The Pro Austerity Crowd

Idbatterim · 20-05-2014 02:34PM

Please explain how to do this as my accountant says I can't. I would love to cut my tax bill if this is possible.

you cant! Take as much as you can out in cash Ray, 100% of YOUR money in YOUR back pocket! Imagine for a second revenue came around every Friday and you had to hand over physical cash to them, you E100, your colleague E200, your colleague is getting nothing extra for his extra E100. I think there is some delusion simply because its a figure on a screen.

ryan101 · 20-05-2014 02:35PM

longhalloween wrote: »

Yeah, but they're still subject to capital gains tax when they sell those shares. It's one thing to be rich on paper, but another to have liquidity.

Capital gains is a lot cheaper than any PAYE

longhalloween · 20-05-2014 02:44PM

ryan101 wrote: »

Capital gains is a lot cheaper than any PAYE

So? Why do you have such a chip on your shoulder about people earning money?

ryan101 · 20-05-2014 02:47PM

longhalloween wrote: »

So? Why do you have such a chip on your shoulder about people earning money?

Who said I did, I have a issue about people not paying the same taxes as everyone else, while getting wealthier, and while not having any austerity to deal with, and then preaching that ordinary working people should be subject to Austerity measures. Austerity should be for everyone, not just ordinary working people.

Ray Palmer · 20-05-2014 02:50PM

Idbatterim wrote: »

you cant! Take as much as you can out in cash Ray, 100% of YOUR money in YOUR back pocket! Imagine for a second revenue came around every Friday and you had to hand over physical cash to them, you E100, your colleague E200, your colleague is getting nothing extra for his extra E100. I think there is some delusion simply because its a figure on a screen.

All my income has a clear paper trail and invoiced. I am not looking to cheat the system. When I set-up I was told all these wonderful tax claims I could make and none of them were true. I fully aware many people who get cash are not paying their tax bills.
I am also aware for my tax I get less than others paying less tax than me too.

The thing is when I started out people used to go on about how I would get loads of things off my tax and the vast majority are not true in anyway. I have a minor additional tax benefits based on spending

Idbatterim · 20-05-2014 02:52PM

Who said I did, I have a issue about people not paying the same taxes as everyone else, while getting wealthier, and while not having any austerity to deal with, and then preaching that ordinary working people should be subject to Austerity measures. Austerity should be for everyone, not just ordinary working people.

Hang on! the rich while maybe able to avoid paying out as high a rate as the rest of us, would be paying a fortune in other indirect taxes, and I dont believe that they pay no PAYE, PRSI, USC etc.

If we want it really fair, why doesnt everyone contribute X thousand per year and be done with it?

Ray Palmer · 20-05-2014 02:54PM

ryan101 wrote: »

Who said I did, I have a issue about people not paying the same taxes as everyone else, while getting wealthier, and while not having any austerity to deal with, and then preaching that ordinary working people should be subject to Austerity measures. Austerity should be for everyone, not just ordinary working people.

So tradesmen should be a huge issue for you. They often avoid tax and get paid cash in hand.
I'll gladly pay the same tax as everybody else as it would mean I would pay less.

You see what you are saying doesn't make any sense. Who are these people who are paying little tax and avoiding austerity? Can you explain what you are talking about because it doesn't appear to have any relationship to reality

Simple example somebody earning a 100k from their company they work for and own. How do they avoid paying tax?

RecordStraight · 20-05-2014 02:56PM

Just on a point of information:

Government spending INCREASED over the last couple of years. This was what the bailout money was for. THERE IS NO AUSTERITY HAPPENING HERE.

The government spend €51 billion in 2007. In 2011 - during the claimed 'austerity' - it spent €64 billion.

Thanks.

ryan101 · 20-05-2014 02:58PM

Ray Palmer wrote: »

So tradesmen should be a huge issue for you. They often avoid tax and get paid cash in hand.
I'll gladly pay the same tax as everybody else as it would mean I would pay less.

