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 979 ✭✭✭Bruno26


    This is old news. We don't advocate low fat diets here.

    Is it?

    Do you speak for everyone around here!


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 979 ✭✭✭Bruno26


    Hanley wrote: »
    Post o' the week <3

    Lots of others also


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 979 ✭✭✭Bruno26


    Celtic team could be eating this way soon. See Ronny Deila and Stromsgodset FC Norway.
    http://awesomeashild.com/2013/06/22/so-what-about-exercise-on-lchf-is-it-even-possible/


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,802 ✭✭✭✭Alf Veedersane


    Bruno26 wrote: »
    Celtic team could be eating this way soon. See Ronny Deila and Stromsgodset FC Norway.
    http://awesomeashild.com/2013/06/22/so-what-about-exercise-on-lchf-is-it-even-possible/

    And Accrington Stanley....though they've dropped the dairy.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,056 ✭✭✭AltAccount


    Bruno26 wrote: »
    Celtic team could be eating this way soon. See Ronny Deila and Stromsgodset FC Norway.
    http://awesomeashild.com/2013/06/22/so-what-about-exercise-on-lchf-is-it-even-possible/

    I especially love bits like this:
    For elite athletes (and think about how it would affect the rest of us) eating an excessive amount of carbohydrates will reduce the availability for fat as the primary energy source, it may lead to lower quality of sleep [citation needed] and a slower restitution process [citation needed]. A diet high in carbohydrate can lead to more inflammation in the body [citation needed] and you will get injured more easily [citation needed]. And of course, last, but not least, an excessive intake of carbs will lead to weight gain from fat (not muscle) [citation needed, "excessive" needs to be defined] and this again will lead to a higher risk of injury due to carrying to much weight and will reduce performance (i.e. you will run slower and be weaker) [citation needed, unless you're just stating the blindingly obvious in a "scientific" way].

    Why oh why don't people writing articles like this (and I include you in this Bruno) post links to the studies that are the source of all the "may cause..." and "has shown to be..." statements?

    Even a Wikipedia article is a more reliable source of research/information than blog posts like this...


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,522 ✭✭✭runawaybishop


    Bruno26 wrote: »
    Is it?

    Do you speak for everyone around here!

    You won't find anyone that posts on the H+F forum regularly advocating low fat diets. I don't need to be an appointed representative to say that :rolleyes:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 979 ✭✭✭Bruno26


    You won't find anyone that posts on the H+F forum regularly advocating low fat diets. I don't need to be an appointed representative to say that :rolleyes:

    I've never once said or accused that anyone on HERE advocates low fat.

    It is old news (thousands of years old) but its also new news. The idea that we can fuel ourselves on fat has been lost in the last 40-50 years. The belief that you cannot fuel yourself without carbs is incorrect.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,522 ✭✭✭runawaybishop


    Bruno26 wrote: »
    I've never once said or accused that anyone on HERE advocates low fat.

    It is old news (thousands of years old) but its also new news. The idea that we can fuel ourselves on fat has been lost in the last 40-50 years. The belief that you cannot fuel yourself without carbs is incorrect.

    Maybe the idea is new to you and you are excited about sharing it, but there is no need to try and ram it down peoples throats in every thread you post in.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 979 ✭✭✭Bruno26




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,395 ✭✭✭✭SteelyDanJalapeno


    Just saw this thread now Bruno, and saw you addressed me in the OP, can't remember why, maybe I disagreed with you in another thread? probably.

    Echoing what someone else has said earlier in this thread, all your posts are coming across as someone who has just discovered Paleo, hflc, wheat free or any other variation of this type of diet, you've seen good results in weight loss and it's working for you. But this doesn't mean it's the way the rest of us should be eating, this was all new to a lot of people 5 - 7 years ago and you wouldn't be getting half the debate you're getting now if you found it back then.

    In the 1st few weeks of cutting carbs, people see massive loses due to the amount of water carbs hold (every 1g can hold up to 3g of water) and I suppose the majority of people don't realize this fact, and it gives them great hope that they can lose 3 - 5 pounds of weight in the first week, that this diet must be amazing. Imagine you could easily eat well over you maintenance calorie value in proteins and fats and still lose weight due reducing carbs by losing the water, but this wont last obviously( and this sounds suspiciously like what you're experiencing), there's only so much water you can lose.

    You seem pretty open to watching documentaries on the evidence, there's an interesting Horizon documentary out there since a few months back, looks at 2 identical twins one on high sugar and one on high fat diets, I cant find it right now in work but here's and exert, try find it and give it a watch it's very interesting.



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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,457 ✭✭✭ford2600


    That horizon programme was only interesting as a demonstration of bad science and an example of two doctors who hadn't a clue on nutrition; surprise surprise.

    One was on a no carb diet, the other a no fat diet. Two horrible diets that no one with any knowledge is advocating


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