Season 4 Episode 6 "The Laws of Gods and Men": *HAVENT* read the books MOD NOTE POST1

celica00

snausages wrote: »

But by investing less time into the torture arc they'd have more space to cover more interesting and engaging plots. And it's not really 'skipping' it over either. It would be skipping things if they got rid of Bran and brought him back with supernatural powers, but it's easy enough to deduce that Theon went through some pretty heavy stuff if you see how he is now.

God, I don't know, I'd just love more Tywin scenes. He's amazing. The ruler Westeros deserves

I think those torturing scenes were important, because it gives a good feeling of WHY he turns that way and calls himself reek now etc.
many people can (thank god) not imaing how the former prince suddenly becomes the Reek, I think that was a good idea

Grimebox

Grimebox wrote: »

I definitely think it was sadistic sex games. There were too many shallow wounds on him for it to happen in a fight. It would take far too many glancing swipes to get the same effect in a fight. She was beginning to choke him at the end of the sex scene before we see him again, which suggests he likes it rough. It fits perfectly with his character. Not that this little detail matters too much.

It totally does, what a fúcked up man! For me, he is the character I would least like to encounter out of all my favourite shows i.e. Breaking Bad, The Shield, Sopranos, Deadwood.

Well maybe him and the Mountain, but at least with the Mountain death would be (relatively) quick

chasmcb

One thing I find a bit implausible about the whole arrest and trial of Tyrion is how willingly Tywin seems to go along with it. He's always been very savvy and must surely know that Cercei's accusation against Tyrion is driven by blind, vengeful rage. As the Lannister patriarch he looks very unfazed about the prospect of his son being condemned in a show trial (and he did seem to be acquiring a grudging respect for Tyrion's ability and intelligence over the course of the last season or two). Does he actually think Tyrion bumped off Joffrey? Or Sansa, the woosiest, weepiest offshoot of the Stark clan? Surely not?

Penn

chasmcb wrote: »

One thing I find a bit implausible about the whole arrest and trial of Tyrion is how willingly Tywin seems to go along with it. He's always been very savvy and must surely know that Cercei's accusation against Tyrion is driven by blind, vengeful rage. As the Lannister patriarch he looks very unfazed about the prospect of his son being condemned in a show trial (and he did seem to be acquiring a grudging respect for Tyrion's ability and intelligence over the course of the last season or two). Does he actually think Tyrion bumped off Joffrey? Or Sansa, the woosiest, weepiest offshoot of the Stark clan? Surely not?

Tyrion is still an embarrassment to him, and he still holds resentment for his wife dying in childbirth. Plus, not being able to find Joffrey's killer makes them look weak. They need someone to take the fall for Joffrey's death. Add to that how Jamie was willing to quit the Kingsguard and be Lord of Casterly Rock so Tywin's bloodline would live on (which Jamie wouldn't have done otherwise), it made sense for Tywin to let Tyrion be charged with it.

Don't get me wrong, I doubt it was Tywin's idea. Cersei (being Queen Regent) accused him and called for the trial. I just think Tywin saw an opportunity to take advantage. His conversation with Jamie in this episode was very telling.

K_user

stankratz wrote: »

Hi folks, I'm a book reader. If you don't mind, I might post in the "haven't read the books thread" as I feel this is the truest place to talk about the TV show without having to engage in "why is X different from the books/what does this mean for future unreleased books?". For my part I promise not to try to slyly drop future plot points.

Well said. This thread is all about the show, not the books.

You can argue the plot lines of the books until you are blue in the face. But the TV show should be a stand alone story. It should be enjoyed for what it is, not for what it hasn't included.

K_user

snausages wrote: »

Well that's different though, you're talking about a crazy bastard offspring of a familiy who's emblem is a man being flayed breaking down a guy into a pathetic Smeagol-like creature versus a guy who's got mysterious unknown powers.

But both are about character development. The story of what happens to a person is the story.

We got to learn several things from the torture scenes. We saw Theon becoming Reek, which I'm sure is a major plot point. We were introduced to a frightening new character, Ramsay, who is crazier than Joffrey. And we got more of a feeling for Roose, the man responsible for the Red Wedding.

All great stuff.

snausages wrote: »

Anyway, I don't want to argue! Just saying that I have a different opinion.

Debate, it keeps a chat forum alive!

Degag

Lads I just can't see it being Bronn unless it's against Meryn Trant or someone like that.

Bronn is not going to willingly take on The Mountain for love nor money!

Another poster did raise a good point though: Tywin could nominate someone like Trant because as much as he hates Tyrion, he still doesn't want him dead.

TimeToShine

Degag wrote: »

Lads I just can't see it being Bronn unless it's against Meryn Trant or someone like that.

