Advertisement
Help Keep Boards Alive. Support us by going ad free today. See here: https://subscriptions.boards.ie/.
https://www.boards.ie/group/1878-subscribers-forum

Private Group for paid up members of Boards.ie. Join the club.
Hi all, please see this major site announcement: https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058427594/boards-ie-2026

Season 4 Episode 6 "The Laws of Gods and Men": *HAVENT* read the books MOD NOTE POST1

123468

Comments

  • #152
    Letyourselfgo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 768 ✭✭✭Letyourselfgo


    I don't think Tywin wants Tyrion dead so why would he pick someone capable of beating Tyrions representative (so that rules out the Mountain for me). I think it will be Bron against the guy from Kings guard who testified first at the trial as Jamie will put up some money on Tyrions part to pay Bron.


  • #153
    ziedth
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,081 ✭✭✭ziedth


    Letyourselfgo wrote: »
    I don't think Tywin wants Tyrion dead so why would he pick someone capable of beating Tyrions representative (so that rules out the Mountain for me). I think it will be Bron against the guy from Kings guard who testified first at the trial as Jamie will put up some money on Tyrions part to pay Bron.

    This is another reason I think he could pick the mountain. It's been mentioned a number of times how strong a warrior Oberyn is so I think Tywin will "kill two birds with with one stone" by giving Oberyn his shot at the mountain and to ensure Tyrion doesn't die.


  • #154
    BanksysGhost
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17 ✭BanksysGhost


    Should Tyrion's representative lose the trial by combat and he be found guilty, would it even necessarily mean he'd be executed? Could be still be exiled or kept in prison?

    After Tyrion's outburst Tywin can't be seen to be go easy on him. The people of King's Landing are already unhappy enough with the Lannisters. So he'll have to put out the best warrior, who is The Mountain. It won't be a problem giving him some time to get to King's Landing because Tyrion, in his first trial by combat, thought he would have time for Jaime to get to The Vale to defend him.


  • #155
    bren2001
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,985 ✭✭✭bren2001


    BanksysGhost wrote: »
    Should Tyrion's representative lose the trial by combat and he be found guilty, would it even necessarily mean he'd be executed? Could be still be exiled or kept in prison?

    After Tyrion's outburst Tywin can't be seen to be go easy on him. The people of King's Landing are already unhappy enough with the Lannisters. So he'll have to put out the best warrior, who is The Mountain. It won't be a problem giving him some time to get to King's Landing because Tyrion, in his first trial by combat, thought he would have time for Jaime to get to The Vale to defend him.

    I think it is fair to say if Tyrion loses he will be executed. There is no way he will be sent to the wall. If he wins, where does he go?


  • #156
    2ndcoming
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,605 ✭✭✭2ndcoming


    The previous deal is off, there's only two outcomes of a trial by combat, defeat meaning guilt and death or victory meaning innocence and freedom.

    That's not to say Tyrion would be free, in King's Landing at least, after insulting all the local nobles and wishing he could kill them all.


  • Advertisement
  • #157
    degrassinoel
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,772 ✭✭✭✭degrassinoel


    ziedth wrote: »
    This is another reason I think he could pick the mountain. It's been mentioned a number of times how strong a warrior Oberyn is so I think Tywin will "kill two birds with with one stone" by giving Oberyn his shot at the mountain and to ensure Tyrion doesn't die.

    was thinking exactly that too


  • #158
    Naydy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 189 ✭✭Naydy


    If Oberyn does end up fighting in this trial by combat and dies, I'm gonna be really sad. He's one of the most interesting characters this season.
    I would really like him to get his revenge on the Mountain, but I don't think he'd stand a chance against him one-on-one (I don't think anyone would beat the Mountain one-on-one).

    I know Tywin was willing to let Tyrion live, but only as an exile. I think that since the choice is now either killing him or letting him off scot-free, he'll go for the former. So from that point of view, it would make sense for Tywin to pick the Mountain. The only reason I can see Oberyn volunteering is if he thinks Tywin is going to try wriggling out of giving him the Mountain. And since he clearly doesn't trust any of the Lannisters, I suppose that's a good possibility.

    I bet we won't find out straight away anyhow, they'll drag it out a few more episodes :P


  • #159
    bren2001
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,985 ✭✭✭bren2001


    Naydy wrote: »
    If Oberyn does end up fighting in this trial by combat and dies, I'm gonna be really sad. He's one of the most interesting characters this season.
    I would really like him to get his revenge on the Mountain, but I don't think he'd stand a chance against him one-on-one (I don't think anyone would beat the Mountain one-on-one).

