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The Pro Austerity Crowd

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Comments

  • #482
    Idbatterim
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,677 ✭✭✭✭Idbatterim


    the disparity between what they left wingers define as rich and what I would are polls apart, its not some magic number. I certainly wouldnt call anyone earning a 100k etc or anywhere near it rich. Rich to me would be a worth in the tens of millions minimum, the likes of who have multiple properties, private jets, choppers, Bentleys and who lead or could lead an outrageous lifestyle for the rest of their days with the likelihood of never having to work again, unless some massively unexpected s**t hits the fan...


  • #483
    Ray Palmer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,351 ✭✭✭Ray Palmer


    ryan101 wrote: »
    I already did, they don't pay PAYE, they are not salaried employees, as directors they get a cut of the profits, they get share options, they get share dividends, and they have offshore vehicles set up to filter all this, hence they get richer.

    Now can you explain what austerity they have endured exactly ?

    That is not an answer and was pointed out straight away. You are incorrect. The question was somebody on 100k with their own company they work in how do they avoid paye/income tax?

    That is the question you were asked, answer that and I will be then able to answer your questions in a manner you can understand. The answer will let me gauge your understanding or reality


  • #484
    Bubbaclaus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,460 ✭✭✭Bubbaclaus


    ryan101 wrote: »
    Progressive for who ~? If "austerity is for everyone", why are only ordinary working people the ones experiencing it ?

    I'm not sure you understand what a progressive tax system is. Ireland has the most progressive in the EU. This means that the rich are taxed more and the poor taxed less than anywhere else in the EU.


  • #485
    longhalloween
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,207 ✭✭✭longhalloween


    ryan101 wrote: »
    I'll ask you again, what austerity do the wealthy in Ireland have to endure exactly ?

    Well, a worker on 100k will pay 8 times more tax than someone on a third of that income.

    Sure, a high earner won't find it too hard to pay the bills, but that's because they have good jobs on good salaries.

    Hate to break it to you, but Ireland is not a socialist country. Not everyone is going to feel the same level of "pain". But to begrudge someone simply because they earn more than you is shallow and petty.


  • #486
    beardy_mcgrath
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 27 ✭beardy_mcgrath


    ryan101 wrote: »
    For who, the ordinary people suffering the austerity measures, or the rich ?

    well regardless of what percentage of their income they pay to the state , a millionaire will live more comfortable than someone working at mc donalds

    only way i can answer your question


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  • #487
    ryan101
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,671 ✭✭✭ryan101


    Idbatterim wrote: »
    the disparity between what they left wingers define as rich and what I would are polls apart, its not some magic number. I certainly wouldnt call anyone earning a 100k etc or anywhere near it rich. Rich to me would be tens of millions minimum, the likes of who have multiple properties, private jets, choppers, Bentleys and who lead or could lead an outrageous lifestyle...

    90% of Wealth is owned by 10% of the people.
    Like the 250 in Sunday times Ireland's wealthiest, who are now worth more than they were before the recession. Can you explain, if "austerity is for everyone" as we are told, what austerity are they experiencing exactly ?


  • #488
    beardy_mcgrath
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 27 ✭beardy_mcgrath


    longhalloween wrote: »
    Well, a worker on 100k will pay 8 times more tax than someone on a third of that income.

    Sure, a high earner won't find it too hard to pay the bills, but that's because they have good jobs on good salaries.

    Hate to break it to you, but Ireland is not a socialist country.

    if ireland was socilist , the very well off would be a lot poorer but so would the middle class


  • #489
    ryan101
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,671 ✭✭✭ryan101


    longhalloween wrote: »
    Well, a worker on 100k will pay 8 times more tax than someone on a third of that income.

    Sure, a high earner won't find it too hard to pay the bills, but that's because they have good jobs on good salaries.

    Hate to break it to you, but Ireland is not a socialist country.

    Hate to break it to you, but it is a socialist country for the rich, since their debts have all been nationalised.