Bronn is not going to willingly take on The Mountain for love nor money!

Another poster did raise a good point though: Tywin could nominate someone like Trant because as much as he hates Tyrion, he still doesn't want him dead.

Is it Cersei or Tywin who gets to nominate who represents the crown? I realize Tywin is in charge but Cersei is the one pressing charges so I'm not too sure.

seligehgit

chasmcb wrote: »

One thing I find a bit implausible about the whole arrest and trial of Tyrion is how willingly Tywin seems to go along with it. He's always been very savvy and must surely know that Cercei's accusation against Tyrion is driven by blind, vengeful rage. As the Lannister patriarch he looks very unfazed about the prospect of his son being condemned in a show trial (and he did seem to be acquiring a grudging respect for Tyrion's ability and intelligence over the course of the last season or two). Does he actually think Tyrion bumped off Joffrey? Or Sansa, the woosiest, weepiest offshoot of the Stark clan? Surely not?

Tywin has never really forgiven Tyrion whom he holds responsible for his wife's death when Tyrion was born.

Degag

TimeToShine wrote: »

Is it Cersei or Tywin who gets to nominate who represents the crown? I realize Tywin is in charge but Cersei is the one pressing charges so I'm not too sure.

I don't know but I imagine its Tywin.

ceadaoin.

Does anyone else think that Tywin agreed to Jamie's proposal to leave the kings guard in return for Tyrions life very quickly? Almost like he anticipated him doing something like that. Even Jamie looked surprised it was so easy. Maybe that was his plan all along, he is very concerned with continuing the Lannister name.

Also, I read yesterday that Alfie Allen's audition for GoT was as Reek. I found that interesting. He had to wait a while to play that part anyway!

kryogen

chasmcb wrote: »

One thing I find a bit implausible about the whole arrest and trial of Tyrion is how willingly Tywin seems to go along with it. He's always been very savvy and must surely know that Cercei's accusation against Tyrion is driven by blind, vengeful rage. As the Lannister patriarch he looks very unfazed about the prospect of his son being condemned in a show trial (and he did seem to be acquiring a grudging respect for Tyrion's ability and intelligence over the course of the last season or two). Does he actually think Tyrion bumped off Joffrey? Or Sansa, the woosiest, weepiest offshoot of the Stark clan? Surely not?

I think its because he is in control of the situation, he won't let him die, of that I am sure. Not to say Tyrion wouldn't kill him though if he got the chance but Tywin is using him as leverage over Jaime it seems.

He can have Tyrion banished/exiled if found guilty, or locked in the dungeon or something, but I have no weight in the idea that he would condemn him to death. He is ok right now as he controls the situation

seligehgit

Grimebox wrote: »

I definitely think it was sadistic sex games. There were too many shallow wounds on him for it to happen in a fight. It would take far too many glancing swipes to get the same effect in a fight. She was beginning to choke him at the end of the sex scene before we see him again, which suggests he likes it rough. It fits perfectly with his character. Not that this little detail matters too much.

The wounds definitely seemed to be as a result of his sexual encounter with that girl,seemed to be implied.

Degag

ceadaoin. wrote: »

Does anyone else think that Tywin agreed to Jamie's proposal to leave the kings guard in return for Tyrions life very quickly? Almost like he anticipated him doing something like that. Even Jamie looked surprised it was so easy. Maybe that was his plan all along, he is very concerned with continuing the Lannister name.

Also, I read yesterday that Alfie Allen's audition for GoT was as Reek. I found that interesting. He had to wait a while to play that part anyway!

I think it was definitely part of his plan but at the same time I doubt he has much intention of having Tyrion killed.

Syferus

Degag wrote: »

I think it was definitely part of his plan but at the same time I doubt he has much intention of having Tyrion killed.

Imagine if Jaime represented Tyrion, lost and meant Tyrion was condemned to death. Tywin would be up the river without a paddle in that case.

EyeSight

I think Tywin know the Tyrells had something to do with the kings poisoning. But he didn't care about Jeoffery and he needs the Tyrell alliance.
I can see either Tyrion or Jamie dying because of this.

Also I think Ramsay snows torture scenes were needed last season. Firstly, it was a good mystery trying to figure out who he was and why he was doing this. Also if we had not seen all that, we wouldn't believe that Theon would be the way he is now - and that's what we would complain about. I don't think I would perceive Ramsay as being that evil otherwise

iamanengine

Don't think it needs to be said anymore in this thread but, Tyrion = Awesome. Took me ages to get around to watching it, so worth it in the end.

Was great to see Mycroft in there doing his bit for the Iron Bank!!


