Begrudgery against people rising out of their social class?

steddyeddy · 21-05-2014 08:57PM #1

I'm in UCD and as many will know times are getting tougher for everyone out there. Some students from disadvantaged families (disadvantaged doesn't mean the dole!) or students with no families are finding it extremely hard to cope. Some students are sleeping in their cars (even with jobs and the grant rent in Dublin is insane). Now these people were born into exceptional circumstances and most people would say fair play to them for pursuing education and trying to carve out a decent life for themselves.

The problem is there is a subset of individuals in college who seem to look down on these people and their efforts. Because of financial difficulties some of these have been late with fees (approximately 100-180 short) and denied access to the library and other services. The more advantaged students (some of them by no means all) seem to look down on these students and spout phrases like "If they can't afford fees they shouldn't be in college".

Now the students who say this are not remarkable students in fact some repeat exams many times. Many students from disadvantaged backgrounds are brilliant (If you get 500 points in the leaving with no parental support and sh1tty school education you are doing something right). I.e these students have no right to judge who goes to college.

Is this sort of begrudgery against people trying to do well for themselves common or new? In America they pat you on the back for rising out of your social status. In university here it seems to be a stigma.

21-05-2014 08:59PM

Notions above their station in life!!

21-05-2014 09:01PM

Are there really students sleeping in their cars though. That's awful. Can the college student help funds not help?
Fair play to them being that determined to stick it out

jellyboy · 21-05-2014 09:01PM

Really op?

This is Ireland ,land of the begrudgers
If you haven't experienced it yet ,then your in for a shock..

Duck's hoop · 21-05-2014 09:03PM

steddyeddy wrote: »

In America they pat you on the back for rising out of your social status. In university here it seems to be a stigma.

In America they charge you the price of a decent house to go to university. Pat you on the back my ball sack.

steddyeddy · 21-05-2014 09:04PM

Duck's hoop wrote: »

In America they charge you the price of a decent house to go to university. Pat you on the back my ball sack.

A lot of disadvantaged students realise this and apply for scholarships!

hjkl · 21-05-2014 09:06PM

Duck's hoop wrote: »

In America they charge you the price of a decent house to go to university. Pat you on the back my ball sack.

Exactly. You won't see much poverty stricken inner city youths in the US going to University. Even if they were intelligent enough it would be impossible for them to afford.

jellyboy · 21-05-2014 09:08PM

frimpong wrote: »

Exactly. You won't see much poverty stricken inner city youths in the US going to University. Even if they were intelligent enough it would be impossible for them to afford.

I'm getting the lads in the conspiracy forums to pop there head on this thread in twenty mins..

Should be there cup of tea by then …

21-05-2014 09:10PM

frimpong wrote: »

Exactly. You won't see much poverty stricken inner city youths in the US going to University. Even if they were intelligent enough it would be impossible for them to afford.

I duno, I was looking at the financial assistance and scholarships for the ivy league ones, there's quite a lot of it
In the case of Yale and Harvard, if a student's family earns less than $60,000 a year, they will pay nothing for their education.
and families between 60-150k pay zero to ten %

I always thought you had to fork out loads and loads to go there but apparently not

http://money.howstuffworks.com/personal-finance/college-planning/admissions/ivy-league-admissions5.htm

http://www.admissionsconsultants.com/college/ivy_league_financial_aid.asp

steddyeddy · 21-05-2014 09:13PM

frimpong wrote: »

Exactly. You won't see much poverty stricken inner city youths in the US going to University. Even if they were intelligent enough it would be impossible for them to afford.

You actually do.

No Pants · 21-05-2014 09:14PM

steddyeddy wrote: »

Some students are sleeping in their cars (even with jobs and the grant rent in Dublin is insane).

Rent accommodation for college or run a car. I'm not surprised they can't afford both.

steddyeddy wrote: »

"If they can't afford fees they shouldn't be in college".

That's not looking down, that's stating a fact.

hjkl · 21-05-2014 09:18PM

No Pants wrote: »

That's not looking down, that's stating a fact.

It's not a fact it's an opinion. An opinion I disagree with. If you can't afford to pay the fees to go to college then you should get the financial assistance required to help you pay said fees.