    I know Tywin was willing to let Tyrion live, but only as an exile. I think that since the choice is now either killing him or letting him off scot-free, he'll go for the former. So from that point of view, it would make sense for Tywin to pick the Mountain. The only reason I can see Oberyn volunteering is if he thinks Tywin is going to try wriggling out of giving him the Mountain. And since he clearly doesn't trust any of the Lannisters, I suppose that's a good possibility.

    I bet we won't find out straight away anyhow, they'll drag it out a few more episodes :P

    I expect the ending of episode 7 to be whoever Tywin names as champion for the crown. End of episode 8 to be the fight itself with one of them dying. It leads to a huge episode 9 of Tyrion either being executed/somehow escaping or having won the dual having to get as far away from KL as possible.


  • #160
    Son0vagun
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,297 ✭✭✭Son0vagun


    As usual the Non Book readers thread is far more interesting then the book readers thread! Too much complaining over there about changes to the book!


  • #161
    Naydy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 189 ✭✭Naydy


    bren2001 wrote: »
    I expect the ending of episode 7 to be whoever Tywin names as champion for the crown. End of episode 8 to be the fight itself with one of them dying. It leads to a huge episode 9 of Tyrion either being executed/somehow escaping or having won the dual having to get as far away from KL as possible.

    I don't think Tyrion will actually die. He'll win the duel or escape. But I think you're right, that he'll have to leave KL either way, cause Cersei won't let it rest.

    I think Varys might help him behind the scenes. I know he went against him in the trial, but he always keeps up appearances in public. We know he tried to help Ned Stark by convincing him to plead guilty to Joffrey.


  • Advertisement
  • #162
    snausages
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,225 ✭✭✭snausages


    Son0vagun wrote: »
    As usual the Non Book readers thread is far more interesting then the book readers thread! Too much complaining over there about changes to the book!
    What have they changed? Spoiler tag it.


  • #163
    DDC1990
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,397 ✭✭✭✭DDC1990


    snausages wrote: »
    What have they changed? Spoiler tag it.
    Or don't post it at all.

    Thank you.


  • #164
    K_user
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,041 ✭✭✭K_user


    Son0vagun wrote: »
    As usual the Non Book readers thread is far more interesting then the book readers thread! Too much complaining over there about changes to the book!
    That sounds about right.

    There are many that would rather spoil the whole experience of having a successful fantasy show on TV, then just enjoy it.

    I'll never understand the nit-picking.


  • #165
    snausages
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,225 ✭✭✭snausages


    DDC1990 wrote: »
    Or don't post it at all.

    Thank you.
    Or you could just not read the spoiler. I'd rather not wade into the book thread and find future spoilers, I'm just curious about what current events have been changed.


  • #166
    K_user
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,041 ✭✭✭K_user


    Naydy wrote: »
    If Oberyn does end up fighting in this trial by combat and dies, I'm gonna be really sad. He's one of the most interesting characters this season.
    I would really like him to get his revenge on the Mountain, but I don't think he'd stand a chance against him one-on-one (I don't think anyone would beat the Mountain one-on-one).

    I know Tywin was willing to let Tyrion live, but only as an exile. I think that since the choice is now either killing him or letting him off scot-free, he'll go for the former. So from that point of view, it would make sense for Tywin to pick the Mountain. The only reason I can see Oberyn volunteering is if he thinks Tywin is going to try wriggling out of giving him the Mountain. And since he clearly doesn't trust any of the Lannisters, I suppose that's a good possibility.

    I bet we won't find out straight away anyhow, they'll drag it out a few more episodes :P
    The mountain is a brute. We saw his "skills" in season 1 against Loras.

    Oberyn looks to be more like Jamie, strong, fit, intelligent and light on his feet. His introduction by Tyrion tells us that he's an accomplished fighter. I think that he would have the edge, if he can avoid any bone crushing blows from the mountain.

    If the mountain is nominated then I can't see Oberyn resisting the chance. Its all above board and very public. And I can't see the mountain saying no.


    Oberyn has been introduced to the story for a reason. His back story is interesting, as he is instantly a problem for the Lannisters. If he wasn't involved in the poisoning of Joff, which Little Finger has taken credit for, then he has to be there for a revenge plot line.