You see what you are saying doesn't make any sense. Who are these people who are paying little tax and avoiding austerity? Can you explain what you are talking about because it doesn't appear to have any relationship to reality

Well I don't know what reality you live in, but Ireland's wealthiest people have actually become even more wealthy during this austerity and recession than they ever were before. Check the Sunday times rich list. Can you explain to us what austerity they have endured compared to ordinary working people ?

Wishiwasa Littlebitaller · 20-05-2014 03:00PM

I don't understand what a tracker mortgage is.

bumper234 · 20-05-2014 03:01PM

ryan101 wrote: »

Well I don't know what reality you live in, but Ireland's wealthiest people have actually become even more wealthy during this austerity and recession than they ever were before. Check the Sunday times rich list. Can you explain to us what austerity they have endured compared to ordinary working people ?

Wanna tell that to Sean Quinn?

srsly78 · 20-05-2014 03:01PM

Ryan answer the question instead of avoiding... These rich businessmen you cite will have paid looooads of tax!

There is no getting away from it, you have to pay tax on everything, even if you have your own company. http://www.revenue.ie/en/tax/it/bik.html

About the only thing you might get away with is an expensable company mobile phone (with personal use being incidental).

Capital Gains and DIRT etc are a lot higher here than in other countries.

beardy_mcgrath · 20-05-2014 03:03PM

longhalloween wrote: »

Yeah, but they're still subject to capital gains tax when they sell those shares. It's one thing to be rich on paper, but another to have liquidity.

plus stamp duty on irish listed companies are by far the highest in europe , double the rate of the uk , their is no stamp duty on american listed companies

ryanair
kerry
paddy power

you pay 1% on each purchase to the state

Ray Palmer · 20-05-2014 03:03PM

ryan101 wrote: »

Well I don't know what reality you live in, but Ireland's wealthiest people have actually become even more wealthy during this austerity and recession than they ever were before. Check the Sunday times rich list. Can you explain to us what austerity they have endured compared to ordinary working people ?

Cool. What relationship has that got to your claims? I am also pretty sure lots of people have fallen of that list too.

Now explain how to pay less tax as you have concretely said it can be done.

You see I don't think you know and guess you have heard this somewhere and believe it without any facts.

ryan101 · 20-05-2014 03:05PM

bumper234 wrote: »

Wanna tell that to Sean Quinn?

The crook and scammer ? I'm talking about legit operators. Given their wealth has actually increased year on year as per the Sunday times rich list for Ireland, what austerity have the wealthy in Ireland undergone exactly ?

Idbatterim · 20-05-2014 03:07PM

All my income has a clear paper trail and invoiced. I am not looking to cheat the system.

I feel like I am being cheated by the system though. Ray I agree with all that you are saying, but say you could potentially take all your income out with 0% tax? would you do it? Do you give a toss about what those wasters in government would waste it on. Every man for him or herself IMO, that is the kind of society that has been created here. I read a finanical times article in Greece, how nobody wouldnt be on the take, what kind of an idiot wouldnt be when everyone else is at it? I really think its the same here...

beardy_mcgrath · 20-05-2014 03:08PM

ryan101 wrote: »

Capital gains is a lot cheaper than any PAYE

capital gains is 30% in this country

bumper234 · 20-05-2014 03:08PM

ryan101 wrote: »

The crook and scammer ? I'm talking about legit operators. Given their wealth has actually increased year on year as per the Sunday times rich list for Ireland, what austerity have the wealthy in Ireland undergone exactly ?