  • #490
    Idbatterim
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,677 ✭✭✭✭Idbatterim


    I'm not sure you understand what a progressive tax system is. Ireland has the most progressive in the EU. This means that the rich are taxed more and the poor taxed less than anywhere else in the EU.
    I love the way it is championed here as oh its a great thing, I'm sorry, I think the extent the extent of our "progressive" tax system is an immoral disgrace!


  • #491
    RecordStraight
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,292 ✭✭✭RecordStraight


    Ryan, you seem to have missed this post addressed to you.
    RecordStraight wrote: »
    How do you propose they should be subjected to austerity? A government grab for a huge portion of their wealth?

    Do you think they would stick around for this?

    Do you propose the government detaining them at airports while helping itself to a portion of their wealth?


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  • #492
    longhalloween
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,207 ✭✭✭longhalloween


    ryan101 wrote: »
    Hate to break it to you, but it is a socialist country for the rich, since their debts have all been nationalised.

    Oh god, here we go again.


  • #493
    Ray Palmer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,351 ✭✭✭Ray Palmer


    ryan101 wrote: »
    90% of Wealth is owned by 10% of the people.
    Like the 250 in Sunday times Ireland's wealthiest, who are now worth more than they were before the recession. Can you explain, if "austerity is for everyone" as we are told, what austerity are they experiencing exactly ?
    Who pays the majority of the income tax in the country? Hint look at your figures they are very close


  • #494
    RecordStraight
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,292 ✭✭✭RecordStraight


    ryan101 wrote: »
    Hate to break it to you, but it is a socialist country for the rich, since their debts have all been nationalised.
    "The rich" - who are these?

    "All their debts have been socialised" - really? How so?


  • #495
    Bubbaclaus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,460 ✭✭✭Bubbaclaus


    ryan101 wrote: »
    90% of Wealth is owned by 10% of the people.
    Like the 250 in Sunday times Ireland's wealthiest, who are now worth more than they were before the recession. Can you explain, if "austerity is for everyone" as we are told, what austerity are they experiencing exactly ?

    So your argument is that wealthy people have more wealth than non wealthy people?

    Wow!! News to me!!


  • #496
    Idbatterim
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,677 ✭✭✭✭Idbatterim


    90% of Wealth is owned by 10% of the people.
    Like the 250 in Sunday times Ireland's wealthiest, who are now worth more than they were before the recession. Can you explain, if "austerity is for everyone" as we are told, what austerity are they experiencing exactly ?
    Thats the thing, when you have lots of money, its very easy to make money, its getting to that position that is very difficult, unless its handed to you on a plate through inheritance, a lotto win, corruption like some of the Russian oligarchs etc...


  • #497
    beardy_mcgrath
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 27 ✭beardy_mcgrath


    ryan101 wrote: »
    90% of Wealth is owned by 10% of the people.
    Like the 250 in Sunday times Ireland's wealthiest, who are now worth more than they were before the recession. Can you explain, if "austerity is for everyone" as we are told, what austerity are they experiencing exactly ?

    " austerity " is a subjective term and means different things to different people

    the very wealthy do not worry about paying for groceries but they still pay higher rates of tax than someone earning 20 k per year

    an irish person earning 20 k per year pays less than half what someone earning the same in sweden would pay


  • #498
    ryan101
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,671 ✭✭✭ryan101


    Bubbaclaus wrote: »
    So your argument is that wealthy people have more wealth than non wealthy people?

    Wow!! News to me!!

    No, my argument is that if austerity is supposed to be for everyone, why are Ireland 250 richest richer than ever before ?


  • #499
    Ray Palmer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,351 ✭✭✭Ray Palmer


    ryan101 wrote: »
    Answer the question
    Why should anybody answer any questions from you when you ignore all put to you? Really curious?

    Is it because you have no job you want to engage with people even if it nonsense?


  • #500
    Bubbaclaus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,460 ✭✭✭Bubbaclaus


    ryan101 wrote: »
    90% of Wealth is owned by 10% of the people.

    Here's another stat for you. The richest 4.5% in this country country pay over 45% of the income tax. I bet you'd love them to pay all 100%, leaving the rest of us 95.5% getting baby fed.