    I can't see him taking on Jamie and there is no way that Tywin will partake - although I'd love to see that fight. And most of the Kings Guard are fairly faceless.

    Apart from Brienne, the only other "known" noble swordsman is Loras, and he has nothing to personally gain from the fight. Bronn is the obvious other choice, but that has been done.


  • #167
    Liamalone
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,169 ✭✭✭Liamalone


    Son0vagun wrote: »
    As usual the Non Book readers thread is far more interesting then the book readers thread! Too much complaining over there about changes to the book!

    I enjoy the book readers in here posting as non book readers, pointing no elbows lol







    *points elbow*


  • #168
    snausages
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,225 ✭✭✭snausages


    Grimebox wrote: »
    :eek:

    I guess I just don't really like the sadist stuff, kind of ties into the fooking legend guy in one of the previous eps, it's not easy viewing and some of it (not all) is unnecessary.

    I get the sense that a lot of the torture scenes in season 3 were put in to give Alfie Allen something to do.


  • #169
    Son0vagun
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,297 ✭✭✭Son0vagun


    snausages wrote: »
    What have they changed? Spoiler tag it.

    Nah not a hope.


  • #170
    K_user
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,041 ✭✭✭K_user


    snausages wrote: »
    I get the sense that a lot of the torture scenes in season 3 were put in to give Alfie Allen something to do.
    Giving us an idea as to what Alfie's character went through and how messed up his torturer was, makes it easier to believe how broken he is now.

    Had they just skipped season 3 and reintroduced him in season 4, it just wouldn't feel right.

    It would be like leaving Bran's story half way through season 1 and then have him show up in season 4, over the wall, all puppet master with Hordor.


  • #171
    Grimebox
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,997 ✭✭✭Grimebox


    snausages wrote: »
    I guess I just don't really like the sadist stuff, kind of ties into the fooking legend guy in one of the previous eps, it's not easy viewing and some of it (not all) is unnecessary.

    I get the sense that a lot of the torture scenes in season 3 were put in to give Alfie Allen something to do.

    I'm not sure how to respond to this. I don't think this show is for you. Anything could be interpreted as unnecessary.


  • Advertisement
  • #172
    snausages
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,225 ✭✭✭snausages


    Well that's different though, you're talking about a crazy bastard offspring of a familiy who's emblem is a man being flayed breaking down a guy into a pathetic Smeagol-like creature versus a guy who's got mysterious unknown powers.

    Anyway, I don't want to argue! Just saying that I have a different opinion.
    Grimebox wrote: »
    I'm not sure how to respond to this. I don't think this show is for you. Anything could be interpreted as unnecessary.

    Well yeah, but it's a whole season's worth of torture. It got tedious after a while.


  • #173
    celica00
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 880 ✭✭✭celica00


    snausages wrote: »
    What have they changed? Spoiler tag it.

    that could actually fill a whole book haha
    enough was changed due the seaons(s).
    I like to read here too btw haha


  • #174
    snausages
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,225 ✭✭✭snausages


    Just as an aside to the Ramsay Snow stuff, I'm not the only Boardsie who found that plot thread a little wearying by the end of season 3: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=85013614

    (Not trying to start an 'I'm right and you're wrong' debate, but I hate being made to feel the contrarian sometimes.)


  • #175
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 7,639 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Hi folks, I'm a book reader. If you don't mind, I might post in the "haven't read the books thread" as I feel this is the truest place to talk about the TV show without having to engage in "why is X different from the books/what does this mean for future unreleased books?". For my part I promise not to try to slyly drop future plot points.

    I thought that was the best episode of Thrones so far, every scene was perfection for me, maybe except the Theon rescue attempt. In fairness though, from Yara's point of view, her brother is now "dead" and hanging around any longer would have surely resulted in death/flaying for her and her Ironborn. I think rather than fúcked up sex games, the blood on Ramsey was from some Ironborn he might have encountered on his way to the dog kennels where Yara was. But with Ramsey Snow, who knows!

    Comment from this thread or the book thread which gave me a good belly laugh - Yara and the Ironborn running away was like something from Monty Python :D

    Poor Tyrion, that outburst was justified. I feel the acting from 'Shae' let down the emotional value of the scene slightly but otherwise it was top notch stuff. To even be an extra in that scene would have been amazing.