According to you they are all crooks and scammers what with evading all of these taxes and what not. :rolleyes:

ryan101 · 20-05-2014 03:09PM

bumper234 wrote: »

According to you they are all crooks and scammers what with evading all of these taxes and what not. :rolleyes:

Now you've been reduced to telling outright lies, find that post . . .

beardy_mcgrath · 20-05-2014 03:10PM

ryan101 wrote: »

Well I don't know what reality you live in, but Ireland's wealthiest people have actually become even more wealthy during this austerity and recession than they ever were before. Check the Sunday times rich list. Can you explain to us what austerity they have endured compared to ordinary working people ?

stocks collapsed in 2008 - early 2009 , many of the super rich saw their assets reduced by 40% within a year , however since then those ( with capital ) who bought stocks etc at 2009 lows , have seen gains of 125%

i started buying stocks in 2010 and im not super rich , anyone can buy stocks , the trick is timing

ryan101 · 20-05-2014 03:11PM

beardy_mcgrath wrote: »

stocks collapsed in 2008 - early 2009 , many of the super rich saw their assets reduced by 40% within a year , however since then those ( with capital ) who bought stocks etc at 2009 lows , have seen gains of 125%

Can you explain what Austerity measures they have endured ?

Idbatterim · 20-05-2014 03:11PM

Ireland's wealthiest people have actually become even more wealthy during this austerity and recession than they ever were before.

Some have, some have lost a lot or everything. The thing is when you are rich rich, you could lose half your wealth, but at that standard of living, what would it matter if you are worth 50,100,200,300 million etc?

ryan101 · 20-05-2014 03:12PM

Idbatterim wrote: »

Some have, some have lost a lot or everything. The thing is when you are rich rich, you could lose half your wealth, but at that standard of living, what would it matter if you are worth 50,100,200,300 million etc?

So can you explain what Austerity these people have endured regarding their standard of living ? Given that Austerity is supposed to be for everyone ?

longhalloween · 20-05-2014 03:14PM

ryan101 wrote: »

So can you explain what Austerity these people have endured regarding their standard of living ? Given that Austerity is supposed to be for everyone ?

What austerity would you like them to feel Ryan?

You want to freeze their assets because they legally made a profit on shares?

There's a thread on the Personal Finance forum about investing in BoI. You want to go over there and shame them for making a profit?

srsly78 · 20-05-2014 03:14PM

They got hit with increased taxes like everyone else. First there was the income levy, then they renamed it to USC. Also VAT was hiked. These people operate internationally anyway, much of their income is not even from Ireland.

Ray Palmer · 20-05-2014 03:16PM

ryan101 wrote: »

So can you explain what Austerity these people have endured regarding their standard of living ? Given that Austerity is supposed to be for everyone ?

I pay an extra €600 a month is that enough. Are you going to answer the magical tax question?

ryan101 · 20-05-2014 03:16PM

srsly78 wrote: »

They got hit with increased taxes like everyone else. First there was the income levy, then they renamed it to USC. Also VAT was hiked. These people operate internationally anyway, much of their income is not even from Ireland.

What increased taxes ?
They don't pay PAYE.

Idbatterim · 20-05-2014 03:18PM

So can you explain what Austerity these people have endured regarding their standard of living ? Given that Austerity is supposed to be for everyone ?

Ryan my response was pretty much an agreeing with you, I mean the austerity they have experienced will be higher taxes or reduced asset wealth etc. A lot of normal people are struggling with the basics and paying a mortgage etc, food, utility bills etc, you are of course right, if you are that rich, you could lose 50% and ask what difference it will make to your day to day living and the answer is probably none, because you are nowhere near close to struggling for the absolute basics / essentials...

ryan101 · 20-05-2014 03:18PM

Ray Palmer wrote: »

I pay an extra €600 a month is that enough.

Sounds about right if you are on the Sunday times rich list for Ireland.
Can you explain what austerity they have suffered exactly ?

Ray Palmer · 20-05-2014 03:19PM

ryan101 wrote: »

Sounds about right if you are on the Sunday times rich list for Ireland.
Can you explain what austerity they have suffered exactly ?

I'll explain it all once you explain your claim:rolleyes:

The Pro Austerity Crowd

Comments