  • #501
    ryan101
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,671 ✭✭✭ryan101


    beardy_mcgrath wrote: »
    " austerity " is a subjective term and means different things to different people

    the very wealthy do not worry about paying for groceries but they still pay higher rates of tax than someone earning 20 k per year

    an irish person earning 20 k per year pays less than half what someone earning the same in sweden would pay

    If austerity is supposed to be for everyone, why no austerity for the wealthy ?


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  • #502
    Ray Palmer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,351 ✭✭✭Ray Palmer


    ryan101 wrote: »
    No, my argument is that if austerity is supposed to be for everyone, why are Ireland 250 richest richer than ever before ?
    They aren't. Lots of people fell off the list.


  • #503
    ryan101
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,671 ✭✭✭ryan101


    Bubbaclaus wrote: »
    Here's another stat for you. The richest 4.5% in this country country pay over 45% of the income tax. I bet you'd love them to pay all 100%, leaving the rest of us 95.5% getting baby fed.

    I'd like you to find where I claimed that. I suppose if you're stuck you can always move onto pretending what I said.


  • #504
    beardy_mcgrath
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 27 ✭beardy_mcgrath


    Idbatterim wrote: »
    the disparity between what they left wingers define as rich and what I would are polls apart, its not some magic number. I certainly wouldnt call anyone earning a 100k etc or anywhere near it rich. Rich to me would be a worth in the tens of millions minimum, the likes of who have multiple properties, private jets, choppers, Bentleys and who lead or could lead an outrageous lifestyle for the rest of their days with the likelihood of never having to work again, unless some massively unexpected s**t hits the fan...

    their are degrees of rich , sure tony o reilly is rich but so too ( IMO ) is a GP in ireland for the simple reason that they are sheltered from competition unlike a hardware store owner or a car dealer , GP fees never dropped at all since 2007


  • #505
    Bubbaclaus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,460 ✭✭✭Bubbaclaus


    ryan101 wrote: »
    No, my argument is that if austerity is supposed to be for everyone, why are Ireland 250 richest richer than ever before ?

    Because they are investing and making profits from these investments.

    You aren't making any point here.


  • #506
    RecordStraight
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,292 ✭✭✭RecordStraight


    Ryan, you appear to have missed these two posts addressed to you.
    RecordStraight wrote: »
    How do you propose they should be subjected to austerity? A government grab for a huge portion of their wealth?

    Do you think they would stick around for this?

    Do you propose the government detaining them at airports while helping itself to a portion of their wealth?
    RecordStraight wrote: »
    "The rich" - who are these?

    "All their debts have been socialised" - really? How so?


  • #507
    bumper234
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,250 ✭✭✭✭bumper234


    ryan101 wrote: »
    If austerity is supposed to be for everyone, why no austerity for the wealthy ?

    Define austerity for us. How much tax should someone earning 20k pay and how much tax should someone earning 120k pay?


  • #508
    beardy_mcgrath
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 27 ✭beardy_mcgrath


    ryan101 wrote: »
    No, my argument is that if austerity is supposed to be for everyone, why are Ireland 250 richest richer than ever before ?

    assett inflation since 2009 , they had the capital to buy it , the situation in the usa is far worse where average incomes havent risen relatively speaking in decades


  • #509
    longhalloween
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,207 ✭✭✭longhalloween


    ryan101 wrote: »
    No, my argument is that if austerity is supposed to be for everyone, why are Ireland 250 richest richer than ever before ?

    Because they're in high profile, high paying jobs and invest their money wisely for decades.


  • #510
    Bubbaclaus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,460 ✭✭✭Bubbaclaus


    ryan101 wrote: »
    I'd like you to find where I claimed that. I suppose if you're stuck you can always move onto pretending what I said.

    You aren't saying anything at all, leaving the rest of us trying to figure out if you've an actual point to make.


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  • #511
    beardy_mcgrath
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 27 ✭beardy_mcgrath


    ryan101 wrote: »
    If austerity is supposed to be for everyone, why no austerity for the wealthy ?

    ive a sore head from going round in circles


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