Begrudgery against people rising out of their social class?

steddyeddy · 21-05-2014 11:06PM

shruikan2553 wrote: »

Ive found it tends to be the people at the same level who begrudge those who do better. Two people from small town, one gets a degree while the other get a minimum wage job and talks about how the other guy thinks he is better than him and how he doesnt need a degree.

Well I don't like the turn level but the students who are most guilty are those who are born into far better circumstances than those they're slagging.

Vito Corleone · 21-05-2014 11:07PM

steddyeddy wrote: »

Do you come from a disadvantaged background?

No, but I went to a secondary school that was listed as disadvantaged so I'd have a fair few friends/acquaintances that would be of that background.

I'm sure it happens but I haven't seen it myself, I don't go to UCD however. Fully agree about the whole Irish begrudgery thing in general though.

josip · 21-05-2014 11:08PM

OU812 wrote: »

Famous quote by Bono on the Larry King show:
"Ireland has a very different attitude to success than a lot of places, certainly than over here in the United States. In the United States, you look at the guy that lives in the mansion on the hill, and you think, you know, one day, if I work really hard, I could live in that mansion. In Ireland, people look up at the guy in the mansion on the hill and go, one day, I'm going to get that bastard. It's a different mind-set."

Bono is a hypocrite.
He says that Ireland should give more money to developing countries.
This would be funded by the Irish taxpayer.
At the same time as U2 were moving their publishing to the Netherlands for tax purposes.
Self indulgent hypocrite.

4zn76tysfajdxp · 21-05-2014 11:09PM

OU812 wrote: »

Famous quote by Bono on the Larry King show:
"Ireland has a very different attitude to success than a lot of places, certainly than over here in the United States. In the United States, you look at the guy that lives in the mansion on the hill, and you think, you know, one day, if I work really hard, I could live in that mansion. In Ireland, people look up at the guy in the mansion on the hill and go, one day, I'm going to get that bastard. It's a different mind-set."

Bono said that? I'm going to get that bastard.

steddyeddy · 21-05-2014 11:11PM

Vito Corleone wrote: »

No, but I went to a secondary school that was listed as disadvantaged so I'd have a fair few friends/acquaintances that would be of that background.

I'm sure it happens but I haven't seen it myself, I don't go to UCD however. Fully agree about the whole Irish begrudgery thing in general though.

I didn't mean to be so direct it's just a lot of people who say it doesn't exist or it's being downplayed have never been at the receiving ends of the comments. I think the students being told this stuff have a case to be made for bullying.

Richard Hillman · 21-05-2014 11:32PM

I find this thread hard to believe and a little convenient considering there will be a massive push by the far left to create a class war before the elections.

Poor people get grants to have their fees paid for so nobody gets refused access to the UCD library unless you are from the squeezed middle.

When I first read the thread title I thought it was going to be about people of a low social class expecting others to live and die in the same social class. Social promotion is frowned upon in a lot of disadvantaged areas.

steddyeddy · 21-05-2014 11:39PM

Richard Hillman wrote: »

I find this thread hard to believe and a little convenient considering there will be a massive push by the far left to create a class war before the elections.

Poor people get grants to have their fees paid for so nobody gets refused access to the UCD library unless you are from the squeezed middle.

When I first read the thread title I thought it was going to be about people of a low social class expecting others to live and die in the same social class. Social promotion is frowned upon in a lot of disadvantaged areas.

Ok great this is exactly what I was talking about. Students must be doing something wrong or lying ect. How much does a student get and how much will he/she pay out per year in college?

Richard Hillman · 21-05-2014 11:48PM

steddyeddy wrote: »

Ok great this is exactly what I was talking about. Students must be doing something wrong or lying ect. How much does a student get and how much will he/she pay out per year in college?

Somebody with extremely limited financial means would have their Student Contribution Charge paid for them. This would mean that they would have full access to the UCD library.

steddyeddy · 21-05-2014 11:54PM

Richard Hillman wrote: »

Somebody with extremely limited financial means would have their Student Contribution Charge paid for them. This would mean that they would have full access to the UCD library.

No they don't!! As I said some are sans family so have to rent in Dublin to live in UCD out of their own pocket. You don't get rent allowance on the grant. Imagine paying for Dublin rents on a student grant as well as food, clothes and travel (if bus is required).

anncoates · 22-05-2014 12:00AM

I'd have been what you'd call a disadvantaged student in trinity and didn't encounter much of it to be fair. That said, it was really a different country them. Ironically even the most well off students I knew didn't have their own cars back then.