Agricola · 21-05-2014 09:18PM

Never experienced this when I was in college and there were a fair few people who could be classed as disadvantaged. I was borderline myself! But then again, we all went to an IT so I suppose in many ways we were all disadvantaged compared to the elite in UCD and Trinners.

steddyeddy · 21-05-2014 09:20PM

No Pants wrote: »

Rent accommodation for college or run a car. I'm not surprised they can't afford both.

That's not looking down, that's stating a fact.

Yes it is looking down. Guess what? those students didn't pay fees either. Their parents did. Easy to be condescending when it's not you paying.

The Pheasant2 · 21-05-2014 09:24PM

I'm in UCD and can't say I've ever come across a single person who begrudges disadvantaged students - in my experience the more common reaction is to say good on ya and fair play

strobe · 21-05-2014 09:25PM

steddyeddy wrote: »

I'm in UCD and as many will know times are getting tougher for everyone out there. Some students from disadvantaged families (disadvantaged doesn't mean the dole!) or students with no families are finding it extremely hard to cope. Some students are sleeping in their cars (even with jobs and the grant rent in Dublin is insane). Now these people were born into exceptional circumstances and most people would say fair play to them for pursuing education and trying to carve out a decent life for themselves.

The problem is there is a subset of individuals in college who seem to look down on these people and their efforts. Because of financial difficulties some of these have been late with fees (approximately 100-180 short) and denied access to the library and other services. The more advantaged students (some of them by no means all) seem to look down on these students and spout phrases like "If they can't afford fees they shouldn't be in college".

Now the students who say this are not remarkable students in fact some repeat exams many times. Many students from disadvantaged backgrounds are brilliant (If you get 500 points in the leaving with no parental support and sh1tty school education you are doing something right). I.e these students have no right to judge who goes to college.

Is this sort of begrudgery against people trying to do well for themselves common or new? In America they pat you on the back for rising out of your social status. In university here it seems to be a stigma.

I'd wager the people you speak of, the ones coming out with the "If they can't afford fees they shouldn't be in college" stuff also have a lot to say about other people, people who don't drink/drunk too much/drink the wrong thing, people who sleep around/are virgins, people with long hair/shaved heads, people that listen to techno/classic rock?

Some people are just arseholey. Cripplingly insecure usually and have a bunch of hang-ups from when they were teased as children about one thing or another. Looking down on others and vocally so, is a way of desperately trying to deflect attention away from themselves and their own self perceived inadequacies with the subtlety of an ox.

Not in all cases obviously, but IME most.

Pity them. It must be awful to be like that.

OU812 · 21-05-2014 09:26PM

Famous quote by Bono on the Larry King show:

"Ireland has a very different attitude to success than a lot of places, certainly than over here in the United States. In the United States, you look at the guy that lives in the mansion on the hill, and you think, you know, one day, if I work really hard, I could live in that mansion. In Ireland, people look up at the guy in the mansion on the hill and go, one day, I'm going to get that bastard. It's a different mind-set."

KyussBishop · 21-05-2014 09:30PM

In the US, students often go into debt to go through college, and because of this there is a crisis of unsustainable college debt:
http://www.forbes.com/sites/specialfeatures/2013/08/07/how-the-college-debt-is-crippling-students-parents-and-the-economy/

stimpson · 21-05-2014 09:35PM

Boo hoo. I couldn't afford college. Or a car. Yet I've been working in a professional role for 20 years except for about 9 months between jobs. I pull in a decent wage and I even supported my wife and two kids for a couple of years when we decided she should stay at home.

There is more to life than getting a degree from UCD.

Tin Foil Hat · 21-05-2014 09:39PM

OU812 wrote: »

Famous quote by Bono on the Larry King show:
"Ireland has a very different attitude to success than a lot of places, certainly than over here in the United States. In the United States, you look at the guy that lives in the mansion on the hill, and you think, you know, one day, if I work really hard, I could live in that mansion. In Ireland, people look up at the guy in the mansion on the hill and go, one day, I'm going to get that bastard. It's a different mind-set."