    I had no idea what to expect when we saw that little boy sitting out in the fields on his own, when Drogon appeared in front of him my heart skipped a beat. Have to say that all of the CGI work in the show is quality, the shot of Bravos as Stannis' ships passed under the Titan was truly epic.

    Hopefully this show gets to see a definite conclusion. HBO have fúcked me before (ahem...Deadwood!) but that show had nowhere near the viewers/reputation at the time that GoT has now.


  • #176
    bren2001
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,985 ✭✭✭bren2001


    snausages wrote: »
    Just as an aside to the Ramsay Snow stuff, I'm not the only Boardsie who found that plot thread a little wearying by the end of season 3: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=85013614

    (Not trying to start an 'I'm right and you're wrong' debate, but I hate being made to feel the contrarian sometimes.)

    Its difficult to say at this stage was it pointless. If Ramsay Snow or Theon turn out to be major characters. Then the amount of time spent on them in season 3 was necessary. There was important character development there. We saw how sadistic Ramsay is and equally how Theon was broken.

    On the other hand, if they continue to be minor (ish) characters, then the amount of time spent on it is ludicrous.


  • #177
    snausages
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,225 ✭✭✭snausages


    bren2001 wrote: »
    Its difficult to say at this stage was it pointless. If Ramsay Snow or Theon turn out to be major characters. Then the amount of time spent on them in season 3 was necessary. There was important character development there. We saw how sadistic Ramsay is and equally how Theon was broken.

    On the other hand, if they continue to be minor (ish) characters, then the amount of time spent on it is ludicrous.
    Even if they're major characters, I'd say that the scene where Ramsay sets a dog on that woman at the start of this season and the bit with 'Reek' meekly following and calling him master would have told us a lot of both Ramsay's character and just how much Theon's position had changed since the season 2 finale. Sometimes a bit of mystery is great, just tell the audience enough to fill in the blanks themselves.


  • #178
    bren2001
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,985 ✭✭✭bren2001


    snausages wrote: »
    Even if they're major characters, I'd say that the scene where Ramsay sets a dog on that woman at the start of this season and the bit with 'Reek' meekly following and calling him master would have told us a lot of both Ramsay's character and just how much Theon's position had changed since the season 2 finale. Sometimes a bit of mystery is great, just tell the audience enough to fill in the blanks themselves.

    One of the reasons I watch the show and started to read the books was due to the fantastic characters it has. Which, imo, is the best thing any TV show can have. To get it, time has to be invested in each of them. Skipping over the story and allowing the viewer to fill in the blanks would not cover it in this case for me. It would have felt very cheap to just have Theon jump back into the show. I think they could have cut it down to 3-4 scenes instead of the ridiculous amount they had. At least now we have seen the extent to which he has been tortured and how much Ramsay owns him. If in a while Theon plays a big part and then gives up everything he has to Ramsay, it will make sense. Without those scenes, I do not think it would feel right and we would question Theons actions.


  • #179
    snausages
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,225 ✭✭✭snausages


    But by investing less time into the torture arc they'd have more space to cover more interesting and engaging plots. And it's not really 'skipping' it over either. It would be skipping things if they got rid of Bran and brought him back with supernatural powers, but it's easy enough to deduce that Theon went through some pretty heavy stuff if you see how he is now.

    God, I don't know, I'd just love more Tywin scenes. He's amazing. The ruler Westeros deserves


  • #180
    Grimebox
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,997 ✭✭✭Grimebox


    stankratz wrote: »
    I think rather than fúcked up sex games, the blood on Ramsey was from some Ironborn he might have encountered on his way to the dog kennels where Yara was. But with Ramsey Snow, who knows!

    I definitely think it was sadistic sex games. There were too many shallow wounds on him for it to happen in a fight. It would take far too many glancing swipes to get the same effect in a fight. She was beginning to choke him at the end of the sex scene before we see him again, which suggests he likes it rough. It fits perfectly with his character. Not that this little detail matters too much.


  • Advertisement
  • #181
    GerB40
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,047 ✭✭✭GerB40


    snausages wrote: »
    I guess I just don't really like the sadist stuff, kind of ties into the fooking legend guy in one of the previous eps, it's not easy viewing and some of it (not all) is unnecessary.

    I get the sense that a lot of the torture scenes in season 3 were put in to give Alfie Allen something to do.

    The torture scenes were put in to show Theons transformation into Reek. We now know that Theon is essentially dead and, by showing the torture last season, we also know why.


Advertisement
Advertisement