Turtwig · 22-05-2014 12:07AM

I don't think it's necessarily to do with people rising out of their social class. I think it's just plain aul ignorance and naivety. I don't think it's even related to class differences. I've seen some students, who's parents had made extraordinary sacrifices to keep their children from enduring hardship, be totally oblivious and ignorant towards the struggle others were making -even their own parents! It's an anecdote I know but in my experience it's never been begrudgery, just plain auld fashion ignorance.

Shakespeare's Sister · 22-05-2014 12:08AM

stimpson wrote: »

Boo hoo. I couldn't afford college. Or a car. Yet I've been working in a professional role for 20 years except for about 9 months between jobs. I pull in a decent wage and I even supported my wife and two kids for a couple of years when we decided she should stay at home.

There is more to life than getting a degree from UCD.

But this thread IS about people who are getting a degree in UCD?

jellyboy wrote: »

Ladies and nerds ,this example of proving the ops point wins the internet

Maybe if you took off your hat ,you could see a different angle..
instead of the rich arsehole looking down on the poorer classes angle

Bono hating thread >>>>>>

Their point is that there's this obsession with saying Ireland is full of begrudgers, when it's not actually, and no more so than lots of other countries.

Richard Hillman · 22-05-2014 12:10AM

steddyeddy wrote: »

No they don't!! As I said some are sans family so have to rent in Dublin to live in UCD out of their own pocket. You don't get rent allowance on the grant. Imagine paying for Dublin rents on a student grant as well as food, clothes and travel (if bus is required).

Yes they do and what you have just posted has nothing to do with rebuking your point that very poor people do not get access to the UCD library and services as they get their fees paid for them.

Electric Sheep · 22-05-2014 12:10AM

Turtwig wrote: »

I don't think it's necessarily to do with people rising out of their social class. I think it's just plain aul ignorance and naivety. I don't think it's even related to class differences. I've seen some students, who's parents had made extraordinary sacrifices to keep their children from enduring hardship, be totally oblivious and ignorant towards the struggle others were making -even their own parents! It's an anecdote I know but in my experience it's never been begrudgery, just plain auld fashion ignorance.

This is so true. Many think that their parents can just come up with the money, and if they can't have x, y, and z it is because their parents are tight, not that they can't afford it.

steddyeddy · 22-05-2014 12:12AM

Turtwig wrote: »

I don't think it's necessarily to do with people rising out of their social class. I think it's just plain aul ignorance and naivety. I don't think it's even related to class differences. I've seen some students, who's parents had made extraordinary sacrifices to keep their children from enduring hardship, be totally oblivious and ignorant towards the struggle others were making -even their own parents! It's an anecdote I know but in my experience it's never been begrudgery, just plain auld fashion ignorance.

That's it Turtwig. I wish people were concious of how much sacrifice people make to go to college and do something they love for ~4 years. It would be easier to go on the dole or get a full time job.

Turtwig · 22-05-2014 12:13AM

Many of them don't even like their course. Some hate them! They just see them as a job gateway (of which opportunities are scarce). This creates it's own problems but that's for another thread.

steddyeddy · 22-05-2014 12:17AM

Richard Hillman wrote: »

Yes they do and what you have just posted has nothing to do with rebuking your point that very poor people do not get access to the UCD library and services as they get their fees paid for them.

They don't because I work with very poor students in a voluntary capacity. You havent a clue what your talking about and for some reason you're bringing in political agendas.

A typical non payment of fees letter from UCD:

The University has a grace period of several weeks
for continuing students with their student card and
specifically access to the Library. This runs out
on 30 September every year. Your minimum fee
payment was due to be paid by Sunday, 9 September 2
012.
Your UCARD which gives you access to the Library ha
s today been deactivated as our records
currently show that you have not paid your minimum
fee payment requirement for 2012/13.
The importance of paying fees to maintaining access
to services such as the Library has been in
Registration reminders to students through the summ
er and last month.

steddyeddy · 22-05-2014 12:19AM

Turtwig wrote: »

Many of them don't even like their course. Some hate them! They just see them as a job gateway (of which opportunities are scarce). This creates it's own problems but that's for another thread.