So, seems we're all assuming that Tyrion does live, so, what is he gunna do after the trial? He can hardly hang around Kings Landing, nor does he want to it would seem, although maybe he will, try an exact some revenge perchance? But doubtful.

EyeSight

iamanengine wrote: »

Don't think it needs to be said anymore in this thread but, Tyrion = Awesome. Took me ages to get around to watching it, so worth it in the end.

Was great to see Mycroft in there doing his bit for the Iron Bank!!


So, seems we're all assuming that Tyrion does live, so, what is he gunna do after the trial? He can hardly hang around Kings Landing, nor does he want to it would seem, although maybe he will, try an exact some revenge perchance? But doubtful.

He might go off in search of Sansa - God i hate trying to spell GOT names

jebidiah

seligehgit wrote: »

The wounds definitely seemed to be as a result of his sexual encounter with that girl,seemed to be implied.

I really don't think so. They don't look like cuts to me.

We saw him fight with a knife and a short weapon, an axe or mace? He fights up close, he was bare chested, no doubt he would get splashes of blood on his body from slashing and smashing his opponent.

kryogen

EyeSight wrote: »

He might go off in search of Sansa - God i hate trying to spell GOT names

He might kill everyone! Start with Cersei, then move on to his dad

Though I suspect with the constant musings and sort of foreshadowing about Tywins legacy and what will happen to the Lannisters when he is dead, and the repeated references to his age and that he wont be around much longer, there is a much bigger chance it will be him that gets it rather then the young (ish) Queen Mum

super_furry

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jvHK6blDJaQ

Best thing I've seen all week.

K_user

iamanengine wrote: »

Don't think it needs to be said anymore in this thread but, Tyrion = Awesome. Took me ages to get around to watching it, so worth it in the end.

Tyrion is great. But Tywin owns every scene that he is in.

The sad thing is that Tyrion could be every bit the man his father is, but for being born short. His brain is as sharp and he has steal in his soul. You could well imagine him leading the Lannister family to great success.

Its just unfortunate that people will only ever see him as "the imp".

celica00

I have to say that I found ALL actors in that episode simply brilliant.

iamanengine

K_user wrote: »

Tyrion is great. But Tywin owns every scene that he is in.

The sad thing is that Tyrion could be every bit the man his father is, but for being born short. His brain is as sharp and he has steal in his soul. You could well imagine him leading the Lannister family to great success.

Its just unfortunate that people will only ever see him as "the imp".

Ironic isn't it, the son that could have best lived up to Tywins legacy would have been Tyrion, the one child of his that he basically despises!

Syferus

K_user wrote: »

Tyrion is great. But Tywin owns every scene that he is in.

The sad thing is that Tyrion could be every bit the man his father is, but for being born short. His brain is as sharp and he has steal in his soul. You could well imagine him leading the Lannister family to great success.

Its just unfortunate that people will only ever see him as "the imp".

Dinklage totally over-shadowed Dance this week. And he does it regularly.

Tyrion is too decent a person to be as ruthless as Tywin.

K_user

Syferus wrote: »

Tyrion is too decent a person to be as ruthless as Tywin.

Really? The drunk and whore chaser?

Tyrion is a victim of circumstance. He is as cocky and self assured as his siblings. He comes from a very rich family. Had he been born "normal", along with his quick wits and self determination, he would have grown into a completely different character. Its his view on the world, and how the world views him, that has shaped him.

He is more "decent" simply because of his empathy, which might not have been as strong if he'd been the same size as his brother.

Lets not forget that Tyrion has threatened to kill, just to prove a point. He happily played mind games with the small council while he was the hand. He burned Stannis's army while they were still in their ships. And he quickly understood why his father arranged the Red Wedding. Once he was given an out at the trial, rather than accepting it, he fought back. The malice was right there in his speech. Justified or not.

He can be just as ruthless as his father, he just knows his limitations.

kryogen

He would have been a perfect successor

SureYWouldntYa

I'm just wondering is there any chance Jaime would represent the crown and Bronn represent Tyrion, but Jaime yields at the start of the fight, allowing Tyrion to live ?

EyeSight

I have not read the books, so this is in no way a spoiler.
But did they explain the Hounds disfigurement?
I know Arya saw how he was scared of fire last season. I can't remember if i imagined this or if a scene actually exists but did they say that the Mountain burnt him for fun when they were kids? That's why they hate each other?

TimeToShine

SureYWouldntYa wrote: »

I'm just wondering is there any chance Jaime would represent the crown and Bronn represent Tyrion, but Jaime yields at the start of the fight, allowing Tyrion to live ?

Can't yield in a trial by combat. Especially when the charge in murder.

edit: I have been proven wrong!