It might be famous, but that doesn't mean it's right. In fact, it's a load of balls.
The begrudgery of the Irish is a myth peddled by rich arseholes who would rather believe that people resent their success than dislike them for being arseholes. There's no better example of that than Bono.

steddyeddy · 21-05-2014 09:39PM

The Pheasant2 wrote: »

I'm in UCD and can't say I've ever come across a single person who begrudges disadvantaged students - in my experience the more common reaction is to say good on ya and fair play

Yes as I said most don't but a lot do. Look at the UCD forum for some prime examples or asking the student union their view.

KyussBishop · 21-05-2014 09:40PM

Tin Foil Hat wrote: »

It might be famous, but that doesn't mean it's right. In fact, it's a load of balls.
The begrudgery of the Irish is a myth peddled by rich arseholes who would rather believe that people resent their success than dislike them for being arseholes. There's no better example of that than Bono.

Yea if anything, you get this kind of reverse-begrugery, where people whine about perfectly deserving people being on the dole and such.

steddyeddy · 21-05-2014 09:43PM

KyussBishop wrote: »

Yea if anything, you get this kind of reverse-begrugery, where people whine about perfectly deserving people being on the dole and such.

Well that happens too. Also there is begrudgery over disadvantaged students getting financial assistance.

jellyboy · 21-05-2014 09:43PM

Tin Foil Hat wrote: »

It might be famous, but that doesn't mean it's right. In fact, it's a load of balls.
The begrudgery of the Irish is a myth peddled by rich arseholes who would rather believe that people resent their success than dislike them for being arseholes. There's no better example of that than Bono.

Ladies and nerds ,this example of proving the ops point wins the internet

Maybe if you took off your hat ,you could see a different angle..
instead of the rich arsehole looking down on the poorer classes angle

Bono hating thread >>>>>>

kupus · 21-05-2014 09:54PM

OU812 wrote: »

Famous quote by Bono on the Larry King show:
"Ireland has a very different attitude to success than a lot of places, certainly than over here in the United States. In the United States, you look at the guy that lives in the mansion on the hill, and you think, you know, one day, if I work really hard, I could live in that mansion. In Ireland, people look up at the guy in the mansion on the hill and go, one day, I'm going to get that bastard. It's a different mind-set."

I think this sums it up perfect.
As much as I dont like bono for his schtick, I cant help but admire the guy for what he has done with his life and the achievements him and U2 have made.
I have the same admiration for David Beckham as well, not the brighest tool in the shed, but he surrounded himself with people that were and he made a great life for himself outside of football, by creating a brand that is still selling.

Electric Sheep · 21-05-2014 09:59PM

steddyeddy wrote: »

Well that happens too. Also there is begrudgery over disadvantaged students getting financial assistance.

I've seen a lot more of the offspring of comfortable farmers get financial assistance than disadvantaged students.

jellyboy · 21-05-2014 10:07PM

Electric Sheep wrote: »

I've seen a lot more of the offspring of comfortable farmers get financial assistance than disadvantaged students.

We now have inter species begrudery..:D

shruikan2553 · 21-05-2014 10:42PM

Ive found it tends to be the people at the same level who begrudge those who do better. Two people from small town, one gets a degree while the other get a minimum wage job and talks about how the other guy thinks he is better than him and how he doesnt need a degree.

Vito Corleone · 21-05-2014 10:58PM

Can't say I've noticed it to be honest.

steddyeddy · 21-05-2014 11:04PM

bluewolf wrote: »

Are there really students sleeping in their cars though. That's awful. Can the college student help funds not help?
Fair play to them being that determined to stick it out

Hey unfortunately it is true BW. The college funds can help out to a certain extent and in the case of family breakdown (the technical term for anything that causes you to be separate from your family) they try to provide rent money (or some of it) for accommodation. However funds are extremely limited and very much dependent on St.Vincent De Paul and the EU helping out.

steddyeddy · 21-05-2014 11:04PM

Vito Corleone wrote: »

Can't say I've noticed it to be honest.

Do you come from a disadvantaged background?

Begrudgery against people rising out of their social class?

Comments