Well that's very true and a lot of people who do science can't stand it. I would estimate 40% like it and maybe 10% love it.

steddyeddy · 22-05-2014 12:22AM

Here we are spelled out in black and white from the college Tribune:

Library access has been restricted since last Monday for students who have not yet paid their registration fee.
A number of students who contacted the paper were annoyed that, because they hadn’t received their grant, they were unable to pay their fees and now can’t borrow books or use the laptop loan service.
Speaking to the College Tribune about the situation Shane Comer, UCD Students’ Union Education Officer, said the SU are “extremely disappointed” with the situation and that “students should not be punished for [the] delay in grants being processed”.
He went on to lay the blame for the delay in the processing of grants firmly on the grant awarding authorities, including the county councils, VECs and the new online service, Student Universal Support Ireland (SUSI).
Michael Sinnott, Director of Administrative Services with UCD Registry said that this year, “all new grant applicants are being processed by SUSI…however, it would appear to be experiencing some first year challenges.” Mr Sinnott stated that UCD Registry had only received their first file from SUSI on Thursday of last week, substantially later than was expected. He went on to say that, “the number of students contained on the file is minuscule compared with the total number of students we expect to ultimately be awarded a SUSI grant.”

steddyeddy · 22-05-2014 12:24AM

anncoates wrote: »

I'd have been what you'd call a disadvantaged student in trinity and didn't encounter much of it to be fair. That said, it was really a different country them. Ironically even the most well off students I knew didn't have their own cars back then.

I said it before and I'll say it again Trinity is more inclusive than UCD despite reputation.

steddyeddy · 22-05-2014 12:27AM

Duck's hoop wrote: »

In America they charge you the price of a decent house to go to university. Pat you on the back my ball sack.

I was referring to the sentiment from fellow students not the university entry fee.

Richard Hillman · 22-05-2014 12:42AM

steddyeddy wrote: »

They don't because I work with very poor students in a voluntary capacity. You havent a clue what your talking about and for some reason you're bringing in political agendas.

A typical non payment of fees letter from UCD:

OK, if you do work with disadvantaged students (which I don't think you do) I would advise you to inform them that they need to apply to SUSI to apply for their fees grant.

Surely themselves and you (as somebody who works with disadvantaged students) knows this. If you get the grant, you get library access.

Turtwig · 22-05-2014 12:48AM

You don't have library access if your fees are unpaid be it by SUSI or you.

The grant doesn't always cover registration fees and the student contribution/levy.

Accusing someone of lying when you've no proof to the contrary is not on.

steddyeddy · 22-05-2014 12:50AM

Richard Hillman wrote: »

OK, if you do work with disadvantaged students (which I don't think you do) I would advise you to inform them that they need to apply to SUSI to apply for their fees grant.

Surely themselves and you (as somebody who works with disadvantaged students) knows this. If you get the grant, you get library access.

Ignorance upon ignorance. They get a grant which covers everything apart from the student contribution charge and student centre levy. That leaves ~240 unpaid.

steddyeddy · 22-05-2014 12:51AM

Turtwig wrote: »

You don't have library access if your fees are unpaid be it by SUSI or you.

The grant doesn't always cover registration fees and the student contribution/levy.

Accusing someone of lying when you've no proof to the contrary is not on.

Thank you.

steddyeddy · 22-05-2014 12:52AM

I'm not an undergraduate anymore but I work with students from the HEAR programme if people need more clarification. By work with them I just advise them and let them shadow me.

Mr. Incognito · 22-05-2014 12:58AM

There is no real social class divide in Ireland.

That is from someone who grew up on a council housing estate and works as a solicitor.

If you have a shortfall in your grant you work. Like most students.

FFS Class? In Ireland. Plenty of people up their own hole thinking they are something and plenty with a hand out complaining about being disadvantaged while they have enough for sky and fags.

If you want to see real wealth and class divide go to the us or Brazil or China or India.
Go to. Mississippi or Rio, or rural china or Mumbai.

People are moaning about not being able to get out library books. FFs. Well for ya.

Nonsense.

Motivator · 22-05-2014 01:01AM

Hang on a minute, sleeping in their car?

Where do they shower? Brush their teeth?

Turtwig · 22-05-2014 01:03AM

Motivator wrote: »

Hang on a minute, sleeping in their car?

Where do they shower? Brush their teeth?

The gym usually. It's surprisingly efficient. Sleep in vehicle, exercise in gym, shower and enter college.

steddyeddy · 22-05-2014 01:03AM

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

There is no real social class divide in Ireland.

That is from someone who grew up on a council housing estate and works as a solicitor.

If you have a shortfall in your grant you work. Like most students.

FFS Class? In Ireland. Plenty of people up their own hole thinking they are something and plenty with a hand out complaining about being disadvantaged while they have enough for sky and fags.

If you want to see real wealth and class divide go to the us or Brazil or China or India.
Go to. Mississippi or Rio, or rural china or Mumbai.

People are moaning about not being able to get out library books. FFs. Well for ya.

Nonsense.

I'll just tell people sleeping in their cars that it's worse in China

. What dribble.

Begrudgery against people rising out of their social class?

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